Hey everyone.

A murmur in the (ahem) "Quiet Crisis" discussion is the fact that Cleveland needs to realize that it is a college town.  So my first question to the group is, do you think that is true?

If we are talking Greater Cleveland there is Case, CSU, Oberlin, Akron, John Carroll, BW, Kent, and lots of little ones like Ursuline and Lake Erie College.

 

So, what do we need to do to "become" a college town?  What sort of benefits can we leverage by being one?

 

No.  Cleveland is too big to be a real college town.  It is still pretty corporate and industrial.

 

The NE city that has the possibility of repositioning itself as a college town is Youngstown, as YSU is, I think, the major employer there now.

 

 

I'm not terribly familiar with all the colleges and universities in the Cleveland area, but I think for a city that size to be a "college town" (in the way some would characterize Boston) it needs to have several major universities in the central area.

I think Akron is closer to that.  UA is a pretty big college and it seems to be starting to have an impact on that part of the city.

 

Cleveland isn't necessarily out of that game, though.  The idea for larger cities, I think, should be to cultivate little cities within cities that revolve around their colleges.  This can certainly happen around CSU and Case (and their campus plans reflect that).  And maybe even in the more distant future, it can happen around Myers University's new midtown campus if they continue trying to remake themselves as a more traditional college and less a business school.

I wouldn't say Cleveland comes to mind as a college town because there is not one very large or several medium sized university's.  CSU doesnt really strike me as being too college-y and Case seems a bit small to really make Cleveland a college town like Columbus, Boston, or Austin.

If CSU changed to University of Cleveland and had a kick ass Football team with double enrollemnt maybe...

The neighborhood surrounding CSU, and how the way CSU was built, and how it viewed the city in general; makes cleveland not a college town. College towns got rows of slum houses being rented by college students, in cleveland we got REAL slums.

CSU really needs to get a football team. They can join the MAC for a couple of years. I am sure that games against Akron, BGSU, and Toledo would draw pretty well. Cleveland/NE Ohio is one of the best recruiting areas for 1A football talent, so I am sure they could field a competitive team in less then 10 years.

I agree that CSU could use a footballl team.  Here is what I propose: Wolstein wants a soccer stadium, his family is already the largest donor in CSU history, and CSU could use a football team.  Why not combine these two efforts and produce one 15-20k stadium (possibly containing dorms) on the surface lot just east of Reserve Square?  Throw in the fact that St. Ignatius currently plays in Lakewood, they could also be a partner on the project.  There is no reason they shouldn't play in Cleveland.  This would be a huge boost to both CSU's campus as well as the neighborhood currently proposed for that area and Playhouse Square.  Between the resources of Wolstein, CSU, and St. Ignatius alumni, they should be able to get it done if they put their minds to it.  The football team would produce a sense of pride in alumni, hopefully getting them to open up their pocket books and to take an active interest in the future of the school.  It would also help out in creating the residential campus CSU envisions, and possibley attract Spring and Fall concerts that students would be in walking distance of.

 

I also agree that CSU could use a rebranding.  University of Cleveland, Cleveland University, whatever.  It could dovetail with a marketing campaign to tout its new residential campus, as well as its new downtown football team.  It would truly be a fresh start.  I can already see the t-shirts sporting "Cleveland Law,"  "Cleveland Urban,"  "Cleveland Engineering,"  etc.  Let me know what you guys think. 

I like the comments that I see here.  I agree with what most of you have said that Cleveland won't ever approach what Boston or Philadelphia have, but we do have several mid-size universities with the potential to develop their campuses and surroundings into more interactive, cohesive parts of the city they call home.  Case has a head start on this and universities like CSU and Tri-C have opportunities galore with their Downtown campuses.  I know CSU has fantastic plans in motion to increase residency on-campus and build a college-town surrounding it...but i know nothing of Tri-C Metro's plans. 

 

As far as identity goes, CWRU has a great rep nationwide, but people give me this quizzical look when I tell them I'm leaving NYC for CSU.  People from outside of Ohio are mostly curious about what CSU has to offer, but it's the people from Ohio that ask "really? CSU? why?"  The local/regional reputation is poor, at best, until you get down to individual programs like Urban Affairs and Law.  And once you get outside of Ohio, no one knows the first thing about it.  It's true that the word "state" has negative connotations and insinuates an "only locals go here" feeling to outsiders, but the problems go beyond that.  The University of Cincinnati (a state school), for example, has a far greater reputation and recognition than Cleveland STATE University.  But that's for a whole host of reasons.  There's also Cincinnati State, which has less notoriety than Cleveland State and probably attracts so little attention because of its big brother state school up the road.  So, name change, sports teams, branding, marketing outside of Ohio, these are all difference makers, true.  But we've got to build it up locally first.  And CSU is taking steps to make that happen with its current academic and physical master plan.

