I want to go everywhere in this country without paying fees!

Also, in the "consumer panic" alert, some small businesses have pulled deposits. Path dependency = if you fear it to happen, you will take action to make it happen...and this is what they are seeing happening.

 

Wouldn't the following article from the Plain Dealer indicate that this in fact isn't what is hurting them (at least through June 30)?

 

http://www.cleveland.com/plaindealer/stories/index.ssf?/base/business-8/1223541109300460.xml&coll=2

 

Cleveland-based National City finished the year ending June 30 with nearly 32 percent market share in the Cleveland-Elyria-Mentor region, up from 28 percent a year earlier, according to the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. Deposits jumped to $20.1 billion, from $16.7 billion.

 

Also surprising is that Key's deposits are up (albeit not as much).

 

That's the thing - there was no financial crisis as of June 30th.  This has all happened in the past 30 days, particularly Monday and Tuesday of last week.

I want to go everywhere in this country without paying fees!

 

Key reimburses any fees that you incur with other banks' atms.

I'm with the wrong bank then...

Although Im guessing for the people in that building, more sh!ts than giggles! :wink:

 

 

This made me giggle.

I want to go everywhere in this country without paying fees!

 

Key reimburses any fees that you incur with other banks' atms.

 

And what are the stipulations required to get that benefit?

 

National City has checking product that will not charge you a fee for using a foreign ATM, but to get reimbursed for fees other banks charge, you have to have either $5,000 in monthly deposits or an average daily balance of something rather large...I forget exactly...

Great story...most of the merger/buyout deals are worked out over the weekend and announced Sunday night or early Mondays so I was holding my breath after all the news articles about NatCity selling out on Friday. But this story today sounds like things are stabilizing. Also in good news (which probably led to today's good news) was that all day Friday the major story on NYTimes was about Bush switching focus from the $700b bailout to directly buying risky mortgages from banks. Altogether, today is the first time NatCity is getting some good news for standing alone.

 

National City, Bank of America Lead Regional Bank Stocks Higher

By Linda Shen

Oct. 13 (Bloomberg) -- National City Corp., Bank of America Corp. and Sovereign Bancorp Inc. led lenders higher after governments in Europe, the U.S. and Asia agreed to support banks.

 

National City, the largest Ohio lender, rose 18 percent in early New York trading.

 

 

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=avGGQSWp5Q7U&refer=us

National City moves up to 7th largest U.S. bank

Posted by Teresa Dixon Murray/Plain Dealer Reporter October 13, 2008 17:30PM

Categories: Banks, Breaking News, National City, Real Time News

 

National City has catapulted to No. 7 among the largest banks in the nation, up from No. 11 a year ago, a new report says.

 

Ohio is home to four of the nation's top 25 banks, as measured by deposits. KeyCorp of Cleveland gained one notch to move to No. 16; Fifth Third Bancorp of Cincinnati stayed the same at No. 15; and Huntington Bancshares of Columbus jumped from No. 30 to No. 24. Eight of the top 25 are foreign-owned.

 

More at cleveland.com

http://blog.cleveland.com/business/2008/10/national_city_moves_up_to_7th.html

 

Ouch!

 

National City to cut 4,000 jobs, posts another big loss

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/business/2008/10/national_city_posts_another_bi.html

 

Posted by tmurray October 21, 2008 06:16AM

 

The bank said today that it will cut up to 4,000 jobs nationwide as it reports a loss of $729 million in the third quarter of 2008.

 

CLEVELAND -- National City Corp. today said it's planning to cut 4,000 jobs nationwide in the next three years as it copes with another big quarterly loss.

 

The Cleveland bank said it lost $729 million in the third quarter -- results that were much worse than projected -- largely because it continues to build its war chest to prepare for future potential loan losses.

I doubt they will last four more years alone. They are not one of the banks scheduled to get fed money to buy up weaker banks - Fifth/Third and Key were.

No shock here. They were discussing this at the branch I was at last week -- and were preparing to dismiss some of their staff from the branch. At least the bank is taking preventative action to prevent the institution from collapsing.

