I've searched online but found nothing yet. Let's keep our eyes/ears open. If we can verify this, I'd love to move this thread back into the active projects section.

I checked the Dodge reports, and nothing listed.  If this project was in any type of stage ranging from planning to construction, or even delayed, it would be listed. 

Bummer. But thanks.

Has anyone been to the top of the garage?  It looks like you would have 3-5 stories of buildings (depending on the side) right next to any tower built above it, which would kill views (and prices for all of those units, shifting even more weight on the other units pricing).  Unfortunately I think building on top of the garage would be such an expensive endeavor, you would need some serious subisdies from the City/State/Etc to make the project work.  The North facing units of a building there would have an amazing view though, right up the mall to the lakefront  8-)  I would love to see someone come in and take the risk, however I think the best bet at new and high end apartments being built would be a retrofit of an existing building, or a smaller tower somewhere else, with less cost/risk

 

I disagree. First, any residential, particuarly rental needs serious subsidies to work in Cleveland with our cost of living that's not unique to this property (though the reason we see more conversions than newcon is because there are more tools available... fed and state tax credits, vpi, etc). And this garage was built for the purpose of having additional construction above. So the "costs" were already built into the superstructure of the garage. As far as facing out looking at buildings... that is what city living is. If you have been inside 668 on the euclid side, the windows look directly out at the garfield and guardian buildings framing one of the most beautiful vantage points in the entire city.

 

All that being said, its really tough to do residential right now... especially if you don't have access to the tools available for repurposing older historic structures. So I wouldn't see this happening any time soon.

Sorry for the misunderstanding, I didn't mean that it would be more expensive than just building on a fresh site, if anything, this project could have saved someone about $20 million in costs because of a 7 (or 8 ) story garage already built, and it being purchased for less than half of the costs plus land. I meant that it would just be plain expensive (as it would on a fresh site) to build some high-end resi, and if you want to have the A property in the market, having a few floors of views of an office space is going to hurt prices a little bit.  668 does have some bad views, but their rents are much less than you would need to get for a new high-end building.

well then we will just have to agree to disagree, because I strongly disagree :)

 

framing views and architecture of the garfield building, euclid/colonial arcades, william and rogers building, and mccrory building or the arcade, is nothing short of spectacular. In most every real city in the world you visit residential properties have views out their windows framing buildings next to or across the street... with a handful of the higher floors which offer expansive top down views of the entire city (that people typically pay out the nose for). both are "city living". having a bunch of early 20th century beaux arts buildings outside your window is like getting the best art in the world for free.

Bummer. But thanks.

 

Better than the abandoned catagory.  However, I do not think it was ever officially proposed, so it could not be abandoned.  I was trying to recall that. 

well then we will just have to agree to disagree, because I strongly disagree :)

 

framing views and architecture of the garfield building, euclid/colonial arcades, william and rogers building, and mccrory building or the arcade, is nothing short of spectacular. In most every real city in the world you visit residential properties have views out their windows framing buildings next to or across the street... with a handful of the higher floors which offer expansive top down views of the entire city (that people typically pay out the nose for). both are "city living". having a bunch of early 20th century beaux arts buildings outside your window is like getting the best art in the world for free.

 

AMEN!  100% agree with Da Mayor!

 

Better than the abandoned catagory.  However, I do not think it was ever officially proposed, so it could not be abandoned.  I was trying to recall that. 

 

True. Based on what may be happening with the residential tower atop the RTA transit center that's being proposed not by RTA but by DCA/HWHD (BTW: that little factoid is a VERY important distinction), I think there may still be something to this rumor about a tower built atop 515 Euclid. They may be sniffing around some financiers and that could have triggered the rumor. But one of the attractions of this property to Harbor Group International was the development air rights. And considering they got a $20 million, revenue-producing foundation for $8.15 million (http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20111004/FREE/111009957), that discount makes any housing project more financially viable.

