actually, via a friend with nat city now a part of pnc, that building will be more filled with employees than ever before.  Granted it is a substantial loss of jobs and tax revenue for the city, but as far as employment at this building, numbers will actually go up.  Nat city leased several other buildings in the city and suburbs. With the exception of the call center which will remain pretty much as is... PNC is consolidating remaining employees into this building (as they own it), and ridding themselves of leases elsewhere.

You'll throw up more if they put a Pittsburgh Steelers logo in that empty circular frame atop the building!

 

 

KJP, I used to love you.  Now, I'm going to have to put you in the same category as my skank-in-law.  I had such high hopes for you. 

i like how everyone assumes that it will be gutted when to assign naming rights a certian percentage of the building must be filled by that company.  Im sure its not as high as 80% of the company to assign naming rights but I would imagine that it is more than 30%.  If I am wrong then please correct me.  And yes NCB did have a large amount of leased/owned building in surrounding area that are being consolidated.

 

Anthoner good thing about the new sign -> it will be back lit and stand out more than the old ncc logo did imo.

i like how everyone assumes that it will be gutted when to assign naming rights a certian percentage of the building must be filled by that company. Im sure its not as high as 80% of the company to assign naming rights but I would imagine that it is more than 30%. If I am wrong then please correct me. And yes NCB did have a large amount of leased/owned building in surrounding area that are being consolidated.

 

Anthoner good thing about the new sign -> it will be back lit and stand out more than the old ncc logo did imo.

 

Im not saying the building will be gutted, I meant it as I am gutted by the sight of PNC on top of the building.

I am really struggling with the decision of whether to move my money.  I've always had an account with NCB, even when I lived out-of-state.  I guess it's best to wait and see what kind of investment PNC is going to make in the local community, especially the philanthropic gestures NCB was known for, and react accordingly.

 

i like how everyone assumes that it will be gutted when to assign naming rights a certian percentage of the building must be filled by that company. Im sure its not as high as 80% of the company to assign naming rights but I would imagine that it is more than 30%. If I am wrong then please correct me.

 

Pretty sure the owner of a building can call it whatever they want; no?

They got the logo in place this afternoon.

 

They got the logo in place this afternoon.

 

HA!  Too funny!

actually, via a friend with nat city now a part of pnc, that building will be more filled with employees than ever before. Granted it is a substantial loss of jobs and tax revenue for the city, but as far as employment at this building, numbers will actually go up. Nat city leased several other buildings in the city and suburbs. With the exception of the call center which will remain pretty much as is... PNC is consolidating remaining employees into this building (as they own it), and ridding themselves of leases elsewhere.

 

pnc is getting rid of only 1 building that i know possibly 2. they rent space in the areospace building by the airport, i know people are moving out of there but i dont know if they are shutting it down. Also they have a building where a lot of the technology staff (contractors) was in strongsville, i've heard from people who i work with that is is pretty much a ghost town there. those 2 i think on the chopping block from what i know. the w 150th will be kept because they house a lot of their data warehouse and support structure there, the becksville center will be kept. it currently houses collections and loan processing  and their support staff. the highland hills building will be kept because they own it, it will be possibly be home to all the retail support staff, and of course they will be keeping downtown.

National City, no longer a part of PNC.  Just PNC.... barf.

It still exists for me!  My Missouri-based bank account doesn't switch til June, hehehe!

those blue banners are nauseating.  that makes me want to set them on fire or something.

those blue banners are nauseating.  that makes me want to set them on fire or something.

 

That the same thing I thought about the woman "outfit" in the picture.

Article in today's Seattle Paper says Wa MU was railroaded by Feds.  If that is true NCB was triple railroaded.

The one with the white hose and the cig? Yeah, that's nice.  You know who should wear white hose? Nurses.  That's it.

From a customer perspective, the conversion was seamless...a new debit card that I could activate at the ATM and getting used to the new online banking format...pretty painless.

From a customer perspective, the conversion was seamless...a new debit card that I could activate at the ATM and getting used to the new online banking format...pretty painless.

 

my Mom would disagree. They sent her 2 different debit cards and neither were connected to her account.

