September 28, 20231 yr 3 hours ago, Oldmanladyluck said: I believe it is indeed intentional, but more so based on city ordinance. The city only allows so many billboards and for every new billboard that goes up, one (or two of the new billboard is electronic) must be removed if I recall correctly. While nobody wants ads plastered absolutely everywhere I think the lack of them makes the city look forlorn. At least give the theater (and other entertainment) districts a built-in variance.
September 28, 20231 yr I agree but it would need to come before council. Anyone know a councilmember who may be willing to take that on? Or does anyone know how the mayor feels about billboards?
September 28, 20231 yr the projector on the lumen garage was supposed to be that. turned out to be relatively unsuccessful because playhouse square is much too bright. the garage should be a screen or a banner if the want to advertise shows on it. Edited September 28, 20231 yr by Whipjacka
September 28, 20231 yr I don't see the need for more billboards besides imitating the outward appearance of a different, successful theater district. If we want Playhouse Square to feel more lively, we need more people, not more ads.
September 28, 20231 yr I don't see the need for more billboards besides imitating the outward appearance of a different, successful theater district. If we want Playhouse Square to feel more lively, we need more people, not more ads.Playhouse square needs to have a draw to the area outside of the theaters. What that is idk but theater goers are such a small demographic, limited to a specific time of day. They also seem to be only interested in going to a show and going home, adding to the dead feel. They need to figure out something that will keep people flowing through the neighborhood day to night. That is why when lumen had such a small retail presence I was confused because it was the perfect time to build something that would be a draw to both residents and visitors. Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
September 29, 20231 yr some people want to poo poo and pile on a rendering or construction pic... but I think the new marquees look great.. https://youtu.be/HnRflWrQ_Gg?si=MXHgdWkEa4gSICjC
September 29, 20231 yr I confess, I was very skeptical of the renderings. I really liked the nostalgic feeling of the old lights and signage. But the actual photos I have seen look incredible! I'm looking forward to seeing them on my next trip to CLE.
September 29, 20231 yr 15 hours ago, MyPhoneDead said: Playhouse square needs to have a draw to the area outside of the theaters. What that is idk but theater goers are such a small demographic, limited to a specific time of day. They also seem to be only interested in going to a show and going home, adding to the dead feel. They need to figure out something that will keep people flowing through the neighborhood day to night. That is why when lumen had such a small retail presence I was confused because it was the perfect time to build something that would be a draw to both residents and visitors. Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk Yes! They should do something grand with the Greyhound building like a jazz bar / upscale restaurant. Or add a "Dave & Busters" type space somewhere in the neighborhood.
September 29, 20231 yr 26 minutes ago, sky said: Yes! They should do something grand with the Greyhound building like a jazz bar / upscale restaurant. Or add a "Dave & Busters" type space somewhere in the neighborhood. jazz club please
September 29, 20231 yr 1 minute ago, ASP1984 said: jazz club please Oh man, this would be amazing. Bop is great, but sure would be nice to have a jazz outpost in the core.
September 29, 20231 yr Jazz club would be nice. I think any kind of dinner and a show thing would be cool. Step One - call it the Greyhound. Step 2 - Art Deco/Streamline Moderne the F out of the interior. Step 3 - profit?!
September 29, 20231 yr Incoming! "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
September 29, 20231 yr Thank you @Geowizicalfor the great graphics! Repurposed Greyhound station, tower planned By Ken Prendergast / September 29, 2023 Two Connecticut development firms have returned to their state’s Western Reserve with the goal of redeveloping the landmark Greyhound bus station in downtown Cleveland. While their plans are still early on, a basic concept for the plan appears to be taking form and the developers are reaching out to City Hall and Playhouse Square Foundation officials to get their input on that vision that could include a repurposed station and an apartment tower. MORE: https://neo-trans.blog/2023/09/29/repurposed-greyhound-station-tower-planned/ "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
September 29, 20231 yr 2 hours ago, Ineffable_Matt said: Jazz club would be nice. I think any kind of dinner and a show thing would be cool. Step One - call it the Greyhound. Step 2 - Art Deco/Streamline Moderne the F out of the interior. Step 3 - profit?! Absolutely perfect place for a jazz club - adjacent to Playhouse Square - to continue the Entertainment after the shows - adjacent to Cleveland State to bring in some of the college crowd that hopefully has a couple more bucks in their pocket than I did in college (that should be easy) Love @Ineffable_Matt’s name suggestion - The Greyhound. As for the tower- the taller the better - right now the massing looks around 22 stories - that’s close to a City Club- not too shabby! Let this happen!!!