No shock here. They were discussing this at the branch I was at last week -- and were preparing to dismiss some of their staff from the branch. At least the bank is taking preventative action to prevent the institution from collapsing.

 

I think NCC will be around for a while, they just need to sell of their mortgage business or reduce it. 

 

They've been agressively trying to expand in the region.

 

They are not a WaMu or Wachovia.

I doubt they will last four more years alone. They are not one of the banks scheduled to get fed money to buy up weaker banks - Fifth/Third and Key were.

 

Do you have the list of banks that were included?  I'd be curious to know the rationale behind how they chose which to bail out.

I doubt they will last four more years alone. They are not one of the banks scheduled to get fed money to buy up weaker banks - Fifth/Third and Key were.

 

Unless something changed recently, I don't think that is accurate.  There were 9 banks that got the initial fed money - the 4 biggest consumer banks (Chase, Citi, BoA, Wells)  plus Goldman, Merrill, Morgan Stanley, and 2 wall street banks (Bank of New York Mellon and State Street Corp). 

 

All other banks, including NCC, Key and 5/3 now have the ability to apply for the rest of the fed money.  At this point, NCC and Key have both said they are looking into it.

Remember the feds will take part ownership if they do get the bailout. I'm sure some of them banks will not go that route.

Today's NYT and WSJ both provided incomplete lists. They also included BB&T and SunTrust.

Today's NYT and WSJ both provided incomplete lists. They also included BB&T and SunTrust.

 

I assume you are referring to this article:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/21/business/21plan.html?_r=2&hp&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

 

I think that list of banks (Key, 5/3, BB&T and Suntrust) are just analysts picks as banks that would be most likely to use the money to acquire other banks.  I don't think those banks have actually agreed to take the fed money yet.

Exactly, they were used as examples of stronger/larger regional banks that may be considered acquirers.

 

I'm not sure if these statements would allow for National City to qualify for any help:

 

Two senior officials said the selection criteria would include banks that need more capital to finance acquisitions.

“Treasury doesn’t want to prop up weak banks,” said an official who spoke on condition of anonymity, because of the sensitivity of the matter. “One purpose of this plan is to drive consolidation.”

 

 

Just for sh!ts and giggles:

 

 

Expect to see this mock photo become reality in the next month or so.  Nothing has been officially announced, but I heard PNC bought National City last night.

How would you know that?

PNC to Acquire National City

Merger will create fifth largest U.S. banking deposit franchise PNC to further strengthen capital position

PR Newswire, October 24, 2008

 

PITTSBURGH, Oct. 24 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- The PNC Financial Services Group, Inc. (NYSE: PNC) and National City Corporation (NYSE: NCC) today announced that they have signed a definitive agreement for PNC to acquire National City for $2.23 per share, or an aggregate fixed amount of approximately $5.2 billion in PNC stock. Additionally $384 million of cash is payable to certain warrant holders. Total consideration approximates National City's market capitalization as of the close of business on October 23, 2008. National City shareholders will be entitled to 0.0392 share of PNC common stock for each share of National City.

 

(Photo: http://www.newscom.com/cgi-bin/prnh/20081024/NEF023 )

 

(Logo: http://www.newscom.com/cgi-bin/prnh/20000307/PHTU015 )

 

PNC plans to issue to the U.S. Treasury $7.7 billion of preferred stock and related warrants under the TARP Capital Purchase Program subject to standard closing requirements. The U.S. Treasury Department approval of PNC's participation enables PNC to further strengthen its capital position, resulting in an estimated pro forma Tier 1 capital ratio for the combined company of approximately 10 percent.

 

"The acquisition of National City will increase our core deposit base to $180 billion, making PNC the fifth largest U.S. bank by deposits. At a time when core funding is key, we see our deposit strength as an important success factor. Upon closing the transaction, we will implement our successful business model and execute our strategies for managing risk, achieving cost efficiencies and growing high-quality revenue streams," said James E. Rohr, chairman and chief executive officer of PNC. "We believe this strategic combination will continue PNC's efforts to build capital strength and shareholder value. We are also gratified that we have been selected to participate in Treasury's Capital Purchase Program, which has helped to put this transaction on a very solid footing."