From a customer perspective, the conversion was seamless...a new debit card that I could activate at the ATM and getting used to the new online banking format...pretty painless.

 

my Mom would disagree. They sent her 2 different debit cards and neither were connected to her account.

 

The credit card the mister had through Nat City seems to have vanished.  PNC hasn't sent him a new one, and it's not listed in his accounts online. 

I've heard mixed reviews.  The Wife's mom had trouble with an account transfering but her name was spelled wrong on the account info, which probably had been wrong from the beginning so not necessarily PNC's fault. 

 

It still exists for me! My Missouri-based bank account doesn't switch til June, hehehe!

 

Why on earth are you signed up through Mizzou? 

From a customer perspective, the conversion was seamless...a new debit card that I could activate at the ATM and getting used to the new online banking format...pretty painless.

 

my Mom would disagree. They sent her 2 different debit cards and neither were connected to her account.

 

Surprised they got them out that fast...quick turn around between Friday and today (or presumably yesterday).

I've heard mixed reviews. The Wife's mom had trouble with an account transfering but her name was spelled wrong on the account info, which probably had been wrong from the beginning so not necessarily PNC's fault.

 

It still exists for me! My Missouri-based bank account doesn't switch til June, hehehe!

 

Why on earth are you signed up through Mizzou?

 

Just never moved it.  I'll close that account after our wedding.

Article in today's Seattle Paper says Wa MU was railroaded by Feds.  If that is true NCB was triple railroaded.

 

NO.  NCB was badly managed!  It wasn't all the governments doing.  But lets not go there.  What's done is done.

From a customer perspective, the conversion was seamless...a new debit card that I could activate at the ATM and getting used to the new online banking format...pretty painless.

 

From a stockholder perspective the transition was not seamless.

As an NCB/PNC customer, I thought that the transition went off without a hitch...unfortunately.  I really wanted them to give me a reason to move my account elsewhere.

I found this interesting. I am sure the merger team  didn't anticipate a drop this big. Sorry if this was posted before.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2010/10/pnc_loses_75_percent_of_deposi.html#incart_mce

 

PNC loses 75 percent of deposits, drops to No. 4 in size in Greater Cleveland

 

Published: Friday, October 08, 2010, 5:53 PM    Updated: Friday, October 08, 2010, 11:35 PM

Teresa Dixon Murray, The Plain Dealer

 

View full sizeAP filePNC headquarters in Pittsburgh.

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- PNC Bank has lost three-fourths of its local customer deposits in the past year, dropping it from Greater Cleveland's biggest bank to No. 4.

 

The revelation that local deposits dropped to $5 billion came in the latest annual report from the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp., one of the regulators of the nation's 8,000 banks.

 

The exodus of deposits from PNC pushed KeyCorp to No. 1 in Greater Cleveland, with nearly 22 percent of local deposits, even though Key lost more than $1 billion in local deposits in the past year. Key hasn't ranked in the top slot since 2004.

 

PNC also slipped from the No. 1 position in Ohio, allowing Fifth Third Bank to become the largest bank operating in the state. PNC last year had nearly $35 billion in deposits statewide and 15 percent of the market share. It now has about $26 billion and 11 percent of the Ohio market.

 

PNC bought National City at the end of 2008, but the lost deposits could reflect changes that occurred only in the past year. That's when the bank changed to the PNC name locally and converted customers to new account numbers and new types of accounts......

 

 

 

 

 

I found this interesting. I am sure the merger team didn't anticipate a drop this big. Sorry if this was posted before.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2010/10/pnc_loses_75_percent_of_deposi.html#incart_mce

 

PNC loses 75 percent of deposits, drops to No. 4 in size in Greater Cleveland

 

Published: Friday, October 08, 2010, 5:53 PM   Updated: Friday, October 08, 2010, 11:35 PM

Teresa Dixon Murray, The Plain Dealer

 

View full sizeAP filePNC headquarters in Pittsburgh.

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- PNC Bank has lost three-fourths of its local customer deposits in the past year, dropping it from Greater Cleveland's biggest bank to No. 4.

