I would look to age distribution statistics first...

Entice 'critical mass' to live downtown

BY RICH LUFTIG

 

The current news about Cincinnati hemorrhaging people to other communities should not be surprising. A recent article published by the Cincinnati Historical Society states that in the 1960s cities such as Cincinnati, St. Louis, Philadelphia and Pittsburgh made calculated decisions away from downtowns as livable places to downtowns as attractions for suburbanites.

 

Urban planning research makes clear recommendations on how to save cities. Planners must simultaneously envision downtowns as places to live and visit. Other city neighborhoods must become viable places to reside. The key variable is "critical mass," getting enough people on the streets and patronizing businesses.

 

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060708/EDIT02/607080372/1090/EDIT

Downtown Cincy is on the upswing

David Ginsburg

 

As a partner with hundreds of individuals, businesses and civic organizations who are working for downtown progress every day, Downtown Cincinnati Inc. wants to provide a downtown perspective on the U.S. Census Bureau estimates making local headlines.

 

Importantly, the recent estimate released by the Census Bureau is not surprising. In fact, the reported 2000-05 population decline for the city of Cincinnati is trend data that inspired local leadership to take a hard look in the mirror more than five years ago and proceed with many of the major initiatives that are currently under way.

 

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060702/EDIT02/607020304/1021/EDIT

History helps explain Cincinnati's population drop

 

By Dan Hurley

Post columnist

 

 

Two weeks ago the U.S. Census Bureau issued a report about demographic shifts over the past five years in the cities with populations over 100,000. Cincinnati came out at the bottom, number 254, with a loss of an estimated 22,555 residents, 6.8 percent of its population.

 

It never feels good to be at the bottom of this kind of list, but even a cursory glance at the total table quickly reveals that Cincinnati is part of two long-established trends - the shift of population from the Northeast to the states of the South and Southwest, and from the center cities to the suburbs.

 

It may be popular to think that city leaders in the past were wise and that current leaders are bunglers, but the city's fate, in good times and bad, has always been tied to larger trends, which defined the limits within which human decision-making mattered.

 

http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060707/LIFE/607070343/1005

"Remember, it is not just central cities, but urbanized counties - locally Hamilton, Kenton and Campbell - that are losing population."

 

Kenton County is not losing population: 

2000 - 151,464 2005 - 153,665

just received this ...

 

Dear Urbanists,

 

Now that the hyperventilating over Cincinnati’s latest population loss figures has died down a bit, it’s time for Urbanists to review the facts, figure out what they mean, and redouble our efforts to reinvent Cincinnati as one of America’s premier places to live.

 

To review quickly, the Census Bureau found that Cincinnati lost 6.8% of its population between 2000 and 2005—the fastest population loss of any major American city.  In fact, the City of Cincinnati has lost about a third of its population since 1970.

 

At the same time, our principal “competitor” cities in the region gained population, although modestly.  Lexington-Fayette County gained 2.9%, bringing its population to 268,080; Louisville-Jefferson County gained 1% to 556,429; Columbus saw its population increase by 2.6% to a whopping 730,657; and Indianapolis grew by 0.3% and, with a current population of 784,118, is larger even than Columbus.

 

Since 2001, when we first started articulating basic Urbanist principles, we’ve emphasized a few key points:

• That “demographics are destiny.”  We mean by this that cities live or die based on whether or not people want to live in them.  Consequently, Cincinnati’s demographic decline isn’t just one big issue among others—it’s the most important issue confronting the city by orders of magnitude.  Indeed, most of the other issues are symptoms of the underlying demographic decline.

• That other old cities have stopped their population losses, or even gained population, because they’ve succeeded in attracting what is, in effect, a new middle class made up of young professionals, empty nesters, artists and creative people, gays, and immigrants.

• That “cities of choice” are made up of “neighborhoods of choice” – places with good amenities and strong identities.  In simple terms, cities are brought back to life one neighborhood at a time (including downtown neighborhoods).

• That it’s possible to market city living, especially in a city like Cincinnati with formidable arts and culture assets, historic neighborhoods with charming 19th and early 20th century architecture, hillside views and ample parks and green spaces.  One Cincinnati resident, when asked recently by a newspaper reporter if he would join his neighbors and move to the suburbs, stoutly maintained that he would do no such thing.  “Why would I trade a charming, historic neighborhood like this for a strip mall and an Appleby’s,” he said.  Many people currently living in the anonymous suburbs share his view and can be reached by an effective campaign that markets the pleasures and satisfactions of the urban lifestyle.

 

To best fight for the future of this marvelous, historic city, we must promote practical public policies based on Urbanist principles.  Properly applied, the following policies could help reverse the demographic slide of the last four decades:

1. Safe and Clean.  If we don’t get safe and clean right, we won’t be able to get anything else right.  People won’t move into a historic neighborhood if it means putting their lives and property in constant danger or tolerating filthy sidewalks, derelict parks, and crumbling streets.  The city’s budget, beleaguered as it is, must emphasize safety and cleanliness.  Additionally, we should give hearty support to creative proposals like using Sheriff’s deputies to patrol Over-the-Rhine and other key neighborhoods, designating “no tolerance for crime” zones around our key cultural amenities, and transferring more desk-bound police officers to neighborhood walking patrols.

2. Neighborhoods of Choice.  The City of Cincinnati and local foundations must help each neighborhood in the city develop and implement a concrete, practical, citizen-based marketing plan that “sells” the neighborhood based on its unique assets and identity.  These plans need to be based on sound market analysis and include strategies to improve the housing product, civic assets (like parks and walkable districts) and consumer amenities (business districts) in the neighborhoods.  Generous support needs to be given to for-profit and non-profit developers who are willing to create new or renovated market-rate housing in neighborhoods.  City government, foundations, and businesses (including realtors, developers, etc.) need to pay the advertising costs associated with implementing these plans.  Finally, by engaging residents to create and implement their own plans, we offer an intangible—but critical—human element the suburbs cannot match—neighbors intimately connected and working together for their common good.

3. Concentration of Re-Development Efforts.  Al Tuchfarber, U.C. demographer and early Urbanist, likes to point out that the re-development of the city is likely to follow a geographic pattern similar to its original development – i.e., it will begin with the historic basin area and then encompass the surrounding hillside communities.  The emergence of a fairly robust housing market in the Central Business District and, to a lesser degree, Over-the-Rhine, and the dramatic redevelopment going on in Uptown bear out Dr. Tuchfarber’s view.  We have to finish the job in these key neighborhoods before launching significant revitalization efforts in others.  As a practical matter, this means concentrating public and private investment for the time being on the Banks, the Central Business District, Over-the-Rhine and the key Uptown neighborhoods just above the basin.  In the past we have spread our development efforts too thinly and, as a result, we’ve fallen into the trap of “doing projects” rather than “creating places.”  This is an error which we cannot afford to keep repeating.

