May 11, 20232 yr I hope the building doesn't get torn down. It's distinctive and different. I'd love to see some creative adaptive reuse!
May 11, 20232 yr Is there a reason Greyhound couldn't locate at the Stephanie Tubbs Jones transit center? It has some amenities and is downtown.
May 11, 20232 yr 2 hours ago, KJP said: Greyhound station leaving downtown By Ken Prendergast / May 11, 2023 Cleveland may soon join the list of medium- and large-sized cities whose central business districts have lost their Greyhound bus stations to less-accessible locations. And that’s of concern to low-income travelers, college students and others trying to save money or avoid the stress of driving while traveling to and from Cleveland’s station at 1465 Chester Ave., downtown. MORE: https://neo-trans.blog/2023/05/11/greyhound-station-leaving-downtown/ I don't think it's necessarily a bad idea to relocate to the Triskett Transit station. There should be some amenities added there however. It seems like a good idea to free up the Greyhound site for redevelopment hopefully while incorporating the existing structure.
May 11, 20232 yr Do a Public Records request, there is an above average 911 call volume to that address of a violent nature. I dont think moving to a residential area is the best idea. Maybe the lack of amenities will keep people moving and reduce the problems. Im NIMBY all the way if this was relocating near me
May 11, 20232 yr 1 hour ago, Ethan said: I hope the building doesn't get torn down. It's distinctive and different. I'd love to see some creative adaptive reuse! From what I understand, the developer wants to incorporate the building. Plus, it's a listed on the National Register of Historic Places so the developer can get historic tax credits to fix it up/convert it to new uses. 26 minutes ago, oblate said: Is there a reason Greyhound couldn't locate at the Stephanie Tubbs Jones transit center? It has some amenities and is downtown. Yes, it has a climate-controlled waiting room, restrooms and sheltered boarding areas. Megabus used to stop there. I asked GCRTA if Greyhound talked to them about STJ but I got no response. 9 minutes ago, ogibbigo said: Do a Public Records request, there is an above average 911 call volume to that address of a violent nature. I dont think moving to a residential area is the best idea. Maybe the lack of amenities will keep people moving and reduce the problems. Im NIMBY all the way if this was relocating near me Or the lack of food, bathrooms, shelter, etc. will cause passengers to leave garbage strewn around, relieve themselves in the bushes, or wander off in search of food. What a contrast to what the current station could soon become. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 11, 20232 yr 1 hour ago, KJP said: Yes, it has a climate-controlled waiting room, restrooms and sheltered boarding areas. Megabus used to stop there. I asked GCRTA if Greyhound talked to them about STJ but I got no response. Either STJ or Triskett should be something RTA is openly discussing with Greyhound. I fear the worst of a bench on Brookpark road however...
May 11, 20232 yr In reading Ken's article, unless I missed it, it sounds like Greyhound isn't looking to invest in any facilities wherever they continue to operate. It seems strange that they wouldn't want to operate at the proposed multi-modal facility on the lakefront. So, while they haven't committed operating out of the multi-modal facility, the lack of investment in permanent operational improvements elsewhere seems to suggest a desired flexibility to move again once the multi-modal facility is up and running.
May 11, 20232 yr 2 hours ago, Ethan said: I hope the building doesn't get torn down. It's distinctive and different. I'd love to see some creative adaptive reuse! Erie recently tore their (old) greyhound station down, it had been converted to a bar for years but now it's an open lot with plans for an arcade - we'll see if that happens. Cleveland can't afford to lose our example of Art Moderne architecture. Erie's former Greyhound station.
May 11, 20232 yr Is there a reason Greyhound couldn't locate at the Stephanie Tubbs Jones transit center? It has some amenities and is downtown.STJ literally is perfect, I feel that RTA NEEDS to make this happen. I don’t see why they wouldn’t want to.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
May 11, 20232 yr 14 minutes ago, GISguy said: Erie recently tore their (old) greyhound station down, it had been converted to a bar for years but now it's an open lot with plans for an arcade - we'll see if that happens. Cleveland can't afford to lose our example of Art Moderne architecture. Erie's former Greyhound station. This little group of buildings is great and it should never be torn down. *Damn, I just realized that was what was torn down. SMH. Edited May 11, 20232 yr by Toddguy
May 11, 20232 yr Wow, that is pretty shocking news. I've had more than my share of overnight Cleveland-Chicago Greyhound experiences, and while there was clear deterioration of services throughout the years, it sure beat Amtrak's bulls-hit hours and Megabus' ghost buses. Crime and panhandling never seemed bad inside; outside, however, well, it was what it was. Being by the Allerton apartments didn't help.