 

By the way, there was a University of Cleveland back in the day that sat in University Heights, which is now known as Tremont.  Professor?  Literary?  College?  Sound familiar?

Dont forget that Kent has the Urban Design Collective in the gateway 'hood

right, and through a conversation with a faculty member there, I found that the collaboration between CSU and the KSU UDC isn't as strong as it could be!  Formal agreements exist, but there's not much actually happening.  Or at least that's what I got out of our conversation...

I see one of the problems here in trying to define Cleveland is that there is no concerted message being broadcast consistently.  Fragmented messages, while providing the opportunity to appeal individually to a large number of people, do not allow for brand development.  Cleveland is described variably across these threads as a college town, a high-tech (or bio-tech) wonderland, a manufacturing town, etc.  I think someone with a modicum of power or money in the area needs to decide what the desired image is, then work toward that goal. 

 

More specifically to the idea of what creates a college town, I think national, positive recognition is the key.  If we have to remind each other of the universities or campuses in the area, that's not a good thing. 

i would have to that lakewood, to cleveland's west, is a college town without a college. with many bars and cheap housing, many students live in lakewood and commute to csu and other schools. there are rumors that akron wants to open a branch in the southeast corner of the city, which looks to me as sort of a turf war with csu, since they just opened a branch in westlake, bypassing lakewood.

Lindsh, I think you've touched on something - that there a lot of positive messages being sent out about Cleveland but there's a noticeable lack of direction and backing.

 

I see it as a problem that comes from one of Cleveland's greatest strengths - the city truly offers a little bit of everything, but it isn't big enough in any one area to truly have a strong identity. On the same level, the region has universities with under 1K undergrads to larger state institutions like Kent State. But none of them have a presence on the national level with the exception of certain programs at each. Does that kind of presence develop on its own, or can it be nudged into existence?

I think the only ones with a national reputation are Case and Oberlin.  These are both schools that draw a lot of out-of-towners to the region due to their exemplary reputations.  Case is more of a "2nd tier ivy" type school and Oberlin is part of an elite class of "liberal arts or junior ivies."  There's talk about this on other threads in this forum, but I will reiterate that one of the biggest things that I think our universities and colleges need to focus on is retention of graduating students.  This means first and foremost, our own population, but next, the people who come into the region for four years of study, but are never really enticed to stay.  Oberlin is a particularly heartbreaking example of this to me because so many of my friends in New York went there, but have no knowledge of Cleveland AT ALL!!!  There are people working on this and one great example can be found here: http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=2716.0

I agree that retention is key, but also, Cleveland area businesses need to recruit in the top schools around the country.  Only one Cleveland-located office came to recruit at my Ivy, and it is a branch office of an Chicago firm. 

 

Now, I don't know how to convince these companies to recruit, but retaining local students and increasing visibility amongst top students may be a large step forward toward any objective Cleveland desires.

"I think the only ones with a national reputation are Case and Oberlin... ""

 

I agree but as I said, certain programs at other schools attract students from outside the region. Some good examples that are often overlooked are the School of Fashion Design and Merchandising and the School of Journalism at Kent State. The FD&M school is consistently ranked with Parsons, FIT, and Pratt and manages to place graduates in high-up spots in the industry, and the School of Journalism has a great reputation.

 

"Cleveland area businesses need to recruit in the top schools around the country.  Only one Cleveland-located office came to recruit at my Ivy, and it is a branch office of an Chicago firm."

 

Yep - and again the negative image of Cleveland has to be overcome without seeming trite. I mean, can a recruiter suggest to students that "come to Cleveland, it's really not THAT bad!" 

:wink:

have we heard of Summer on the Cuyahoga? http://www.summeronthecuyahoga.com/

 

from Cool Cleveland: Replace Northeast Ohio's "brain drain" with "brain gain" through an innovative internship program that provides 75 undergraduates from around the U.S. with experiential learning opportunities and internships at major Cleveland-area businesses. Case is co-hosting the regional Yale, Colgate, Case, Smith, and Princeton alumni associations' 10-week, "Summer on the Cuyahoga 2005" program and promoting Cleveland as the place to live, work, learn and play, attracting students from the four hosts and other universities to settle in Northeast Ohio. The program brings talented undergraduates to Cleveland for high-quality paid internships, community engagement, alumni mentorship and social events.

