Your article mentions that the LRT cars use Freon which will be illegal next year.  Does this mean they will have no AC going forward?

 

If nothing changes, yes. But they will have to do more than just deal with the use of Freon. No one makes parts for the old air conditioners that are on GCRTA's trains. And then there's that pesky tiny drain on the AC units. There's a drain pan above the doors so if you're sitting next to the doors or standing below the doors and the train moves abruptly (almost a guarantee that it will), then at best you will get dripped on. At least it's only water.

 

Is there a cost estimate as to how much it would be to fix the AC units? Seems like a futile endeavor to put capital into the cars at this point. Too bad the windows don't open...

No idea.

A comment from the Reddit thread on this topic by /u/dcd00d:

 

"I used to work for RTA. This analysis is bullshit.

The problem is Joe Calabrese. He has been a disaster for this agency, yet because Greater Clevelanders refuse to engage their civic leaders, he has been allowed to become the longest serving GM in RTA history.

His tenure has seen the closure of of several bus garages along with the gross mismanagement of the rail division. Internally and privately he has stated repeatedly that he has no interest in bringing the rail system in to a state of good repair. His crown jewel is the Euclid Corridor. He believes the future of transit in Cleveland rests solely on BRT (Bus Rapid Transit). He has even floated the idea of converting the Red Line in to a protected busway.

The fact that he has allowed the rail fleet to age this long without even considering replacements is not just irresponsible but constitutes borderline dereliction of duty. Even if RTA began planning for replacement railcars right this moment, it would be, at minimum, a decade before new cars hit the property. The existing cars are just not going to make it - that's where this article is factually correct.

The midlife overhauls that RTA performed on the cars amounts to not much more than lipstick on a pig. When a railcar reaches midlife, it's supposed to receive not just the cosmetic upgrades, but more importantly, functional upgrades. The propulsion and friction braking systems absolutely must be retrofit with the latest technology. The ATP and door systems must be evaluated for continued parts availability and upgraded as necessary. RTA did none of this. They took the cars apart, repainted everything, and put it back together. That is not what the industry classifies as a mid-life overhaul. Had they done this the correct way, the cars would have been prepared for another 25-30 years of service life.

Now we're left with a parts problem. It's not that the manufacturers won't make the parts. They will, just at a massive premium. RTA doesn't have the fleet size to justify the expense of one-off runs of these needed parts. So they're stuck cannibalizing things. But that only goes so far. I again must reiterate that under Calabrese's leadership, the RTA failed to consider this when letting the contract for the midlife overhauls.

Being the GM of a transit authority doesn't mean just overseeing the day-to-day operations. It also means being a political leader. Calabrese should have spent the last 10 years lobbying local leaders to put together the needed matching funds for a railcar replacement program. Instead he chose to sit on his hands and apparently hope that someone would just throw millions of dollars at him for new cars. That's not how politics works."

^Don't know who this is, but he/she seemingly has a command of the technology and terminology.  The comments are disturbing.

BTW, the airport is an important ridership anchor but not so much for the flying public. Few of the airport station's riders are using it to get on/off a plane. Instead, most of its 1,000 or so daily boardings are by people who work at the airport, mostly in retail.

 

Agreed... but I take the red line for my monthly trip, so it was definitely something I was curious about.  :-)

 

A comment from the Reddit thread on this topic by /u/dcd00d:

 

"I used to work for RTA. This analysis is bullsh!t.

 

I don't know who this person is, either. What I think is BS is this person's claim that Joe Calabrese has no interest in bringing the rail system to a state of good repair. If that were true, then GCRTA wouldn't have made at least $200 million and perhaps as much as $300 million in capital improvements to the rail system since 2000 when he arrived at GCRTA. I have heard many comments from people who currently work or previously worked at GCRTA offices and Central Rail about things Joe has said or done -- including replacing a rail line with a BRT.

 

Yes, Joe has become a strong advocate for BRT, including making claims about that it aren't quite accurate (ie: that the HealthLine actually saves GCRTA money compared to the buses that ran before). Think about that -- all of the infrastructure added for the HealthLine that has to be maintained by GCRTA cannot cost less per rider than the basic roadway (paid for by others) that came before. Sure, HealthLine ridership is far higher than the #6 Euclid which preceded it. Joe tends to use as his baseline of information the year or two before construction began on the HealthLine. But what he doesn't say is that ridership on the buses in the Euclid Corridor in the 1980s was 54,000 each weekday (vs 16,000 each weekday for the HealthLine). And not only did the HealthLine replace the #6 bus, but it also replaced the Public Square-University Circle portions of the #7, #9 and #32. Some of those riders now transfer to the Red Line or HealthLine where they can be counted as riders for those lines too as an unlinked trip. The Red Line also has buses feeding into it, buses that used to run all the way downtown. And the Red Line ridership is higher now than at any time since the late 1980s. That's a claim the HealthLine can't achieve.

