I am pleasantly surprised with the height of the building as it is taller than I expected.  Assuming that Nucleus will get built, it will be the 17th tallest building when completed.

 

But, I am not thrilled with the design.  It clashes with the glassy garage.  I was hoping it would be a glassy building.  And I don't like the odd window pattern either.

 

28.5 stories?  A half a story?

I like it.  I'm hoping the graduated facade colors will in reality appear more dramatic than what we can see in the renderings.  Also interesting how it somewhat relates to Nucleus via the checkerboard effect, but also to 200 PS via color.

Isn't the 9 taller than this?

 

Yes, by about forty feet.

Wonderful news to see this moving forward! I really like the gradual change in color, as well as the dramatic change in material between the garage and tower and how they tie into that with the glass break on the 21st floor. This should also fill in a nice hole in the skyline :)

I wonder if moving from a darker color at he bottom up to a lighter color at the top will take some effect of the height away?  Will the dark color dominate and almost mask the building height making it look like a shorter structure?

The clash with the glass facade bothers me too much. Also it doesn't really stand out with the shape of the building. I appreciate the uneven look of it just isn't as eye catching as the garage itself. Back to the drawing board, this project has been sitting dormant too long for just an okay design.

 

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Hopefully this is a very quick approval and we get a crane downtown in the fall! Fingers crossed that this moves along at a quick pace.

I'm holding judgement on the color scheme until more detailed renderings are released, but I do like how the color / material tie ins on the garage columns creates an effect that looks like the building is floating above the base. 

Looking back 14 months ago....

 

It means the building was designed so that a tower could be built on top of the garage.  Air rights means that they have the right to build higher than it currently is.  Unfortunately, until there is a financial incentive to build the taller tower, it won't happen.

 

You mean, like having rents high enough to justify building the tower?

 

If so, I think we're there -- at least for building a tower that doesn't require city approvals other than a building permit, demolishing anything, digging holes in the ground,  pouring a foundation and pad, constructing elevator towers and subsurface foundations, relocating and/or constructing utilities, constructing a parking structure, etc.

 

This tower doesn't require all of the usual expenses of building one. For that reason, I can see Stark moving forward with this very soon. And as was stated by others over in the nuCLEus thread, if this building fills up quickly, it will only bolster his case for nuCLEus -- both in terms of the residential component AND the retail component, since there will be more retail customers for nuCLEus at the other end of East 4th.

Thanks for posting that KJP.  I think I may have been the one that stated this as being the test for nucleus.  I think Stark is testing the market with a "new construction" project, and also the inner working of the city ordinances with, in relative terms, a smaller 515 project.  I also don't think he is being very vocal with 515 in efforts to not steer the attention away from nucleus. 

I also don't think he is being very vocal with 515 in efforts to not steer the attention away from nucleus.

 

Excellent point.  Good to see Stark is serious about moving forward for both of these projects.

Michelle's article on "The Beacon"

 

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2016/07/first_look_beacon_apartment_to.html

^From Michelle's piece:

 

The garage would be modified with metal cladding, to match the new construction.

 

So the tower will match the base. I sort of like the current garage facade, so not sure how much I like this. No matter though, if Stark can actually break ground (air?) on this, will be a great addition. I love love love seeing serious density added to the heart of the heart.

Given Stark's involvement, do you think the 515 garage could serve as a blueprint (not a literal blueprint) for nuCLEus? Build the garage and street level retail (including the "laneway") and then years down the road build the tower? This might be more appropriate to post in the nuCLEus thread, but the similarities got me thinking...

Well, 190 apartments will definitely help the empty storefronts on East 6th between Euclid and Superior.

 

I like this a lot. Completely different then what we have downtown already

 

Buildings rarely look like they do in initial renderings; sometimes better - sometimes not.

 

 

Here is the rendering cropped and color corrected

That and the rehab across the street will definitely help fill the void of East 6th. There is decent foot traffic during the day, but the evenings and nights are completely different.

I'm mixed. It's something different for Cleveland, design wise, but I was hoping for more glass and less brown and beige in our skyline. The height is nice though.

Given Stark's involvement, do you think the 515 garage could serve as a blueprint (not a literal blueprint) for nuCLEus? Build the garage and street level retail (including the "laneway") and then years down the road build the tower? This might be more appropriate to post in the nuCLEus thread, but the similarities got me thinking...

As Michelle's article notes, the garage was built by another company and bought for pennies on the dollar out of bankruptcy.  That's what makes this new construction cost effective.  The same cost savings would not be had by Stark building a Nucleus garage then building on top of it later (unless Stark's plan is to go bankrupt, be forced to sell the garage for cheap, and have a different developer build on top of it).  So I doubt the same dynamic would apply to Nucleus.