I think the out of town recruiting thing is a huge, and hugely underappreciated issue, actually.  I think that any town that wants to be on the cutting edge has to have a continual "churn" of talent and ideas that can only come by mixing up people that have come from different backgrounds.  That means ethnic, religious, political, and yes, geographic.  Our knowledge and practices here seem to often grow a little stale or inbred as we have intellectually isolated ourselves.  It will take a conscious and concerted effort to change that.

 

Also, I agree that CSU needs a football team.  Ewoops' idea is interesting, and if I controlled CSU's planning process I would look into something like that.

Why does the university even own the building on Euclid Avenue?  Condensing everything into the building on Prospect seems to be a no brainer.  It's in the middle of the city in a relatively attractive building, while the other is marooned down Euclid Avenue, accessible basically by car or bus.  How much of the Prospect Building is even utilized by them?

It is nice to hear Ratner, et al, feel Myers can pull it off. I hope it works out.

I've heard many current students have already left.

 

Since I just found this revived thread (it seems to be the week for it), the first thing I wondered was what people thought of Columbus. If it was not the state capital, would it be considered a college town?

 

 

If it was not the state capital, would it be considered a college town?

 

 

 

No!  Just an ever extending cow pasture!

Why does the university even own the building on Euclid Avenue?  Condensing everything into the building on Prospect seems to be a no brainer.  It's in the middle of the city in a relatively attractive building, while the other is marooned down Euclid Avenue, accessible basically by car or bus.  How much of the Prospect Building is even utilized by them?

 

They had wanted to build a more traditional campus, including some buildings across Carnegie and a new fieldhouse.  Last I heard, they no longer occupy any space in the Prospect building (at least for class space), which is now a charter school.

^In fact, I think some of the current financial problems arose from the sale of the Prospect building for far less than the value shown on the school's books- so I too think they are all out of their old location.

 

Is this really a Cleveland-as-college-town thread without a shout-out to CIA and CIM?  I know their enrollments are pretty small (compared to CSU and CWRU) but they pack some important punch in terms of drawing high profile out of town creative talent.

Good point about CIA and CIM.  A lady I know in D.C. and her very talented daughter who attends a private music school in Michigan, have become fans of Cleveland when her daughter took some lessons from world renowned Oboe player John Mack (recently deceased) at the CIM.  They made several visits and applied to the program at CIM.  On their visits I made out schedules for them of must see and things to do, and arranged for them to go to Severance Hall for a performance.  The girl had narrowed her search to Cleveland, Boston and Philadelphia (the 3 best for her specialty)  She ended up choosing Cleveland as her first choice (since she fell in love with the place), but unfortunately didn't win the one slot open for that program, which apparently is very competitive.  She instead is regretfully going to Philadelphia.  I hadn't realized just how prestigious CIM was before this.  Same for CIA which I have more recently read many specialized areas where they excel.  Also, from what I have seen, I think many CIM graduates do stay in the Cleveland area with its wealth of music options etc. 

To me, these are all sort of lumped in with the CWRU campus..  With their new and future buildings and focuses I think they will further add to their own identities.       

Cleveland and Philly are pretty much on par musically and culturally (as well as medically).  I'm not an expert in the field, but my guess (having lived both places) is that CIM is pretty much on par with Philly's Curtis school of Music as well as Balto's Peabody Conservatory, which for several years has been purchased/is the music school for Johns Hopkins Univ.  The Cleveland and Philly orchestras are also both top-5, although I think we nudge Philly out as we're neck 'n neck w/ NYC as numero uno in the eyes of most critics, including smug New Yawkas.

I always thought that Peabody was supposed to be one of the best, but according to the people mentioned above, it has really fallen down in the ranks, not what it used to be.   

This old thread may be the place to suggest:

 

Cleveland needs a top-tier business school with international appeal.

