Posted April 9, 200421 yr For what it's worth...from today's Enquirer: Hamilton Co. shrinks by 2.6% Overall area grows as suburbs swell By Ken Alltucker The Cincinnati Enquirer Greater Cincinnati's relentless march to the suburbs shows little sign of slowing, new Census population estimates show. Estimates released Thursday conclude that Hamilton County lost 2.6 percent of its population from April 2000 to July 2003 - a faster decline than all but tech-wrecked San Francisco among the nation's 100 largest counties. But Hamilton County's population loss was more than offset by fast suburban growth that led the 15-county Greater Cincinnati region to increase its population by nearly 2 percent to 2,047,333. E-mail [email protected]
April 9, 200421 yr Interesting. Doesn't urban renewal play a part such as tearing down projects that house thousands of people and displacing them? From what I see Hamilton Co has an incredible healthy housing stock on the East side, I am not sure about the west side but in places like Mt. Lookout, Tusculum, Indian Hill, Hyde Park, Mt. Adams, Symmes, Sycamore, Montgomery, etc... things seem to look very healthy and I would be surprised to hear of population losses there. Another thing. People don't pay property (in a sense), homeowners do so if 2 people live in a home vs 5, the city/county is still getting the same property taxes.
April 9, 200421 yr Most of the displaced from urban renewal projects stay in the county though, either being pushed out to nearby neighborhoods or--through Section 8 vouchers--out into the inner ring suburbs. A lot of areas near me have seen increasing amounts of Section 8 folks who used to live in projects which no longer exist. In other words, these folks aren't moving to West Chester, etc. The majority of the out-migration is young families and young people in general. As for the quality of housing, there is good and bad everywhere. People are very quick to leave and to get a newly built home. I always enjoy hearing the "New housing starts" statistics. They almost always outstrip the increase in population. What does that mean? More vacant and abandoned buildings! YAY!
April 9, 200421 yr Warren, Boone growth leaders By Luke Saladin Post staff reporter Despite major declines in the region's core county, two of Greater Cincinnati's suburban counties -- one in Northern Kentucky, the other north of Cincinnati -- are among the 100 fastest growing counties in the nation, according to U.S. Census data released today. Between April 1, 2000, and June 1, 2003, Warren County in Ohio was the 52nd fastest growing county in the nation by percentage, growing 14.7 percent to 181,743 in that period. During the same period, Northern Kentucky's Boone County grew by 13 percent from 85,991 to 97,139. That increase ranked 80th in the nation.
April 9, 200421 yr I guess everyone is trying to move out of the high populationg counties to sprawlville.
April 9, 200421 yr I live in Hamilton County. On the West side even. And I am very surprised to see that the county is losing population. There are so many new homes being built just west of me that I can't even fathom a population loss from this part of the county. The housing stock is very good over in the western side of the county as well as the eastern side. I think the real pop. loss comes from the city itself, places like Price Hill and OTR are the most likely areas to suffer a population loss, but I am just speculating.
April 9, 200421 yr Hey my license plates have a 31 too! I moved here in 2003, I wonder if I was recorded (how do they calculate these stats anyway)? The emigration pattern is probably similar to that around the country City->Inner 'burbs->outer burbs. There is a LOT of vacant rental property in the city, even in neighborhoods like Mt. Adams. And i know Lower Price Hill has been having some problems with HomeVestors and other rent-to-own housing schemes buying out long-time residents (who probably take off to the burbs).
April 10, 200421 yr Well, I didn't mean that everyone in the forum doesn't live in Hamilton Co...thank you guys for the backup. Hydrobond...I forget where you live. I'm a Westsider too. People forget that Price Hill was once one of the exclusive neighborhoods of the city, and a lot of the remaining structures show it. Most of the deteriorating housing stock is in the Mill Creek valley, whether its in the Fairmounts, Camp Washington, the West End, Northside, Winton Place, St. Bernard blah blah blah. But nothing in any of those places is a lost cause. I just noticed that in Camp Washington today the corner of Colerain and Hopple is moving and there's a "Hopple Crossing" or something going on just east of Camp Washington Chili that's being headed by a Fifth Third branch. P.S. There's vacant, rental properties everywhere. Even in the "best" neighborhoods, a lot of places are lease-option or straight rental. It's just the reality. With a paucity of affordable housing, it's the way a lot of people have to live. P.P.S. The emigration patterns tend to be similar to what you said, kendall, but most people skip the "inner burbs" portion if they can. The inner burbs are being increasingly populated by Section 8 folks and the elderly. Dotted within are a few young, newly married couples. The local business districts in such areas show as much.
