A Crocker Park in Solon?

 

Posted by Bob Sandrick September 24, 2007 19:07PM

 

A University Heights developer hopes to create an east-side Crocker Park in Solon.\

 

For more details, see the Sept. 27 Solon Herald Sun.

bah!

This sounds absolutely horrible.  I used to have a lot of respect for Coral, after they bought Shaker Square and took over the Staler Arms Building, but lately they've been losing that respect with housing developments in Crocker Park and now this crap in Solon.

 

Way to contribute to sprawl!

took us to Crocker Park and shared with us their philosophy

 

Couldn't they have saved some gas and just told them, "Listen, we're gonna try to take your POS suburb and attempt to make it look a little bit like one of those old-fashioned cities, so brainless exurbians will actually shop here thinking it's really cool."

This sounds fine to me except for the additional retail component - because we all know about the over saturation of retail in the region.

At least they are re-working existing development. As opposed to creating a new development on greenspace. This has the potential to be a good thing for Solon.

Hmmm... It is located right next to one of the four NOACA NEORail commuter rail lines that made the final cut. The Cleveland-Aurora line was the highest ranking of the four in terms of high potential ridership and low operating costs. The start-up costs were estimated to be higher than the West Shore Corridor, however.

 

This might be a terrific TOD. Wonder what potential there would be for a TIF to help provide for the commuter rail service? And, lest we forget, Solon was starting to develop a downtown in the 1920s, focused on the intersection of SR91 and SR43. That's just south of where this Coral development is proposed.

Exurb trash no matter how it's sugar coated.

^Somehow I doubt they are looking at making it a TOD.

 

Depressing stuff. It perpetuates the retail, office and residential "moat" around the city and inner ring suburbs that keeps so many people from visiting the urban core.

Interesting to see Crocker Park/Westlake being threatened by development in Avon, so I wonder if the Beachwood/Legacy people are concerned about this proposal.

Interesting to see Crocker Park/Westlake being threatened by development in Avon, so I wonder if the Beachwood/Legacy people are concerned about this proposal.

 

I wonder to, but thinking about it, they shouldn't have to worry too much if it has the same in-line stores as Beachwood and Legacy on top of the fact that it probably won't have a 1 store per region anchor like Saks, Nordstrom or Crate & Barrel

I know Solon.  This will never happen.

Well, there is already a lifestyle center about to pop up in Seven Hills on Rockside Road, and also one in Brecksville off of I-77 and one in "downtown" North Royalton. They are all ahead of Solon in the planning stages (especially the one in Seven Hills), so I'd say that eventually in 2020 we'll just have 50 lifestyle centers and it will be the death of strip malls and shopping plaza's, but not the death of downtown, since we're getting a Stark lifestyle center there too... Yay for lifestyle centers. I can't wait for all 50 of them to sprout up.

I hardly think the Cleveland development can be considered a "lifestyle center."

Can't wait. This should be great for the entire region.  (emoticon)

I hardly think the Cleveland development can be considered a "lifestyle center."

 

I hope not. We'll see what Stark has in mind. A lot of stuff, even new urbanist-inspired development, looks kind of cheesy/overcommercialized when it's new.

Where are the eco-terrorists when we need them? 

Where are the eco-terrorists when we need them? 

 

Forum meet!

For the record, the proprietors of UrbanOhio.com do not advocate violence of any kind.

Hmmm... It is located right next to one of the four NOACA NEORail commuter rail lines that made the final cut. The Cleveland-Aurora line was the highest ranking of the four in terms of high potential ridership and low operating costs. The start-up costs were estimated to be higher than the West Shore Corridor, however.

 

This might be a terrific TOD. Wonder what potential there would be for a TIF to help provide for the commuter rail service? And, lest we forget, Solon was starting to develop a downtown in the 1920s, focused on the intersection of SR91 and SR43. That's just south of where this Coral development is proposed.

 

Very true, KJP, I just wonder how much that's an accident or whether it truly is insight into adding value to such a tight-knit development just in case NEO-Rail ever develops this route?  Cynically, I tend to think the former... You know, Crocker Park, which is a very nice (I must confess despite my anger at its existence where it is in our struggling metro area), dense faux downtown (whoever said CP is actually more of a diverse/vibrant downtown, at the moment, than the real downtown was right), could have similarly been built astride the West Shore commuter Line (also a NEO-Rail finalist, if I'm not mistaken) you are currently trying valiantly to activate.  Yet Bob Stark chose to stick the place in the at the edge of that boring, sprawling, cul-de-sac-ed, homogenized no-man's land we call Westlake at the edge of the county not far from, of course, a freeway exit, much like this new proposed Solon joint.