 

CSU and John Carroll may be the leading contenders with Baldwin Wallace and Kent also possibilities.  I question whether CSU can do it in competition with OSU for funds and support at the state level.  Meanwhile JCU seems to want to improve its business school, which is probably its cheapest path to prominence in something; but it needs money and its alumni are not quick to donate large sums. This could easily be a worthy mission for the Cleveland Foundation to support. CF has more than enough money ($50 milion a year over 10 years for the purpose?) but they seem preoccupied with too many smallish, no-impact programs under their current leadership.

 

Maybe Bibb or Ronayne could take up the cause.

^ We need a top tier university period. CWRU is pretty good but too small to have a significant impact. Cleveland is making a lot of progress in several areas but I would like to see a concerted effort to increase the visibility and reach of NASA and our top two universities. CSU is not pulling much weight at all and CWRU is just too small to have a major impact. 

 

In CSU's case there are many example of comparable school's around the country that have improved their enrollment, profile, facilities and academic standing. All of that was a result of a major effort by the school and local leaders including politicians and business groups. CSU will continue to lag until there is a major effort to grow it. It won't be easy but a major city needs a major university. 

25 minutes ago, Dougal said:

This old thread may be the place to suggest:

 

Cleveland needs a top-tier business school with international appeal.

 

CSU and John Carroll may be the leading contenders with Baldwin Wallace and Kent also possibilities.  I question whether CSU can do it in competition with OSU for funds and support at the state level.  Meanwhile JCU seems to want to improve its business school, which is probably its cheapest path to prominence in something; but it needs money and its alumni are not quick to donate large sums. This could easily be a worthy mission for the Cleveland Foundation to support. CF has more than enough money ($50 milion a year over 10 years for the purpose?) but they seem preoccupied with too many smallish, no-impact programs under their current leadership.

 

Maybe Bibb or Ronayne could take up the cause.

 

People may laugh - but John Carroll should have never went to Division III in sports. A D1 athletic program would change the perception of the school and really help in this instance

7 minutes ago, cadmen said:

^ We need a top tier university period. CWRU is pretty good but too small to have a significant impact. Cleveland is making a lot of progress in several areas but I would like to see a concerted effort to increase the visibility and reach of NASA and our top two universities. CSU is not pulling much weight at all and CWRU is just too small to have a major impact. 

 

In CSU's case there are many example of comparable school's around the country that have improved their enrollment, profile, facilities and academic standing. All of that was a result of a major effort by the school and local leaders including politicians and business groups. CSU will continue to lag until there is a major effort to grow it. It won't be easy but a major city needs a major university. 

Cleveland has always suffered from not having a top State research university in the area. Case is phenomenal, but as a private institution is limited in some areas. Case is just like Carnegie Mellon in Pittsburgh but Pittsburgh also has Pitt as a top research school too. This is what Cleveland ultimately misses. Akron is the closest thing but does not have the same pull (being in Akron) as it would if it were in Cleveland, and still seems a tier lower (maybe in perception) than say Ohio State and Cincinnati  in Ohio. 

CSU is not a major research university, or never really developed into one if it was meant to be in that role. It is like Wright State, Youngstown State or even Northern Kentucky. All nice institutions but more commuter schools serving the local population that wanted an affordable education in the local market. 

 

John Carroll and BW are not research schools. They are good schools, but they do not bring in the research dollars the state schools or Case does. 

4 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

 

People may laugh - but John Carroll should have never went to Division III in sports. A D1 athletic program would change the perception of the school and really help in this instance

I felt the same way for a long time. I do not think they could have kept up the arms spending to compete at D1 level with a football program, and football is such an expensive endeavor to maintain at the D1 level. Although Wake Forest and Tulsa are successful private schools that keep that funding up. 

 

I think the biggest difference with Carroll vs schools like Wake or Tulsa or other smaller D1 private schools are that JCU was much more of a commuter school for a long time and did not really develop into having a larger on campus presence until the early 80s. In a way JCU was very similar to Xavier in Cincinnati, except for the fact that Xavier dropped football to focus on basketball. That would never happen at JCU as they have too proud of a football history. 

9 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

I felt the same way for a long time. I do not think they could have kept up the arms spending to compete at D1 level with a football program, and football is such an expensive endeavor to maintain at the D1 level. Although Wake Forest and Tulsa are successful private schools that keep that funding up. 

 

I think the biggest difference with Carroll vs schools like Wake or Tulsa or other smaller D1 private schools are that JCU was much more of a commuter school for a long time and did not really develop into having a larger on campus presence until the early 80s. In a way JCU was very similar to Xavier in Cincinnati, except for the fact that Xavier dropped football to focus on basketball. That would never happen at JCU as they have too proud of a football history. 