May 11, 20232 yr Greyhound has obviously been in a death spiral for a long time. It seems as if they are trying to accelerate it, though, with these decisions to put bus facilities in areas with no transit or even pedestrian access. How many people with a car want to take Greyhound? At least Cleveland's station will be on a rapid line (hopefully). And at least we're likely to get a significant development in place of a station for a dying bus line.
May 11, 20232 yr 50 minutes ago, GISguy said: Erie recently tore their (old) greyhound station down, it had been converted to a bar for years but now it's an open lot with plans for an arcade - we'll see if that happens. Cleveland can't afford to lose our example of Art Moderne architecture. Erie's former Greyhound station. I still can’t believe they tore that down. Had a lot of great times in that building, from when it was Park Place Billards during my time living in Erie in the early 2000’s, to later on when it was part of Coconut Joe’s. It’s not like the building was run down. Disheartening.
May 11, 20232 yr I’ve rarely seen a Greyhound bus that didn’t have plenty of open seats - it’s not like years ago where that was seldom the case. I wonder why Greyhound hasn’t tried to offer newer smaller vehicles that could prove more comfortable for passengers and lower cost for operations. At least on certain routes where data proves it could be done. Meanwhile, let the speculation begin as to what can happen with that unique and pretty classy looking station. Hopefully, the right developer sees some exciting possibilities.
May 11, 20232 yr 1 hour ago, Luke_S said: In reading Ken's article, unless I missed it, it sounds like Greyhound isn't looking to invest in any facilities wherever they continue to operate. It seems strange that they wouldn't want to operate at the proposed multi-modal facility on the lakefront. So, while they haven't committed operating out of the multi-modal facility, the lack of investment in permanent operational improvements elsewhere seems to suggest a desired flexibility to move again once the multi-modal facility is up and running. Seems like Greyhound want to simply operate buses, not bus stations. If someone else builds the multi-modal, I’d imagine they’d be straight back into it. In the meantime Triskett seems like a bizarrely poor choice when STJ is right there. I am excited to see what can become of the Chester Ave site though. My hovercraft is full of eels
May 11, 20232 yr @KJP -- we are all eagerly awaiting your scoop on the development proposals for this site. Please don't disappoint. 😄
May 15, 20232 yr On 5/11/2023 at 6:55 AM, KJP said: Greyhound station may leave downtown By Ken Prendergast / May 11, 2023 Cleveland may soon join the list of medium- and large-sized cities whose central business districts have lost their Greyhound bus stations to less-accessible locations. And that’s of concern to low-income travelers, college students and others trying to save money or avoid the stress of driving while traveling to and from Cleveland’s station at 1465 Chester Ave., downtown. MORE: https://neo-trans.blog/2023/05/11/greyhound-station-leaving-downtown/ Updated the article. County officials have joined the fray and will attempt to keep Greyhound downtown. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 15, 20232 yr 39 minutes ago, KJP said: Updated the article. County officials have joined the fray and will attempt to keep Greyhound downtown. Hopefully they could find a better location for the station. Couple years back when I took the greyhound for school it was often delayed by a couple hours and the boarding took awhile. It would probably suck waiting at a rapid station and probably be crowded having tons of people waiting for different bus routes.