 

I'm not surprised Joe has considered replacing rail lines with BRT. Guess what? I've also looked at what would be involved to replace the Blue and/or Green lines with a BRT. Doesn't mean I favor it. There's a huge price to do so -- assuming the required public input would even be favorable. The FTA requires public input on rail line and station closures, neither of which the FTA takes lightly. Nor would GOP Congressman David Joyce whose major campaign contributor is the Laurello Family that owns Delta Railroad Construction (and great vineyards in Lake County!) and which gets many GCRTA rail system contracts. Whatever notions Joe might have had about closing a rail line probably ended when GCRTA proposed closing the East 79th Red Line station as well as the East 34th Blue/Green/Red line station. The public outcry from shutting those little-used stations surprised even me.

 

There's plenty of blame to go around. Ironically, the general manager on whose watch the mid-life overhauls of both rail fleets should have occurred was pro-rail Ron Tober. A mid-life overhaul should have been done when both fleets were 15 years old. For the light-rail Breda cars, they should have been overhauled in 1995 or 96. I remember when the six Breda cars were refurbished in the Trains of Fame design motif (those are the trains with the faces of famous Clevelanders on them) as part of the Waterfront Line opening and the city's Bicentennial. Many of us thought this was the start of GCRTA giving the light-rail cars their mid-life overhaul. It was not. Tober left in 2000 when the heavy-rail Tokyu cars should have been heading into the shops for their rebuilds, with the capital budget programming and funding procurement conducted four years before in the mid-1990s. It was not done. Instead, both fleet rebuilds were done on Calabrese's watch, admittedly done less than thoroughly as they should (ie: the Breda cars).

 

So yes, there's lots of blame to go around. But blame doesn't equal a solution. So let's find a financial and organizational solution to this and broader issues affecting Northeast Ohio transit.

Being the GM of a transit authority doesn't mean just overseeing the day-to-day operations. It also means being a political leader. Calabrese should have spent the last 10 years lobbying local leaders to put together the needed matching funds for a railcar replacement program. Instead he chose to sit on his hands and apparently hope that someone would just throw millions of dollars at him for new cars. That's not how politics works."

 

To this extent, I fully agree.  Solving this problem starts with having a transit leader who is not against rail.  For us to be hearing all this now from KJP (great work KJP) strongly indicates that Calabrese is not fit for the job.  It is clear that this alarm needed to ring years ago.  It did not.  That responsibility falls on Calabrese.  It is clear now that Calabrese should have made saving our rail system the focus of his tenure.  He has not.  Instead he's tried to force us down a different path.  The fact that some maintenance has occurred carries little weight if the entire system is doomed in the short term.  Again, the issue is Calabrese failing to raise the fiscal alarm and fight for our rail system years ago.

Question for KJP:  What did RTA receive in 2008 Stimulus Funds?

 

I still feel that our reps camp up short in that cash grab.  I remember reading once that LaTourette received more in funding for his district than Dennis Kuchinich, who was probably too busy running his campaign for president.  Not sure if that's true....

Question for KJP:  What did RTA receive in 2008 Stimulus Funds?

 

I still feel that our reps camp up short in that cash grab.  I remember reading once that LaTourette received more in funding for his district than Dennis Kuchinich, who was probably too busy running his campaign for president.  Not sure if that's true....

 

RTA has been allocated a total of $45.75 million in ARRA funding from two sources,

$34.57 million in Section 5307 Urban and $11.18 million in Section 5309 Rail Modernization

grants. With these funds we were able to close the funding gap for eight projects that were

partially funded with existing grants and to fully fund nine additional capital projects that were

totally unfunded. We have also dedicated 10 percent of the Urban Grant to operating assistance

preserving jobs at RTA.

READ MORE (INCLUDING A PROJECT LIST) AT: http://www.apta.com/gap/testimony/2009/Documents/091210_HouseTestimony.pdf

 

FYI...  GCRTA's Citizens Advisory Board meeting was this morning. Friends who were there said Joe Calabrese addressed our blog posting and said that there is concern but believes a rail shutdown is avoidable. No specific plan was mentioned though.

Is it just that the red/blue lines are not travelled enough, therefore not generating enough revenue?  Is it that we are not receiving the funding that other transit agencies receive?  My guess is it's a combination of both.  I'm sure that we can fix both, however, how do we increase ridership?  Is increased ridership simply a function of commuters unwillingness to drive on congested roads, and therefore a quicker way to arrive at your destination? 

Is it just that the red/blue lines are not travelled enough, therefore not generating enough revenue?  Is it that we are not receiving the funding that other transit agencies receive?  My guess is it's a combination of both.  I'm sure that we can fix both, however, how do we increase ridership?  Is increased ridership simply a function of commuters unwillingness to drive on congested roads, and therefore a quicker way to arrive at your destination? 

 

Ridership on the Blue/Green lines (unlike the Red Line) has been hurt by the loss of downtown jobs and shopping. The Red Line hasn't been hurt because it also serves University Circle, Ohio City and other neighborhoods that have seen a net gain in ridership generators. Ridership on the Blue Line should increase once each new phase of the Van Aken District at Warrensville opens. But the Green Line is a real dilemma. Other than its big parking lot at Green Road, it has no ridership "anchor" to provide a strong, all-day ridership base. In the past 20 years, downtown is no longer the primary Cleveland destination for east-side commuters. University Circle has since eclipsed it. Yet there are no rail lines from eastern suburbs to UC while two go downtown. Either the Blue or Green line needs to be routed from Shaker Square to UC. And development along the Green Line at Warrensville and Green Road stops should be permitted, and/or have the Green Line extended 2 miles to the jobs-rich Beachwood Place which is also surrounded by high-density housing. That's an all-day ridership anchor. These expansions probably meet federal criteria to attract federal funds (unlike the Red Line extension to Euclid which would be able to attract federal funds if a local share can be found!), so local/state funding would have to pay 100% for routing one of the light-rail lines to UC and a possible extension to Beachwood Place.