4. Protecting Our Existing Assets.  We need to remember that the assets we have to work with are formidable:  arts and cultural institutions, a compact and beautifully “framed” downtown, historic architecture, green space and parks, and spectacular hillside views.  We must not only preserve these assets but leverage them for the city’s revitalization.  It is essential, for instance, that we stabilize the funding situation of our major arts organizations and that we very deliberately create an arts district in Over-the-Rhine.

5. Rational Regional Government.  It’s striking that every single one of our competitor regions that has gained population while we lost it has adopted some version of consolidated City-County government.  This is no panacea for all that ails us but no one can responsibly argue that our current forms of government are up to the challenges facing us.  The demographic swoon started in the city but it’s now pulling down the old first-ring suburbs and other suburban areas in Hamilton County as well.  Only by marshalling and coordinating the resources of both governments will we be able to meet the challenge of population loss and again become competitive with regions like Lexington, Louisville, Indianapolis and Columbus.  Unless bold leadership emerges from the political class in the City or County, a new alliance between business and civic sectors will be needed to accomplish this historic goal.

6. Transit as a Tool of Development.  Study after study shows how clean, safe and efficient transit systems – especially light rail – stimulate the revitalization of faded urban neighborhoods (e.g., Fruitvale in Oakland, Columbia Heights in Washington, D.C.).  Urbanists and other civic and business groups must be undeterred by the popular rejection of a sales tax increase for light rail a few years ago.  That was before gasoline prices reached three dollars or more a gallon.  Public opinion will certainly shift as a result of changing conditions and now is the time to begin a renewed push for a more focused light rail plan with stops strategically placed to facilitate the redevelopment of key downtown and Uptown neighborhoods.

 

The challenge for all who care about the Queen City is to look at the facts with eyes wide open and convert our worry into a fierce fighting spirit.  Our forebears left to us this marvelous city with its many assets and it’s our duty to pass it on to subsequent generations more prosperous and beautiful than we found it and, once again, filled with peaceful and productive people who understand and treasure urban life.  The public policy proposals sketched above may not encompass all that needs to be done to achieve those goals but they are essential first steps.  For all of us, it’s once again time to roll up our sleeves and get to work.

 

Sincerely,

 

 

 

Jeffrey Stec Terry Grundy George Zamary

 

Wonderfully and accurately said!

we’ve fallen into the trap of “doing projects” rather than “creating places.”

 

 

 

by far my favorite line of the piece

 

    "For all of us, it’s once again time to roll up our sleeves and get to work."

 

    So, uh, where do we start?  :?

 

 

   

 

By the way Terry Grundy is one of my favorite professors that i have had at my tenure at UC thus far, really just a smart, easy-going man. Also he is VERY highly respected in both the UC and the Cincinnati community

No offense, but I used to attend Urbanist meetings for a few years right after the turn of the century, and I can't say they did much of anything.  They threw some pretty nice lectures with some pretty choice wine and cheese (even better than The Mercantile Library) but after a while I felt like I was just at a singles bar for people who don't like going to singles bars.  As for Terry Grundy, while he is a charming guy to talk to, I could never figure out what he was doing.  He had a remarkable ability to let everyone feel like they said their piece while at the end of the meeting basically what he wanted was agreed upon.  But then, nothing further happened except more meetings were scheduled.  What's the point of having the kevorka if you don't use it?  For a guy who teaches urban lobbying or whatever, he doesn't seem to do much about it.  A couple of plugs for Nick Spencer during his initial Council campaign was about all I ever saw in terms of lobbying.  What seemed to hold so much promise quickly proved tedious, which ironically is the perfect description of my brief relationship with some Indian chick I left one of those lectures with.  I remember that meeting had particularly good cheese. 

bump...posts moved

I honestly didn't even know the Urbanists still existed.

 

UCPlanner, what class did you have w/ Grundy?

Together, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Louisville and St. Louis became the commercial and industrial heart of the new nation, attracting hundreds of thousands of immigrants and billions of dollars of investment.

 

Yeah, good observation...the first "Urban West"...to which should be added New Orleans.

 

Contrary to popular mythology, Cincinnatians invested heavily in railroads. In the critical decade of the 1850s, Ohio laid down more miles of rail than any other state, and Cincinnatians were the major investors in many of those efforts. In addition, Cincinnatians took advantage of investment opportunities in railroads that fed Chicago and other places.

 

Very true. I was doing some reading on the early railroad era, and Cincy was certainly one of the big instigators of railroads into the Ohio back country.  The basic network formed pretty quick, and Cincinnati was well-connected early on.

 

 

1.   Safe and Clean.  If we don’t get safe and clean right, we won’t be able to get anything else right.  People won’t move into a historic neighborhood if it means putting their lives and property in constant danger or tolerating filthy sidewalks, derelict parks, and crumbling streets.  The city’s budget, beleaguered as it is, must emphasize safety and cleanliness.  Additionally, we should give hearty support to creative proposals like using Sheriff’s deputies to patrol Over-the-Rhine and other key neighborhoods, designating “no tolerance for crime” zones around our key cultural amenities, and transferring more desk-bound police officers to neighborhood walking patrols.

2.   Neighborhoods of Choice.  The City of Cincinnati and local foundations must help each neighborhood in the city develop and implement a concrete, practical, citizen-based marketing plan that “sells” the neighborhood based on its unique assets and identity.  These plans need to be based on sound market analysis and include strategies to improve the housing product, civic assets (like parks and walkable districts) and consumer amenities (business districts) in the neighborhoods.  Generous support needs to be given to for-profit and non-profit developers who are willing to create new or renovated market-rate housing in neighborhoods.  City government, foundations, and businesses (including realtors, developers, etc.) need to pay the advertising costs associated with implementing these plans.  Finally, by engaging residents to create and implement their own plans, we offer an intangible—but critical—human element the suburbs cannot match—neighbors intimately connected and working together for their common good.

3.   Concentration of Re-Development Efforts.  Al Tuchfarber, U.C. demographer and early Urbanist, likes to point out that the re-development of the city is likely to follow a geographic pattern similar to its original development – i.e., it will begin with the historic basin area and then encompass the surrounding hillside communities.  The emergence of a fairly robust housing market in the Central Business District and, to a lesser degree, Over-the-Rhine, and the dramatic redevelopment going on in Uptown bear out Dr. Tuchfarber’s view.  We have to finish the job in these key neighborhoods before launching significant revitalization efforts in others.  As a practical matter, this means concentrating public and private investment for the time being on the Banks, the Central Business District, Over-the-Rhine and the key Uptown neighborhoods just above the basin.  In the past we have spread our development efforts too thinly and, as a result, we’ve fallen into the trap of “doing projects” rather than “creating places.”  This is an error which we cannot afford to keep repeating.

4.   Protecting Our Existing Assets.  We need to remember that the assets we have to work with are formidable:  arts and cultural institutions, a compact and beautifully “framed” downtown, historic architecture, green space and parks, and spectacular hillside views.  We must not only preserve these assets but leverage them for the city’s revitalization.  It is essential, for instance, that we stabilize the funding situation of our major arts organizations and that we very deliberately create an arts district in Over-the-Rhine.