 

The revelation that local deposits dropped to $5 billion came in the latest annual report from the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp., one of the regulators of the nation's 8,000 banks.

 

The exodus of deposits from PNC pushed KeyCorp to No. 1 in Greater Cleveland, with nearly 22 percent of local deposits, even though Key lost more than $1 billion in local deposits in the past year. Key hasn't ranked in the top slot since 2004.

 

PNC also slipped from the No. 1 position in Ohio, allowing Fifth Third Bank to become the largest bank operating in the state. PNC last year had nearly $35 billion in deposits statewide and 15 percent of the market share. It now has about $26 billion and 11 percent of the Ohio market.

 

PNC bought National City at the end of 2008, but the lost deposits could reflect changes that occurred only in the past year. That's when the bank changed to the PNC name locally and converted customers to new account numbers and new types of accounts......

 

 

 

 

 

 

As soon as we get married, we're both closing our individual PNC accounts and opening a joint account elsewhere.  I haven't had any banking problems with them, but we had a HUGE, and I mean HUGE problem with PNC mortgage that lasted about six months this year.  They can never redeem themselves from this.

I've also had problems my PNC mortgage(formerly an NCB mortgage). On top of that, the supervisor that I spoke to was super rude. When I said " that's what NCB did when they were around", she said "did it say National City when you called this number?". I hung up.

^ So frustrating when you feel like you have to chase someone down to which you're giving money...to get information..and they act like that on the phone. Unreal and completely unacceptable.

 

On a side note, I have wondered why the building lights have been out for so long. Maintenance, costs? Or is this some Pittsburgh conspiracy to dull the Cleveland skyline at night?  :-o

I know they have been trying to keep the building within some LEED certified energy use window, so this could have some affect on that.  I know we can't adjust the AC on our floor at all. 

^ What kinds of problems did you have with PNC Mortgage?  They are my mortgage company too...just curious...

^ What kinds of problems did you have with PNC Mortgage? They are my mortgage company too...just curious...

 

Okay, cue a novel.....

 

Our mortgage is about $X/month including insurance and land taxes (a very small amount of $$ since we have the tax abatement) that get paid out of escrow.  We get new escrow statements every March, adjusted for minor fluctuations in insurance or taxes.  Well, the statement we got this past March said our monthly payment had increased by nearly 65%.  After looking over the statement, we realized we had been charged 10x the normal tax amount, and since they escrow for an additional year into the future, the monthly payments were adjusted to 4x the 10x tax amount, split over 12 months.  After a quick consultation with our neighbor to verify that their taxes had not increased exponentially as well for no apparent reason, we of course contacted PNC.  Well, they have no knowledge about tax abatements, all they see is the numbers in their computer.  At this point, no one knows if PNC paid an erroneous amount to the county or if the county sent an erroneous bill.  So the rest of the timeline goes like this:

 

Late March:  Initial concerns voiced to PNC.  We verified with the county that the amount paid was 10x the amount that was supposed to be paid.  PNC sends us two letters saying they have requested the refund from the county.

 

April:  Haven't heard anything.  We have to have PNC flag our account for our May payment to accept a different payment amount since we can't afford to pay an extra 65% into our mortgage.

 

May:  No record of a refund request shows up in the county's system.  Call PNC again - get another two letters saying they've requested the refund.  Have PNC flag our account again for our June payment to accept a lower amount.

 

June:  No record of a refund request shows up in the county's system. We have to have PNC flag our account again for our July payment.  I contact the county and beg and plead with them to contact PNC themselves to get the ball rolling.

 

July:  Receive a letter from PNC saying we have been sent to collections because we paid less than we were supposed to.  Apparently some asshole didn't flag our account properly for that month.  Of course we're now even more livid with PNC for erroneously sending us to collections, so I rheam a guy out and he says they requested the refund on the date the county told me they had contacted PNC.  I explain to him that we've gotten four letters from them stating the refund had already been requested, and the only reason it's actually happening this time is because the county took action.  The refund is finally posted in late July.  We have our account flagged for one more month since we don't have a new escrow summary yet.