September 29, 20231 yr But I worry that it will block the view of the Terminal Tower from the Third Central Station.
September 29, 20231 yr But I worry that it will block the view of the Terminal Tower from the Third Central Station.This type of stuff never bothers me. As cities grow we will always run the risk of losing certain views and that's okay, that's progress.Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
September 29, 20231 yr not that the business is particularly healthy, but this would be one of the good opportunities if playhouse square wanted a multi-screen movie theatre. could serve as an anchor to a larger development and feed off csu's potential growth
September 30, 20231 yr I'm pretty sure @Husat77was being tounge in cheek and not seriously lamenting no longer being able to see the TT.
September 30, 20231 yr View of Terminal Tower was obliterated from points east a long time ago by BP (aka 200 Public Square). Having views blocked by new towers is a good thing. Cleveland is starting to look like a big city. Edited September 30, 20231 yr by LibertyBlvd
September 30, 20231 yr 55 minutes ago, cadmen said: I'm pretty sure @Husat77was being tounge in cheek and not seriously lamenting no longer being able to see the TT. It was an homage to Terdolph
September 30, 20231 yr This will be bittersweet for me. I took the Greyhound all the way to Anaheim in summer of 2021, had the best time of my life. But then again, I remember meeting a ventriloquist who called himself "The Joker" while waiting for my first bus... and there was that crackhead who ranted about being the Devil's ex GF all the way through Utah & Colorado... and I guess that dude who hopped around like a bunny & would randomly stop to stare at people without blinking for like 15 seconds at a time was weird. And I did see one person have a seizure & another (who was not wearing pants) have a heart attack... I get it, I really do.
October 4, 20231 yr On 9/29/2023 at 12:55 PM, KJP said: Thank you @Geowizicalfor the great graphics! Repurposed Greyhound station, tower planned By Ken Prendergast / September 29, 2023 Two Connecticut development firms have returned to their state’s Western Reserve with the goal of redeveloping the landmark Greyhound bus station in downtown Cleveland. While their plans are still early on, a basic concept for the plan appears to be taking form and the developers are reaching out to City Hall and Playhouse Square Foundation officials to get their input on that vision that could include a repurposed station and an apartment tower. MORE: https://neo-trans.blog/2023/09/29/repurposed-greyhound-station-tower-planned/ i see stamford twenty lakes, the lead in this development, is owned by alden global capital in the manhattan lipstick building. they are a ruthless hedgie venture cap firm mostly known for buying up a bunch of major newspapers and gutting them — per wiki: Alden Global Capital's management of American newspapers has been criticized. Joe Pompeo pilloried Alden in Vanity Fair for reducing newsrooms. He wrote, "Alden Global Capital has eliminated the jobs of scores of reporters and editors, and decimated journalism in cities all over the country: Denver, Boston, San Jose, Trenton, etc. Next up: Chicago, Baltimore, and the New York Daily News." In October 2021, The Atlantic examined the impact of Alden's acquisition of the Chicago Tribune, noting that, "The new owners did not fly to Chicago to address the staff, nor did they bother with paeans to the vital civic role of journalism. Instead, they gutted the place." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alden_Global_Capital ^ i dk what that means for their re developments side, but its eye opening. on the re end i found joe miller is the twenty lakes holding founder and continues to run it for the past ten years: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joe-miller-99049414 and as far as action they generate $4M revenue in holdings and buy up stuff, but dont seem to have any experience in building new towers. ie., all i could find lately is it looks like twenty lakes/alden made some $ this spring by selling the bldg and moving their chicago tribune publishing out to schaumburg to make way for a new ballys casino: https://therealdeal.com/chicago/2023/05/18/twenty-lake-picks-up-new-printing-plant-to-make-way-for-chicago-casino/ good news is i suppose with cutthroat alden behind them twenty lakes could pull off an all new development financially, but it seems actually building a res tower would be something new for them. so all in all a bit of caution with this cle greyhound tower proposal.