5.   Rational Regional Government.  It’s striking that every single one of our competitor regions that has gained population while we lost it has adopted some version of consolidated City-County government.  This is no panacea for all that ails us but no one can responsibly argue that our current forms of government are up to the challenges facing us.  The demographic swoon started in the city but it’s now pulling down the old first-ring suburbs and other suburban areas in Hamilton County as well.  Only by marshalling and coordinating the resources of both governments will we be able to meet the challenge of population loss and again become competitive with regions like Lexington, Louisville, Indianapolis and Columbus.  Unless bold leadership emerges from the political class in the City or County, a new alliance between business and civic sectors will be needed to accomplish this historic goal.

6.   Transit as a Tool of Development.  Study after study shows how clean, safe and efficient transit systems – especially light rail – stimulate the revitalization of faded urban neighborhoods (e.g., Fruitvale in Oakland, Columbia Heights in Washington, D.C.).  Urbanists and other civic and business groups must be undeterred by the popular rejection of a sales tax increase for light rail a few years ago.  That was before gasoline prices reached three dollars or more a gallon.  Public opinion will certainly shift as a result of changing conditions and now is the time to begin a renewed push for a more focused light rail plan with stops strategically placed to facilitate the redevelopment of key downtown and Uptown neighborhoods.

 

Of all these points 5 and 6 are the least likely, especially 5.

 

 

As for #4, stop tearing things down.  Especially stop tearing things down in OTR and that downtown "frame".  That Cincinnati downtown more or less blends into surrounding neighborhoods without being disrupted by a belt of parking lots or low density urban renewal is one of the things thatt makes the urban experience there so powerful.

 

Nothing kills an urban feeling or atmosphere than a bunch of parking lots.

 

 

 

Henry Ford tried to get financing but no banks in Cincinnati believed in his stupid motorized carriage idea. So now Detroit is the motor city. Cincinnati may have invested a lot in railroads but I suggest you look at a railroad map of the midwest; you will find that Chicago is a giiiaannt hub for rail. I think these are probably a few of the biggest reasons why Cincinnati didn't grow the way they had hoped it would.

i have taken 2 of terry's urban lobbying classes, they are some of the most insightful classes i have taken at college...easy too!..haha

^I think these are probably a few of the biggest reasons why Cincinnati didn't grow the way they had hoped it would.

 

I think we're ignoring some basic geographical realities.  Chicago is a hinge point for the U.S. in a way that Cincinnati isn't.  It is the southwestern-most point on the Great Lakes that is only about 3 miles from the Des Plaines River which feeds into the Mississippi via the Illinois River.  So basically the two greatest natural transportation systems in the Eastern United States, the natural highways that connect the interior of the continent with both the Atlantic Ocean and the Gulf of Mexico come closest to each other at Chicago.  So it becomes natural that Eastern financiers would finance the construction of unnatural transportation networks that could best take advantage of these pre-existing natural ones.  The only other cities in the U.S. of comparable geograhpic importance are New York and New Orleans, obviously the two great ports at the ends of those two respective systems.  It's no surprise that after the Revolutionary War, the leading cities of Philadelphia and Boston fell behind New York, and that Charleston was soon eclipsed by New Orleans as the leading city in the South.  As with those great cities, there was a sort of geographic inevitability to Chicago eclipsing Cincinnati, St. Louis, Pittsburgh, etc. in terms of population and as a destination for immigrants.

Here's a nice map of what I'm talking about.  You can see how the St. Lawrence/Great Lakes drainage and the Mississippi drainage come closest to each other in the Chicago suburb of Oak Park:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:NorthAmericaDivides.gif

^I think these are probably a few of the biggest reasons why Cincinnati didn't grow the way they had hoped it would.

 

I think we're ignoring some basic geographical realities.  Chicago is a hinge point for the U.S. in a way that Cincinnati isn't.  It is the southwestern-most point on the Great Lakes that is only about 3 miles from the Des Plaines River which feeds into the Mississippi via the Illinois River.  So basically the two greatest natural transportation systems in the Eastern United States, the natural highways that connect the interior of the continent with both the Atlantic Ocean and the Gulf of Mexico come closest to each other at Chicago.  So it becomes natural that Eastern financiers would finance the construction of unnatural transportation networks that could best take advantage of these pre-existing natural ones.  The only other cities in the U.S. of comparable geograhpic importance are New York and New Orleans, obviously the two great ports at the ends of those two respective systems.  It's no surprise that after the Revolutionary War, the leading cities of Philadelphia and Boston fell behind New York, and that Charleston was soon eclipsed by New Orleans as the leading city in the South.  As with those great cities, there was a sort of geographic inevitability to Chicago eclipsing Cincinnati, St. Louis, Pittsburgh, etc. in terms of population and as a destination for immigrants.

 

Good point. Chicago's population went from 500k-1million in a matter of 10 years, from 1880-1890. Then went to 1.69 million by 1900. Crazy.

Right, yes, but in the period in question..the first third of the 19th century...the river system was the main transportation route, and settlement pretty much pushed west via the Ohio valley first, then north to the Great Lakes.  The frontier in the lower Midwest was as much an east-west line as it was a north-south line.

 

This river system and initial early settlement is why the river cities mentioned in that article grew to be cities.  Interesting, too, that all of them where natural break in bulk points except for Cincinnati, which had a different advantage of being close to the first settled Midwestern farm country, for which it became an outlet.  In the 1830s, prior to the railroad boom, Cincinnati built a canal system to reinforce this trade connection, so it had 20 years of canal-era boom prior to the railroad era.

 

True, the Lakes/Erie Canal route replaced the Ohio/Mississippi as the main trade/communications artery, which was later supplemented by railroads.  Yet, this route would not have been of much use until the surrounding region was settled and brought into cultivation.

 

Chicagos portage location was well known, but it remained a frontier outpost and was only first platted in the 1830s as part of the land speculation around the I&M Canal.  Then, as its hinterland became settled it grew with Lake trade to the east, connecting to NYC via the Lakes and the Erie Canal.    Cincinnati had early advantage and an early start in urbanization due to the differentials in the times of settlement of its hinterland vis a vis Chicago, thus grew large first.

 

 

 

 

 

I haven't been keeping up with the census threads, so I apologize if this link is already here.

 

Wendell Cox, who is a sprawl supporter, has compiled a list of cities showing how their regions have grown compared to the central city from 2000 to 2005:

 

Cincinnati is shown as follows:

 

year 2000 region 2,050,175

year 2005 region 2,113,011

Regional increase     62,836

 

Central city year 2000  331,283

Central city year 2005  308,728

Central city change      (22,555)

 

Share of growth city contributed to region -35.9%

 

Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Rochester and St. Louis are the only ones shown with a regional loss!

 

http://www.demographia.com/db-metrocore2005.htm

 

I'm not quite sure what your point was of the numbers but a little historical perspective might be needed to show that Cleveland, even with a regional loss, seems to be transitioning a bit better in redistributing it's population than Cincy is these days.

 

Between 1970-1980 Cleveland lost 6 percent of it's population regionally. The city itself lost 25 percent of it's population during that period.

 

Between 1980-1990 Cleveland lost 2 percent of it's population regionally.