 

Fares produce very little revenue for most transit systems -- usually only about 20-30 percent of the operating budget. GCRTA's fare revenue contribution to the bottom line is about 25%. On most other the systems outside Ohio, the remaining revenues are roughly split from among a local tax and from the state. Some of that is used for capital improvements (state of good repair and expansion). At GCRTA and other big-city Ohio systems, they get NOTHING from the state. So the local tax has to provide the ENTIRE remainder of the operating cost and whatever is left over can be provided to state of good repair and expansion. That's a big burden on their local tax support. This is especially true for GCRTA which gets its local tax wholly from within Cuyahoga County -- a county whose population declined from 1.8 million in 1970 (last full census before GCRTA was created in 1975) to 1.3 million today. That means fewer people are buying stuff in Cuyahoga County which means fewer sales tax revenues from GCRTA.

 

Yet the metro area population hasn't fallen. It's stayed almost exactly the same since 1970 -- about 2.1 million. And the job sprawl has preceded the population sprawl. So the 25 percent of Cleveland households without a car can't reach the jobs that have moved outside the county. Few things are a bigger cause of poverty than this.

 

Surrounding counties don't fund transit very well or at all. Summit County does a pretty good job at funding transit and Lake County and Portage County do almost as well as Summit. But Geauga, Lorain and Medina don't have any dedicated tax for transit. Yet up to 40 percent of the cars parked at GCRTA's park-n-ride lots in Westlake and Strongsville are cars with non-Cuyahoga County license plates. There is demand for more inter-county transit services, yet funding it and providing it gets complicated.

^That's BS.  I know for a fact, RTA goes to Medina and Lake County.  Therefore, those counties should be chipping into the pot for funding toward the transit service.  In my opinion, those counties/municipalities should dump their crappy inter-county service like Barta and Parta and allocate those dollars completely toward GCRTA.  In-turn, they could receive better service from RTA, and be able to access more destinations on one bus versus several transfers.  Also, I think Metro in Summit County and GCRTA should regionalize efforts and share dollars as a transit powerhouse, but obviously that's A LOT of political tape to cut through. 

Posted at:

http://allaboardohio.org/2015/10/20/gcrtas-calabrese-responds-to-aao/

 

Official statement by Joe Calabrese, GM/CEO of the Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority (RTA):

 

It's no secret that public transit is underfunded, both nationally and throughout Ohio. RTA's Blue/Green Lines are a 100-year old community asset, with the Red Line 60 years old. We have absolutely no plans to abandon these irreplaceable assets.

 

Here are the facts:

 

+ RTA spends tens of millions every year to maintain and upgrade its rail network. In the past year, we have opened two new Red Line stations: Cedar-University and Little Italy-University Circle, and we will soon open the Lee-Van Aken Station on the Blue Line. The popular Brookpark Station is under construction now and will open next summer. Replacements for the East 34th Street and the East 116th Street rail stations are currently being designed, with planned construction starting in 2016.

+ Over the past 10 years RTA has spent more than $30 million to upgrade our existing fleet of rail cars, to extend their useful life to 2025, which is the target date for their replacement.

+ RTA is currently studying whether a single rail car fleet can replace what is now two different and non-interchangeable rail car fleets. If so, the current 108 rail cars can be replaced by approximately 70 rail cars offering a significant financial savings while providing operational and service flexibility.

+ On the federal side, a funding bill has not been renewed on Capitol Hill for several years, and the needs for transit, roads and bridge improvement far outpace available funding. The Federal gas tax, of which 20 percent is targeted for transit's capital needs, for items such as rail cars, has not been increased since 1993. This lack of an adequate long-term funding bill is impacting every transit system in the nation, especially those that operate rail due to rail's high infrastructure costs.

 

In Ohio, a 2014 Transit Needs Study sponsored by ODOT found that the average State supports 20 percent of the cost of transit, while Ohio supports only 1 percent. It recommended that Ohio increase its transit funding to 10 percent by 2015. While the Governor proposed a modest increase in the current budget, that increase was not contained in the final budget bill.

 

Although only 19 percent of RTA's customers commute by rail, passenger rail is important to Cleveland. It places us in the big league with about two dozen other major cities that can offer their communities an asset that most cities cannot. This asset gives Greater Cleveland a significant advantage in attracting businesses and the talent these businesses need to be close to.

 

Around the nation, people are asking for more public transit, not less. Our challenge is to make sure those voices are heard by legislators in Washington and Columbus.

