I'm not sure why you would find it objectionable that somebody wouldn't be a fan of hip hop culture, or a place that caters to a black hip hop crowd?  For whatever reason as mentioned in the Ohio City thread, gun violence and hip hop clubs/culture just seem to go hand in hand.  So whats wrong with somebody not caring for that culture?

Again, (as mentioned in the discussion in March), I'm hoping this guy can be successful with his club and operate with a higher standard than we have seen with others, because there really needs to be an example of non-violent hip hop club.

BTW, its OK to not be a fan of nipple clamps or gay culture (yet that's all you seem to talk about), I'm not a big fan myself.   

 

Bottom line, I think Doc-Broc may have been unaware that it was actually a club that does cater to the black community. 

Because that's a very broad and unfair way to describe the "culture". What about Christian Hip-Hop? They're part of the culture. What about conscious hip-hop artists or alternative hip-hop artists like The Roots? They're part of the culture. What I think the person was objecting to is this painting of hip-hop culture with such a broad brush when the reality is that the culture is much more diverse than I think you're giving it credit for. Its not really about being a "fan". You don't have to be a fan. But it was painting hip-hop culture with just as broad of a brush as people used to do to Rock and Roll in years past as well as what was done to Jazz in the 1920s in some circles . It was unfair then and its unfair now. Just sayin'. :)

So are there any playhouse square developments?

Yep.  There is a black centric upscale lounge, which spells its name kind of funny, seeking a zoning variance for live entertainment.

I'm not sure why you would find it objectionable that somebody wouldn't be a fan of hip hop culture, or a place that caters to a black hip hop crowd?  For whatever reason as mentioned in the Ohio City thread, gun violence and hip hop clubs/culture just seem to go hand in hand.  So whats wrong with somebody not caring for that culture?

Again, (as mentioned in the discussion in March), I'm hoping this guy can be successful with his club and operate with a higher standard than we have seen with others, because there really needs to be an example of non-violent hip hop club.

BTW, its OK to not be a fan of nipple clamps or gay culture (yet that's all you seem to talk about), I'm not a big fan myself.   

 

Bottom line, I think Doc-Broc may have been unaware that it was actually a club that does cater to the black community. 

Because that's a very broad and unfair way to describe the "culture". What about Christian Hip-Hop? They're part of the culture. What about conscious hip-hop artists or alternative hip-hop artists like The Roots? They're part of the culture. What I think the person was objecting to is this painting of hip-hop culture with such a broad brush when the reality is that the culture is much more diverse than I think you're giving it credit for. Its not really about being a "fan". You don't have to be a fan. But it was painting hip-hop culture with just as broad of a brush as people used to do to Rock and Roll in years past as well as what was done to Jazz in the 1920s in some circles . It was unfair then and its unfair now. Just sayin'. :)

 

OMG, how would you get that from what I said.  I/we have been specifically talking about black hip/hop culture and clubs (The type that glorifies violence, thus why these clubs always end up having shootings associated with them). 

How is that painting all hip hop with a broad brush?  If the stereo type of these places is unfair, then that is because of their history (which I agree is likely unfair to legitimate hip hop). 

 

That's why I said I hoped that this one takes a different direction. 

So are there any playhouse square developments?

 

Cowell and Hubbard is planning to open by the end of the year!

^I was wondering about the status.  Great to hear.  Wonder if they are planning to open before the Christmas-New Year rush?  That is a tough time to be training a new staff....still Zack and his people have so much expeience it might be walk in the park for them.

^I was wondering about the status.  Great to hear.  Wonder if they are planning to open before the Christmas-New Year rush?  That is a tough time to be training a new staff....still Zack and his people have so much expeience it might be walk in the park for them.

 

Cleveland Magazine article posted at the bottom of the rpevious page about it.  Mantions difficulties working with historic building and questions about opening by the end of December as planned. 