The city itself lost 12 percent of it's population during that period.

 

Between 1990-2000 Cleveland gained 2 percent of it's population regionally.

The city itself lost 7 percent of it's population during that period.

 

Using the numbers above for '00-'05...Cleveland lost .5 percent of it's population regionally.

The city itself lost 5 percent of it's population during that period.

 

Cleveland still has alot of issues to work out....but the trends in Cincy are bit more disturbing. This idea that "we don't have regional loss so everything is OK" is how most Steel/Auto belt cities acted in the 50's and 60's. Cleveland's share of hurting the region has been steadily declining since the 70's up until the last 5 years and considering that NE Ohio was the epicenter of the early '00s recession, I think Cleveland's regional numbers will improve through the last 5 years of this decade and the rate of the city hurting the region will begin to abate again. Part of reversing this trend for Cleveland is all the downtown housing construction going on in places that were left to rot during the 60's and 70's. It was focused in only a few areas during the 80's and 90's but now has become more widespread and is affecting many areas of downtown. This is not a knock on Cincy, it's just surprising to me to see how fast people are moving out of Cincy and Hamiton Co.

 

My question would be....what's going on in Cincy to create this mass exodus?

^A more "desireable" suburban county ring (ala Butler, Warren, NKY, and Clermont).  Thus, mass exodus ala Cuyahoga, though that region seems to be stagnant.

^^ Yeah, but Cuyahoga mass exodus days were at their worst in the 70's. It's a trickle compared to those days. Not to many 'Rust Belt' cities are posting numbers like Cincy/Hamilton Co. lately outside of Detroit/Wayne Co. And since Cincy was not part of the Rust Belt problems of the 1970's and they weren't wacked as bad by the recession earlier this decade, I still wonder why such a massive move out of that area. Is it crime?

^^ Yeah, but Cuyahoga mass exodus days were at their worst in the 70's. It's a trickle compared to those days. Not to many 'Rust Belt' cities are posting numbers like Cincy/Hamilton Co. lately outside of Detroit/Wayne Co. And since Cincy was not part of the Rust Belt problems of the 1970's and they weren't wacked as bad by the recession earlier this decade, I still wonder why such a massive move out of that area. Is it crime?

 

Again, it's the desirability of "new" suburbia (re: West Chester and such) that are driving an aging county like Hamilton to population decline.  Add jobs, access between two cities (Cin and Day) and a suburban mentality and you are going to have population decline in a relatively (by Ohio standards) old county.

>> I was doing some reading on the early railroad era, and Cincy was certainly one of the big instigators of railroads into the Ohio back country.  The basic network formed pretty quick, and Cincinnati was well-connected early on.

 

I think most of this statement stems from the enormous time lag between when the Cincinnati Southern railraod was proposed, when construction began, and when it actually opened.  To expand, I think also it is mostly Cincinnati's rail connections with the south and the enormous obstacle of the river and Kentucky's relentless hills and the mountains of eastern Tennessee, and then of course the physical and economic devestation of the entire south following the war.  In the late 1800's, Chattanooga, Nashville, and Atlanta were basically nothing whereas there was action on all sides of Chicago, Detroit, etc. 

 

Also, the now-conspicuous L&N bridge was a bit of a mistake and the result of Covington, not Cincinnati, prohibiting a railroad bridge.  Newport allowed a bridge but obviously it landed in Cincinnati in a far inferior location. 

 

But the larger issue is that people in the United States are obsessed with population growth.  People might brag "we're the biggest" when in fact they loath 95% of their fellow citizens.  Size matters for certain things, but it is really one of the more amazing quirks of American history that something -- anything -- truly pivitol to US history hasn't happened in Cincinnati by now.  No battle, no assassination, no product, no really well-known figure who is automatically associated with the city.  The biggest missed chance in the city's history wasn't in the late 1800's but after the war or 1812, when it was proposed to move the national capital here.  And if Cincinnati had become state capital, it would today have many more residents because of all the state jobs.       

 

The biggest missed chance in the city's history wasn't in the late 1800's but after the war or 1812, when it was proposed to move the national capital here.

 

Do you mean the state capital?  I've never heard anything about Cincinnati becoming the national capital...

 

Leaving Washington Behind

For more than a century, politicians, journalists, and Western-city boosters urged Congress to get out of the District of Columbia and take the government elsewhere.

 

 

In last year’s April/May issue, David McCullough gave a tour of Washington, D.C., in which he described the palpable presence of the past there. Washington today is so rich in national memories and so thoroughly synonymous with federal government that having the nation’s capital anywhere else is unimaginable. But for many citizens in the nineteenth century and even later, the transfer of the seat of government to a new and better location was an issue of the greatest importance. Only in recent decades has the idea of abandoning Washington ceased to be mentioned by serious people; in earlier times it never went away.

 

 

 

The original congressional debate on the seat of government, in 1790, revolved around the idea that it ought to be in a central site, which to many at the time meant along the Potomac; however, the decision was made not by reason but through a political bargain involving Thomas Jefferson and Alexander Hamilton. It was agreed that Philadelphia would be the capital for ten years, and the newly created Washington the permanent seat from 1800 on. Since the time of the Declaration of Independence, the national government had essentially kept moving, and there was little to guarantee that Washington would really be a “permanent capital” for long. Nor did it quickly offer the government much incentive to remain. The city’s growth was disappointingly sluggish and its amenities few. The Irish poet Thomas Moore’s description of the town captured the feelings of many: “This embryo capital, where Fancy sees/Squares in morasses, obelisks in trees. …”

 

A mere eight years after the official transfer from Philadelphia, Congressman James Sloan moved that the government return to the City of Brotherly Love. All the money spent on Washington, he argued, had not sufficed to “force into existence a city.” The capital remained a national embarrassment, with the look, when Congress was not in session, of a “number of deserted, decaying villages,” and a hot climate and marshy soil that posed a constant threat to the health and even the lives of the legislators. Moreover, Sloan contended, schemes of tyranny might flourish undetected in a town so small and isolated. Let Congress, he urged, move back “nearer the centre of population” and then “let the tall trees of the forest” grow up around the abandoned buildings in Washington, “that the eyes of republican travellers may not be disgusted with the sight!”

 

Sloan’s efforts failed, but the city had a much narrower escape six years later, after its occupation and partial destruction by the British army in the War of 1812. A representative from New York, citing the dangerously exposed position of the capital, proposed that, for the time being, Congress move elsewhere. Many saw the motion as merely the prelude to a permanent relocation. It garnered wide support in Congress, and only the active lobbying of President Madison’s administration ensured the bill’s defeat.

 

Residents of the capital breathed more easily, but the question was far from settled. Elsewhere ominous signs remained. In state after state, the capital was pulled by the advance of population from its original site on the periphery to a town more centrally located—from Charleston to Columbia, South Carolina; from Savannah to Milledgeville, Georgia; from Philadelphia to Lancaster and then Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. In some instances the legislature even stipulated that the new capital be located at the geographical center of the state, as determined by a surveyor. With these examples in mind, a Virginia author in 1814 saw no prospect that the national government could remain forever along the Potomac. Just as the clash of “local feelings” had led to the relocation of state capitals, so the westward flow of population would sooner or later bring calls for the removal of the seat of federal government to a more central site.