October 4, 20231 yr To clarify, Twenty Lake is only a landowner, at least when it comes to the Greyhound site in Cleveland. They hired another Connecticut company to develop the site -- Glimcher Capital Group (not to be confused with the Pittsburgh-based shopping center developer with the almost identical name). "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
October 6, 20231 yr yeah i didn’t get to them until now, but i see david glimcher is an attorney who worked for jones day, so that was probably the impetus for this as he would be familiar with downtown cleveland. i see his group has in part worked on developing the front of ballys in vegas and are currently in the err, umm, pack of developers in this: Currently, Glimcher is developing the residential portion of Titletown on behalf of Titletown Development, LLC, the real estate development arm of the Green Bay Packers. Titletown is a nearly 45 acre parcel of land located just to the West of Green Bay's iconic Lambeau Field. Currently, Titletown contains a large public park and plaza with outdoor games and fitness activities; a winter skating rink and tubing hill located at Ariens Hill; the four-diamond Lodge Kohler hotel; the Bellin Health Titletown Sports Medicine & Orthopedics Clinic; Hinterland Restaurant and Brewery; and TitletownTech, a one-of-a-kind partnership with Microsoft. https://www.glimchercapitalgroup.com so i don’t see they have any experience building res towers either, but it looks like they would be able to handle a greyhound station reset. not saying it can’t happen of course, but apparantly they have no experience, so twenty lakes and glimcher $$ superfriends wonder twin powers will need to activate to get the res tower up.
October 23, 20231 yr Greyhound Terminal News. https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate/cleveland-greyhound-station-sized-redo
November 10, 20231 yr Todays Landmark Planning Commission meeting had an interesting presentation from Playhouse Square with regards to The Allen Theatre's new marquee design. Somehow The National Park Service disapproved the original design that was presented to this commission and asked for the design to be changed and simplified. I still don't understand why they disapproved of the first design and had all flourishes removed. You can see Playhouse Square had to present multiple designs for final approval. I also wonder whom on the commission asked for the reasoning? Fascinating also to hear that The State Historical Society also approved the original plan. Only NPS disapproved because she says she had "vast knowledge of marquee designs from around the world "whatever that may mean lol
November 10, 20231 yr ^ what a weird power move out of nowhere that was. fortunately this new version is fine. i wish it said theater or theatre underneath allen though.
November 10, 20231 yr Todays Landmark Planning Commission meeting had an interesting presentation from Playhouse Square with regards to The Allen Theatre's new marquee design. Somehow The National Park Service disapproved the original design that was presented to this commission and asked for the design to be changed and simplified. I still don't understand why they disapproved of the first design and had all flourishes removed. You can see Playhouse Square had to present multiple designs for final approval. I also wonder whom on the commission asked for the reasoning? Fascinating also to hear that The State Historical Society also approved the original plan. Only NPS disapproved because she says she had "vast knowledge of marquee designs from around the world "whatever that may mean lol The mentioning of their "vast Marquee experience at the NPS" was hilarious because you could tell the presenter held back a laugh as much as they could [emoji23].Sent from my Pixel 8 Pro using Tapatalk
November 11, 20231 yr Why does The National Park Service have any say in what the sign looks like? The theatre is in an urban environment far away from any park that they control.
