November 13, 200816 yr eesh. i just took a look and answered my own question. Nat City employees roughly 2,000 people in Pittsburgh, including almost 200,000 sf over 10 floors of the National City Center in downtown Pittsburgh. I would think that Pittsburgh would have to lose at least as many jobs if not more than cleveland. Cleveland has roughly 8,500 NCC employees. 1,500 at call center... apparently staying 4,500 at branches... with litterally zero PNC presence here, I think it's safe to say those jobs stay. 2,500 at Downtown headquarters (am I the only one often surprised to here how few employees work at some of these headquarters?). Obviously all in jeopardy, but again, I don't think it makes any sense for them to eliminate all these jobs. It will probably be at least initially only redundant departments and some executives. But they will also have to probably bring some executives in from Pittsburgh to head up the transition... 1,200 losses? Pittsburgh has 2,000 jobs, all at bank branches surrounded by PNC branches, and a regional headquarters right next to the new company headquarters. My guess is every person working in that regional headquarters has someone that does their exact job in the PNC headquarters building. I think this is actually going to suck for Cleveland, and be a blood bath in Pittsburgh.
November 13, 200816 yr I mean they can't come into a market where they have zero presence and put a blowtorch to the downtown headquarters. I mean who is going to put their money in a bank that just decimated your downtowns workforce? Everyone would pull out and march over to key. Bingo. That's my plan. And frankly, they'd probably have to keep over 90% of the jobs in Cleveland for me to deviate from that plan. But that could just be me because of my hatred for the Steelers.
November 14, 200816 yr Instead of marching to Key, one could also march to Firstmerit, Third Federal, or any of the other small independent banks as well. They don't have branches all over the country, but they are stable and committed to the surrounding community. Competition is good! Right freemarketeers?
November 15, 200816 yr This continues to piss me off-I just hate to see 168 years go down the drain. Watch the video at the bottom-and there are others if you search NCB bailout on youtube. National City's bailout application never seriously considered Posted by Sabrina Eaton/Plain Dealer Bureau November 14, 2008 18:39PM Categories: Banks, Breaking News, Economy, Real Time News Mark Lennihan/Associated Press Interim Assistant Treasury Secretary Neel Kashkari speaks early this week at a news conference.WASHINGTON -- National City Bank's application for federal bailout funds never got serious consideration because the bank was too weak to survive anyway, a Treasury Department official testified Friday. Regulators who screen bailout applications decided not to send National City's application to the office that dispenses money, Interim Assistant Treasury Secretary Neel Kashkari told a House subcommittee chaired by Cleveland Democratic Rep. Dennis Kucinich. More at http://blog.cleveland.com/business/2008/11/national_citys_bailout_applica.html http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5GW2uh0k4A#
November 15, 200816 yr Go get em, Dennis!! Dammit!! National City was deemed to fail by regulators, huh? Cleveland is getting screwed by our own federal government.
November 15, 200816 yr I think the title of this thread should be changed to PNC Bank News/Info This is not complete. NCC and PNC are still operating as competing company's.
November 15, 200816 yr Kucinich is a sleazeball. I hope people start going prison. Brilliant statement... Congressman Kucinich is doing his job, and in the video doing it quite well. He is asking the tough pointed questions that deserve answers. We need to find out the role that the Comptroller of the Currency, John Dugan, played in "..pushing NCB off a cliff"; as well as the role of these credit rating agencies and short sellers. It is suspicious to say the least that Dugans' former client was PNC, and if you believe that imprisonable offenses have occurred than I believe the "sleazeball" Congressman agrees with you, and is trying to do your bidding.
November 16, 200816 yr I think the title of this thread should be changed to PNC Bank News/Info This is not complete. NCC and PNC are still operating as competing company's. MTS, you're so predictable ... ;)
November 16, 200816 yr MTS, you're so predictable ... ;) Likewise! It was obvious you would say this as indicated in your recent posts. Don't be a hater! It's not sexy.
November 16, 200816 yr I think the title of this thread should be changed to PNC Bank News/Info This is not complete. NCC and PNC are still operating as competing company's. This does seem to be about complete. They are expecting to close the deal within the next month or so, and then the changes will start. This is bad news for Cleveland given the loss of corporate/exec level jobs, but as has been pointed out it will also hurt Pittsburgh (and several other cities including Cincy) due to the branch overlap.
November 16, 200816 yr Cleveland is getting screwed by our own federal government. Yep. But don't feel too bad, because you're not alone. Intentionally or unintentionally, that's what the federal government does.
November 16, 200816 yr Kucinich is a sleazeball. I hope people start going prison. Brilliant statement... Congressman Kucinich is doing his job, and in the video doing it quite well. He is asking the tough pointed questions that deserve answers. We need to find out the role that the Comptroller of the Currency, John Dugan, played in "..pushing NCB off a cliff"; as well as the role of these credit rating agencies and short sellers. It is suspicious to say the least that Dugans' former client was PNC, and if you believe that imprisonable offenses have occurred than I believe the "sleazeball" Congressman agrees with you, and is trying to do your bidding. I meant Kashkari. The names look similar.