 

_________________

 

All Aboard Ohio's response to Mr. Calabrese's statement:

 

"The status quo for transit in Greater Cleveland is broken. On its 40th anniversary, now is a good time for RTA to lead a community dialogue on what the next 40 years of Northeast Ohio public transportation should be and how it should be funded. RTA's 1975 organizational and funding models for regional transit in this community are obsolete and need to be significantly updated. We encourage RTA to lead this community in a constructive dialogue and do so in an aggressive, open, public way. This is about more than just RTA not having a plan and timeline for funding the $280 million railcar fleet replacement before attrition thins the fleet below minimum levels, or even funding its $254 million in other unfunded state-of-good-repair needs for bus and rail. RTA should be reaching out to community leaders and transit user groups like All Aboard Ohio to create a new, dramatic vision for Northeast Ohio public transportation to promote economic development, improve access to jobs and do no worse than retain its ridership and supporters. No one is inspired by merely surviving."

 

###

Scene magazine jumping in:  http://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-heard/archives/2015/10/20/is-a-cleveland-rta-rail-shutdown-unavoidable

And here's some information by the man who was the team leader in ordering the Breda light-rail cars back in the late 1970s...

____________

 

Ken,

 

I like the boldness of the scenario you describe. Sadly, this is not entirely the fault of the State or RTA. Tower City is the hub of the rail system. Unlike other cities, Cleveland has not pursued high density office towers in the area surrounding Tower City. The result is an under utilized rail system. My hypothesis is that the leadership of the city and county are complicit in this problem. When Urban renewal money was first made available, it was sent out to Erieview, while many thought it should have been spent northwest of Tower City. When the Voters asked for a $35 Million subway the voters choice was blocked until the authorization expired. Cleveland has excelled in snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. If Cleveland is going to survive,as a city, it needs more than Cleveland Clinic and University Circle. It needs a viable CBD!

 

I disagree with parts of the rail car scenario. The mid-life rebuild of the Red Line cars, unlike the Blue/Green Line cars started with a sound carbody. As a result the mid-life program should have and may yet need to become a replacement of subsystems. The most bank for the buck may be in the subsystems where the many small electric motors in the air conditioning system should be replaced by 240/480 volt, 60 Hz AC motors. even the compressor motor should become a semi-hermetic AC motor-compressor package. All of these motors would be supplied by a new auxiliary inverter system. New evaporator and condenser coils might also be advisable with associated valves and controls. All of this will facilitate conversion to one of the new environmentally safe refrigerants, preferably as part of a contract to purchase new HVAC systems. Two smaller inverters although somewhat more expensive could preserve the single car redundancy of the original design's two separate air conditioning systems. The DC traction motors and GE SCM-II control units should be replaced by slightly higher rated inverters and AC traction motors. If a future is contemplated with grade crossings for the Red Line Cars, track brakes could be added to the trucks. With the replacement of the major subsystems, it might be possible to make the cars dual voltage, 750/1500 volts DC. The present 600 volts is a result of old equipment interoperability requirements. Those are gone now with all old equipment either disposed of or sent to museums.

 

If this program were to be implemented, the only major difference between these upgraded cars and a new car is that the new car would use a completely unitized HVAC unit at each end of the car.

 

At this point, not knowing what the future has in store, I would not scrap any Red Line cars!

 

The Blue and Green Line cars, due to extensive corrosion, need to be replaced. A little known fact is that they will way outrun any other North American Light Rail Car. Although they are run at a leisurely pace, their performance allows for 2 cars to perform a half-hourly schedule on either line, not counting the waterfront extension. The standard LRV specification in the USA, calls for a maximum time of 35 seconds to reach 50 mph on level, tangent track at nominal line voltage. The Breda LRVs take just 26.5 seconds to reach the same speed.  In the process of fleet attrition, it is important that all of the Flender traction gear units be retained and utilized in the operating cars. At the time of the Overhaul program, there were insufficient funds to complete the fleet replacement. The high performance and some problems at Spar Aerospace in Canada caused the original gear units to be not up to the task.

 

Incidentally, the EPA regulations on refrigerants do not require removal of the R-22 HCFC refrigerant next year. However, the availability of R-22 will become increasingly difficult and expensive. I can't recommend similar measures to those recommended for the Red Line cars because of the poor condition of the Breda carbodies

 

Finally, before RTA embarks on a new vehicle procurement, it is important that they understand the true program costs of a procurement. In addition to the carbuilder's contract cost, RTA should add the cost of a professional consulting firm to provide specification preparation, contract assistance, design review, in-plant inspection, delivery and test support and warranty assistance. The present RTA staff is ill-equipped to handle these challenges, especially where off shore design and pilot production are concerned. Even acceptance testing at RTA will need outside support. A conservative estimate for these costs is an additional 40% on top of the actual vehicle contract costs. In the past, RTA has budgeted far too little starting with the first Airporter procurement. On the Breda program many important steps were skipped due to lack of budget. RTA has paid for it later.

I'm glad officials and the media are finally talking about this.  It's been a dirty little secret that AAO and UOers blog and post about, but nobody else... until now.  Let's see if any serious change will happen -- like, say, politicians starting to really advocate for transit and seriously pressuring Columbus and Washington for more funding.  We see how these groups come together and fight for roads they want, like the Opportunity Corridor (and don't mind opening up our collective wallets for it, too -- thank you presidential candidate Kasich).  Now it's transit's turn... The Rapid's condition should have never devolved to this.  It's deplorable.