April 10, 200421 yr Where did the Section 8 and elderly residents of the inner burbs used to live? Who used to live in their current dwellings and where do they live now? Surely some people skip them if they can... Thank goodness the situation isn't as bad as it is in Metro Detroit... Good lord...
April 10, 200421 yr Many of these residents lived in public housing projects. Now there has been a concerted effort to decentralize poverty (a good thing). So out goes Laurel Homes and Lincoln Park, Huntington Meadows was emptied out and will be razed, and English Woods is in its first death throes. Many of these folks take up lease options in marginal properties. I know of some of these properties because my parents deal in them. The people who used to live in the old dwellings? Who knows. Some got together enough that they could leave for a better place, some got foreclosed, some died, some are in jail. We're talking about areas with lower rates of homeownership and high turnover here. People don't stay long, and they certainly don't stay long enough to invest in a property. Since I'm rambling and I'm not too sure I actually made a point, I'll shut up now.
April 10, 200421 yr Well, I'm not helping any, as I live in Hamilton County but I'm leaving in May....
April 11, 200421 yr I am 5 miles from Hamilton Co. Damn I guess I am not helping, sorry :( The Fields-Ertel shopping area is partly in Hamilton Co. The Best Buy in the Warren Co side is .5% lower in sales tax than the Circuit City across the street as it is in Hamilton Co. Is Tri-County in Hamilton Co? Where does Butler Co start?
April 11, 200421 yr Well, I guess you could say that Tri-County is in Hamilton, Butler, and Warren counties... hence the name. But if you just mean the mall, then I believe it is actually in Hamilton county. I think Butler starts not even 200 yards north of the mall.
April 11, 200421 yr Actually, I looked it up. Looks like Crescentville Rd is the county line. Here you go: http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?country=US&countryid=250&addtohistory=&address=princeton+pike+at+kemper+road&city=cincinnati&state=oh&zipcode=&submit=Get+Map
April 12, 200421 yr It's actually located both in Forest Park (Hamilton) and in Fairfield (Butler). Butler Co. starts 1/4-1/2 mile north of I-275.
April 12, 200421 yr It is in the middle? Uh, how does that work? So do taxes flux from one side of the mall to the other? The entire mall has to be in one county, no?
April 13, 200421 yr Grasscat, I live on Cleves Warsaw around the Wester Hills Country Club. The specific development I was talking to is the 74-275 interchange, the 74-Harrison interchange and the surrounding areas. It seems that everywhere you look there is a new subdivision or a new apartment building going up around there. Although, I guess it helps that a Meijer, Kohls and a bunch of other big chain stores just opened in that immediate area. I remember seeing something from ssp.com that said the city had extended sewers into that area, so that may also have effected the development as well.
April 13, 200421 yr Monte...I'm not sure how that works, or what the tax structure is. I'm sure there is some sort of legal agreement that works that out. hydrobond...yeah, I'm surprised by the Harrison/Rybolt area too. That area is booming, and the surrounding hilltops are being filled with cul-de-sacs. They are already facing growth issues.
November 28, 200420 yr But let's not get ahead of ourselves. There are a lot of contradictions. From the 11/28/04 Enquirer: Hamilton Co. population may rebound Report sees end to exodus By Cindi Andrews Enquirer staff writer Hamilton County's population decline should end and even reverse course by 2014, according to a new analysis by county planning officials. "Hamilton County has a lot of advantages compared to the rest of the nation, such as access to labor, access to materials," according to Ron Miller, director of the county Regional Planning Commission. The projection developed by Regional Economic Model Inc. shows population falling an additional 8 percent - to 775,871 - between nowand 2010, and then beginning to climb by 2014. http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041128/NEWS01/411280438/1077/NEWS01
November 28, 200420 yr The only way Hamilton County will grow is if the sprawl stops. The "experts" predict this same thing for Cuyahoga county too. In neither case will a population increase happen, when land is cheaper and more abundant a few more miles out.
November 29, 200420 yr I can think of two things that would bring people back to Hamilton Co. in a hurry: crushing gas prices and oppressive home interest rates, so that people could only afford cheaper houses and less driving. But of course there are better ways to slow sprawl, like excellent transit and a strong core. Both of which require a public mindset I'm not sure exists around here.
November 30, 200420 yr I love Hamilton Co. I would love to live there but the places I want to live are so damn pricey. Mt. Lookout, Tusculum, Mt. Adams, Hyde Park are some of the areas I would love to live with a family. The homes there are so expensive, or so small. I think my best option is when my daughter has graduated. I would seriously consider livinging in Downtown, Lytle Place or City West. Oakley is another neighborhood I would seriously look at that offers more down to earth prices but lately prices in Oakley have been jumping because of the Hyde Park spill over.