May 15, 20232 yr 23 minutes ago, nokoeeee said: Hopefully they could find a better location for the station. Couple years back when I took the greyhound for school it was often delayed by a couple hours and the boarding took awhile. It would probably suck waiting at a rapid station and probably be crowded having tons of people waiting for different bus routes. The NYC Port Authority Bus Terminal has entered the chat... 😂
May 16, 20232 yr I travelled from Kansas City to St. Louis last year on a Greyhound and to the naked eye the overwhelming majority of passengers were within a low income bracket. I actually was sat next to someone who was travelling back from California to PA for a funeral that they couldn't afford to fly for and they were not going to put their car through the wear and tear of that trip. Funnily enough that trip was delayed by inclement weather so I dread to think how much worse a situation like that would be sitting at a bench in the suburbs open to the elements. The staff I've had have been great but Greyhound just come across to me as a company with a no frills business model on a par with ULCC airlines who will happily fly to places in the arse end of nowhere if it saves a penny or two. Sadly as flying is generally over longer distances and time consuming there's more of a window to get away with that compared to bus travel. Glad to see the relevant authorities are fighting to keep the traffic Downtown but Greyhound strike me as not really giving a s**t. Edited May 16, 20232 yr by snakebite
May 16, 20232 yr 9 hours ago, snakebite said: Glad to see the relevant authorities are fighting to keep the traffic Downtown but Greyhound strike me as not really giving a s**t. I took greyhound from Pittsburgh to Cleveland earlier this year, and the full-service PGH station was virtually unstaffed except for the bus drivers. The bus was delayed by at least an hour without any communication, no one was working to answer questions or even direct people to the correct platform, and the driver who was more focused on getting the bus moving was shouting at confused passengers asking for directions. I think greyhound stopped giving a s**t a while ago. That said, being able to use BRT to and from both stations meant I could make the entire trip pretty easily without a car. Hopefully this remains the case—from what I noticed many passengers were fairly young, probably unable to afford a car or without a license, or both. And unless you want to take amtrak in the middle of the night, there’s pretty much no other affordable car-free option to Pittsburgh. Edit: the bus was just about 100% full (I think it had been coming from Baltimore or DC), if anyone’s skeptical about demand. Edited May 16, 20232 yr by sonisharri
May 16, 20232 yr In the last thirty years, Greyhound has been bankrupt twice and acquired three times. The common thread running those years was lousy labor relations. Their business plan was in constant flux. It's a miracle they survived. They are currently German-owned, but I don't know how deep the German pockets are. Don't expect them to spend a single extra dollar to maintain a terminal downtown. The city's offer of occupancy at a transit hub would probably have to be for no more than the city's variable costs due to Greyhound tenancy. Remember: It's the Year of the Snake
May 16, 20232 yr STJ transit center is underutilized, right? RTA should lease a bay to greyhound/barons for cheap. Edited May 16, 20232 yr by Whipjacka
May 16, 20232 yr Would STJ be big enough to handle the volume, both with buses/staff and passengers? I can see it as a very temporary measure, but it really would need to be expanded significantly.
May 16, 20232 yr 1 hour ago, Whipjacka said: STJ transit center is underutilized, right? RTA should lease a bay to greyhound/barons for cheap. Only the 55 route services STJ. 1 hour ago, TBideon said: Would STJ be big enough to handle the volume, both with buses/staff and passengers? I can see it as a very temporary measure, but it really would need to be expanded significantly. Easily. STJ used to handle dozens of buses per hour. Now it sees an hourly maximum of 4-6 buses during rush hours only. Greyhound/Barons has only 30 buses per day. This was STJ in Sept. 2022. This is how it looks for most of the day and all night. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 16, 20232 yr Does anyone know why such a newer and undoubtedly expensive asset like STJ is so underutilized by RTA?
May 16, 20232 yr It is about 13 years old, and the world has changed quite a bit since 2010. Plus Megabus is long gone, which makes it more barren. At least it was built with federal bank for once. Edited May 16, 20232 yr by TBideon
May 17, 20232 yr 18 hours ago, gruver said: Does anyone know why such a newer and undoubtedly expensive asset like STJ is so underutilized by RTA? Really not around anything (CSU being the exception) and probably a lot less convenient than having transfers on Public Square. Edited May 17, 20232 yr by GISguy
May 17, 20232 yr 22 hours ago, gruver said: Does anyone know why such a newer and undoubtedly expensive asset like STJ is so underutilized by RTA? RTA's transit plan 15 years ago was to have two downtown transit centers -- one on the east side of downtown (STJ) and another on the west side of downtown (as part of a Forest City Enterprises development on the Warehouse District Superblock where Sherwin-Williams HQ is rising now). The buses from the west side would turn back at the East Side transit center and the buses from the east side would turn back at the west side transit center. The objective was to have extremely frequent transit service across downtown, using East 17th/18th as one-way pairs to Superior which would become the non-HealthLine transit corridor across downtown. Then came the Great Recession of 2008 which destroyed GCRTA's sales taxes revenues and ridership at a time of high fuel costs. Over the next few years, GCRTA jacked up fares and slashed bus and rail services by 20 percent. Ridership fell even further than that. I recall STJ being heavily used when it first opened in 2010 but that didn't last long. I occasionally greeted friends at STJ because they took Megabus there. I rode the #55 once to STJ to catch Megabus in 2016. But by then it was already barely used. I recall only the #55, Megabus and the Euclid trolley serving it by that point. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 17, 20232 yr i hate to be dumb - But what exactly is the purpose of this RTA STJ transit Center? i guess they had Megabus there - but that is gone. What do they do at a transit center?