 

 

PNC expects to incur merger and integration costs of approximately $2.3 billion. The transaction is expected to result in the reduction of approximately $1.2 billion of noninterest expense through the elimination of operational and administrative redundancies.

 

 

CAUTIONARY STATEMENT REGARDING FORWARD-LOOKING INFORMATION

 

This press release contains forward-looking statements regarding our outlook or expectations with respect to the planned acquisition of National City Corporation (National City), the expected costs to be incurred in connection with the acquisition, National City's future performance and consequences of its integration into PNC, and the impact of the transaction on PNC's future performance.

 

 

How would you know that?

 

Well, there's the official announcement, but I know people who were involved.

OK... so now the real question:  What does this mean for the National City employees in Cleveland?  Doesn't sound at all good to me... but I'm no banking expert.

OK... so now the real question: What does this mean for the National City employees in Cleveland? Doesn't sound at all good to me... but I'm no banking expert.

 

In addition to that, how many employees does National City currently have in offices downtown?

OK... so now the real question: What does this mean for the National City employees in Cleveland? Doesn't sound at all good to me... but I'm no banking expert.

 

Probably not much in the short term, but I would expect a number of synergies after 6 months, especially in support functions like call centers and IT.

The PD makes it sounds as though many local jobs will be lost. :(

 

Climaxing a collapse that began 14 months ago, it was announced today that National City Corp. is being sold.

 

The Cleveland bank, the largest in Ohio, is being purchased by PNC Financial Services of Pittsburgh for $2.23 per share.

 

The news is among the worst the local giant, with 8,000 employees in Northeast Ohio, could receive. PNC, just 130 miles and less than 2-1/2 hours from National City's headquarters, will almost certainly slash thousands of local employees.

 

More at http://blog.cleveland.com/business/2008/10/national_city_sold.html

this is quite possibily the worst outcome for cleveland - it for sure will slash thousands of local jobs...NCB hires over 8,000 people in cuyahoga county alone

Does that 8,000 include branch employees though?  How many people are administratively employed by Nat City?

Which bank becomes the largest in Ohio now?

How would you know that?

 

Well, there's the official announcement, but I know people who were involved.

 

I apologize for questioning...I can't believe it really happened.

ouch

Which bank becomes the largest in Ohio now?

 

I'm pretty sure it's Fifth-Third.

My insiders at Key Bank tell me it's terrible news for the Cleveland offices...

 

And to Pittsburgh no less... seriously?  This one hurts on so many levels.

I would think everyone at the brances would be safe. PNC has no Cleveland footprint.  But the HQ downtown could lose a lot.

I would think everyone at the brances would be safe. PNC has no Cleveland footprint. But the HQ downtown could lose a lot.

 

I'm a litte curious as to what to full impact will be.  The footprint is only slightly overlapping, so I think many branch employees will reamin intact.  NCC in terms of customer base and deposit balances is larger than PNC, so they will need to retain some corporate head count simply to manage the increased volume.

 

Some people I know who have been involved in bank take overs in the past say they do it pretty quickly, but I have ahrd time, considering the volume involved, imagining anything will happen in the short term.  The intergration of systems and data could take up to a year.

This is a huge loss for Cleveland as a community.

 

Nat City, beside employee thousands of people, was very active in the community. Not to restate the obvious...

 

Not good news at all.

most retail will be ok i'm sure...however the majority of downtown employees (4,000+) is likely to leave...being the HQ, you have the HR functions, accounting, CFO group, marketing, etc. that would most likely be consolidated with PNC in pittsburgh...not to mention the operation centers on w. 150th, brecksville, strongsville, highland heights, etc. 

 

The impact of this most likely will be felt for years unless Cleveland is able to attract similar high paying, educated, jobs.  I'm scare to see how this effects the viability of everything happening on Euclid - much less lunch traffic, etc. when all this settles in 6-9 months.