November 30, 200420 yr I've been wondering for years now how Madisonville can possibly do anything but become the next Oakley - I mean, it's surrounded by Oakley, Mariemont and Indian Hill...with the Millworks going in, Hyde Park Near coming to encompass most of East Walnut Hills in the MLS listings (does Oakley even exist in those things anymore?), and housing stock that tops out at $150K when I just searched it on cincymls.com (some new construction tops that, but that's the highest list price for an existing single family), it doesn't seem to me like there's anywhere it can go but up...but then, I've said the same thing for probably four or five years now...
November 30, 200420 yr ^ I could see that happening. Being surrounded by Oakley, Hyde Park, Madeira, Indian Hill and Mariemont helps.
June 30, 200519 yr These articles appeared in the 6/30/05 Cincinnati Enquirer: PHOTO: New homes in the Villages of Daybreak in Bond Hill. The city's focus on home ownership has not stemmed steady population loss, though close-in suburbs are also losing people. The Enquirer/Tony Jones Can next mayor halt exodus? Census: Residents fleeing city at a rate of 11 a day By Gregory Korte Enquirer staff writer Since the 2000 Census, Cincinnati has lost population faster than any major American city except Detroit, according to census estimates released today. The U.S. Census Bureau estimates the city's population, as of a year ago, at 314,514. That's 4,031 less than in 2003 - a net loss of about 11 people a day. The city's declining population is likely to be a defining theme of the 2005 campaign for Cincinnati mayor, whose field will take shape today after a 4 p.m. deadline for filing nominating petitions. http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050630/NEWS01/506300356/1056/rss02 PHOTO: Volunteer Saunders McCord sorts applications for zoning certificates Wednesday at the Hamilton Township administration building. The Warren County locality is the fastest-growing township in Greater Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky for 2000-04, according to the Census. Enquirer photos by Glenn Hartong Suburbs moving way out Populations along city's outer ring begin to thin By Cindi Andrews Enquirer staff writer Cincinnati's older, first-ring suburbs are among the fastest-fading communities in Ohio, according to U.S. Census data being released today. The Queen City itself also continues to slough more than 1 percent of its population a year, while rural townships in Warren and Butler counties are posting Southwest Ohio's biggest gains in the July 2004 Census estimates. MULTIMEDIA • Population shifts in our area (PDF) • Biggest losers and gainers in SW Ohio (PDF) http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050630/NEWS01/506300353/1056/rss02 More census breakdowns View results for all major cities in the country, and more state results, by clicking on the links below: • Population change estimates: Incorporated Places Over 100,000 • Population estimates: Incorporated Places Over 100,000 • Population estimates: Incorporated Places in Ohio • Population estimates: Incorporated Places in Kentucky • Population estimates: Minor Civil Divisions in Ohio Source: U.S. Census Bureau For even more data, including other states, go to www.census.gov. http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050630/NEWS01/306300002/1077/news01 Also check out these links: Hamilton Twp. is the fastest growing 'Rural' N.Ky. pulls 'em in
June 30, 200519 yr ^Hamilton County Planning Director Ron Miller said most of the county's communities are losing population because fewer people are sharing living quarters, not because the number of occupied houses, condos and apartments is dropping. The annual Census estimates don't include details on the number and size of households, but the county actually gained 8,000 households - a 2.3 percent increase - between 1990 and 2000, he said. The quote that caught my interest the most. Deer Park, where I reside, is loosing pop, but I haven't noticed any vacant houses, so houshold sizes are decreasing. Larger families were raised in smaller houses than today.
June 30, 200519 yr ^interesting points. i have seen a lot of for rent signs in front of houses on the west side though
June 30, 200519 yr The average number of people per house is dropping across the board. If your neighborhood doesn't have any new construction, your population is probably dropping.
June 30, 200519 yr ^Hamilton County Planning Director Ron Miller said most of the county's communities are losing population because fewer people are sharing living quarters, not because the number of occupied houses, condos and apartments is dropping. The annual Census estimates don't include details on the number and size of households, but the county actually gained 8,000 households - a 2.3 percent increase - between 1990 and 2000, he said. The quote that caught my interest the most. Deer Park, where I reside, is loosing pop, but I haven't noticed any vacant houses, so houshold sizes are decreasing. Larger families were raised in smaller houses than today. I live in Silverton and on my street there is 3 homes that are vacant but they have not been occupied for years...mainly renters in and out. How ever if i go down woodford or montgomery road i see a ton of available apartments and houses for sale..