^What is the first tower you mentioned above?  I know wrong thread, but a quick little sidenote never hurt anyone.  I may not aware of happenings with that.

well then we will just have to agree to disagree, because I strongly disagree :)

 

framing views and architecture of the garfield building, euclid/colonial arcades, william and rogers building, and mccrory building or the arcade, is nothing short of spectacular. In most every real city in the world you visit residential properties have views out their windows framing buildings next to or across the street... with a handful of the higher floors which offer expansive top down views of the entire city (that people typically pay out the nose for). both are "city living". having a bunch of early 20th century beaux arts buildings outside your window is like getting the best art in the world for free.

 

Totally agree!  I lived in Florence Italy (note screen name) for 5 months.  I looked directly out across the street to a 16th century building and it was fantastic.  Now a view out to an alley way would be a different story.

^What is the first tower you mentioned above?  I know wrong thread, but a quick little sidenote never hurt anyone.  I may not aware of happenings with that.

 

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,3323.msg587735.html#msg587735

Nope. No tower.  But sandwiches!!!

 

Potbelly Sandwich Shop to set up shop in downtown Cleveland

By STAN BULLARD

2:00 pm, April 13, 2012

 

A Potbelly Sandwich Shop is bound for 515 Euclid Ave. in downtown Cleveland by early June as the Chicago-based, 200-store chain starts to chomp into the Northeast Ohio food market.

 

The chain, which offers handmade sandwiches and made-to-order salads, will employ about 25 people at its Cleveland store, said Potbelly spokeswoman Ann Aldrich. The company decorates its stores with local artifacts and offers live music at lunchtime to create a “hang out” atmosphere.

 

Potbelly will be part of the storefronts in a parking garage at East Sixth Street and Euclid, where it will be the first occupant in a corner location that has been empty since 2006, when construction of the garage was finished.

 

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20120413/FREE/120419910/0/FRONTPAGE

^Awesome;  I first noticed the sign on (on a glorious drive-thru downtown-- suprisingly lots of people out on a usu dead Sunday).  Yeah, I know some will balk b/c this is a mere sandwich shop and a nat'l chain, but I like Potbelly's food and it finally brings a lively storefront to 515 after, what, 6 years of existence?  This also extends the 4th Street engergy further up Euclid... All good imho.

clvlndr, we already got our griping out of the way weeks ago about this.....  But yeah even though it is a chain, it will be good to see that space active.  I think it is an important space to have activity in and has been empty way too long.   

 

*Just dont forget to give Cleveland Pickle a try first.

Re: Potbelly.  Lots of drywall being delivered and hung.  Shouldn't be too long until they open.  I would guess end of May with they pace they are going. 

this is only my second post, what is the status on the residential tower on top of the parking garage? the company that bought the parking garage 1 or 2 years ago have air rights to build the tower. will it ever happen?

^economics of new construction don't work out right now, but they are getting better

^economics of new construction don't work out right now, but they are getting better

 

Yep. As soon as we run out of old, Class C office buildings to convert, you will see a rents rise faster and stronger demand for new construction. The inventory of Class C buildings ripe for conversion is getting pretty low, with planning coming together for the largest remaining structures. Once those are funded, converted and substantially leased in the next 3-5 years (barring no economic downfalls), you will see a push for new construction and 515 Euclid could be one of the first since it already has the infrastructure in place for it.

^economics of new construction don't work out right now, but they are getting better

 

The inventory of Class C buildings ripe for conversion is getting pretty low, with planning coming together for the largest remaining structures.

 

Are you hinting at something that hasn't yet been announced??

^economics of new construction don't work out right now, but they are getting better

 

The inventory of Class C buildings ripe for conversion is getting pretty low, with planning coming together for the largest remaining structures.

 

Are you hinting at something that hasn't yet been announced??

 

Nah. I'm referring to the Worthington Building, Cleveland Athletic Club and May Company building. I think those are the largest, vacant (or almost entirely vacant) structures both of which have plans for their conversion to housing/hotel. The old Huntington Building is probably considered a Class B office building and despite recent tenant losses is still half-full. I doubt there are any Class C office buildings left downtown that are larger than 100,000 square feet and more than 75 percent vacant. I'm pretty sure the Rockefeller Building, 75 Public Square, Standard Building, Leader Building, Ohio Bell Building, Rose Building, Halle Building, Hanna Building, Keith Building, Superior Building and City Club Building are at least 50 percent full too. Perhaps one or two of those may convert and consolidate office tenants into remaining Class C buildings. But if that's all it is, then it appears the supply of potential conversions is running low.