 

I think they could have taken the route of Fordham, though. Fordham is bigger, no doubt, but developed their business and law schools while also maintaining division 1 athletics. 

 

Athletics are a cornerstone of the Jesuit educational experience, too, so support from the Order never would've been a problem. 

1 hour ago, Dougal said:

This old thread may be the place to suggest:

 

Cleveland needs a top-tier business school with international appeal.

 

CSU and John Carroll may be the leading contenders with Baldwin Wallace and Kent also possibilities.  I question whether CSU can do it in competition with OSU for funds and support at the state level.  Meanwhile JCU seems to want to improve its business school, which is probably its cheapest path to prominence in something; but it needs money and its alumni are not quick to donate large sums. This could easily be a worthy mission for the Cleveland Foundation to support. CF has more than enough money ($50 milion a year over 10 years for the purpose?) but they seem preoccupied with too many smallish, no-impact programs under their current leadership.

 

Maybe Bibb or Ronayne could take up the cause.

Intrigued to hear why you think, specifically, a top-tier business school

is what is lacking.

 

Sure, a Wharton or HBS has a certain degree of prestige associated, but in the Ed and Meds paradigm it is not business schools but Mech E or bio-medical (just as examples) that are viewed as bringing the lasting brainpower, research grants, and VC to a region. Which often stays and is duplicated many time over in that region. A box-check MBA program just doesn’t have that same region-boosting potential. 
 

But as I said, maybe there is another angle to this that you’re highlighting instead?

I always thought that JCU could do well by going DI in basketball, but staying DIII in the other sports. There are so many smaller privates (including Jesuit schools that have DI basketball, yet have lower division football programs or no football at all---Georgetown, Gonzaga, Marquette, Xavier, Loyola Chicago, Loyola Marymount, Creighton, and Fairfield to name the ones that quickly come to mind.). 

56 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

 

I think they could have taken the route of Fordham, though. Fordham is bigger, no doubt, but developed their business and law schools while also maintaining division 1 athletics. 

 

Athletics are a cornerstone of the Jesuit educational experience, too, so support from the Order never would've been a problem. 

Of course to your point, Villanova and Duquesne would be good examples of small catholic schools who are d1 at everything but fcs in football. Both are similar size to JCU

15 minutes ago, 3231 said:

I always thought that JCU could do well by going DI in basketball, but staying DIII in the other sports. There are so many smaller privates (including Jesuit schools that have DI basketball, yet have lower division football programs or no football at all---Georgetown, Gonzaga, Marquette, Xavier, Loyola Chicago, Loyola Marymount, Creighton, and Fairfield to name the ones that quickly come to mind.). 

JCU would have to go D1 non scholarship in football per ncaa rules. Not sure how this would look but you have to have all the same division. Duquesne and Dayton are two examples of this thiugh

2 hours ago, cadmen said:

^ We need a top tier university period. CWRU is pretty good but too small to have a significant impact. Cleveland is making a lot of progress in several areas but I would like to see a concerted effort to increase the visibility and reach of NASA and our top two universities. CSU is not pulling much weight at all and CWRU is just too small to have a major impact. 

 

In CSU's case there are many example of comparable school's around the country that have improved their enrollment, profile, facilities and academic standing. All of that was a result of a major effort by the school and local leaders including politicians and business groups. CSU will continue to lag until there is a major effort to grow it. It won't be easy but a major city needs a major university. 

 

CWRU has approximately the same undergraduate enrollment as Harvard and MIT, and is much bigger than Cal Tech.

2 hours ago, brtshrcegr said:

Intrigued to hear why you think, specifically, a top-tier business school

is what is lacking.

 

Sure, a Wharton or HBS has a certain degree of prestige associated, but in the Ed and Meds paradigm it is not business schools but Mech E or bio-medical (just as examples) that are viewed as bringing the lasting brainpower, research grants, and VC to a region. Which often stays and is duplicated many time over in that region. A box-check MBA program just doesn’t have that same region-boosting potential. 
 

But as I said, maybe there is another angle to this that you’re highlighting instead?

No special angle.  I think Cleveland already has the Eds and Meds covered.  Having attended a couple sessions of the Biophysical Society annual meetings, CWRU is very well represented and respected in biosciences.  Ditto some fields of engineering.  But business is a weak point especially for Cleveland's recognition in Europe; I grant you the the US as a whole doesn't fare all that well in the FT rankings of B schools, but a Cleveland school doesn't appear at all in the FT's list of 500 schools. Only Ohio State appears on the list, and OSU is somewhere in the low 300's.