Man I am excited for E6th St. With this development and the Garfield across the street, also the Leader building and hopefully the eventual development of the Baker bldg. things are definitely looking good for the future of that artery.  Also the 5/3 building has added more tenants and is undergoing some renovations.

I think I'm gonna be liking the skyline a lot more in a few years! :)

 

 

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Edited July 15, 20204 yr by SixthCity

ASPhotoman, excellent job with that render.

now lets picture that fourth quadrant on public square filled in.  that's a big boy skyline.

now lets picture that fourth quadrant on public square filled in.  that's a big boy skyline.

 

And the Weston tower would be visible from this view too I think

now lets picture that fourth quadrant on public square filled in.  that's a big boy skyline.

 

And the Weston tower would be visible from this view too I think

 

It would be from this perspective, but barely from the ground. Okay sorry to get everyone off topic! Oooh yeah they're gonna finally build this thing!

 

I don't mind the design. The way I see it's getting more people living downtown. I've seen some ugly architecture in even places like NYC. I'm glad 515 goes white at the top. Especially with all the other brick buildings around it. At least the white will be creeping over all the other buildings in the skyline, and red be more hidden from afar.

I like it.  I'm hoping the graduated facade colors will in reality appear more dramatic than what we can see in the renderings.  Also interesting how it somewhat relates to Nucleus via the checkerboard effect, but also to 200 PS via color.

 

I like it as well. I think the graduated color scheme moving from dark at the bottom to light at the top will create both a sense of vertical movement and visual drama. Imagine the gradually lighter and warmer colors of the top floors, washed with a soft light, seen against the cool blues and purples of the night sky.

Looking at that rendering of 515 it gave me a more optimistic outlook on the project. It allowed me to have a much more easier understanding of it.

The Fat Fish Blue parking garage was originally built to support an additional structure on top right? Maybe I just made that up, because i don't know when/where I heard that. If true though, I wonder how many additional floors. A tower in that location would directly fill the gap to the right of BP building in ASPhotoman's rendering. Also props on visual, ASPhotoman.

The Fat Fish Blue parking garage was originally built to support an additional structure on top right? Maybe I just made that up, because i don't know when/where I heard that. If true though, I wonder how many additional floors. A tower in that location would directly fill the gap to the right of BP building in ASPhotoman's rendering. Also props on visual, ASPhotoman.

 

Never heard that before. That parking garage replaced the old Bailey's Department Store and was built to serve the May Co. Department Store.

The Fat Fish Blue parking garage was originally built to support an additional structure on top right? Maybe I just made that up, because i don't know when/where I heard that.

 

A long time ago I heard that the Cowell and Hubbard building (E 13th and Euclid) was curtailed during construction and the existing foundation could support up to 20 stories. I don't know if this rumor? legend? includes the adjacent 2-story building or not. 

A long time ago I heard that the Cowell and Hubbard building (E 13th and Euclid) was curtailed during construction and the existing foundation could support up to 20 stories. I don't know if this rumor? legend? includes the adjacent 2-story building or not. 

 

I'm not sure if the history of the building be curtailed during construction is correct, but it was set-up for additional floors to be added.

The Fat Fish Blue parking garage was originally built to support an additional structure on top right? Maybe I just made that up, because i don't know when/where I heard that. If true though, I wonder how many additional floors. A tower in that location would directly fill the gap to the right of BP building in ASPhotoman's rendering. Also props on visual, ASPhotoman.

Never heard that before. That parking garage replaced the old Bailey's Department Store and was built to serve the May Co. Department Store.

 

I never heard that, either, and would be surprised if it were true.  That garage is old and I can't imagine planners were thinking of building towers on parking garages back then, especially residential towers.  I never saw any plans for development of an office tower at that site either.

The Fat Fish Blue parking garage was originally built to support an additional structure on top right? Maybe I just made that up, because i don't know when/where I heard that. If true though, I wonder how many additional floors. A tower in that location would directly fill the gap to the right of BP building in ASPhotoman's rendering. Also props on visual, ASPhotoman.

Never heard that before. That parking garage replaced the old Bailey's Department Store and was built to serve the May Co. Department Store.

 

I never heard that, either, and would be surprised if it were true.  That garage is old and I can't imagine planners were thinking of building towers on parking garages back then, especially residential towers.  I never saw any plans for development of an office tower at that site either.

 

I think putting a tower on top of the parking former May Co. garage is a no go proposition. The structure was built sometime in the early/mid 70's, so it is already 40 plus years old. If a new development was proposed for the site, the developer would probably tear down the current garage and build from the ground up.