Willyboy, look, I'm not going to hijack the thread and get into a fistfight about this, but just to respond, even in your explanation, you did it again (I/we have been specifically talking about black hip/hop culture and clubs (The type that glorifies violence, thus why these clubs always end up having shootings associated with them))

Note that you did not say "Gangsta Rap" or any other subgenre of hip-hop culture where this behavior is more common. You said "HIP-HOP culture". You then got a little more specific in the parentheses but you still indicted the entire culture. That's what I'm saying. Don't paint the entire culture with a broad brush based on behavior that predominately comes from one subgenre. I'm just sayin'. :)

guys...

Would love to see some of this plan take shape. Its definitely old by the looks of it.

 

Far out!  Definitely really old.  Pre Renaissance Bldg, so, maybe early/mid 1980s?

Where is that plan from?  I know that Playhouse Square is still interested in new construction on the corner of E 17th & Euclid for mixed use.

A decent amount of that was built, albeit with different users than intended.

I had posted in Cleveland General Development inquiring about a parking lot being dug up on Prospect...after going to Million Dollar Quartet this weekend I realized this parking lot is actually on Euclid across from Wyndham Hotel. 

^Is that the lot next to the Union Club?  If so, I recall somewhere on the board it being mentioned that they are making a variety of impovements to their building and parking garage.

I wasn't sure what the Union Club was so i googled it.  They are doing some downward digging on the lot between the Union Club driveway and the brown building next door. On google maps it shows a seperate parking lot to the right of the garage entrance.  Thanks for the response!!!

I was at playhouse square last night and the new walkway and entry path are coming along very nicely, it looks great! Unfortunately I didn't take pictures... But had a question. I think the side of the Keith Building that faces E. 17th has been covered in scaffolding ever since I moved here about 4 years ago! What are they doing??

Good question, mrclifton.  That eyesore should be taken down asap.  4 years??  Ridiculous!!

I think the side of the Keith Building that faces E. 17th has been covered in scaffolding ever since I moved here about 4 years ago! What are they doing??

 

Protecting pedestrians from falling clay tile.  Other than that, nothing.  Some of the worst of the clay tile was replaced several years ago, but I haven't seen any further work on the side of the building since then.  Until the city or the Playhouse Square Foundation leans on the building owners, they don't seem to be motivated to do anything further.  I agree, however, that it would be great if they would get whatever work done that needs to be done and remove the scaffolding already. 

United Airlines has chosen Cleveland to be the headquarters of the Great Lakes Sales Region.  According to the November 8, 2011 Crains, United's digs will be at 1240 Huron.

MD, do you know what that means?  The article didnt really give much info, so I wasnt sure if it was acutally something to be excited about or not. 

jobs and newly leased office space?

jobs and newly leased office space?

 

Don't know about jobs numbers, etc, but yes, newly leased office space

Well one would hope, and I wasnt clear that Cleveland didnt already have a regional sales office.  Since the article is sort of a puff piece and since there is a lack of any real details (and by the tone they certainly would have mentioned details worth mentioning) I was sort of tempering my excitement until more details came out.   

MD, do you know what that means?  The article didnt really give much info, so I wasnt sure if it was acutally something to be excited about or not. 

 

I take it to mean that sales and marketing related activities for UAL's Great Lakes Region will be done out of a Cleveland office.  Yes, its something to be excited about. 

But is this really good? CO already had a sales office here (on E 9th, I think). And presumably UA had one in Chicago as that was their HQ. does this mean UA will not do sales for the Midwest out of Chicago---and do it only in CLE?

 

But more worrisome---does this foreshadow a hub closure by their offering a little something in return?

^ Or does it show they are more invested in us?

 

But is this really good? CO already had a sales office here (on E 9th, I think). And presumably UA had one in Chicago as that was their HQ. does this mean UA will not do sales for the Midwest out of Chicago---and do it only in CL

But more worrisome---does this foreshadow a hub closure by their offering a little something in return?

 

What this means is that the combined airline will consolidate its Great Lakes Reegional sales office in Cleveland.  Why is this worrisome??  If nthey ever were to close the hub, youd get nothing in return. 

Yeah, sounds like a positive development for CLE?

Could be if the hub remains. A major loss if UA is doing this as a political replacement for the hub.