November 16, 200816 yr Kashkari and Kucinich look similar?!? And you watched the video and STILL came to that conclusion? Croatian and Indian - similar? I mean, growing up in eastern Ohio bumpkinville, you'd think I'D be the one making statements like that. :roll: clevelandskyscrapers.com Cleveland Skyscrapers on Instagram
November 16, 200816 yr how will this affect NCB's other markets such as Columbus, Dayton, and Detroit?
November 19, 200816 yr <a href="http://blog.cleveland.com/business/2008/11/paulson_to_explain_tarp_spendi.html">Rep. Steve LaTourette seeks help from President Bush to stop National City sale</a> Posted by Sabrina Eaton, Stephen Koff and Teresa Dixon Murray/ Plain Dealer Reporters November 18, 2008 09:51AM Categories: Banks, Breaking News, Economy, National City, Real Time News Updated 6:54 p.m. WASHINGTON -- National City Bank weathered the Civil War and the Great Depression, but it couldn't survive a Treasury Department plan that was supposed to help banks. So a Northeast Ohio congressman on Tuesday called a higher authority: President Bush. This was the latest attempt by Rep. Steve LaTourette, Republican of Bainbridge Township, to keep the Cleveland bank from a year-end, fire-sale purchase by PNC Financial Services Group of Pittsburgh. More at cleveland.com http://blog.cleveland.com/business/2008/11/paulson_to_explain_tarp_spendi.html
November 19, 200816 yr Hold on MTS...I don't think this is all good. As bad as NCC going dark is for Cleveland and all of the other communities mentioned on here, the reality is the damage has already been done. For the past month all the nation has heard is that NCC is a bad bank that had to be forced into a sale so that it would not fail. I know that NCC obtained 7 billion in the spring, and is well capitalized and all, but perception is soooooo much of reality. How will Cleveland be impacted if LaTourette is successful, NCC is saved, and 3-6 months later the bank completely fails...not because it is in so much trouble on paper but because of perception...because outside of the Cleveland area, no one has as deep of a vested interest in the banks survival and as such they simply pull their money out of the bank...and other banks and institutions refuse to do business with NCC due to the fear. I think any effort to save the bank now must also include additional funds and protections put into place to restore confidence in NCC. Otherwise the bank will fail...and that would be even more disasterous for Cleveland...its psyche and its employment base (most likely all jobs lost...PNC will certainly need some of NCC workforce). I'm not trying to be down on NCC when they're low...I've been a loyal customer since my college days...but I'm also trying to be realistic about whats best for the region given the severe damage this press has done to the bank. The destruction of NCC's reputation, which is still a very good bank despite all of the bad press, is the real crime in all of this, and that's whats killed NCC.
November 19, 200816 yr that wasn't a "hell yes" they've been saved, but a "hell yes" someone took a stand.
November 19, 200816 yr Oh ok...you're right...it is good to see a local official getting passionate about something...but I do wonder what all the UO posters think about NCC's prospects for survival should the PNC deal be stopped for whatever reason.
November 19, 200816 yr I think it would survive. I've taken my money out but for a customer service issue.
November 19, 200816 yr I think another bank would step in. If that were the case, I would like the Mega-Asian version please with a side of community development - SUPER SIZE ME!
November 19, 200816 yr Yes NCC's reputation has been tarnished but not irrevocably. Remember the only way this buyout is stopped is if it gets proven that they were indeed strong enough to be saved, and that it was likely the unscrupulous involvement of Dugan that prevented them from being reviewed for TARP money. That would become much bigger news than the PNC buyout and likely a national headline. Corruption in the very earliest of TARP money use, another stain on the Bush administration just as they're transitioning from power. The facts of their financial stability prior to this debacle would be front page news and should go a long way in restoring consumer confidence. Nonetheless if this is stopped, they should get extra TARP money just in case they struggle to get past this damage.
November 19, 200816 yr Interesting way to look at it...evidence of a corrupt deal would show that the bank was stronger than everyone was led to believe...