 

Now, getting back to the 515 Euclid, I think the design looks very handsome, is going to be a good looking building, and fit very well into the Cleveland skyline.

I like the design. I just hope that soon one of these tower proposals doesn't just have a flat top. Between this, NuCLEus, and the Weston tower(s), a lot of flat-topped buildings have been proposed and we already have a lot of those in Cleveland. Even the new Hilton, while not technically flat, looks flat from a distance.

Ah-ha. "May's Parkade", built 1964. I thought it was constructed much later than that. I then seriously doubt my earlier statement . I hardy think a company hinged on a declining industry model would be thinking much past automobiles during that time.

 

Sorry for the miss-info! Back to 515!

 

A long time ago I heard that the Cowell and Hubbard building (E 13th and Euclid) was curtailed during construction and the existing foundation could support up to 20 stories. I don't know if this rumor? legend? includes the adjacent 2-story building or not. 

 

Interesting.

I am wondering how construction would work. Would the garage and the other tenants have to close? Would the perimeter of the building need to be fenced off?  Also construction time for a 28 story Tower from foundation up would usually be about 24 months+,  wonder if construction time would be cut in half. hmmm...

 

Michelle's follow-up article answers my questions including construction timeline of about 16 months.

 

Stark hopes to keep most of the 524-space garage open during construction. The garage was designed with an interior cutout that can accommodate a crane. It's likely that Stark will be able to put construction equipment there, minimizing disruption on the surrounding streets. The top two floors of the garage could function as a staging area for materials.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2016/07/downtown_cleveland_apartment_h.html#incart_2box

Cool design!  Say what you will about the tenets of brown and beige but at least it's a color scheme.  It's also warm and earthy, and it helps glassy highlights like the new Hilton stand out.

Regarding the metal finish, I agree with Ms. Van der Wiel's comment:

 

"I like the pattern quite a bit," said Jodi van der Wiel, an architect who sits on the committee. "I think it's just the imagery is not doing it justice."

"I don't find this particularly iconic,"

 

I'm not even sure what this really means, and wish we could have a moratorium on architects thinking this is a valid criticism. Especially of a residential building.  If you want to say a museum, or some other civic institution should be iconic, fine.  But it is too nebulous a critique to be a valid part of a governmental approval process.

This may be a first, but I totally agree with X. The goal of architecture should not be to create something "iconic." I'm so sick of all these buzz works being strewn around everywhere: epic, iconic, authentic, real, makers. I highly doubt the designers at NADDAAA give a tinkers damn whether the building is iconic or not. Says a lot about Bialosky if he thinks they do.

"I don't find this particularly iconic,"

 

 

I'll bet he hates 99% of Toronto high-rises!

Hmmm.  Not sure how to interpret this comment from Fred Geis.  Is he doubting the success/feasibility of this project?

 

"If you've got the guts to build a new apartment building in the city of Cleveland, God bless you"

^ He's a negative Nancy. Now when those apartments fill up and are a major success, I expect to see him announce a project soon after. ??

 

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I think he's just commenting on the difficulty thus far of getting high rise residential financed downtown. Many cities are experiencing a high rise residential boom. I was just in Nashville and even there there are areas with many cranes in the sky. We are getting there... This project is very exciting for that reason! Get it built!

 

 

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Sounds to me like he's misreading the market, with equal dashes of cynicism and outdated anti-urban thinking.  Isn't Geis on the planning commission now? 

Sounds to me like he's misreading the market, with equal dashes of cynicism and outdated anti-urban thinking.  Isn't Geis on the planning commission now?

"If you've got the guts to build a new apartment building in the city of Cleveland, God bless you," said Fred Geis, a developer who sits on the commission.

 

Cynical, perhaps. Antiurban is a stretch for this out of context quote.  This would be the first new apartment building downtown since the 1970s. If he's misreading the market, EVERYONE is misreading the market. 

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Edited July 15, 20204 yr by SixthCity

Back again for more design-review....

 

Downtown/Flats

Design Review Agenda

 

Thursday September 15th

, 2016 DRAFT

Cleveland City Hall

Room 514

Design Review:

*Schematic Design Approval

1. Project: DF2016-054: The Beacon – 515 Euclid Avenue Residential Tower

Project Address: 515 Euclid Avenue

Project Representative: Rebecca Hegyes, Stark Enterprises; Katherine Faulknew, NADAAA;

Joshua Haney, Westlake Reed Leskosky;

 

*Denotes agenda item will also appear before the Cleveland City Planning Commission the following

day, Friday, September 16th, 2016.