Could be if the hub remains. A major loss if UA is doing this as a political replacement for the hub.

That doesn't make since.  The direct jobs associated with our hub, if lost, won't be replaced by this office in no way.

 

The hub isn't going anywhere at this time, lets put a squash on the speculation, cause that will only insure that this thread is locked!

The direct jobs associated with our hub, if lost, won't be replaced by this office in no way.

 

That's what i said: "[it would be] A major loss [to the city] if UA is doing this [building this sales office here] as a political replacement for the hub." Meaning, if they are pretending to be giving something to the city, while taking away something far greater.

 

Ok, now back to Playhouse Square...

 

 

This on Design Review's agenda for this week:

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/drcagenda/2011/11182011/index.php

 

Why is this building on Euclid being demolished? Please don't tell me it's for more surface parking! If it is for parking, I sure hope it's at least for a garage with a decent-looking facade and sidewalk retail.....

 

DF2011-074 - Hanna Building Annex Demolition ©

Project Address: 1512 Euclid Avenue

Project Representative: Tom Einhouse, Playhouse Square

 

 

What will it add? Like 20 spaces?

 

Also this has/is being discussed in the demolitions thread

^This demolition was brought up in the Cleveland demolition thread yesterday and the poster suggested (hoped) that he could accept the tear down because it would lead to the eventual development of the surface lot.

 

I responded that I hope so but that I thought that had been a surface lot for a very  long time (decades?) and that we often say on this board that this or that surface lot downtown is prime for development and more often than not nothing happens or nothing happens for years and years.

 

I can see where Ink is coming from but I would feel much better if The Playhouse Square Association at least made a announcement that they had some plans for the parcel (and I am sure they do have it on their wish list...my problem it is a wish list) no matter how vague or contingent on 20 other things happening (the big one of course being $$).

Another big issue with tearing down buildings of this size is that it eliminates small, local developers from jumping into the mix of city development.  A small developer cannot afford to purchase a piece of property in the CBD, and certainly can't afford to building a new building of the same size.  But what they can do is purchase small underutilized buildings like this and turn it into a revenue generating property and positive development for the city.  Joshua Hall on Prospect Ave is a perfect, and unfortunately rare example of this thought process.  For that property a partnership of 2 small businesses purchased that building for around $250,000 in 2002 and turned it into office on the first level, parking in the back along Bolivar, and 4 condominiums upstairs, and generated almost 4 times the $250k in the end.  When small, attainable buildings are eliminated, the little guy is blocked from impacting his city.

There is a late-1990s era City of Cleveland ordinance on the books that prohibits the demolition of buildings in the CBD unless there is a serious plan to redevelop within two years or unless there is an economic study that shows profitable redevelopment is impossible.

 

But, the City has some history of not enforcing this ordinance (for example, Frangos at East 9th & Carnegie). 

Then why isn't an attorney for a preservation society rattling his saber?

There is a late-1990s era City of Cleveland ordinance on the books that prohibits the demolition of buildings in the CBD unless there is a serious plan to redevelop within two years or unless there is an economic study that shows profitable redevelopment is impossible.

 

This is good to know---we can hold this to the owner/demolisher if we don't see something in 2 years. Do you have a paragraph/citation for the law?

 

^Does anybody know who owns the property?  My guess is the Playhouse Square Association.  If this is true the city is not going to hold their feet to the fire to develop in two years since they do have a master plan for the area and have already invested millions over the years.  They are a whole different beast from your run of the mill owner in this instance.  Moreover, as noted, the city does not seem too keen to enforce the ordiance no matter who or what.

Go to the Planning Commission's GIS and zoom in until you can see property lines. Then change the search criteria to "identify" then click on the property you want to know about.

 

The answer is yes, all but one of eight properties on the south side of Euclid from East 14th to the newly extended East 17th Street is owned by the Playhouse Square Foundation. The only difference is that the Hanna Building and the two bowling alley properties to the east of it (1510-1516 Euclid Ave) are owned by a separate Playhouse Square Foundation corporation called PSC Hanna Building LLC. This is the corporation which owns the building to be demolished.