November 20, 200816 yr Yes, you too can apply for TARP money from the feds. I know most will find this boring but below is the link to apply for TARP money from the federal goverment. It is kind of long, so go to the link if you want to read the whole thing. Pretty interesting. http://www.ustreas.gov/press/releases/reports/applicationguidelines.pdf Application Guidelines for TARP Capital Purchase Program This application is used to request participation in the Treasury Capital Purchase Program (CPP). Under the CPP, the U.S. Department of the Treasury (Treasury) may purchase qualifying capital in U.S. banking organizations. The application must be submitted to the appropriate Federal banking agency (FBA) for the applicant. If the applicant is a bank holding company, the application should be submitted to both the applicant's holding company supervisor and the supervisor of the largest insured depository institution controlled by the applicant. All inquiries regarding preparation of the application should be directed to the appropriate FBA for the applicant. All applications must be submitted no later than 5pm (EST), November 14, 2008... (go to link)
November 20, 200816 yr Saw a flyer for a "Save National City" site... what does it say when the site has a photo of the Baltimore skyline on their homepage? :roll: http://www.savencb.com/ They're supposed to have a rally at noon on Friday at Public Square. clevelandskyscrapers.com Cleveland Skyscrapers on Instagram
November 20, 200816 yr Saw a flyer for a "Save National City" site... what does it say when the site has a photo of the Baltimore skyline on their homepage? ::) http://www.savencb.com/ They're supposed to have a rally at noon on Friday at Public Square. Well, I know I rarely check my spelling or grammer when I post, but RNR would have a field day with the grammatical errors on that webpage.
November 20, 200816 yr That's an amazing picture of Cleveland on the website - I don't think I've ever seen the city from that angle. It looks bigger somehow
November 20, 200816 yr That's an amazing picture of Cleveland on the website - I don't think I've ever seen the city from that angle. It looks bigger somehow LMAO! ..and I doubt you ever will
November 20, 200816 yr That's an amazing picture of Cleveland on the website - I don't think I've ever seen the city from that angle. It looks bigger somehow Just an fyi, Baltimore's tallest is 529', same height as the Tower at Erieview. clevelandskyscrapers.com Cleveland Skyscrapers on Instagram
November 20, 200816 yr especially when the site is registered to one of Clevelands own: Dan T. Moore Co. 127 Public Square Suite 2700 oh well its the thought that counts. at least he is making an effort
November 20, 200816 yr Maybe it's this browser, but for me there's no picture at all. Just black background and text.
November 20, 200816 yr ^^ I sent them an email after reading MayDay's post. Maybe they removed the photo after realizing their laughable error.
November 21, 200816 yr If the government puts a stop on the deal the FDIC will shut NCB down anyway shortly thereafter so why waste the time.
November 21, 200816 yr If the government puts a stop on the deal the FDIC will shut NCB down anyway shortly thereafter so why waste the time. Can you explain why? I'm not in banking and really don't understand.
November 25, 200816 yr If the government puts a stop on the deal the FDIC will shut NCB down anyway shortly thereafter so why waste the time. Can you explain why? I'm not in banking and really don't understand. Because Nat City is in a weakened position. Putting a stop to the deal would is just that, the Fed has already rejected Nat Citys request for bailout money. Therefore, they are left with 2 options, try and make it on their own, and fail because effectively the government has given them a vote of no confidence, or find a suitable partner to merge with.
November 25, 200816 yr The other thing to chew over is that the commercial mortgage market is the next shoe and NatCity would likely get hit by that as well. It seems that Key and 5/3 are both under continuing pressure due to the exposure to that market even though they've been touched by the TARPgod.
November 25, 200816 yr If the government puts a stop on the deal the FDIC will shut NCB down anyway shortly thereafter so why waste the time. How 'bout to prevent corruption once more from this pathetic administration. They should take as much time as they need. Have you not read the concerns of previous posters, yes including myself.
November 26, 200816 yr Regardless of whether or not the administration sucks, The administration did not get Nat city in its mess, Nat City did it to itself.
November 26, 200816 yr ^^ And Citigroup didn't??? Exactly Hts44121, they are going through this Tarp thing by the seat of their pants, there isnt a whole lot of logic to it. "Citibank is too large to allow to fail"... "they are getting the money to prevent panic".... Then the Feds should have broke up the company... Its really unfortunate that Cleveland will be a loser in regard to these questionable, inconsistent and illogical decisions.
November 26, 200816 yr Just be glad we don't live in the Inland Empire of California. They have already lost three of their main banks - U.S. Bank took two of them and their from Minnesota (and Milwaukee and Cincinnati).
November 26, 200816 yr ^^ And Citigroup didn't??? Dead on. Tell me one company who is receiving government help that wasn't responsbile for its own demise. At least with National City they had realized the error of their ways (albeit too late apparently...according to the government) and had taken steps to develop a revised business plan to ensure sustainability in the future. Meanwhile, GM, Chrysler, Ford...keep cranking out gas guzzling SUV's, not completing a full market life cycle with your sedans, and generally make horrible marketing and prodcution decisions and we'll step up and save you everytime (as some clown in DC starts looking up Lee Iacocca's phone number).
November 26, 200816 yr I'd also like to know whether the bank execs carpooled or flew to DC. This seems to be a huge issue for the auto industry, while AIG gets away with multiple spa/resort weekends. Unbelievable double standard.
November 26, 200816 yr I'd also like to know whether the bank execs carpooled or flew to DC. This seems to be a huge issue for the auto industry, while AIG gets away with multiple spa/resort weekends. Unbelievable double standard. Regardless of a Double-standard or not. Its a clusterfuck! They are trying to create a car pool caravan to drum up support. Let them fall - hard and fast!
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