April 4, 200817 yr 5/3 is not a particularly healthy bank. Don't see how this would be a good idea for them to take on NCB. Wells Fargo and US Bank are the 2 banks that could do it with the least amount of affect on their balance sheets. US Bank doesn't seem interested in large bank acquisitions but Wells does.
April 4, 200817 yr Anybody have any insights as to what would be better for OHIO and the existing workforce and number of jobs in the state? Would it be better for Key or 5/3 to have it? It would be best if they decided to stay autonomous and raise capital through private investors. I don't think there is an advantage to Ohio with either merger. Both will involve massive layoffs.
April 4, 200817 yr If I had to choose between either 5/3 or Key taking over NatCity...I would think that it would be less detrimental to Ohio if 5/3 took it over. Key and NatCity have massive overlays in NE Ohio, and while 5/3 and NatCity have overlays as well...I don't think it is quite as much. Neither is a good scenario though.
April 4, 200817 yr http://www.library.toledo.oh.us/tprofile/chapter_eight.htm - THE GREAT DEPRESSION Toledo's banks appeared to have survived 1930, though throughout the country hundreds of banks closed. The 1930 federal census revealed that in April a total of 16,173 Toledoans had no work at all. Many of these people had purchased homes during the prosperous 1920s, when credit was easy and new neighborhoods replaced farmland all around the city.(sound familiar?) Banks in Toledo held the mortgages on many of the new homes. The banks repossessed the houses when the unemployed owners could no longer make the payments, but with no new buyers, the banks found themselves with huge real estate holdings and no money. In 1931 Toledo's banks held the mortgages on seventy-two subdivisions. On June 17, 1931, the Security-Home Trust Company failed to open. When fearful depositors tried to withdraw their money from other Toledo banks, the bankers imposed a waiting period of sixty days for savings account withdrawals. On August 17, 1931, the date the sixty days expired, four other banks, the Ohio Savings Bank and Trust Company, the Commercial Bank, the Commerce Guardian Trust and Savings Bank, and the American Bank, remained closed. Until 1932 the city of Toledo bore the responsibility for providing assistance for those in need, with funding from the city budget and the Community Chest. The Social Service Federation administered direct relief, which in 1931 totaled more than $1 million. In 1932, with $1,400,000 tied up in accounts in the insolvent banks, the city lacked money for its own operation. Relief for the unemployed, who by November 1931 represented nearly 50 percent of the workforce, posed a problem. ----------------------------------- Found a better article from the Blade from last month: http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080311/COLUMNIST02/803110326/-1/BUSINESS
April 4, 200817 yr Thanks, Tim Messer-Kruse wrote a great book on it as well. The other part of the story is that the powers that be in Toledo basically robbed the banks while they were closed and walked away with a lot of money even as most of the city lost their hat. Toledo didn't really recover until the early 50s.
April 5, 200817 yr Bring Wells Fargo damnit! "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
April 5, 200817 yr The advantage to Key taking over National City is that it would leave Cleveland with one stronger bank that would be less likely to be absorbed later on. Without that, we still are at risk of losing Key as well, and being left with no major local bank.
April 10, 200817 yr This is only a rumor, but I heard from a close relative that works in the main office that National City is planning to announce tomorrow that it has been sold to another bank. I also heard that workers are a little shaken up by all of the uncertainty.
April 10, 200817 yr For Cleveland's sake lets hope that it is another bank that doesn't have a large presence in the area.
April 10, 200817 yr National City CEO speaks out about bank's options Posted by Teresa Dixon Murray April 10, 2008 12:09PM Categories: Banks, Impact Peter Raskind In an exclusive interview today with The Plain Dealer, National City Chairman and Chief Executive Peter Raskind suggested that, contrary to what many may believe, Ohio's largest bank may in fact not be sold. When the 163-year-old bank announced last week that it's exploring "a range of strategic alternatives," it meant just that, Raskind said. The No. 1 responsibility for the bank's board of directors is to its shareholders, Raskind said, but he stressed that he cares deeply about not just Cleveland, but all of the communities where it operates. An aspect of the board's obligations under law can look at "the impact to the community," Raskind said. http://blog.cleveland.com/business/2008/04/national_city_ceo_speaks_out_o.html
April 10, 200817 yr I think 5/3 has to rank up there with worst customer service of any business. AGREE 110% THE WORST!!