 

Westerners raised the same prospect. Sen. William Alien of Ohio expressed in 1846 the hope that the capital would speedily be moved away from the “great influential commercial cities on the seaboard” and into the heartland. For frontier-city promoters who had long sought such prizes as county seat-hood or a state university for their towns, this was the jackpot. One of them, William Gilpin, had maps made of his Centropolis, Missouri, showing the buildings that would one day house the national government. Disinterested observers, too, expressed the belief that the relocation of the capital was only a matter of time.

 

In the decades before the Civil War, the matter rarely got beyond mere prediction. When the war broke out, the District of Columbia became a rallying point for the Union. To abandon Washington while the war lasted would have seemed a sign of weakness. With the Union victorious, however, Westerners began to bring the capital issue to the fore. Chicago and Cincinnati were often mentioned, but St. Louis commanded the greatest following. Its most vocal backer was a journalist named Logan Uriah Reavis, who, during the late 1860s and early 1870s, issued a stream of pamphlets calling for removal. Reavis asserted that as centrality had been the governing factor in the choice of the Potomac site, it now pointed to St. Louis, “where the great vitalizing heart of the Republic beats in keeping with its onward march of progress and greatness.”

 

For a time, a move seemed a very real possibility. Walt Whitman predicted that within fifty years the capital would “migrate a thousand or two miles” and be rebuilt “on a different plan, original, far more superb.” Conventions were held to urge the relocation of the capital. The most notable, convened in Cincinnati in 1870, passed resolutions demanding that no more money be spent on the federal buildings in Washington. Bills calling for removal were introduced in Congress.

 

The early 1870s marked the crest of the removal movement. Novels set in the distant future continued to predict the transfer of the seat of government westward to the Mississippi valley, or even south to Central America, as the capital of a united hemisphere. Practical interest, though, declined, and every year of the status quo added to Washington’s prestige. However, occasional moments of crisis, real or perceived, could still trigger isolated calls for removal. In 1895 Cyrenus O. Ward, an obscure social theorist, denounced the power of entrenched interests in Washington, likening the humid climate of the capital to the “real estate rings that have corrupted the moral atmosphere with the sickly effluvia of their lobbies.” He urged a new site, “upon one of the delightful plateaus in some rock-ribbed corner of your vast confines,” where the natural and moral climate alike would be healthier. The Great Depression evoked a plea for removal from the eminent Southern poet-critic John Crowe Ransom. In 1933 he proposed a “Capital for the New Deal,” located “deep in the interior where our capital city ought to be,” away from the commercial East, where reactionary interests were strongest.

 

If such suggestions are made today, they are most likely made in jest. Few policies have less of a constituency. Modern transportation has done much to weaken the importance of centrality. The historical heritage of Washington as capital city is not something that many would be willing to surrender. While other nations have in recent decades moved or considered moving their capitals to new sites, the sheer expense alone of relocating a modern government is not to be taken lightly. Even the many politicians who make a point of “running against Washington,” and who employ the same rhetoric once used to call for a new capital, are only using the name as a symbol of something else; they no longer ever include the actual removal of the capital in their platforms.

 

—William B. Meyer

 

Wow, that's fantastic.  Thank you!  I'd never heard of that before...

From the 8/5/06 Cincinnati Post:

 

 

Hispanic population explodes

By Stephenie Steitzer and Kevin Eigelbach

Post staff reporters

 

Census figures released Friday show a rapid acceleration in the region's Hispanic population, with most counties seeing double-digit percentage increases since 2000.

 

The Hispanic population grew by 43 percent in the three Northern Kentucky counties from 2000 to 2005, according to the U.S. Census Bureau estimates.

 

Boone County experienced the most rapid growth in Northern Kentucky, as the Hispanic population there grew 54 percent to 2,622.

 

http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060805/NEWS02/608050324/1011/RSS02

 

No battle, no assassination, no product, no really well-known figure who is automatically associated with the city.  The biggest missed chance in the city's history wasn't in the late 1800's but after the war or 1812, when it was proposed to move the national capital here.  And if Cincinnati had become state capital, it would today have many more residents because of all the state jobs.     

 

 

What about PG  :-D

From the 8/20/06 Enquirer:

 

 

Multimedia

Graphic: Hispanic population growth in the region (PDF)

 

Diversity comes slowly to N.Ky.

Black, Asian, Hispanic population up 32% in seven-county region

BY BRENNA R. KELLY | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITER

 

Slowly but surely Northern Kentucky is becoming more diverse. The population of blacks, Asians and Hispanics in the seven-county area increased 32 percent over the last five years, according to recent population estimates.

 

But Northern Kentucky is still mostly white; barely 3 percent of the population is black, 1.6 percent Hispanic and 0.9 percent Asian.

 

However, the white population is aging and a younger, more diverse population is taking its place, said Ron Crouch, director of the Kentucky State Data Center.

 

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060820/NEWS0103/608200403/1059/rss13

 

Interesting guest editorial in today's Enquirer entitled "Here's good news about population loss:"

 

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060823/EDIT02/608230317/1090

 

It reiterates some of the "good" points made in this thread.

Very refreshing article, glad someone can shed some light on the positive things happening in town!

Census shows HamCo exodus

Often, the way up is out, but not far

BY JESSICA BROWN | [email protected]

March 22, 2007

 

Three years ago lifelong West Side resident Scott Panzeca and his family made a wrenching decision.

 

They moved from Westwood to West Chester.

 

It was a tough choice, said his wife, Jennifer, a Children's Hospital employee.

 

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070322/NEWS01/703220407/1056/COL02

---

Here is a related article...

 

City gain hard to explain at first

BY GREGORY KORTE | [email protected]

March 22, 2007

 

But wait - didn't the Census Bureau say last year that Cincinnati isn't losing population after all?

 

And if that's true, why is Hamilton County losing population at its fastest annual rate since the 2000 Census?

 

The short answer is: Something's got to give.

 

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070322/NEWS01/703220408/1056/COL02

gggrrrrrr!  I went to high school with sean criswell, the guy they interviewed for the above story.  First, off, he graduated a year ahead of me and he wasn't the brightest guy then.  Looks like things have not changed!  Second, why is the Enquirer quoting the words of someone who lives in Harrison and is complaining about crime in the city and the Banks in the city.  He should have no real say nor should he be considered to have a valid opinion about it if he lives in an apartment in Harrison.  Bah!

It always amazes me how negatively they present this story each year.  In the mid to late nineties the story was always that the sprawl continues, but it never became a who's who of former disgruntled Hamilton County residents.  The one thing that I do agree with is that the city and county leaders need to work together to get things done.

 

And at least the metro is growing, although it would be nicer to be closer to the 20,000 per year instead of 13-14,000.  I guess this will show on the census site soon.