 

A B school obviously isn't essential, but it's like a major league team. It's an attention-getter - something a competitive city needs to have. Cleveland already has a major bank, a Federal Reserve Bank, major accounting and law firms. A world-class B school would provide the talent attractor of adjunct professorships as well as more management consulting opportunities. It would fill a gap in the city's 'resume'.

Cleveland does better than most of Ohio's metro areas by having two Carnegie "Research 1" universities: Case Western and Kent State. Case is also one of two AAU universities in Ohio - the other is OSU. I agree what Cleveland proper is missing is a large public R1 or even a public AAU university - this is what sets Pittsburgh apart from Cleveland and most other Midwestern cities - it has two AAU universities, the private Carnegie Mellon and the large public, University of Pittsburgh. Only Chicago can claim that in the Great Lakes region. If Cleveland State were so elevated to an R1 and eventually AAU status - such as the "University of Cleveland", the city would be much better off. As it is, OSU is blocking any other state university from achieving AAU membership, which is foolish - Indiana, Michigan, and until recently even Iowa had two public AAU universities (Iowa State recently left). A state the size of Ohio should have an AAU university in each of the three C's, not just the one in the middle. 

 

https://www.opencampusmedia.org/2022/02/15/what-a-national-research-classification-means-for-kent-state-university/

Edited May 23, 20223 yr by westerninterloper

I think it's probably worth noting that Cleveland State is relatively young as far as universities go. It was founded in 1964 and didn't merge with the law college until 1969. 

 

For comparison OSU was founded nearly 100 years earlier in 1870, University of Cinci 1819, Kent State 1910, Akron U 1870. 

 

That means they don't have the legacy and reputation to sell, though they are working hard to move up in college rankings. It also means they have a smaller and younger alumni base. Cleveland State alumni would only recently be getting to the point where they have lifetime earnings to be able to make substantial donations to the school to help improve its standings. 

9 minutes ago, Luke_S said:

I think it's probably worth noting that Cleveland State is relatively young as far as universities go. It was founded in 1964 and didn't merge with the law college until 1969. 

 

For comparison OSU was founded nearly 100 years earlier in 1870, University of Cinci 1819, Kent State 1910, Akron U 1870. 

 

That means they don't have the legacy and reputation to sell, though they are working hard to move up in college rankings. It also means they have a smaller and younger alumni base. Cleveland State alumni would only recently be getting to the point where they have lifetime earnings to be able to make substantial donations to the school to help improve its standings. 

 

Cleveland State started as Fenn College in 1923.

13 minutes ago, E Rocc said:

 

Cleveland State started as Fenn College in 1923.

 

Fenn was a private college that CSU acquired. Its not starting a university from scratch so it helps, but I'm not sure how much the legacy of Fenn helps CSU as a public university. Also, Fenn wouldn't have received any public funding from 1923 - 1964.

Edited May 23, 20223 yr by Luke_S

53 minutes ago, Luke_S said:

 

Fenn was a private college that CSU acquired. Its not starting a university from scratch so it helps, but I'm not sure how much the legacy of Fenn helps CSU as a public university. Also, Fenn wouldn't have received any public funding from 1923 - 1964.

 

My dad graduated from CSU in 1973 and at that time the connection to Fenn was still well known.

E Rocc I would put CWRU in with a lot of other schools similar in student enrollment across the country. In U.S. News and World Report college rankings in fact CWRU ranks higher than a lot of schools with comparable enrollment so that is a plus for them and the region. But even if it compares in student enrollment with Harvard and MIT I think you would agree there is very little comparison between the institutions. Academic prestige and endowments alone place them in a far different category. And I'm not saying CWRU needs to rank with Harvard or MIT to be relevant. They just need to be more than they already are to be a flagship university. 

 

As for CSU, they could start with dropping the State in their name. I remember awhile back their president at the time looked into doing that very thing but it was determined that it would be too expensive to change everything that had "State" in it. Maybe so, although it does seem odd, but other schools have done it. I get that it's simply a PR ploy but doesn't University of Cleveland sound better than Cleveland State? It sounds like what it is, a nondescript commuter school for lower middle class kids which is kinda what it is. Start with a name change and build from there. Of course it won't happen overnight but the sooner we start the sooner we get there. 

