Every time I read something on this and realize I live in Solon presently, I want to get a gun and shoot my brains out..

 

One more month.. one more month and I'm out of this state.. that's all I keep reassuring myself with..

Every time I read something on this and realize I live in Solon presently, I want to get a gun and shoot my brains out..

 

One more month.. one more month and I'm out of this state.. that's all I keep reassuring myself with..

 

 

You keep saying that as if Cleveland and Ohio are the only places with suburban/exurban developments like this popping up! Welcome to America Kstay!!

You keep saying that as if Cleveland and Ohio are the only places with suburban/exurban developments like this popping up! Welcome to America Kstay!!

 

Whoa relax.. my point is based upon the fact that Solon has no need for this.. with Legacy around the corner and Solon already overdeveloped, and the fact that the city counsel really doesn't care what the citizens want.. that's why.. but thanks for the "welcoming".

I think Bob Stark knows what the City wants.  He wouldn't just build all this retail in a city if he knew everyone in that city or region didn't want that.  This isn't going to be a target and a kohls and babies R us.  This will be like a Crocker Park with upscale shopping and restaurants...something the wealthier burbs of Solon, Bainbridge, Bentlyville, and Aurora don't really have.   What do the people of the city of Solon, in your eyes, want?  What you are saying is Bob Stark is dumping his money in a project that the people of Solon don't want.

I can't wait till the day when retail in the neo area is so oversaturated that someone opens a store with my name on it and I am the only shopper.  and everything they sell are things that I want.  a store full of size 11.5 shoes, expensive bicycles, vegetarian food, used records, and coffee paraphernalia.       

 

who am I kidding, I would probably walk in, look at the pricetags, and hit the marshalls or the thrift.   

For a suburban development, it looks pretty good to me. Greater Cleveland is pretty rare in that it has one dominant employment center (downtown) with a large drop-off to much smaller employment areas (University Circle, Independence, Beachwood, etc). In other U.S. cities, and especially in European cities, there are multiple nodes that are almost as prominent as downtown. In some cases, the nodes are separated by a few miles. In others they're separated by 10-20 miles. They are typically linked by highways, rail transit and the interaction among the nodes is extensive. Will Solon's be like that? I don't know, but it may be a start in that direction -- and it has a highway and a rail line to downtown. Think 100 years into the future, and the vision is very intriguing to me.

I think Bob Stark knows what the City wants.  He wouldn't just build all this retail in a city if he knew everyone in that city or region didn't want that.  This isn't going to be a target and a kohls and babies R us.  This will be like a Crocker Park with upscale shopping and restaurants...something the wealthier burbs of Solon, Bainbridge, Bentlyville, and Aurora don't really have.   What do the people of the city of Solon, in your eyes, want?  What you are saying is Bob Stark is dumping his money in a project that the people of Solon don't want.

 

Bob Stark knows what the people of Solon want huh?  I've lived in Solon for 23 years and I don't want this project.  So I guess Bob Stark knows what a portion of the city wants.

Checking out that website I couldn't help but notice that this project has more retail and office space than Pesht will and almost as much residential.  I didn't know it would be that big.

I think Bob Stark knows what the City wants.  He wouldn't just build all this retail in a city if he knew everyone in that city or region didn't want that.  This isn't going to be a target and a kohls and babies R us.  This will be like a Crocker Park with upscale shopping and restaurants...something the wealthier burbs of Solon, Bainbridge, Bentlyville, and Aurora don't really have.   What do the people of the city of Solon, in your eyes, want?  What you are saying is Bob Stark is dumping his money in a project that the people of Solon don't want.

 

Bob Stark knows what the people of Solon want huh?  I've lived in Solon for 23 years and I don't want this project.  So I guess Bob Stark knows what a portion of the city wants.

 

My question though, what is it the City of Solon wants?  I am not trying to argue about it, but what is it the City wants in terms of Growth.  He is offering a development that increases residential and commercial tax base.  Maybe you think Solon doesn't want growth...in all fairness, that is fine if that is your opinion.   

You keep saying that as if Cleveland and Ohio are the only places with suburban/exurban developments like this popping up! Welcome to America Kstay!!

 

Whoa relax.. my point is based upon the fact that Solon has no need for this.. with Legacy around the corner and Solon already overdeveloped, and the fact that the city counsel really doesn't care what the citizens want.. that's why.. but thanks for the "welcoming".

 

All I'm saying is comments like "One more month.. one more month and I'm out of this state.. that's all I keep reassuring myself with.." make it seem as if you think you won't find developments like this in suburbs anywhere you go in THIS country.

All I'm saying is comments like "One more month.. one more month and I'm out of this state.. that's all I keep reassuring myself with.." make it seem as if you think you won't find developments like this in suburbs anywhere you go in THIS country.

 

Well that's why I won't be moving to any suburbs.

Bob Stark knows what the people of Solon want huh?  I've lived in Solon for 23 years and I don't want this project.  So I guess Bob Stark knows what a portion of the city wants.