June 30, 200519 yr ....In Northern Kentucky, the sharpest growth was in the Campbell County town of Cold Spring, up 31 percent in four years to 4,992. The largest Northern Kentucky city, Covington, stayed relatively flat, at 43,010.... What I find interesting is that Covington is dropping the way the older inner ring areas on the Ohio side are. One would expect the same phenomenon to be occuring in Convington and Newport as is occriing in places like Elmwood Place and St Bernard.
June 30, 200519 yr I can't figure St. Bernard out. All of that industrial tax cash and yet they're constantly in fiscal trouble.
July 2, 200519 yr I don't know if anyone has checked this out yet, but the HCRPC has a bunch of 2004 county, township, and city/village data for the region in the data center portion of their website: http://www.hamilton-co.org/hcrpc/data/default.asp
July 6, 200519 yr From the 7/6/05 Kentucky Post: Worrisome numbers It's hardly a secret that Cincinnati, along with most other large Midwestern cities, has been losing population of late. Still, the report that came out of the U.S. Census Bureau the other day felt like a punch to the kidneys. It said that Cincinnati lost 5.2 percent of its population - 17,131 men, women and children - between April 1, 2000 and July 1, 2004. It was the second-worst percentage loss of any city in the nation. Only Detroit, which lost 51,072 people, or 5.4 percent, fared worse. http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050705/NEWS02/507050361/1011/RSS02
July 7, 200519 yr Here is an editorial from the 7/7/05 Enquirer: People leave cities because they want to Your voice: Jacob Plahovinsak There has been much discussion concerning the continued loss of population by the city of Cincinnati. Several mayoral candidates have expressed opinions on how they would address the continued downward spiral, from focusing on law and order to improving the housing stock for the working middle class to improving the educational system. One candidate blames the outward migration as "decades of failed government." There are many reasons for the population loss characterized as "11 people leaving every day." While the overall statistics appear to be bleak for Cincinnati, other cities are experiencing the same trends. http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050707/EDIT02/507070319
July 16, 200519 yr ^Hamilton County Planning Director Ron Miller said most of the county's communities are losing population because fewer people are sharing living quarters, not because the number of occupied houses, condos and apartments is dropping. The annual Census estimates don't include details on the number and size of households, but the county actually gained 8,000 households - a 2.3 percent increase - between 1990 and 2000, he said. The quote that caught my interest the most. Deer Park, where I reside, is loosing pop, but I haven't noticed any vacant houses, so houshold sizes are decreasing. Larger families were raised in smaller houses than today. I live in Silverton and on my street there is 3 homes that are vacant but they have not been occupied for years...mainly renters in and out. How ever if i go down woodford or montgomery road i see a ton of available apartments and houses for sale.. Silverton maybe a different animal, and rentals have been hurting for years due to the low mortgage rates. Silverton has a lot of rentals, I think. I saw signs for a new subdivision up the hill from Stewart road, near Ken Arbre, any info?
July 16, 200519 yr ^ oh off Euclid? I think Madeira starts there. I haven't been back that way in a very long long time.
July 16, 200519 yr Maybe parts of Cincinnati (and especially the nearby Kentucky suburbs) are losing population because there's a transition to a more business community rather than a residential one.
July 21, 200519 yr This article kind of gets at the "smaller household sizes" argument. From the 7/21/05 Enquirer: CHART: Estimated number of housing units in region More homes, but fewer people Hamilton Co. numbers reflect household shift By Steve Kemme Enquirer staff writer While the number of Hamilton County residents has declined, the number of homes has increased, according to U.S. Census Bureau figures released today. Hamilton County's housing units, which include houses, apartments and condominiums, climbed by 1.9 percent - from 373,393 to 380,585 - between April 2000 to July 2004. During that same period, the county's population dropped by 3.6 percent to 814,611. http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050721/NEWS01/507210346/1056/rss02
September 17, 200519 yr I don't know if any of you caught this in the 9/14/05 CityBeat, but it's worth talking about: All The News That Fits Guess Who's Not Coming By Gregory Flannery Hyperconscious of its image, Cincinnati gloms onto magazine surveys enumerating its ranking among the country's most livable cities, the best cities for singles and other faux-statistical indicators of greatness. But while studies showing the city and Hamilton County losing population have become fodder for political candidates, jealously pointing to the building boom in nearby West Chester, the larger reality appears to be even worse. A study by demographic researcher Gary Wright finds the entire Cincinnati-Middletown metropolitan statistical area (MSA) -- a 15-county region of Ohio, Kentucky and Indiana -- exhibiting signs of decline. http://www.citybeat.com/current/allthenews.shtml
September 18, 200519 yr No surprise there. Surely nearly all of Ohio is experiencing net out-of-region migration. In fact, I can't think of a good canidate for a county that would have a net in-migration that is anything more than piddling.
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