April 11, 200817 yr I think 5/3 has to rank up there with worst customer service of any business. AGREE 110% THE WORST!! my car loan is through 5/3, they actually charge extra for making an online payment. wtf
April 11, 200817 yr My bank card expired, I got the new one, when I tried to activate it, the rep didn't do it, so when I went to take cash out of the ATM it ate the card for security, then they had the nerve to tell me it was my fault and I didn't activate it properly.
April 12, 200817 yr From the PD -- as many have already said, the best case scenario is this sort of deal... http://blog.cleveland.com/business/2008/04/scotiabank_interest_in_nationa.html Scotiabank interest in National City could mean bailout on the way Posted by Peter Krouse and Teresa Dixon Murray April 11, 2008 18:57PM Categories: National City Scotiabank's reported interest in National City Corp. could signal a pritave-equity bailout is in the works. Last week, The Plain Dealer reported that Scotiabank might be talking with National City. Friday, the Wall Street Journal said Scotiabank's parent, the Bank of Nova Scotia, has made a bid "to buy at least a stake" in Cleveland's largest bank.
April 12, 200817 yr If I had to choose between either 5/3 or Key taking over NatCity...I would think that it would be less detrimental to Ohio if 5/3 took it over. Key and NatCity have massive overlays in NE Ohio, and while 5/3 and NatCity have overlays as well...I don't think it is quite as much. Neither is a good scenario though. not really. in that scenario its still all in-state business. despite parochialism like that on the forum whats really much more detrimental to ohio is the out of state banks moving in, whether they buyout ohio banks or not. for example, i was shocked to see so many chase banks all over the state when i was driving around last summer. i have no sympathy here -- nat city & others deserve whatever they get for the debacle they helped create with the sleazy mortgage practices. yeah thx for the recession bank dudes. great.
April 12, 200817 yr :roll: So, like if the Bank of Nova Scotia buys out those hosers at National City Bank (ay), does that mean they become National Hockey Puck Bank? (Apologies to Bob & Doug MacKenzie) :-D
April 13, 200817 yr I think you've been drinking too much Labatt's ya hoser! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZyCVpM43MU&feature=related "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
April 14, 200817 yr Anyone one else see this? From Crains: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- National City's E. 6th Street tower in new hands By STAN BULLARD 4:30 am, April 14, 2008 Call it bad timing, but the new owner of the National City East Sixth Street Building, 623 Euclid Ave., plans to make the best of it. San Diego-based Westcore Properties paid $8 million on March 25 for the 11-story, 161,000-square-foot office building leased by anguished National City Corp. Dan Ankeny, Westcore president, said in an interview the company knew National City faced subprime issues before it bought the building, but figures whatever happens the bank still has a “long-term” lease on the space. The building was part of a $100-million real estate portfolio Westcore bought from American Financial Realty Trust, which was acquired April 1 by Gramercy Capital Corp. of New York. Plans for the building are not set, but Mr. Ankeny does not rule out a sale. Mr. Ankeny said the 1896-vintage building is “a beautiful asset” and if it were not in Cleveland would be worth 10 times what Westcore paid for it. However, Westcore did pay $400,000 less than American Financial paid for the building in 2005. The structure adjoins the big bank's landmark National City Center headquarters. http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20080414/FREE/480934844/1004&Profile=1004
April 14, 200817 yr "if it were not in Cleveland would be worth 10 times what Westcore paid for it" excuse me? how can such a blanket statement like this be made? I find it hard to believe that placing it ANYWHERE besides Cleveland greatly enhances its worth.
April 14, 200817 yr "if it were not in Cleveland would be worth 10 times what Westcore paid for it" excuse me? how can such a blanket statement like this be made? I find it hard to believe that placing it ANYWHERE besides Cleveland greatly enhances its worth. I can see it going for 10x more in Stryker.
April 17, 200817 yr The Journal also reported that Corsair Capital LLC of New York is considering a bid. I would keep your eyes out for more on this story line in the next few days.
April 18, 200817 yr The Journal also reported that Corsair Capital LLC of New York is considering a bid. I would keep your eyes out for more on this story line in the next few days. I heard from a big broker for National City to expect something to be announced on the 22nd?