1 hour ago, cadmen said:

As for CSU, they could start with dropping the State in their name. I remember awhile back their president at the time looked into doing that very thing but it was determined that it would be too expensive to change everything that had "State" in it. Maybe so, although it does seem odd, but other schools have done it. I get that it's simply a PR ploy but doesn't University of Cleveland sound better than Cleveland State? It sounds like what it is, a nondescript commuter school for lower middle class kids which is kinda what it is. Start with a name change and build from there. Of course it won't happen overnight but the sooner we start the sooner we get there. 

The University of Cleveland vs Cleveland University. I think I like the latter better. “See you at CU”

 

I also think CSU needs to be more vocal about being the only state U in Ohio being in a major downtown. (Sorry U Akron, but downtown Akron is not in the same tier.)

 

Maybe “Ohio’s downtown hub of higher education”

3 hours ago, westerninterloper said:

Cleveland does better than most of Ohio's metro areas by having two Carnegie "Research 1" universities: Case Western and Kent State. Case is also one of two AAU universities in Ohio - the other is OSU. I agree what Cleveland proper is missing is a large public R1 or even a public AAU university - this is what sets Pittsburgh apart from Cleveland and most other Midwestern cities - it has two AAU universities, the private Carnegie Mellon and the large public, University of Pittsburgh. Only Chicago can claim that in the Great Lakes region. If Cleveland State were so elevated to an R1 and eventually AAU status - such as the "University of Cleveland", the city would be much better off. As it is, OSU is blocking any other state university from achieving AAU membership, which is foolish - Indiana, Michigan, and until recently even Iowa had two public AAU universities (Iowa State recently left). A state the size of Ohio should have an AAU university in each of the three C's, not just the one in the middle. 

 

https://www.opencampusmedia.org/2022/02/15/what-a-national-research-classification-means-for-kent-state-university/

Didn't Pittsburgh's movers and shakers pump a ton of money into Pitt and CMU back during the 80s when Big Steel crashed and the city itself hit rock bottom? A few people there recognized early on that Eds and Meds were going to be some kind of lifeline for a city that everyone else was ready to write off and leave for dead.

 

Neither Pitt nor CMU were powerhouse universities back then, but few would deny them seats at the VIP table now. Cleveland ought to take a page out of Pittsburgh's book already. There should totally be a similar campaign re-image and beef-up CSU and CWRU to at least rank competitively with Pittsburgh's top schools. CSU could become the Cleveland equivalent of Pitt, and CWRU could become a true rival to CMU.

 

As for OSU blocking other state universities from the AAU, I agree, it's totally stupid, and actually does not serve OSU. Cincinnati already deserves a seat at that table. What are you scared of, OSU? Let others compete with you and let that inspire you to become even better, rather than undermining your legitimate in-state competition.

3 hours ago, Luke_S said:

I think it's probably worth noting that Cleveland State is relatively young as far as universities go. It was founded in 1964 and didn't merge with the law college until 1969. 

 

For comparison OSU was founded nearly 100 years earlier in 1870, University of Cinci 1819, Kent State 1910, Akron U 1870. 

 

That means they don't have the legacy and reputation to sell, though they are working hard to move up in college rankings. It also means they have a smaller and younger alumni base. Cleveland State alumni would only recently be getting to the point where they have lifetime earnings to be able to make substantial donations to the school to help improve its standings. 

 

 

yeah, the history is bgsu and kent were founded at the exact same time on opposite ends of the state as normal colleges (that is, for teachers). however, even though it isnt true, the perception of these two schools became very different. because kent is in populated ne ohio it naturally became more commuter oriented, which probably hurt it's status locally anyway, just as with bg in a rural region it became seen as being more residential and traditional.

 

anyway, i always thought that csu should have ... and still should ... develop a big medical program, so they can partner with the clinic. seems like a waste not to take advantage, or better advantage if they or kent already have something, of that world reknown resource.

 

 

I thought there was plans for a med school at one time but there was a fight between kent/Akron/CSU and some of the other schools in the area so they agreed to share resources and form NEOUCOM. 
 

Welp! We can't have this conversation without bringing up this unfortunate (for NE Ohio) bit of history. 

 

https://www.lib.uchicago.edu/collex/exhibits/building-long-future/john-d-rockefeller/ 

Edited May 24, 20223 yr by DO_Summers