^ Great points here, especially about the failure of city planning to utilize and support the rail hub at Tower City.  Every time we make a bad planning move, we suffer the ill effects for decades.  That's how we got to this point and it's long past time for a change.  Transit Oriented Development starts with Transit Oriented Planning, which encompasses everything from zoning to fiscal policy.  Downtown needs retail.  Areas near rail stations need housing density.  Parking lots cannot be allowed to front major pedestrian streets.  All of this matters and all of these issues are interconnected. 

Speaking of State funding...has there been any discussion whatsoever on LakeTran's proposal? I know State legislators wouldn't take up the cause but have any other groups even mentioned it? The idea seemed to blow away in the wind.

There has, but its benefit will be felt mostly by smaller transit systems. The STATEWIDE financial impact from the Laketran proposal is about $80 million per year, IIRC. Don't get me wrong. If we got that in Ohio, it would be a game-changer. But we in AAO contend at least $80 million (and perhaps $100 million) additional is needed per year to rebuild, improve and expand Greater Cleveland transit. Can we educate the public as to the need and get their buy-in? That is why this transit problem should be treated as an opportunity and to go on the offensive to develop a new vision.

And who knows, maybe in 10, 15 years, as millennials start to find themselves in higher ranking political positions, we may see funding for transit projects allocated in a better direction, like rail. 

And who knows, maybe in 10, 15 years, as millennials start to find themselves in higher ranking political positions, we may see funding for transit projects allocated in a better direction, like rail. 

 

Perhaps, but I think we also have to wait for the parents or grandparents of the millennials of the conservative ex-urbanites and rural rednecks to either retire from politics, or die off, until true paradigm shifting political shifting, toward the positive, can occur.  And the really sad/scary thing is that, those parents and grandparents, have often strongly influenced their kids/grandkids... esp in a conservative state like Ohio.

IMO we need forward-thinking private developers  This town has so many cheap sites that are RIPE for TOD.  In this case I would support "build it and they will come.  W25th comes immediately to mind.

IMO we need forward-thinking private developers  This town has so many cheap sites that are RIPE for TOD.  In this case I would support "build it and they will come.  W25th comes immediately to mind.

 

Which offers a huge value-capture opportunity for sustaining existing transit services and expanding services in the future. Solutions other than general tax increases should be considered.

Speaking as someone who only moved to the northeast Ohio area in 2009, I've never understood Cleveland's transit strategy or planning.  Tower City is kind of on the edge of downtown, or at least that's certainly what it looks like to me, speaking as someone from Mars just visiting this planet for a few years before returning to my homeworld.  My office is in the Fifth Third tower downtown, which is in the middle of a large number of other office towers, with no real rail service within what most people would consider comfortable walking distance (sure, you could walk to Tower City if you were really determined, but if your rail service is only for the most committed, principled riders, you'll never get nine- and ten-figure financial support for it).

 

As for the link to Akron (mentioned by SixthCity above): even speaking as someone from Akron, I'd suggest one thing at a time.  For one thing, "Akron" is a large place in its own right, and saying you have "service to Akron" is almost condescendingly vague.  If you somehow conjured a line to the Akron Transit Center, then people would need some way of getting there before going to Cleveland.  You might as well just take the Akron Metro NCX to Public Square (which itself isn't the most convenient thing).

^It's literally a 1/3 of a mile walk from the Public Square entry of Tower City to the front door of Fifth Third Center. If that's not within "what most people would consider comfortable walking distance" then public transit has no real future in Ohio. It would also explain why Ohio is one of the least healthiest/most overweight states north of the Mason Dixon Line.

 

EDIT: to your main point, though, Cleveland's rail system is the legacy of decisions made between 60 and 105 years ago, and those decisions were made, in turn, based on value/expediency and non-transit considerations. The downtown circulation is pathetic, but that's because changes would be prohibitively expensive at this point. There were several near misses over the past 100 years that would have set us on a different course. Most recently, in the 1980s, what is now the HealthLine BRT was initially planned to be a re-routing of the Red Line. Deemed too expensive given the ridership.

 

As others point out, high-density development in the ocean of parking lots immediately northwest of Tower City would do wonders to move the worker population center of downtown closer to Tower City and make rail convenient to more people. Some day we'll get there. Hopefully we'll still have a rail system when we do.

Unfortunately it is very true that the vast majority of people here are not willing to take the rapid to work because almost everyone I seem to talk to believes Tower City is the only stop. If your office isn't near Tower City, people aren't going to utilize it. A lot of people don't even know the waterfront line exists, which in some cases can take you closer to your office (for example I work at the end of E. 9th somewhat near North Coast Station). But in many cases it takes just as long or longer to drive to the rapid station, possibly transfer, then walk to your destination, than it does to just drive. I am all about the rapid system and expanding and improving it but the sad truth is that to many many people in Cleveland, it is not viewed as convenient at all. I hope people realize how beneficial it is once the possibility of a shut down becomes more widely known.

I know people who take the Rapid then walk to the North Point building at the end of east 9th.  The Fifth Third tower is a very short walk from Tower City, half the distance of North Point.    It's unfortunate that the area around Tower City is so underdeveloped right now.  But even so, the entirety of downtown doesn't cover that much ground!  Transit rarely provides door-to-door service, even at its best.  Part of the concept is that people walk a bit more. 

 

That being said, it is crazy to have so much surface parking right by Tower City.  Develop those lots and its location starts to make more sense. 