Are you hinting at something that hasn't yet been announced??

 

I don't think KJP is hinting at anything in particular. Nearly every medium to large class C structure is in some phase of redevelopment. The implication is that at some point, there will be nothing major left to convert, which would make new build more cost effective. The most recent large scale projects in the planning stages:

 

Worthington building in the Warehouse district:

 

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20131020/SUB1/310209974

 

May Company building in Gateway district:

 

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20130901/SUB1/309019968

 

edit: posted too late

there's also 1.3 million square feet of open space in the Huntington bank building that could be converted to apartments, hotels, and office space.

there's also 1.3 million square feet of open space in the Huntington bank building that could be converted to apartments, hotels, and office space.

 

The building isn't empty. There's about 700,000 square feet of open space in the old Huntington Building. Worse, it's spread throughout the building which makes it difficult to convert a portion of the building to other uses. Unless Optima's management firm can get tenants to relocate to concentrate them on certain floors, a conversion of this building won't happen anytime soon.

 

So, to bring this back on topic, that's why new construction downtown -- such as 515 Euclid -- isn't likely to happen for a few more years. But at least the idea is getting warmer.

i have a few question about the tower. is it cancelled or still proposed? and i don't understand what this means, i red this desman.com who owns the garage. it said  "the urban site has dictated on architectural solutions conductive of a downtown office building. the structural framing system is cast-in-place concrete with a combination of glass and cast stone panels as the architectural facade material." also the company has air rights to the building, what exactly does that mean?

Desman was just the architect and engineer for the garage. Harbor Group bought it from AmTrust after they went bankrupt a couple years ago.

 

At the time Harbor said they had no plans to develop the condos themselves but would sell the air rights to anybody interested.

Fleischman was the architect.

Back from the dead!

i have a few question about the tower. is it cancelled or still proposed? and i don't understand what this means, i red this desman.com who owns the garage. it said  "the urban site has dictated on architectural solutions conductive of a downtown office building. the structural framing system is cast-in-place concrete with a combination of glass and cast stone panels as the architectural facade material." also the company has air rights to the building, what exactly does that mean?

 

It means the building was designed so that a tower could be built on top of the garage.  Air rights means that they have the right to build higher than it currently is.  Unfortunately, until there is a financial incentive to build the taller tower, it won't happen.

It means the building was designed so that a tower could be built on top of the garage.  Air rights means that they have the right to build higher than it currently is.  Unfortunately, until there is a financial incentive to build the taller tower, it won't happen.

 

You mean, like having rents high enough to justify building the tower?

 

If so, I think we're there -- at least for building a tower that doesn't require city approvals other than a building permit, demolishing anything, digging holes in the ground,  pouring a foundation and pad, constructing elevator towers and subsurface foundations, relocating and/or constructing utilities, constructing a parking structure, etc.

 

This tower doesn't require all of the usual expenses of building one. For that reason, I can see Stark moving forward with this very soon. And as was stated by others over in the nuCLEus thread, if this building fills up quickly, it will only bolster his case for nuCLEus -- both in terms of the residential component AND the retail component, since there will be more retail customers for nuCLEus at the other end of East 4th.

You mean, like having rents high enough to justify building the tower?

 

If so, I think we're there . . . . This tower doesn't require all of the usual expenses of building one. For that reason, I can see Stark moving forward with this very soon. And as was stated by others over in the nuCLEus thread, if this building fills up quickly, it will only bolster his case for nuCLEus -- both in terms of the residential component AND the retail component, since there will be more retail customers for nuCLEus at the other end of East 4th.

 

Oh, I hope you're right!!! :clap:

 

You mean, like having rents high enough to justify building the tower?