 

I'm not thrilled; in fact, I'm repulsed.  This is Cleveland, where talk of development of TOD is rare and when it does attempt to materialize, as it happily appears to be in the U.Circle area, it's after year's of battle.  (and mind you, U.Circle still hasn't begun just yet so I'm not counting it as a done deal)... Maybe some more progressive metro areas would come up with a sort of inverse TOD of the type you speculate for Solon.  I just don't see it here... Just seems like yet another Cleveland scheme to pull our loci farther and farther away from the struggling mother city... just like we always do.

 

I know Solon.  This will never happen.

 

This is 100% accurate.  Council is notorious for being difficult with simple things like what material the sign in front of your business is made out of, let alone re-zoning an entire section of the city and building an infrastructure around it to support that kind of traffic. 

Same deal in Westlake. Their planning commission meetings are excruciatingly nitpicky, or at least they were when I covered Westlake from 1996-2005.

ahh what must it like to follow zoning rules?  :wink:

Damn, some of you make it sound like developers in "more progressive metro areas" are jumping at the chance to build TOD around non existent rail transit.  We must be real backwards here. :roll:

Dueling developers plan Solon shopping centers

City pledges it will not use eminent domain powers

 

Tuesday, October 02, 2007

 

Molly Kavanaugh and John Caniglia

Plain Dealer Reporters

 

Solon- Two of Northeast Ohio's largest developers are racing to build separate upscale shopping complexes in a city craving retail.

 

To reach these Plain Dealer reporters:

 

mkavanaugh, 1-800-767-2821

 

[email protected], 1-800-683-7348

I, personally, hope more of these pop up. I think it's great when a market is oversaturated with what was previously a relatively unique concept.

I, personally, hope more of these pop up. I think it's great when a market is oversaturated with what was previously a relatively unique concept.

  :wtf:

^What jpop is saying is lifestyle centers were a unique concept up until 5 years ago, noe they are building/proposing them everywhere.

WKYC interview with Bob Stark - there's mention of the Warehouse District proposal as well:

 

http://www.wkyc.com/video/player.aspx?aid=44446&bw=

Dr. Crosgrove....are you listening?

Amen to that - and I'm really intrigued that he considers the Jacobs Public Square site to be a serious contender for a new tower. Things could get reallly interesting around here :-)

I believe that there is also a 'lifestyle center' pooping up in willoughby, on rt. 20 on the border of mentor. marous bros. i think. (sorry if this is old news)

i meant to italicize the word pooping

east..  if you hit the word "modify" you can edit any post you make.

I believe that there is also a 'lifestyle center' pooping up in willoughby, on rt. 20 on the border of mentor. marous bros. i think. (sorry if this is old news)

 

That would be the Chagrin River Walk by Vintage (Marous): http://www.chagrinriverwalk.com/

Zaremba Group had also planned Newell Creek Town Center in Mentor, but it sounds like that is going to be a no-go : http://www.zarembagroup.com/shopping_newell.html

 

Regardless, I can't imagine anything unique going into any of these "lifestyle centers". I certainly hope that none of these have any type of impact on the warehouse district.

Oh God if anything Zaremba plans to do resembles the Brunstucky Town Center, let's throw rocks at the Avenue District!  Talk about urban scar! :-o 

Actually there are two different companies:

 

Zaremba Group is run by Walter Zaremba, with HQ in Lakewood, and focuses on retail development, including numerous CVS, Super Kmart, and Dollar General stores in Ohio.  They also have offices in California, Florida, Georgia, and Arizona.  www.zarembagroup.com

 

Zaremba Cleveland Communities dba Zaremba Homes is run by Nathan Zaremba, Walter's son, is headquartered in Westlake, and is responsible for the Avenue District and other local residential projects.  www.zarembahomes.com

 

Not sure how inter-related their projects are, or who does the design for each, but Newell was/is a project of the Zaremba Group, while the Brunstucky Town Center belongs to Zaremba Homes.