^That's the problem - I know that over the years there's been a lot of cross-pollination between Key and National City. This time around, Key's not in any position to go on any major hiring spree. :-|

I'm more concerned about losing the corporate citizen than the jobs.  I believe Nat City only has about 2,500 downtown employees, even if half of them go away, it's not a titanic loss in the face of 110,000 or so in downtown employment.  But with the amount Nat City donates to many Cleveland organizations and entities it's going to be a devastating blow.

I'm gonna be paying my mortgage to a Pittsburgh-based bank .  I knew we should've gone with Key! 

 

But on a happier note, let's start posting more in the Healthline Grand Opening Thread!  It's Friday, it's not a day to be sad, AND THE HEALTHLINE IS OPENING TODAY!!!!!!!!!!!! :-D

We all knew this would probably happen. However, I was hoping for a international bank to purchase National City to lessen the blow. This seems to be par for the course over the last several months. It's amazing how fast things have deteriorated in the last six months, and now we are starting to see this trouble spread into the real economy. Job losses and layoffs are occurring at the fastest rate since 9/11. If GM and Chrysler merge, Michigan may see 60,000 lost jobs, and Ohio would also suffer. I don't think the average American truly appreciates how bad things have gotten since last year. 

Wow...From a corporate stand point the community will suffer.  Now if NCC will stay as a regional HQ, the loss will may not be as bad.

 

I think the organizations that NCC supports will feel the pain more so.

Which bank becomes the largest in Ohio now?

 

I'm pretty sure it's Fifth-Third.

 

I would actually think that PNC would now be Ohio's largest.  NatCity was the largest and PNC already has a significant presence in some parts of the state.

 

I would expect PNC to pick up much of what NatCity used to do for the community in terms of investing in arts and other things.  That is pretty typical for banks.

Wow...From a corporate stand point the community will suffer. Now if NCC will stay as a regional HQ, the loss will may not be as bad.

 

I think the organizations that NCC supports will feel the pain more so.

 

I don't think we'll be so lucky, PNC headquarters is WAY too close.  It's going to be a pretty deep cut.  But like I said, it could be worse they only employee about 2,500 downtown.  I agree though, it really is the organizations that DEPEND on Nat City for support that are going to bear the brunt of this.

I would actually think that PNC would now be Ohio's largest.  NatCity was the largest and PNC already has a significant presence in some parts of the state.

 

I would expect PNC to pick up much of what NatCity used to do for the community in terms of investing in arts and other things.  That is pretty typical for banks.

 

I took his question to mean "what is the largest Ohio-based bank", not the largest bank period.

I would actually think that PNC would now be Ohio's largest.  NatCity was the largest and PNC already has a significant presence in some parts of the state.

 

I would expect PNC to pick up much of what NatCity used to do for the community in terms of investing in arts and other things.  That is pretty typical for banks.

That is not true.  This will happen, only if they WANT TO, PNC will have no "vested" community ties to Cleveland, once the deal is final.  None.  PNC is a corporate citizen of Pittsburgh not Cleveland.

I would think everyone at the brances would be safe. PNC has no Cleveland footprint.  But the HQ downtown could lose a lot.

 

I'm a litte curious as to what to full impact will be.  The footprint is only slightly overlapping, so I think many branch employees will reamin intact.  NCC in terms of customer base and deposit balances is larger than PNC, so they will need to retain some corporate head count simply to manage the increased volume.

 

I definitely agree that this move will mostly affect HQ functions, with minimal impact on branches.  I'm also hopeful that we will be able to maintain many of our back office functions (I've got friends at W150), since the new PNC will more than double in size in terms of deposits/customers.  Hopefully they'll need the additional people to handle this new mega bank. 

 

Definitely a psychological blow to the city though (I dread thinking of tomorrow's PD headline), and a blow to the nonprofit community here unless PNC commits to a high level of community giving.  Hopefully they will, since Nat City was a big community partner in Pittsburgh when they entered their market 10 or so years ago.  I know that really means nothing today, but I'm trying to be optimistic.

Bad news all the way around. My NCC stock went from 35 percent above my original costs to 30 percent down. Thanks PNC. You suck.

^way to keep things in perspective

^Actually it was the now-gone regime that ran NCC into the ground that sucks.