 

If so, I think we're there -- at least for building a tower that doesn't require city approvals other than a building permit, demolishing anything, digging holes in the ground,  pouring a foundation and pad, constructing elevator towers and subsurface foundations, relocating and/or constructing utilities, constructing a parking structure, etc.

 

This tower doesn't require all of the usual expenses of building one. For that reason, I can see Stark moving forward with this very soon. And as was stated by others over in the nuCLEus thread, if this building fills up quickly, it will only bolster his case for nuCLEus -- both in terms of the residential component AND the retail component, since there will be more retail customers for nuCLEus at the other end of East 4th.

 

Just think, the country could have hit a home run adding 15 stories on the new Hilton.  Hmmmm....  :roll:

Just think, the country could have hit a home run adding 15 stories on the new Hilton.  Hmmmm....  :roll:

 

Why would they add 15 more stories on the convention hotel? For what purpose? The county had a narrow scope for this project: to construct a building for a single end user to support the county's investment in the convention center.

Just think, the country could have hit a home run adding 15 stories on the new Hilton.  Hmmmm....  :roll:

 

Why would they add 15 more stories on the convention hotel? For what purpose? The county had a narrow scope for this project: to construct a building for a single end user to support the county's investment in the convention center.

 

I agree the county had a narrow scope and focus, but missed an opportunity for new construction residential.  But here was an opportunity for an ideal "public/private" partnership.  The majority of design and structural costs were paid for via the hotel financing, which could have compensated for the low pricing per SF in the Cleveland market.  An element of this could have been long-term corporate housing to compliment the hotel offering and give the convention center/medmart yet another angle to compete. 

 

 

 

 

How long has Welty Building Co. had an office at 515 Euclid? I just noticed it....

 

http://www.superpages.com/bp/Cleveland-OH/Welty-Cleveland-Group-L2346418044.htm

 

Welty is a major construction firm. Their resume of projects is impressive:

 

http://thinkwelty.com/our-work/?cat=specialty

Their office has been there for a couple of years. I've heard that they are moving down to the flats, though.

Not sure, but I think I recall seeing their Think Welty sign in the window.  Huge Akron firm, that's for sure.  Not real prevalent in Cleveland other than at Metrohealth up until about 7 or 8 years ago when corruption issues hit there. Maybe it was just a way to get their address here. 

Welty is doing Toby Keith's/FEB .

Don't know if this means anything for the project, but I noticed that it is now listed under "in development" on Stark's website.

^Nice find. I suppose it is something we have been expecting. But will it be nuCLEus or 515 that turns the first shovel. And welcome to the forum!

 

Edit...thinking about it more. I wonder if the naming of the Walsh Group as a PM for Arbor may have as much to do with 515 as it does for nuCLEus.

http://www.starkenterprises.com/properties/515-euclid-complex/

 

Just was searching Nucleus for any recent news and found this page on Stark's website about adding 200 apartments on top of the 515 Euclid parking garage. Is there another thread for that garage?

 

Great news. Insider rumors have been discussed on-and-off at the nuCLEus thread. But it's great to actually hear it from the horse's mouth!

 

And like an urban geek, I counted 20 stories added on top of the 9-story garage....

 

Im not sure, I'll wait until they give a year when construction will start. 

 

Wait until what? Until you get excited? I'm excited about a project that began construction a decade ago now has confirmed developer willing to build the apartment tower -- something it never had. The presence of the parking garage foundation, which is already paid for and designed to support a 20-story above, is a huge saver of site prep costs. And now that residential rents have surpassed $2 per square foot, there's an economic justification for building this tower. It's one of the few sites downtown where new residential construction can be built without significant subsidies.

I personally wish this project was condo.  For that location, and the lack of new condo options in recent years, I don't think they'd have much problem getting the needed people to sign up pre-construction.

^There are people on the board with more knowledge of than I of the subject, but my guess that the condo financing situation has not changed must since we exited the recession and lending standards have tightened.  That is, it is very difficult to get financing for condo projects at both the developer level (except in hot markets and where the developer has significant equity) and buyer level without a huge down payment.  I would believe that this is especially true in unproven markets like downtown Cleveland

It's also difficult for home buyers to get loans -- five years after the recession ended.