Solon hears Robert Stark's plan for Garden District 'lifestyle center'

2 firms vie to build trendy 'lifestyle center'

Tuesday, October 16, 2007

Laura Johnston - Plain Dealer Reporter

 

Solon - Once they were novel, these lifestyle centers - mingling chic shops with snazzy restaurants, offices and open space along a make-believe Main Street of Perfectville.  Now, Northeast Ohio boasts Crocker Park in Westlake, Legacy Village in Lyndhurst and First & Main in Hudson.  Two new centers are proposed for Solon.

 

For Solon, a gleaming new project would replace worn, vacant stores and help keep taxes low.  Regionally, experts say, it could mean the death knell of other shopping centers.

 

It's the dying-mall phenomenon played out in dinosaurs like Randall Park: There's only so much shopping we can do.  "It just seems it's becoming more and more oversaturated," said James Kastelic, a Cleveland Metroparks planner who has studied Northeast Ohio retail patterns for years.  "That does not bode well for sustainability . . . in older areas."

 

MORE: http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/news/1192523597269960.xml&coll=2

so much for the garden district.  :roll:

 

this seems like it will suck the life out of his downtown wheeling and dealings. maybe stark has already conceded to the jacobs and wolstein projects, at least for awhile? i hope not.

 

also, re the article itself, i dont think its quite fair to toss hudson in with legacy and crocker. that at least played off reality.

BOOO. I do not approve of this project! Solon still has an empty Cooker near the Old Navy. They don't need Louis Vuitton!!!!

I grew up in Solon and have seen the town grow.. and this is the WORST idea ever.. Route 91 and Route 43 can't handle the traffic they have currently, let alone something like this that will draw non-regular commuters in the city.

 

This is why I can't wait to move in 2.5 months..

The former Cookers has been a Tony Romas for about 6 months now.

I grew up in Solon and have seen the town grow.. and this is the WORST idea ever.. Route 91 and Route 43 can't handle the traffic they have currently, let alone something like this that will draw non-regular commuters in the city.

 

This is why I can't wait to move in 2.5 months..

 

Neither could the intersection of Crocker and Detroit roads in Westlake. Or at least that's what everyone feared when Crocker Park was proposed. I go through the intersection fairly regularly, and I haven't noticed a big jump in traffic. Of course, the intersection was expanded.

 

How many car trips are generated by a low-density development vs. a high-density development? People drive from one shopping center to another in Solon, even if they're across the street from each other. Tear that shit down and replace it with high-density, walkable stuff, and see if the short-distance traffic goes away. It will probably be replaced with longer-distance traffic (since traffic, like water, finds its own level). It would be interesting to see what a traffic consultant (hired by the city, not by Stark) and with experience in mixed-use suburban developments would say.

Yes, but the current shopping centers don't attract people from other areas right now.. Borders and Old Navy's are everywhere in Cleveland.

Yes, but the current shopping centers don't attract people from other areas right now.. Borders and Old Navy's are everywhere in Cleveland.

 

Personally I don't think this new shopping center will not attract folks to Solon from other places, unless it can basically steal what Beachwood/Legacy Village has. If its another plain Jane mall with the gap and Abercrombie, I don't see people flocking there.

 

Edit: Meant to say will not.

FCUK, Armani Exchange, Club Monaco, the midwest's first Zara, etc....if/when these happen, they better not go out in some lame-@ss suburb! Let all of those people living in denial (including Stark) have ANOTHER Talbots, Chicos, Coldwater, and Gap.  This is ridiculous!

Yes, but the current shopping centers don't attract people from other areas right now.

 

Isn't that what I said? That's why I said it would be interesting to see if the short-distance vehicular traffic (including the stuff that no longer crosses the street from one shopping center to another) will be a wash with the longer-distance traffic coming to this site from places like Aurora, Bainbridge, Bedford Heights, Twinsburg etc.

BOOO. I do not approve of this project! Solon still has an empty Cooker near the Old Navy. They don't need Louis Vuitton!!!!

 

Although our first LV franchise closed because of mismanagement and bankruptcy, I wonder if they have a deal that prevents another LV franchise from opening?

 

 

Where was the first LV franchise located?

Where was the first LV franchise located?

 

Tower City.

Detailed website for Stark's Garden District proposal:

 

http://www.solon-gardendistrict.com