 

2000          2005          2006

2,009,632  2,090,968  2,104,218

^^The point atlas was making is this:

 

If you live in Harrison, OH...then why in the heck are you going to cite crime in Cincinnati and the Banks project as your reason for moving out of Hamilton County??  Someone in Harrison has no connection to crime or the Banks project within Cincinnati.  It is an idiotic rationale to have...its a way to kick someone on your way out.  Why wasn't it Harrison??

 

The family from Westwood at least has legit rationale.  They cited crime and bad schools as their reasoning behind moving away.  Those are actually legit concerns and thats fine.  They do have room to discuss crime in Cincinnati...because THEY LIVE IN CINCINNATI.  However the problem with their situation is that they could have accomplished the same thing by moving just a couple of miles away to Green Twp (or even elsewhere in the county).

 

I think it has become the accepted practice that if things are bad in your Hamilton County community, that your only option is to leave the county...when thats not the case.

 

The Nky school system sucks, same with SE Indiana.  Only Lakota and Mason are good school systems outside of Hamilton County.  Inside Hamilton County you have EXCELLENT school districts like Oak Hills, Wyoming, Sycamore, etc.  You also have VERY LITTLE crime issues in many of the communities within Hamilton County.  The family from Westwood could have moved somewhere else within the county and gotten the same (if not better results) from their move.  It has simply become the accepted practice to jump ship and head to Mason, WC, Liberty...unfortunately.

Only Lakota and Mason are good school systems outside of Hamilton County.

 

I think Ross, Fairfield, and some others would disagree with you on that.

I'll give you Ross, but that isn't a particularly booming area in Butler County.  The growth is occurring elsewhere.  Fairfield schools are good (and maybe I should have said 'excellent' instead of good)...but I could then throw in another group of schools in Hamilton County if we go ahead and count Fairfield.  FF attained their 1st 'excellent' state rating last school year.  Good, but not Great.

gggrrrrrr!  I went to high school with sean criswell, the guy they interviewed for the above story.  First, off, he graduated a year ahead of me and he wasn't the brightest guy then.  Looks like things have not changed!  Second, why is the Enquirer quoting the words of someone who lives in Harrison and is complaining about crime in the city and the Banks in the city.  He should have no real say nor should he be considered to have a valid opinion about it if he lives in an apartment in Harrison.  Bah!

 

I think you really need to work on your reading comprehension, reading retention, or just read the article.  I'm lmao over here.  Never before have I seen someone try to make someone look like an idiot, yet makes themselves look ridiculous in the process.  Fist off, it says in the article that he lives in a house in greendale, IN, not an apartment in Harrison.  He lived in an apartment in Harrison.  Not only that but he also said that he never really intended on moving from Hamilton County, but since he has he can look back on it and realize that he doesn't have to put up with the problems that used to.  Sounds fair.  Also look at the title of the article.  It says HAMILTON COUNTY EXODUS, NOT CINCINNATI.  Last time I checked Harrison is in Hamilton County so he has a very legitimate reason to be interviewed for this story.

gggrrrrrr!  I went to high school with sean criswell, the guy they interviewed for the above story.  First, off, he graduated a year ahead of me and he wasn't the brightest guy then.  Looks like things have not changed!  Second, why is the Enquirer quoting the words of someone who lives in Harrison and is complaining about crime in the city and the Banks in the city.  He should have no real say nor should he be considered to have a valid opinion about it if he lives in an apartment in Harrison.  Bah!

 

Hey Atlas, this is Sean Criswell.  I don't know who you are, but I got the distinct feeling you don't know me.  I'm not that bright?  I would love to know what falls under your definition of bright.  After all I only graduated with honors in the top 25 of my class and was a national honor society member, along with playing two varsity sports.  But I digress.  My real reason for posting is to enlighten you and Uncle Rando a little bit.  The reason I was interviewed is because the Cincinnati Enquirer put a link up on its website asking for anyone who has moved out of Hamilton County in the past couple of years to let them know why they moved.  Let's see... I lived in Hamilton County and I moved.....hmmm seems like I fit the description.  The journalist who interviewed me asked me why I moved.  I told her I had no real intention of moving, but because my girlfriend at the time, who is now my wife, is from Indiana and wanted to move back.  She then asked me why I thought other people were moving.  I said I believed it was crime and the ineptitude of county and city commissioners and I cited the Banks Project as an example.  With that being said, my opinion actually does hold weight and should be viewed.  You see, even though I live in Greendale, I work in Cincinnati.  I pay income taxes to the city of Cincinnati, so I have every right to say my views on a city that uses my tax dollars.  Considering three banks within a five block radius of my work have been robbed in the past six months, a woman was mugged outside of our business during the holidays, and three cars in our parking lot have been broken into, I have first hand seen the crime that goes on in Cincinnati.  Not only that but the Banks Project has been a joke.  It's a fight between Cincinnati and Hamilton County to see who gets to oversee the development.  Let's see....I lived in Hamilton County and I work in Cincinnati....seems like I have a right to an opinion.  So actually UncleRando, I have a very real connection to the Banks Project and the crime that goes on in Cincinnati.  It was a nice try though really.  One last thing Atlas.  I could't help but notice that we are the same age, yet you graduated a year behind me.  Did you get held back or fail???  Just wondering.

To quote grasscat, "I love it when people come into a message board and immediately begin to mix it up.  I mean, Jesus, at least say hello!  Do you walk into a room, pick a random woman, and tell her she's fat?"

gggrrrrrr!  I went to high school with sean criswell, the guy they interviewed for the above story.  First, off, he graduated a year ahead of me and he wasn't the brightest guy then.  Looks like things have not changed!  Second, why is the Enquirer quoting the words of someone who lives in Harrison and is complaining about crime in the city and the Banks in the city.  He should have no real say nor should he be considered to have a valid opinion about it if he lives in an apartment in Harrison.  Bah!

 

Hey Atlas, this is Sean Criswell.  I don't know who you are, but I got the distinct feeling you don't know me.  I'm not that bright?  I would love to know what falls under your definition of bright.  After all I only graduated with honors in the top 25 of my class and was a national honor society member, along with playing two varsity sports.  But I digress.  My real reason for posting is to enlighten you and Uncle Rando a little bit.  The reason I was interviewed is because the Cincinnati Enquirer put a link up on its website asking for anyone who has moved out of Hamilton County in the past couple of years to let them know why they moved.  Let's see... I lived in Hamilton County and I moved.....hmmm seems like I fit the description.  The journalist who interviewed me asked me why I moved.  I told her I had no real intention of moving, but because my girlfriend at the time, who is now my wife, is from Indiana and wanted to move back.  She then asked me why I thought other people were moving.  I said I believed it was crime and the ineptitude of county and city commissioners and I cited the Banks Project as an example.  With that being said, my opinion actually does hold weight and should be viewed.  You see, even though I live in Greendale, I work in Cincinnati.  I pay income taxes to the city of Cincinnati, so I have every right to say my views on a city that uses my tax dollars.  Considering three banks within a five block radius of my work have been robbed in the past six months, a woman was mugged outside of our business during the holidays, and three cars in our parking lot have been broken into, I have first hand seen the crime that goes on in Cincinnati.  Not only that but the Banks Project has been a joke.  It's a fight between Cincinnati and Hamilton County to see who gets to oversee the development.  Let's see....I lived in Hamilton County and I work in Cincinnati....seems like I have a right to an opinion.  So actually UncleRando, I have a very real connection to the Banks Project and the crime that goes on in Cincinnati.  It was a nice try though really.  One last thing Atlas.  I could't help but notice that we are the same age, yet you graduated a year behind me.  Did you get held back or fail???  Just wondering.