 

EDIT: BTW, I'm curious as to why after months of hearing rumors Stark "announced" he would seek to build the apartment tower atop 515 Euclid. Did something change? Did he secure "site control" from Harbor Group? Did he get a strong signal from a financier?

 

Reuven Dessler appears to be the key to this. He's the retailer (founder of Solon-based closeout wholesaler The Mazel Co.) and investor who got J-Dek Ltd. paired with Stark. Seven years ago, Dessler joined with Harbor Group that also owns the ex-BP Tower downtown (and 515 Euclid), and Kerry Chelm of Chelm Properties bought $51 million worth of Geis industrial properties. I suspect that Dessler also got Stark working with Harbor Group on exercising the air rights on 515 Euclid.

http://www.starkenterprises.com/properties/515-euclid-complex/

 

Just was searching Nucleus for any recent news and found this page on Stark's website about adding 200 apartments on top of the 515 Euclid parking garage. Is there another thread for that garage?

 

Great news. Insider rumors have been discussed on-and-off at the nuCLEus thread. But it's great to actually hear it from the horse's mouth!

 

And like an urban geek, I counted 20 stories added on top of the 9-story garage....

 

 

And being the analytical geek that I am, the height of the building based on the massing is about 250 - 300 feet. This makes sense with the number of floors that KJP counted.  Not a skyline changer, but good infill adding some density.

 

Once this is under construction, it will grow upward quickly because the foundation is already completed.  I am looking forward to a rendering of it.

Michelle provides more info on 515 Euclid in her "possible high rises" article today:

 

"We've been contacted by the landowners to explore developing it," Ezra Stark, chief operating officer at Stark Enterprises, said in response to questions about the apartment project. He wouldn't discuss any details, adding that the company doesn't have an ownership stake in the garage right now and is merely the leasing agent for the ground-floor retail space along Euclid Avenue.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2015/08/high-rise_apartment_plans_emer.html#incart_river

Good article. Very interesting.

I checked the architect's website to see if they had information about what is the max height the garage and pad could support. Yes, they have that info:

 

http://www.studiorfa.com/515garage

 

515 Garage

 

515 Garage represents six years of continuous design and evaluation.  The primary goal was to provide new retail and parking facilities on Euclid Avenue, with an opportunity to build luxury apartments above.

 

It was determined that concrete would be used for retail floors and steel frame incorporated for residential units.  Soil analysis dictated the maximum of 24 stories using a concrete mat foundation.

 

During the four year period an unbelievable amount of studies were prepared looking at parking, housing and retail development.  Although the apartments were not built plans for every level and unit were developed.

 

 

I checked the architect's website to see if they had information about what is the max height the garage and pad could support. Yes, they have that info:

 

http://www.studiorfa.com/515garage

 

515 Garage

 

515 Garage represents six years of continuous design and evaluation.  The primary goal was to provide new retail and parking facilities on Euclid Avenue, with an opportunity to build luxury apartments above.

 

It was determined that concrete would be used for retail floors and steel frame incorporated for residential units.  Soil analysis dictated the maximum of 24 stories using a concrete mat foundation.

 

During the four year period an unbelievable amount of studies were prepared looking at parking, housing and retail development.  Although the apartments were not built plans for every level and unit were developed.

 

 

 

This is actually pretty vague.  Is it 24 stories including the garage?  24 stories on top of the garage?  Or, 240 feet total as many people count a story as 10 feet.

 

And it seems unusal to build the residential from steel instead of concrete when the garage is already concrete and most residential high rises are built from concrete.

I'm with you on the possibility of Start partnering to do the multifamily but the Welty move was just basic math.  They signed a lease on the Euclid space back when it was all tore up with the Health line construction and got a smoking deal.  Their lease was up and landlord wanted a much higher rate.  Thus why they moved to less glamorous digs over at old Sammy's space.

 

Although the furniture store followed them. I have to wonder if they were getting out of the way of an imminent apartment tower construction project.