November 11, 20231 yr 4 minutes ago, mthompson said: Why does The National Park Service have any say in what the sign looks like? The theatre is in an urban environment far away from any park that they control. NPS oversees the National Historic Landmarks program for the Department of the Interior. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
January 30, 20241 yr NE Ohio wins two transformational tax credits By Ken Prendergast / January 29, 2024 Out of eight Northeast Ohio development projects that applied for Transformational Mixed Use Development (TMUD) tax credits from the state, only two of them received the awards, the Ohio Department of Development announced today. This was the third year of the four-year TMUD program with $100 million available in TMUD tax credits each year. MORE: https://neo-trans.blog/2024/01/29/ne-ohio-wins-two-transformational-tax-credits/ "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
January 30, 20241 yr Any detectives out there know what PHS is going to do with this $ 2 million award?
January 30, 20241 yr seems like it may cost a couple million bucks to prep the building for more floors to be built atop.
January 30, 20241 yr The additional floors will change the feel of that area. With the Lumen, it will help extend the "big city" feel eastward. Once this project is fnished, I wonder if Playhouse will turn their attention to Chester Ave?
January 30, 20241 yr I'm trying to figure this out and nothing I can imagine adds up to the square footage numbers PHS has in their TMUD application. If we include the Lumen's square footage, since the project was noted in the TMUD application, it doesn't make sense. The building measures 602,000 SF. But that includes the 550-space (roughly 165,000 SF) parking garage and 22,000 SF of ground-floor retail/lobby space. It has 318 apartments. At 1,000 SF average per unit, that's 318,000 SF. It's probable that the Lumen averages more than the usual 1K SF for a Cleveland apartment building. But I'm going to leave it at it's smallest number to show that, even at the minimum, the numbers don't add up. So if we add to the Lumen the 72,384 SF of residential space in the Bulkley Building. Now we're up to 390,000 SF of residential space. That's way below the 463,000 SF of residential cited in the TMUD. So add the 90-unit Residences at the Hanna. If it's 90,000 SF, now we're at 480,000 SF which is above the residential space cited in the TMUD, and that's using conservative data for the Lumen. If we don't include the Lumen's square footage at all and rely just on the Bulkley Building's partial conversion that's already underway, then the numbers don't even come close to what's in the TMUD. And I didn't think a delivered building could be included in a TMUD application. Can it? If you put an 8-story, stick-built apartment building above 1305/1317 Euclid (which has a combined floor plate of 30,000 SF), that's a 240,000 SF building. No one is going to build a new-construction residential building with floorplates that are double the normal size. Put an atrium/light well in the middle of it and you can shrink the floorplates by about 5,000-10,000 SF. But that only sends us in the wrong direction space-wise, since we're trying to get to 463,000 SF of residential as cited in the TMUD. Add 160,000 or 240,000 SF to the Bulkley's 72,384 SF and we're still far from 463,000 SF. So I don't get it. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
January 30, 20241 yr ^ What I'm hearing is that the only logical conclusion is that they forgot the II after "the Lumen." 🤞😂
January 30, 20241 yr So Ken, after reading your neo-trans post l'm trying figure out if Playhouse Square is being vague with their application, if TMUD is being vague with their announcement or if my reading comprehension needs work. I can't remember this kind of confusion with past applications/reward announcements.
January 30, 20241 yr 34 minutes ago, Ethan said: ^ What I'm hearing is that the only logical conclusion is that they forgot the II after "the Lumen." 🤞😂 If that is the case, where is Lumen II going and why have we not heard anything about it except for wishful thinking by some posters on this site?
January 30, 20241 yr 4 minutes ago, LibertyBlvd said: If that is the case, where is Lumen II going and why have we not heard anything about it except for wishful thinking by some posters on this site? I'm mostly just being facetious. I'm just as confused as everyone else.