April 18, 200817 yr An announcement. Yes theyve been saying this for a couple of weeks. Thats when their earnings statement comes out and they expect to announce "their plan" probably before that. Wont be anything with Key or 5/3 though.
April 18, 200817 yr i've heard from three different and well-connected people in the past week that April 22 is the day for the announcement.
April 18, 200817 yr i've heard from three different and well-connected people in the past week that April 22 is the day for the announcement. Are you being sarcastic? Then this must be the day!
April 18, 200817 yr What exactly did you hear other than "expect" something? That's just it ... He didn't want to go into detail about anything. You could tell by his tone that he was tired of the news about it and was probably asked about it from every family member and co-worker. He just said something like: "Just wait until the 22nd ... that's when you'll hear the ....." something, I can't remember word for word. lol.
April 18, 200817 yr Cincinnatus got the scoop for some insider trading! Ha! If I was an insider trader, it'd be in the 5/3 baby! That was just a joke MayDay and MTS ... before you go off the deep end! ;)
April 18, 200817 yr Cincinnatus got the scoop for some insider trading! Ha! If I was an insider trader, it'd be in the 5/3 baby! That was just a joke MayDay and MTS ... before you go off the deep end! ;) It's not funny, I don't "get" it or both!
April 18, 200817 yr What exactly did you hear other than "expect" something? A deal will be done Monday assuming everything moves forward as currently desired (which doesn't mean it won't fall through, but this is the direction it is going). Aprill 22 is the board of directors meeting; something has to be decided by then.
April 18, 200817 yr What exactly did you hear other than "expect" something? A deal will be done Monday assuming everything moves forward as currently desired (which doesn't mean it won't fall through, but this is the direction it is going). Aprill 22 is the board of directors meeting; something has to be decided by then. Ah ... I think he did say something about that meeting now that I think about it!
April 21, 200817 yr Time to party, Cleveland!! "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
April 21, 200817 yr Most banks are still making profits, despite losses. During recession and gloom the strong eat up the weak. It's important to recognize that a US recession is a global recession and effects international markets more than us. Countries with large amounts of reserves absolutely will inject cash into banks to keep reserves in check. If China and Japan have trillions of US dollars in reserves, banking collapses and the dollar tanks, they're not going to sit idle as their wealth goes down the toilet. Japan, Europe, Saudi Arabia, etc. race to prop up international banks. Bear Stearns is one of only a few banks operating on a net loss. Bear Sterns would easily be swallowed by hedge funds or government-led investment funds. Banks will have poor liquidity in investment and lending issues for a few years but hedge funds and government do NOT. Our tanking markets lead to triggered overpriced oil as people rush to natural resources and commodities. Then rich Arabs rush to buy out or invest in the worlds biggest, most powerful banks with their excess cash. Yep yep. :wink:
April 21, 200817 yr This is just a short term reprive. The bank will be sold off to the another bank once the whole subprime mess settles down and the potential acquirers know what they are purchasing. The stock price is going to be a bargain for the considerable future since the new injection of capital has diluted the value of the existing shares. In addition, the investment bank that injected capital will look to sell out when conditions improve. I bet the bank will be sold by this time next year.
April 21, 200817 yr Brutus sure does know how to rain on our parade! Go Capitalism, go rich arabs and Go Cleveland!!
April 22, 200817 yr Hey, it was the best they could get at this time. This was all about management trying to hold on and make something while they could as opposed to selling for nothing. The bank caught a reprive at this time. The investment bank that purchased the shares below market price is primed to sell out in a year or two and make a premium at 15-17 per share. Otherwise, they could not recoup their investment in a reasonable period if they held on for a long term fix.
April 22, 200817 yr I guess I will be staying with Cleveland's finest Financial Intstitution!! Thank God!