May 17, 20232 yr Cuyahoga County agrees to demolish Juvenile Court Building (paywalled) https://www.cleveland.com/news/2023/05/cuyahoga-county-agrees-to-demolish-juvenile-court-building-enabling-innerbelt-cap-designed-to-heal-a-racial-scar.html Edited May 17, 20232 yr by LibertyBlvd
May 17, 20232 yr If the idea was that we'd be tearing down a symbol of oppression for some folks, I'd be more sympathetic, but I truly don't understand how that building at all impedes capping the freeway. It's nice looking older building in a town that is replete with grass lots where cool historic buildings used to be. I don't get why something like this isn't possible instead.
May 18, 20232 yr This is moronic. I expected better from Ronayne led county. The juvy center is just begging to be a college dormitory, in the “CAMPUS DISTRICT”. But here we are. Destroy everything. JFC
May 19, 20232 yr Greyhound Story. https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/local-news/local-greyhound-riders-share-concerns-after-sale-of-downtown-bus-terminal
May 21, 20232 yr On 5/19/2023 at 12:53 PM, simplythis said: Greyhound Story. https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/local-news/local-greyhound-riders-share-concerns-after-sale-of-downtown-bus-terminal Thanks for posting this article @simplythis. While I am excited about the potential adaptive reuse of this great building as a catalyst for a significant mix-use development, I have some misgivings about the the lost of such an important source of transportation in the downtown area. When I was a student at CIA in the mid/late 70’s, I took the greyhound many times to my childhood home in Florida. Long trip, but it was easily assessable from University Circle and all I could afford. I’ve sat and waited in that spacious waiting room many times. It’s such an an architectural significant building that it could be a great centerpiece for a new development in the Theater District, but its function is extremely important to this area. Perhaps they can move the Greyhound station close nearby, or maybe it will end up as part of a multimodal transportation center on the lakefront.
May 21, 20232 yr yep, i've taken the greyhound there a few times at its great to have it right downtown. however ... i strongly love the idea to rehab it into something else and let it be a catylst for redevelopment all around it. sjt and triskett are fine alternatives for greyhound. i would say use both -- one could focus on eastern routes and the other western? cle is very lucky to have ready made options like that. also -- i think one of the reasons greyhound is slowly faltering away for decades besides internal issues is they have tremendous competiton (ie., i recently took a flix bus from nyc to binghampton, great website and it was fine). a lot of these alternative/pop up bus companies are chinese run. your safety varies lol, but generally they are fine and they run a tighter ship than greyhound. and i see that often they have newer busses. this should be encouraged so they can have space at the new bus station site or sites (hopefully both sjt and triskett are used, spread the love!).
May 21, 20232 yr On 5/17/2023 at 3:08 PM, LibertyBlvd said: Cuyahoga County agrees to demolish Juvenile Court Building (paywalled) https://www.cleveland.com/news/2023/05/cuyahoga-county-agrees-to-demolish-juvenile-court-building-enabling-innerbelt-cap-designed-to-heal-a-racial-scar.html this is infuriating. the old juvenile justice center is a diamond in the rough. don't tough anything, just redevelop it. and for a highway? for shame. i dont care that its for a cap, its highway priority related. will we ever learn??? build around it yeesh.
May 21, 20232 yr I found the directors praise of demo-ing quite confusing “correcting history”… were correcting history by taking down architectural history?