January 30, 20241 yr 1 hour ago, KJP said: I'm trying to figure this out and nothing I can imagine adds up to the square footage numbers PHS has in their TMUD application. We're all missing some piece of information that PSF has not yet released. I don't think they could include either of the Lumen or the Hanna because both of those are complete. Certainly the Bulkley Building (72,384 SF) factors in, but that leaves a big number still to come. And I thought you couldn't get TMUD credits without a plan -- I thought TMUD was supposed to help at the end of the financing stack to make sure projects moved forward (and yet we've still seen plenty of TMUD-awarded projects NOT happen (yet?) even with a plan). Added floors above 1305/1317 would be great (160,000 or 240,000 SF) and seems like an obvious move. Maybe floors could be added to the Middough Building on 13th -- but that was sold to CSU. Looks like we're short about 230,000 SF to get to 463,000 SF, right? So what are the remaining options -- purchase and renovation of the Keith Building at Euclid/E17th and/or the Signet building on Euclid/E13th? Secret construction plans for Chester -- corner of 13th & Chester, PS's parking garage, or on lots north of Chester?? (Please!) That's all that I can think of. Hopefully Playhouse Square will be making an announcement soon.
January 30, 20241 yr This is a mystery. In case it matters, I think the Greyhound building is around 37000 sf. It sits on just over 2 acres.
January 30, 20241 yr 6 minutes ago, sky said: In case it matters, I think the Greyhound building is around 37000 sf. It sits on just over 2 acres. I think the general hope/expectation is that the current Greyhound building won't be used in its current configuration -- at least the facade will be saved, and at least the back side will be demolished, and then something taller will be built and the overall building will take up more of the available acreage. Perhaps a parking garage in back with apartments above? It's all speculation and wishful thinking for now.
January 31, 20241 yr Perform and stay: Playhouse Square renovation includes apartments for performers and crew Published: Jan. 30, 2024, 5:17 p.m. Megan Sims, cleveland.com CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Playhouse Square is close to bringing its vision of apartment living to life. On Tuesday, Playhouse Square provided a look into the progress of its renovation of the Bulkley Building on Euclid Avenue, a $50 million investment that began at the end of 2023. Formerly home to administrative offices for Playhouse Square, the fourth, fifth, sixth and seventh floors are set to become 84 apartments - a mix of studio, one-bedroom and two-bedroom units. The financial help is not only be for the Bulkley renovation, but is also supporting the construction of the Lumen, the high-rise apartment adjacent to the Hanna Building, along with the renovation of the Idea Center, and 1317 Euclid Ave. building in the Playhouse Square Campus. https://www.cleveland.com/realestate-news/2024/01/perform-and-stay-playhouse-square-renovation-includes-apartments-for-performers-and-crew.html?outputType=amp
January 31, 20241 yr 7 hours ago, MuRrAy HiLL said: Perform and stay: Playhouse Square renovation includes apartments for performers and crew Published: Jan. 30, 2024, 5:17 p.m. Megan Sims, cleveland.com CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Playhouse Square is close to bringing its vision of apartment living to life. On Tuesday, Playhouse Square provided a look into the progress of its renovation of the Bulkley Building on Euclid Avenue, a $50 million investment that began at the end of 2023. Formerly home to administrative offices for Playhouse Square, the fourth, fifth, sixth and seventh floors are set to become 84 apartments - a mix of studio, one-bedroom and two-bedroom units. The financial help is not only be for the Bulkley renovation, but is also supporting the construction of the Lumen, the high-rise apartment adjacent to the Hanna Building, along with the renovation of the Idea Center, and 1317 Euclid Ave. building in the Playhouse Square Campus. https://www.cleveland.com/realestate-news/2024/01/perform-and-stay-playhouse-square-renovation-includes-apartments-for-performers-and-crew.html?outputType=amp But the Lumen is completed?
January 31, 20241 yr Are Cleveland dot com reporters really that dim ... why did Megan Sims say the money is supporting the construction of the Lumen?
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