The Red Line hasn't been hurt because it also serves University Circle, Ohio City and other neighborhoods that have seen a net gain in ridership generators.

 

Red Line ridership has held up pretty well over the past couple decades, which is what I think you were focusing on, but it's still much lower than it was in RTA's earliest days, and much, much lower than the pre-RTA days. Per Horse Trails to Regional Rails, Red Line ridership was about 8.4M in 1982 and over 14M in in the 1960s, when the Pullman "Airporter" cars were ordered. In 2014, Red Line ridership was only about 6.2M.

Speaking as someone who only moved to the northeast Ohio area in 2009, I've never understood Cleveland's transit strategy or planning.  Tower City is kind of on the edge of downtown, or at least that's certainly what it looks like to me, speaking as someone from Mars just visiting this planet for a few years before returning to my homeworld.  My office is in the Fifth Third tower downtown, which is in the middle of a large number of other office towers, with no real rail service within what most people would consider comfortable walking distance (sure, you could walk to Tower City if you were really determined, but if your rail service is only for the most committed, principled riders, you'll never get nine- and ten-figure financial support for it).

 

Exactly.  If the subway loop of the late 1950s had been built, you could have strolled to a E. 9th/Superior subway station less than a block away.  As the early poster (cited by KJP) noted, the subway was overwhelmingly supported by voters but killed off by pols... And that's what he meant when he said that Cleveland has consistently shot itself in the foot with poor planning/no planning, when it comes to transit and urban development.  Maybe now with a fresher new approach to the city and walkability by younger people, this will change... We can only hope.

Unfortunately it is very true that the vast majority of people here are not willing to take the rapid to work because almost everyone I seem to talk to believes Tower City is the only stop. If your office isn't near Tower City, people aren't going to utilize it. A lot of people don't even know the waterfront line exists, which in some cases can take you closer to your office (for example I work at the end of E. 9th somewhat near North Coast Station). But in many cases it takes just as long or longer to drive to the rapid station, possibly transfer, then walk to your destination, than it does to just drive. I am all about the rapid system and expanding and improving it but the sad truth is that to many many people in Cleveland, it is not viewed as convenient at all. I hope people realize how beneficial it is once the possibility of a shut down becomes more widely known.

 

It's ingrained among Cleveland commuters and even defies Gramarye's 5th/3rd office experience.  I've observed the Flats East Bank Waterfront Line station during evening rush hour.  Even though it sits right at the base of the new 20-story EY/Aloft Hotel complex, departing workers from the office tower stream right across the tracks over to the middle surface parking lot to get their cars.  Others head down W. 10th to the lots next to the Bridgeview apts or walk even farther under the Detroit Superior and Rapid bridges where, I guess, parking is fairly cheap.  That is, even though a Rapid station literally sits right outside their office building's door, some people would rather walk 1/3 mile (or more) for the (perceived) comfort and flexibility of their precious autos.  And yes, there's a hardy clutch of employees who DO use the Flats East Bank WFL to go to work, usually 2 or 3 (maybe 5 or 6 if RTA's lucky). 

 

Thus even when the Rapid is convenient to downtown workers, the majority STILL won't use it which is discouraging.  Only until FEB's Phase 3 closes that surface lot to make flats area parking a real pain in the ass to EY building workers, will there be some spike WFL riding... maybe.

^It's literally a 1/3 of a mile walk from the Public Square entry of Tower City to the front door of Fifth Third Center. If that's not within "what most people would consider comfortable walking distance" then public transit has no real future in Ohio. It would also explain why Ohio is one of the least healthiest/most overweight states north of the Mason Dixon Line.

 

Google Maps puts it at half a mile, and that's enough to add a significant amount of time to a commute even if I lived right on a Rapid line by my house (and I don't, I live in Akron, so the entire discussion is academic), given that I-77 is seldom truly bumper-to-bumper for long periods of time even in rush hour, and I can usually get in before or after the worst of it.  People underestimate distances.  Downtown Cleveland is bigger than you think.  And talking about what outliers are willing to stomach in terms of post- and pre-train walking distances and times is not going to change Downtown.  So there are some people willing to walk to and from Tower City to North Point every day, fine, but you definitely won't get thousands of those.

I don't want to go too far off topic... But I've only lived in Ohio for eight years. I'm curious... What were things like (peoples commuting habits via the rapid) when ridership was much higher in times past?

I don't want to go too far off topic... But I've only lived in Ohio for eight years. I'm curious... What were things like (peoples commuting habits via the rapid) when ridership was much higher in times past?

 

While not scientific, I would imagine the total jobs downtown was much higher, and there were more downtown commuters living along the Shaker lines.

I don't want to go too far off topic... But I've only lived in Ohio for eight years. I'm curious... What were things like (peoples commuting habits via the rapid) when ridership was much higher in times past?

 

While not scientific, I would imagine the total jobs downtown was much higher, and there were more downtown commuters living along the Shaker lines.