April 22, 200817 yr This is just a short term reprive. The bank will be sold off to the another bank once the whole subprime mess settles down and the potential acquirers know what they are purchasing. The stock price is going to be a bargain for the considerable future since the new injection of capital has diluted the value of the existing shares. In addition, the investment bank that injected capital will look to sell out when conditions improve. I bet the bank will be sold by this time next year. Obviously, Corsair will sell their shares at some point in the next few years...this is why they do these types of things...buy low, sell high. Of course, it's National City's job to turn things around in the meantime. But Corsair is locked into those shares for 18 months and they aren't going to sell the shares if the stock is climbing, nor will htey sell if it has yet to see much movement in 18-24 months. But once the "subprime mess" settles down, that's good for NCC. You have to remember, this is the only cause of all of this. The rest of the bank is doing well. If they didn't have this looming risk of subprime losses, then none of this would have happened. Furthermore, while losses are obviously bad, they are now out of that market so there is a cap on the losses, meaing that at some point it will end. What will be left is the healthy parts of the bank. The capital infusion ensures they can sustain the losses that are projected. Plus, Corsair now has a controlling voice on the board. They aren't going to let NCC make the same mistakes as they have in the past. They'll be looking to protect their investment (as will the other investors who have "a seat at the table") and make sure NCC executives to get things right...and trust me, some of these guys at NCC are going to get the swift kick in the a$$ that they need.
April 22, 200817 yr This is just a short term reprive. The bank will be sold off to the another bank once the whole subprime mess settles down and the potential acquirers know what they are purchasing. The stock price is going to be a bargain for the considerable future since the new injection of capital has diluted the value of the existing shares. In addition, the investment bank that injected capital will look to sell out when conditions improve. I bet the bank will be sold by this time next year. "Thornburgh said Corsair intends to stay invested in National City for four to five years. When it cashes out, it plans to do so by selling its shares on the open market, not through a sale of the bank." http://blog.cleveland.com/pdextra/2008/04/corsair_says_it_doesnt_plan_to.html
April 24, 200817 yr This is just a short term reprive. The bank will be sold off to the another bank once the whole subprime mess settles down and the potential acquirers know what they are purchasing. The stock price is going to be a bargain for the considerable future since the new injection of capital has diluted the value of the existing shares. In addition, the investment bank that injected capital will look to sell out when conditions improve. I bet the bank will be sold by this time next year. this seems to put to rest most of your allegations, doesn't it?? nvestors prohibited from taking control of National City Posted by Teresa Dixon Murray April 23, 2008 17:53PM Categories: Banks, Breaking News, National City Even though the investors who are pumping $7 billion into National City Corp. will own about 70 percent of the company, they will be prohibited from trying to take control of the Cleveland bank. That disclosure is among the details in the bank's 117-page agreement with Corsair Capital LLC and more than a dozen unnamed investors, who agreed Sunday to bail out National City by buying 1.4 billion new shares at $5 a share. The agreement was filed Wednesday with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission. The investors also cannot propose or try to negotiate any acquisition or merger involving National City or any of its subsidiaries. Other details in the agreement: &bul; The investors may not, alone or with others, try to "influence or control the management, board of directors or policies" of National City or its subsidiaries. &bul; The investors must hold their new National City stock for at least 18 months. After that, they can sell about 5.6 percent of their shares per month, if certain conditions are met. &bul; The agreement also gives Corsair the right to buy 39.3 million more shares at either $8.50 a share, or 115 percent of this week's average stock price, whichever is lower. Shares closed Wednesday at $5.96 a share, a decline of 5 percent. National City's shares sold for $8.33 on Friday, before the deal was announced. &bul; If National City sells more than $300 million worth of shares of common stock at less than $5 a share, or gives up control of the company in a deal worth less than $5 a share, then National City will have to reimburse Corsair and the other investors. &bul; Investors are prohibited from calling shareholder meetings or making proxy proposals. &bul; National City can't pay a dividend of more than 1 cent per share for its common stock until after the deal closes. &bul; No investors can own 10 percent or more of the shares. That would require the investor to register with regulators as a bank holding company. &bul; The investors may not, for at least one year, enter into any hedging transactions that involve the value of National City stock. &bul; The investors can't contest the restrictions or try to amend them or try to be released from them. &bul; The investors can't do any short sales or grant any options for the purchase of National City stock. &bul; National City or the investors may cancel the agreement if it doesn't close by Dec. 31, unless the party requesting cancellation is the reason the deal can't close. The filing doesn't disclose the other investors beyond Corsair, although one investor has surfaced: TPG-Axon Capital Management LP, a private equity/hedge fund spun off from buyout firm Texas Pacific Group in 2005 and run by former Goldman Sachs partner Dinakar Singh. Investors signed the agreements Sunday and Monday. The deal is scheduled to close May 5.
Create an account or sign in to comment