 

Thx for coming on and sharing your end of the story, but my opinion still stands.  The Enquirer it seems did misquote you, but it doesn't change the meat of my point.  You cited crime...well how is the crime for the entire county??  Hey how is the crime for Cincinnati??  Sure the media portrays it as one thing, but if you actually do the research and educate yourself then you will realize that Cincinnati is actually no different from any other large metropolitan area.  Now if you say that it is high for all of those places then fine....I've got plenty of problems with the social programs and the programs meant at correcting criminal behavior.  Talk to your reps in DC and start demanding change!  Don't blame the city for the federal government's ineptitude!

 

Secondly...The Banks.  Do you know anyone from the Banks Working Group?  Do you know anyone from the Urban Design Review Board?  Do you know anyone from AIG?  Do you actually read/educate yourself on the project any further than reading the Enquirer?  My guess is that the answer to most, if not all, of these questions is no.  In the most recent City Beat publication it states that The Banks should be underway by this fall.  When you compare the time line of The Banks to that of other comparable projects...then you will realize that it takes time, and that this project hasn't been any different from those.

 

I would appreciate it if people starting educating themselves on topics before they simply enact the anti-city knee jerk reaction.  If you find it inappropriate for me to criticize people like yourself and the others that were quoted in the article then fine...but I find it inappropriate for people like yourself to unnecessarily bash the city!  If you want to move to be closer to your gf or whatever...fine; just don't kick the city on your way out!  Its tacky and illustrates that you have zero class whatsoever.

 

Enjoy your life out in Dearborn County...and I'll enjoy mine here in Hamilton.  I guess I'll have to continue to have my car bullet-proofed and chain my front door shut every day.  While you can skip through flowering meadows with bunnies and rainbows!

gggrrrrrr!  I went to high school with sean criswell, the guy they interviewed for the above story.  First, off, he graduated a year ahead of me and he wasn't the brightest guy then.  Looks like things have not changed!  Second, why is the Enquirer quoting the words of someone who lives in Harrison and is complaining about crime in the city and the Banks in the city.  He should have no real say nor should he be considered to have a valid opinion about it if he lives in an apartment in Harrison.  Bah!

 

Hey Atlas, this is Sean Criswell.  I don't know who you are, but I got the distinct feeling you don't know me.  I'm not that bright?  I would love to know what falls under your definition of bright.  After all I only graduated with honors in the top 25 of my class and was a national honor society member, along with playing two varsity sports.  But I digress.  My real reason for posting is to enlighten you and Uncle Rando a little bit.  The reason I was interviewed is because the Cincinnati Enquirer put a link up on its website asking for anyone who has moved out of Hamilton County in the past couple of years to let them know why they moved.  Let's see... I lived in Hamilton County and I moved.....hmmm seems like I fit the description.  The journalist who interviewed me asked me why I moved.  I told her I had no real intention of moving, but because my girlfriend at the time, who is now my wife, is from Indiana and wanted to move back.  She then asked me why I thought other people were moving.  I said I believed it was crime and the ineptitude of county and city commissioners and I cited the Banks Project as an example.  With that being said, my opinion actually does hold weight and should be viewed.  You see, even though I live in Greendale, I work in Cincinnati.  I pay income taxes to the city of Cincinnati, so I have every right to say my views on a city that uses my tax dollars.  Considering three banks within a five block radius of my work have been robbed in the past six months, a woman was mugged outside of our business during the holidays, and three cars in our parking lot have been broken into, I have first hand seen the crime that goes on in Cincinnati.  Not only that but the Banks Project has been a joke.  It's a fight between Cincinnati and Hamilton County to see who gets to oversee the development.  Let's see....I lived in Hamilton County and I work in Cincinnati....seems like I have a right to an opinion.  So actually UncleRando, I have a very real connection to the Banks Project and the crime that goes on in Cincinnati.  It was a nice try though really.  One last thing Atlas.  I could't help but notice that we are the same age, yet you graduated a year behind me.  Did you get held back or fail???  Just wondering.

 

Thx for coming on and sharing your end of the story, but my opinion still stands.  The Enquirer it seems did misquote you, but it doesn't change the meat of my point.  You cited crime...well how is the crime for the entire county??  Hey how is the crime for Cincinnati??  Sure the media portrays it as one thing, but if you actually do the research and educate yourself then you will realize that Cincinnati is actually no different from any other large metropolitan area.  Now if you say that it is high for all of those places then fine....I've got plenty of problems with the social programs and the programs meant at correcting criminal behavior.  Talk to your reps in DC and start demanding change!  Don't blame the city for the federal government's ineptitude!

 

Secondly...The Banks.  Do you know anyone from the Banks Working Group?  Do you know anyone from the Urban Design Review Board?  Do you know anyone from AIG?  Do you actually read/educate yourself on the project any further than reading the Enquirer?  My guess is that the answer to most, if not all, of these questions is no.  In the most recent City Beat publication it states that The Banks should be underway by this fall.  When you compare the time line of The Banks to that of other comparable projects...then you will realize that it takes time, and that this project hasn't been any different from those.

 

I would appreciate it if people starting educating themselves on topics before they simply enact the anti-city knee jerk reaction.  If you find it inappropriate for me to criticize people like yourself and the others that were quoted in the article then fine...but I find it inappropriate for people like yourself to unnecessarily bash the city!  If you want to move to be closer to your gf or whatever...fine; just don't kick the city on your way out!  Its tacky and illustrates that you have zero class whatsoever.

 

Enjoy your life out in Dearborn County...and I'll enjoy mine here in Hamilton.  I guess I'll have to continue to have my car bullet-proofed and chain my front door shut every day.  While you can skip through flowering meadows with bunnies and rainbows!

 

I reviewed some of your posts and I must say that to see someone who is very active in their community, especially, at the age of 21 is refreshing and great to see.  Also, I believe that we share a lot of the same views.  Having said that, let me try and shed some light on my thoughts and attempt to alter your very skewed view of mine that you have received from a very small paragraph in a newspaper.  I will try and take your points one by one.  First, you are absolutely right when it comes to the crime rate in Cincinnati compared to other cities.  However, does that change anything?  The crime rate in Cincinnati is still going up.  Does that mean people just throw up there arms and say, "Well it's happening everywhere else, guess I don't move anywhere." or do they do what has been happening for years and move to the suburbs or rural areas where crime isn't nearly as bad.  This would explain the 5.4% growth rate in Butler County, 23% growth rate in Warren county and growth in Clermont county, Indiana, and Northern Kentucky.  The only thing that keeps people in or near the city is jobs, which up until very recently have been outsourced to other counties or states all together.  As far as social programs and programs for correcting criminal behavior, I'm having a really hard time trying to see where the federal government is responsible for the crime rate in a city.  First off no one has any control over whether someone commits a crime or not other than the person who commits it.  Could a city or county limit the opportunity for a crime, or seek out viable alternatives to crime for underpriviledged people. Absolutely.  But there comes a point, when people need to hold themselves and their community accountable for their actions.  I really don't see where the federal government comes into play there.  The CPD has its hands tied by the collaborative agreement.  Jails are overcrowded, and take a stroll through OTR and you will see drug deals going on in broad daylight.  True this may be happening in other cities across the United States, but you are seeing the same sprawl from those communities as well. 