 

Playhouse Square Foundation directly owns 1520 and 1524 Euclid, then skips a parcel at 1604 Euclid owned by Ohio Realty-Euclid LLC, before the next two parcels east of that at 1610 and 1614 Euclid are directly owned by the Playhouse Square Foundation. All five of those parcels are used for parking.

 

The extended East 17th Street is owned by Cleveland RTA because it was constructed as part of the Euclid Corridor project.

BEAUTIFUL!!

 

PlayhouseSquare to sell downtown Cleveland office building to the K&D Group for apartments

 

A private developer plans to convert a PlayhouseSquare office building into 102 apartments, capturing explosive rental demand and bringing the first residential project to the heart of Cleveland's theater district.

 

PlayhouseSquare has agreed to sell the Hanna Building Annex on East 14th Street to the K&D Group of Willoughby

 

The largest privately held owner of apartments in Northeast Ohio, K&D plans to acquire the downtown property by April 1. PlayhouseSquare and K&D executives declined to comment publicly on the purchase price for the building, an eight-story structure that houses the Hanna Theatre.

 

Leaders of the nonprofit PlayhouseSquare Foundation have been dreaming about residential projects for more than a decade. With occupancy rising at downtown apartments -- approaching 95 percent during the third quarter, according to the Downtown Cleveland Alliance -- PlayhouseSquare thinks it's the right time to bring more renters to the nation's second-largest performing arts center.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2011/12/playhousesquare_to_sell_downto.html

Just read the title so far, but great news!

Boomtown.  :clap:

That's damn exciting.

This has been posted in two different threads, can the information be posted in only one thread only so we dont have overlapping comments, across the board?  Just a a thought as it may streamline topics on the board.

This has been posted in two different threads, can the information be posted in only one thread only so we dont have overlapping comments, across the board?  Just a a thought as it may streamline topics on the board.

 

Agreed. It should probably go here.

This is such great news, hopefully this momentum continues. The position of the Annex building on Prospect is encouraging, that area needs some help. There's so much life coming into the Euclid side and then prospect is like a dead zone. Here's the beginning of that changing!!

Wonder if this is the office building conversion 3231 spoke of earlier this month? Either way, it's great news. Keep 'em coming!

 

EDIT: I wonder how or if the K&D project figures into this (below)?

 

This on Design Review's agenda for this week:

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/drcagenda/2011/11182011/index.php

 

Why is this building on Euclid being demolished? Please don't tell me it's for more surface parking! If it is for parking, I sure hope it's at least for a garage with a decent-looking facade and sidewalk retail.....

 

DF2011-074 - Hanna Building Annex Demolition ©

Project Address: 1512 Euclid Avenue

Project Representative: Tom Einhouse, Playhouse Square

 

 

 

EDIT #2: I just finished reading the article all the way through and see the answer to my question above....

 

Eventually, PlayhouseSquare would like to see new residential construction, atop historic buildings at East 13th and Euclid and in place of a parking lot across from the Palace Theatre. But in a soft economy, with construction financing still hard to find, tackling an existing building seemed more feasible.

 

So it sounds like PS wanted to make the site more marketable and reduce the cost of development by razing 1512 Euclid Ave.

Wonder if this is the office building conversion 3231 spoke of earlier this month? Either way, it's great news. Keep 'em coming!

 

 

Yes, this is the project that I had mentioned. I really like this move by Playhouse Square. It makes a lot of sense as it gets residents into the heart of PHS, helps support existing retail and restaurant tenants, will most likely increase their (PHS) tenancy in their other buildings as PHS will most likely offer the displaced tenants some sweet incentives to move into the Hanna or their buildings across the street. 

 

I also noted that work has begun on the vacant office building across from CSU's law school (next to that cheap hotel at the corner of 18th & Euclid). CSU is going to take up a number of floors. Though the upper floors were vacant, the ground floor spaces are mostly filled by long-time (& unique) tenants. They've stripped off some 1960s-esque facade modifications, so it looks like the storefronts will get freshened up.