 

August:  I call PNC to ask when they're going to send us a new escrow summary with the adjusted amount since our account still requests the 65% higher payment despite the refund being issued.  Their response was "Oh, you want us to do that for you?"  SERIOUSLY, WTF?  Yes, I want to have to deal with you assholes every month until next May when we'd have a new round of payments starting. 

 

Fuck.  I hate PNC mortgage.

Let it out Doc. Let it out.

Let it out Doc. Let it out.

 

Oh, I've let it out several times to customer service representatives.

^ yikes...something I should keep an eye on then since I'm in the same boat with the tax abatement. 

^ yikes...something I should keep an eye on then since I'm in the same boat with the tax abatement.

 

Like I said, we have no idea whose fault it was.  We don't know if the county sent a bad statement to PNC or if PNC made an incorrect payment to the county.  Heck, we don't even know if that amount was what our taxes would actually be, or if it was a completely random amount!  But if your monthly payment fluctuates by more than like 5%, you need to take a closer look!

I always get a work sheet from Citi and Huntington when they are recalculating my escrow amount. They do a review annually to see if there is a projected shortfall/or over collection. I have a mortage on both my house and rental incase you are wondering.

I always get a work sheet from Citi and Huntington when they are recalculating my escrow amount. They do a review annually to see if there is a projected shortfall/or over collection. I have a mortage on both my house and rental incase you are wondering.

 

Like you get an additional document before they send you the finalized escrow statement?

Yeah, usually a month or so before it goes into effect.

They show the yearly projections with the  monthly outlays and projected balance in the escrow account.

 

Yeah, usually a month or so before it goes into effect.

They show the yearly projections with the monthly outlays and projected balance in the escrow account.

 

 

So, we get the escrow summary at the end of March, and the first new payment is the May 1st payment.  So if I was in your position, you're saying I'd get an additional document before the end of March?

No that is what I get in roughly the same time period. I just reread your post. That is just piss poor customer service on PNC part.

 

BTW which amount shows up under Taxes due on the auditor site for your property? The whole amount or the abated amount?

^ Speaking for myself, it shows up as the abated amount.  It shows the building value as $0 and then the land value as what it is, which I pay taxes on.

Doc it's unclear to me from your post, did you ever  determine if it was the county that screwed up your bill or somebody at PNC fat fingered your bill when enetering it in the system? Either way that sucks big time.

I had this happen to a client at my previous employer. It was the county that erroneously billed for a significantly higher amount. Client contacted the county and had them correct the bill, and then contacted me. I'm not in mortgages, but I banked the client commercially. We had everything resolved in 2 weeks, before the next bill was due. We had to refund the previous month's payment because client was on autodraw. Took a lot of prodding on my part to get everyone to play nice, but it's possible if you have someone advocating for you.

 

Doc, apparently, you did not. Sorry for your experience.

 

PNC lost a lot of commercial deposits primarily because they elected to move upstream in the market. If you fell into the lower end category and weren't squeaky clean, they had nothing for you. Fit in our product or get out. A lot of customers have chosen the latter option, much to the benefit of their competitors.

 

The problem PNC is going to face is that eventually, they will want to target that $10Million to $75Million in revenue customer base. These companies are largely owner managed, and these people have looooong memories. P!ss them off, and they don't forget. I think they're doing themselves a tremendous disservice in this market.

AJ perhaps you can answer this question, how much does a bank's deposits reflect it's net worth or value? I know that if I was on the due diligence team, I would probably account for withdraws after the merger, even in addition to  the CD maturity issue they mention in the article. But 75% reduction in Ohio and a $10 billion reduction out of $35 B ish total deposits, seems steep to me. I would hate to be the one who has to explain that discrepancy to management.

well, deposits are counter-intuitively treated as liabilities on a Bank's balance sheet (it's someone else's asset that the Bank is borrowing, to then lend in the marketplace), so if the deposits decline, the Bank needs to replace that funding with other funds...typically borrowing in the market. So they're replacing one liability with another.