 

This is true.  Downtown up until the 80s was jammed with office workers, but no residents.  With the exception of the Parkview apts on E. 13 near PHS, all the older buildings downtown that are now apartments were office buildings.  Until the 80s, Cleveland was the 3rd largest corporate headquarters with most of those workers downtown.. Beachwood was only beginning to really take off.  Rush hour back then would make rush hour now seem small.  Shaker trains were so packed, the old system used to run express trains during rush hour -- no stops between Shaker Square and Terminal Tower...But once rush hour was done, downtown died after, say, 6-6:30p, when the stores closed... nobody lived downtown and, aside from a quiet restaurant cubbyhole here and there, there was almost nothing to do after hours...

 

In the late 70s, local comedians Big Chuck and Hoolihan infamously rolled a bowling ball down Euclid from Public Sq after 6p ... and it didn't hit anybody!

The amount of poor and ultimately destructive political decisions made in Cleveland the past 30+ years is pretty upsetting. Unfortunately I'm not convinced the leadership the City needs exists yet.

 

Maybe I'm not giving them enough credit but revitalization seems to be happening in spite of City Hall, not because of it. Now with transit there is another opportunity for them to step up or sit back.

^ When it comes to transit in the city, I see zero leadership coming from city hall. I never hear the mayor even mention anything about it.

^It's literally a 1/3 of a mile walk from the Public Square entry of Tower City to the front door of Fifth Third Center. If that's not within "what most people would consider comfortable walking distance" then public transit has no real future in Ohio. It would also explain why Ohio is one of the least healthiest/most overweight states north of the Mason Dixon Line.

 

Google Maps puts it at half a mile, and that's enough to add a significant amount of time to a commute even if I lived right on a Rapid line by my house (and I don't, I live in Akron, so the entire discussion is academic), given that I-77 is seldom truly bumper-to-bumper for long periods of time even in rush hour, and I can usually get in before or after the worst of it.  People underestimate distances.  Downtown Cleveland is bigger than you think.  And talking about what outliers are willing to stomach in terms of post- and pre-train walking distances and times is not going to change Downtown.  So there are some people willing to walk to and from Tower City to North Point every day, fine, but you definitely won't get thousands of those.

 

Weirdly, GoogleMaps seems unwilling to acknowledge the existence of Tower City's Public Square entrance, which is why it over-states the walking distance. In any case, I don't disagree with your assessment, even if I find your particular example slightly depressing. 

It's easy to say Tower City is in a bad location in hindsight after the city dismantled a half dozen streetcar lines going all throughout downtown. When it was built it wasn't expected that people would walk everywhere after stepping off the train.

^ When it comes to transit in the city, I see zero leadership coming from city hall. I never hear the mayor even mention anything about it.

 

I do -- at least when he attends the various station groundbreakings and ribbon cuttings. And it should be mentioned that Mayor Jackson's MO is to have his cabinet be at the forefront of decision-making activities on the issues they oversee. His transit advisor is Chief of Government & International Affairs Valarie McCall, who was just named as the board chair of the American Public Transportation Association. APTA is the nation's transit industry trade association comprised of transit agencies, manufacturers and others. However this appointment is only for one year. I believe she could be reappointed to the position next year. http://www.apta.com/mediacenter/pressreleases/2015/Pages/151005_2015-16-Executive-Committee.aspx

 

One other thing.... If there's a problem with a transit agency, the best way to find it is in winter. Northern cities who have transit infrastructure or equipment deficiencies will have them exposed by old man winter. Cleveland has had serious rail system issues the past two harsh winters -- the very issues All Aboard Ohio has been identifying and urging significant increases in funding to tackle.

 

Boston just came through its snowiest winter and MBTA's deficiencies were exposed by it. That transit system has serious rail infrastructure and aging equipment problems on its light-rail, subway and commuter rail lines. Boston's problems are Cleveland's problems, albeit on a larger system. MBTA General Manager Beverly Scott was forced to resign, which was not the right course of action as it did not solve the agency's infrastructure/equipment repair backlog. https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2015/02/09/woes-are-bigger-than-beverly-scott/QLIZY7xmg9iWtH1RJcpneM/story.html Their system, as does ours, needs major investment -- more than $7 billion. The difference is that a new control board was formed to take a step back and look at the big picture to ID all of the state-of-good-repair needs, plus new capital improvements, and recommend solutions. http://www.boston.com/business/news/2015/08/31/fixing-the-mbta-will-now-cost-more-than-billion/csGiGYsr1tsiN3ECf2ED9K/story.html

 

All Aboard Ohio is NOT asking for anyone to be fired, replaced, etc. We are asking for a comprehensive plan to ID all state-of-good-repair needs plus some modest expansions and/or route restructuring so services align with modern/emerging travel patterns and economic development goals, including an assessment of and suggestions for providing multi-county transit services. That's all.

 

It's easy to say Tower City is in a bad location in hindsight after the city dismantled a half dozen streetcar lines going all throughout downtown. When it was built it wasn't expected that people would walk everywhere after stepping off the train.

 

I don't think Tower City is in a bad location.  Public Square is, has been, and likely always will be, the hub of our public transit system.  It is also the major crossroads of downtown and the City.  1/3 mile is not an excessive walk.  I just checked downtown Chicago, which has one of the nation's best rail systems, and the signature, 100-floor John Hancock building on Michigan Ave, for example, is .4 miles from the nearest L stop (Chicago) -- the same distance from Tower City to the corner of E. 9th & Euclid.  The Water Tower Place mall is .5 miles (a half mile) from the Chicago L stop... Downtown Cleveland isn't that large compared to other major cities and most walks from Rapid stations are manageable. 