May 21, 20232 yr 1 hour ago, BoomerangCleRes said: I found the directors praise of demo-ing quite confusing “correcting history”… were correcting history by taking down architectural history? I found it telling that they went out of their way to add irrelevant info on the unjust "adult" treatment of juveniles there, as if that somehow weighs in on any aspect of renovation. How small is too small for apartments? Aren't affordable micro units all the rage now anyhow?
May 21, 20232 yr 2 hours ago, mrnyc said: i think one of the reasons greyhound is slowly faltering away for decades besides internal issues is they have tremendous competiton (ie., i recently took a flix bus from nyc to binghampton, great website and it was fine). isn’t Greyhound owned by FlixBus now?
May 21, 20232 yr ^ i dk, could be? there are other bus companies too though. 1 hour ago, surfohio said: I found it telling that they went out of their way to add irrelevant info on the unjust "adult" treatment of juveniles there, as if that somehow weighs in on any aspect of renovation. How small is too small for apartments? Aren't affordable micro units all the rage now anyhow? ive toured it, its not just for jail dorms to apts, its got large school classrooms and lots of other facilities and spaces. its totally appropriate for all types of reuse, like training center, care center, hostel/hotel, housing, biz startups, etc., etc.. they don’t build’em like that anymore, its a gem of a campus and all of it should be held on to and preserved until someone can figure out how to best use it.
May 22, 20232 yr 6 hours ago, sonisharri said: isn’t Greyhound owned by FlixBus now? Yes "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 22, 20232 yr i would think greyhound/flix moving from a greyhound station to sjt and/or triskett would open the door wider to other bus companies to join the party, like other big legacy bus lines like peter pan and coach, as well as the chinatown and other more fly by night carriers. i guess we’ll see what happens.
May 22, 20232 yr 21 hours ago, mrnyc said: ive toured it, its not just for jail dorms to apts, its got large school classrooms and lots of other facilities and spaces. its totally appropriate for all types of reuse, like training center, care center, hostel/hotel, housing, biz startups, etc., etc.. they don’t build’em like that anymore, its a gem of a campus and all of it should be held on to and preserved until someone can figure out how to best use it. Ya know? Thinking about it, the potential kind of reminds me of the (former) Hotel Henry (apparently now Hotel Richardson) in Buffalo. It only took up a portion of the sprawling Richardson Olmsted Complex in Buffalo but man that is a cool hotel and a great example of historic reuse. Only downside was due to the nature of the building being a former psych hospital tipsy me got a tad confused when finding our room. I think investment in the community would be a bit more beneficial than putting another bridge over the highway - that area is very quiet on most days that I bike through I don't think capping the freeway will do much. On the other hand, activating the space and giving Tri-C students and CSU students a reason to congregate over there would probably do wonders (wishful thinking I know). FWIW council pushed back on Ronayne's idea saying he couldn't unilaterally say that and needs their approval. What could be possible (with a lot of investment hah): https://www.getawaymavens.com/hotel-henry-history/ Edited May 22, 20232 yr by GISguy added pics
May 22, 20232 yr I'm not very familiar with the JCC, so I can't comment on its loss, but I do like the reorientation of the roads that accompanies capping the overpass. The Cedar Ave overpass and Carnegie off-ramp are both removed. This makes the on-ramp intersection for Carnegie much less complicated and opens up a larger parcel with development potential across from the Wolstein Center. Removing the off-ramp to Carnegie opens up an even larger parcel between Carnegie and Cedar. Traffic at the South end of the overpass might become an issue with Cedar and Central so close to one another and a seemingly short ramp from 90, but overall I think it's an improvement.
May 22, 20232 yr ^ In the above image I see a prettied-up E 22 St. bridge, but I am not clear on what constitutes the "cap."
May 22, 20232 yr ^ That brings up an interesting question. How wide does a bridge have to be to be considered a cap? Cause I agree, this looks more like a nice multi modal bridge, it's not what I think of when I hear "cap."
May 22, 20232 yr 11 minutes ago, Ethan said: ^ That brings up an interesting question. How wide does a bridge have to be to be considered a cap? Cause I agree, this looks more like a nice multi modal bridge, it's not what I think of when I hear "cap." I would consider something a "cap" when it is wide enough to accommodate some additional other than transportation use like retail or a park.
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