 

The risk to banks is that deposits are cheaper than borrowing, usually. Non interest bearing deposits have little cost of funds can contribute the full spread to the margin of any lonas they are applied against. The idea behind promo rates is that you lure in the 'hot money' and then hope that once the promo rate shifts back, you've won the customer's loyalty and their money stays. The bank makes less money on the promotional CD's & Money markets because they're likely offering rates equal to or in excess (if they're desperate) to what they could borrow the funds for.

 

If you see a bank that is consistently offering promotional rates well in excess of what the market is offering, beware. In the short term it may just be a method of gaining market share. In the long term, it could hint at a weak balance sheet, which translates into higher borrowing costs for the Bank.

 

I don't buy for a second PNC's argument that this was all hot money that left. Some of it was, for sure. But my guess would be that the vast majority of it was the result of their practices being less customer friendly than NCB, and many people just leaving. Anectdotally, I haven't met with a company yet that went through the NCB / PNC shift that has been happy with the outcome.

Thanks AJ.

 

"Um, sir. The best explanation I can offer is that people in Cleveland reaaly really don't like Pittsburgh."

 

I also think the way that the FED hung Nat City out to dry left a bad taste in people's mouth when PNC used TARP money to do the deal. Ironically enough it looks like a good chunk of the money ended back in Oh or Cleveland banks.

 

The pittsburgh aspect shouldn't be overlooked either. I actually had a friend go off on the Heinz Red Zone when we were on his porch listening to one of the Browns pre-season games this summer. We are sitting on his porch drinking a beer and watching the kids play in the yard, then all of a sudden he says,

" I hate that"

"Hate what?"

"The heinz red zone"

"huh?"

"Heinz is a pittsburg company. the Steelers play at Heinz field. Heinz should have nothing to do with the Browns."

"Um-Ok, would the Bertman Yellow Zone be Ok?"

"Sure..."

Doc it's unclear to me from your post, did you ever determine if it was the county that screwed up your bill or somebody at PNC fat fingered your bill when enetering it in the system? Either way that sucks big time.

 

Never figured it out.  You really think someone's gonna take the blame?  Heck no.  I forgot to mention that the first few times I called the county (until I begged and pleaded with them in July), they told me that PNC HAD to request the refund, and that they wouldn't just give it to them or even contact them, that I had to do it, which is why we went through the crap that we did.  So yeah, I hate the county and PNC, but I hate PNC so so much more!

AJ perhaps you can answer this question, how much does a bank's deposits reflect it's net worth or value? I know that if I was on the due diligence team, I would probably account for withdraws after the merger, even in addition to the CD maturity issue they mention in the article. But 75% reduction in Ohio and a $10 billion reduction out of $35 B ish total deposits, seems steep to me. I would hate to be the one who has to explain that discrepancy to management.

 

Also keep in mind regarding the amount of this reduction, PNC had to divest some branches in the area, not a lot like they did in Pitt, but some.  And all the assets associated with that branch went to the new company, being any account of any kind that was opened at that branch, whether someone uses that branch as their primary one or not.

Never figured it out. You really think someone's gonna take the blame? Heck no. I forgot to mention that the first few times I called the county (until I begged and pleaded with them in July), they told me that PNC HAD to request the refund, and that they wouldn't just give it to them or even contact them, that I had to do it, which is why we went through the crap that we did. So yeah, I hate the county and PNC, but I hate PNC so so much more!

 

Checking the county auditor's website (like CBC suggested upthread) may give you a hit at whose fault it was, though.  What does your billed tax amount say there?

Never figured it out. You really think someone's gonna take the blame? Heck no. I forgot to mention that the first few times I called the county (until I begged and pleaded with them in July), they told me that PNC HAD to request the refund, and that they wouldn't just give it to them or even contact them, that I had to do it, which is why we went through the crap that we did. So yeah, I hate the county and PNC, but I hate PNC so so much more!

 

Checking the county auditor's website (like CBC suggested upthread) may give you a hit at whose fault it was, though. What does your billed tax amount say there?

 

For 2009 (pd in 2010), it says the correct amount.  It says the land has value, but the dwelling does not, which is correct.  I had checked this out before in making sure our tax abatement was processed correctly.  It was just one freak bill back in January - all the other bills have been fine.  So yes, it was a single person reading off the wrong line, either at PNC or the county.