And it should be mentioned that Mayor Jackson's MO is to have his cabinet be at the forefront of decision-making activities on the issues they oversee. His transit advisor is Chief of Government & International Affairs Valarie McCall...

 

When she's dealing with other agencies within government I'm sure she's great. But if she ever tried to appeal to the public no one would care because they've never heard of her before. When Frank Jackson holds a press conference, people listen whether they agree or not. He may care profoundly, and I think he needs to share that publicly. Politicians can be hard heads though.

^ Exactly

And it should be mentioned that Mayor Jackson's MO is to have his cabinet be at the forefront of decision-making activities on the issues they oversee. His transit advisor is Chief of Government & International Affairs Valarie McCall...

 

When she's dealing with other agencies within government I'm sure she's great. But if she ever tried to appeal to the public no one would care because they've never heard of her before. When Frank Jackson holds a press conference, people listen whether they agree or not. He may care profoundly, and I think he needs to share that publicly. Politicians can be hard heads though.

 

I agree, Mayor Jackson has the bully pulpit and, quite frankly, aside from him holding a giant pair of scissors at a Rapid station ribbon cutting, I have never heard him comment, vocally or in print, about the needs of mass transit, locally.  Ms. McCall is apparently very, very good in her work for transit, locally and nationally, but we really need to hear more from Frank.

And it should be mentioned that Mayor Jackson's MO is to have his cabinet be at the forefront of decision-making activities on the issues they oversee. His transit advisor is Chief of Government & International Affairs Valarie McCall...

 

When she's dealing with other agencies within government I'm sure she's great. But if she ever tried to appeal to the public no one would care because they've never heard of her before. When Frank Jackson holds a press conference, people listen whether they agree or not. He may care profoundly, and I think he needs to share that publicly. Politicians can be hard heads though.

 

I agree, Mayor Jackson has the bully pulpit and, quite frankly, aside from him holding a giant pair of scissors at a Rapid station ribbon cutting, I have never heard him comment, vocally or in print, about the needs of mass transit, locally.  Ms. McCall is apparently very, very good in her work for transit, locally and nationally, but we really need to hear more from Frank.

 

Even if Jackson did comment on RTA he would only put people to sleep. He's just not an effective advocate, at least not in that way. RTA needs someone with a great deal of good energy to help sell their merits.

^I can't argue with you about that.

An idea for Greater Cleveland...

 

Mass #transportation sec floats funding #Boston green line #transit with value capture https://t.co/Psgd2KUeyW @landpolicy

^I think we've argued a bit about this before. I'm still extremely skeptical "value capture" (in the sense used in that Lincoln blog post) has any potential to finance significant transit expansion in Cleveland. I just don't think rail service adds enough value to property values in our market, and we're still in a development environment where most high density development needs substantial subsidy. I guess things could heat up enough that some tax abatement could be rolled back and the money directed into transit infrastructure (sort of like TIF, but for off-site infrastructure), but at that point your pitting the city's treasury against RTA's.

Another potential revenue source? Closing a tax loophole on Ohio casinos could bring about $65 million per year -- which could be dedicated to public transit -- although the article below says $165 million which could be an accumulated amount since 2012....

 

http://www.myajc.com/news/business/ohio-bet-on-gambling-didnt-meet-expectations/nn7sn/

 

Coley said Georgia needs to study other states to know what it’s getting into. One example, he said, was granting a tax break he estimates has cost Ohio $165 million in tax revenue.

 

Ohio agreed to let casinos avoid paying taxes on what’s called “free play,” or promotions to encourage gamblers to visit by giving them small amounts of casino credit. Other states tax it.

 

Coley said free play includes rewards club memberships and has added up to more than $500 million statewide in potential untaxed revenue.

I lament that we have reached this point in Ohio.

 

for all the funding schemes and ideas.

we have this fact, we are providing 55% of the peak service we were providing in 1991.

 

# of vehicles need for maximum/ peak service

1991 630 buses, 38 Redline trains, and 28 Blue/green line trains

 

2013 350 buses, 20 redline trains, and 14 Blue green trains.

 

in effect we are providing 55% of the Service we were providing in 1991

 

 

The Core of the matter is Transit is considered discretionary spending in Ohio there is no guaranteed source of revenue like there is for Roads. So the common theme in Columbus when it comes to increased funding for Transit is To force Transit supportive legislators to choose between funding transit and funding another program like education of healthcare.  Transit never wins, unless it is funding from the Transportation budget.

 

Which always leads to the Gas tax, which is the logical source of revenue for Transit not the general fund.

 

Until We as a group stop cowering in fear and come together t address the Gas Tax we will never see sustainable funding for Transit in Ohio.

 

 

 

Is there any state that allows gas tax revenues for transit?  IIRC Pennsylvania has a similar problem to Ohio in this regard, and both Pittsburgh and Philadelphia have major transit systems, with Philly having a gigantic but badly aging rail infrastructure.  The freeway lobby of these states -- which often seem to be conveniently centered away from major transit metro areas, are usually very selfish and stingy when it comes to allowing gas taxes utilized for any other purpose but roads... I believe they put these tax provisions in their state constitutions which makes it even more difficult to change them.