 

Second. The Banks.....No I do not know anyone from AIG, UDRB, or the Banks Working Group.  However, I don't know Ted Strickland, Bush, Pelosi, Kennedy, or any other politician for that matter.  I don't need to personally meet or know anyone to see how well they are doing at their job.  That is what the press and news are for.  City Beat, says work will begin in the fall.  Just like work was supposed to start in 2000, 2001, 2003, 2005, and 2006.  If they finally do start on this project, then it's about damn time, but I'm not holding my breath.  We have had countless developers pull out citing county and city squabbling as one of the reasons.  They have wasted money, time, and patience with this project.  I understand that projects take time, but 9 years and absolutely no progress??? Never before have a seen or heard about ineptitude from city and county government on such a large scale when it involves something that will do nothing but benefit the city.  Everyone wants their hand in the pot and greed has stalled this project for far too long.

 

Third. I am not bashing the city.  If you want to perceive it that way, then that's fine.  All I'm doing is stating facts.  Contrary to your beliefs, I actually love Cincinnati.  I go to Reds, and Bengals games every year.  I have been to the National Underground Freedom Center (which is another screwup, what ever happened to not having to use tax payers dollars???), I go to the Taste of Cincinnati every year, and I go to Union Terminal once every couple of months.  I want to see Cincinnati be a vibrant community where people can go and have a great time no matter what their form of entertainment may be.  My brother lives in Clifton and I go up there regularly to see him and we go to many local bars and resteraunts.  That is why I have stated what I have.  Just because I love my city does not mean that I will not try and hold the leaders of this city accountable.  I'm not kicking the city on my way out, as I have never left the city.  I see it every day, but I will voice my opinion when I believe the city council is being ridiculous.  If I don't have any class, which seems to be your go to word when you disagree with someone, as is evident by some of your other posts because I try to hold city leaders accountable for their ineptitude then I am guilty as charged.  You call it bashing, I call it the real world.

 

And finally, Thank you I will enjoy my life in Dearborn County.  I can actually leave the windows rolled down on my car with a huge book of cd's laying on the seat, leave my front door unlocked, and go to sleep at night and know when I wake up in the morning everything will be just as I have left it.  That would never happen in Cincinnati.  When co-workers get their cars broken into, and get stuck up at knife point at the bus stop no less, I'm sorry but I'm not going to ignore that.  You can oversensationalize all you want with the whole bulletproofing and meadows and rabbits, which i enjoyed quite thoroughly actually, but here's the facts.  Is Dearborn County safer than Cincinnati? Yes it is.  Are taxpayer dollars being wasted because of infighting and greed in Dearborn County.  No there isn't.  Are we losing residents of gaining residents? Gaining them.  Are we gaining business or losing business?  Gaining business.  I love Cincinnati, and I'm glad you do too, but that doesn't mean that we just throw everything under the rug and not hold our city responsible for its actions.  Just the same as I wouldn't turn a blind eye to something one of my employees was doing wrong.  I sit them down, go over expectations, train them and coach them if I need to and then hold them accountable.  Why are we not doing the same with our city.

A few thoughts:

 

  - My job is not the only thing keeping me in Cincinnati.  I love my neighborhood, which is right on the border of Over-the-Rhine and the Central Business District.  Many of the neighborhoods in Cincinnati have a lot of character and conveniences.  THIS is what keeps me in the city.

 

- If you see a drug deal going on in broad daylight, PLEASE get a description of the people involved, the time and place, and call the police.  The phone number for Cincinnati's Police Dispatcher is 513-765-1212.  I keep this programmed in my cell phone.

 

- Do not rely solely on the media to get the complete story.  I am involved in a few groups in my community, and I hear way more things than I ever do from the newspaper.

From: cris3429

The crime rate in Cincinnati is still going up. 

 

actually it is going down

 

http://cincinnati-oh.gov/

 

look under quality of life index 2006, page 3

 

 

From: cris 3429

 

I go to Reds, and Bengals games every year. I have been to the National Underground Freedom Center (which is another screwup, what ever happened to not having to use tax payers dollars???), I go to the Taste of Cincinnati every year, and I go to Union Terminal once every couple of months.

 

So basically what you are saying is you get to enjoy all of the amenities of a major city without taking any responsiblity for the health and saftey of the community.

 

A few thoughts:

 

  - My job is not the only thing keeping me in Cincinnati.  I love my neighborhood, which is right on the border of Over-the-Rhine and the Central Business District.  Many of the neighborhoods in Cincinnati have a lot of character and conveniences.  THIS is what keeps me in the city.

 

- If you see a drug deal going on in broad daylight, PLEASE get a description of the people involved, the time and place, and call the police.  The phone number for Cincinnati's Police Dispatcher is 513-765-1212.  I keep this programmed in my cell phone.

 

- Do not rely solely on the media to get the complete story.  I am involved in a few groups in my community, and I hear way more things than I ever do from the newspaper.

 

Good for you.  I'm glad the city is accomodating your needs and you can enjoy the character of the city.  Ok let me revise.... one major reason for people staying in the city is jobs.

From: cris3429

The crime rate in Cincinnati is still going up. 

 

actually it is going down

 

http://cincinnati-oh.gov/

 

look under quality of life index 2006, page 3

 

 

 

Recently something like 15-20k people magically appeared in our city after we corrected the census error. Does that have any effect on the quality of life index?

A few thoughts:

 

  - My job is not the only thing keeping me in Cincinnati.  I love my neighborhood, which is right on the border of Over-the-Rhine and the Central Business District.  Many of the neighborhoods in Cincinnati have a lot of character and conveniences.  THIS is what keeps me in the city.

 

- If you see a drug deal going on in broad daylight, PLEASE get a description of the people involved, the time and place, and call the police.  The phone number for Cincinnati's Police Dispatcher is 513-765-1212.  I keep this programmed in my cell phone.

 

- Do not rely solely on the media to get the complete story.  I am involved in a few groups in my community, and I hear way more things than I ever do from the newspaper.

 

Thank you for the phone number.  It's now programmed in my phone as well.  I do take everything I read in the media with a grain of salt, but unfortunately it's the only way I can really get any news with the hectic life I have going on with work, school, marriage, and a kid on the way.  However, it does give me a good overall picture, unfortunately just not all of the nitty gritty details.