 

You seem to be avoiding this question - what is it the citizens of Solon want? 

 

Secondly, you're aware the citizens would need to vote to rezone the proposed location of this project, correct?  So if in fact the citizens don't want this, it won't happen. 

 

For me, I am not sure how I feel about this project.  I'm completely against site B as it would require an entire neighborhood of houses to be torn down and Bainbridge Rd isn't a good fit for a secondary road for access along with 91.  Site A could be better - the shopping center it would replace needs to be updated.  Medic and Dress Barn, the two biggest stores other than Giant Eagle, are just empty store fronts.  Plus it would replace the Solon Park Apatments with newer apartments...those are rundown and have been problamatic for years now.

 

But I'm not sure the region can really support another shopping center; its not like the region is expanding.  I can't really get my arms around how this wouldn't simply be stealing business from Legacy, Beachwood, Aurora Farms, etc.  Randall Park is already empty and

run down, along with Southgate Mall.  At what point does it become detrimental to be spreading things too thin?

 

I think the traffic will work itself out and the development will be good for Solon.  I would just rather see Stark develop downtown - which is in need of help - rather than Solon, which is doing just fine. 

 

But I'm not sure the region can really support another shopping center; its not like the region is expanding.  I can't really get my arms around how this wouldn't simply be stealing business from Legacy, Beachwood, Aurora Farms, etc.  Randall Park is already empty and run down, along with Southgate Mall.  At what point does it become detrimental to be spreading things too thin?

 

I don't think you need to get your arms around anything.  In my opinion, rest assured -- you've already figured it out.  It will just be stealing business from other retail space in the nearby area. 

 

And I think it already is detrimental -- we're competing amongst ourselves while smarter regions compete against other regions.  Think of the enormous amounts of time & resource that city councils, planning departments, city workers, etc. are going to spend campaigning for, planning, and building a development such as this.  All for retail space that adds to an oversaturated market.  It'd be interesting to see that effort focused on bigger, more important issues instead of another Cheesecake Factory, Anne Taylor Loft, Apple store. etc.

I see what you're saying, but may I ask what regions are not facing retail oversaturation and is it because they are making smarter choices as a region or just because they are growing real fast?

Honestly, I can't speak to other regions or whether they spend more or less time on retail development then us.

 

I'm just trying to make the point that I feel like our local governments seem to be spending a lot of time & resource worrying about having the hottest retail attraction of the day (often inciting the need/desire for economic development).  From a resource allocation standpoint, I wish we had a more coordinated approach, so we wouldn't be spending as much time outdoing each other.  Instead, we could be more efficient and collectively spend our time & resource on more productive efforts, such as becoming more competitive as a region.

Agreed that we need to focus more on regional competiveness than on competing with each other.

Another tacky mall in a tacky neighborhood!  :roll:

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Solon is very popular, since 1960 it doubled in size,

 

And after it is built out, which it is near to, it will suffer the fates of all mature urban area communities. Already, Solon is being duplicated with more contemporary counterparts in Bainbridge, Auburn, Aurora, Twinsburg, and that's where those seeking status and tailor-made homes with the latest features will move. Unless Greater Cleveland starts growing in population again or if Solon can match what the next outer ring of communities offer (by demolishing or retrofitting its older housing stock), Solon will suffer the fate of the communities it replaced as the higher-income, family-friendly place to live. Too bad Solon will have to do this largely on its own.

I was going to say Euclid would have fit oengus1963's description in the 1960's or 70's culminating with the construction of Euclid Square Mall in 1976. It had new houses, a good industrial base and enough income to support a regional mall. Now its a member of the first suburbs consortium that is trying to revitalize Cleveland's inner-ring burbs.

 

KJP if Stark gets his way is he trying to make this mall more upscale than Beachwood or will it be Crockerpark East? How does he think this will affect his Downtown project? (If you know)

AMEN KJP!

 

I would think it would be more crockeresqe.  I mean people who live in psuedo mcmansions have no taste so I can't see a luxury retailer or department store moving out to solon.

 

I'm going out on a limb and saying Beachwood has a lock on that market and their next expansion or stores they court they will only up the ante.

 

I mean people who live in psuedo mcmansions have no taste so I can't see a luxury retailer or department store moving out to solon.

 

 

That post just makes you sound bitter. 

 

The thing with this development is people live in places like Solon for 2 reasons.  With 1 you're ok, but without either, you're in trouble.  The first is a great school system.  The second is lifestyle.  Right now Solon has the school system.  However, if you don't have kids, there is no reason to live there.  This would be a reason to live there (and if it's not a reason you would live in a city, no need for some "why would I want to live in suburbia; suburbunites are the devil" remak) and keep people there after they have become empty nesters.  Otherwise, yes, Solon could suffer the same fate as other East side suburbs like Euclid, Bedford, etc.  Although I don't see it quite getting that far; the city is designed specifically against that sort of collapse.  Besides, Auburn and Twinsburg are hardly Solon duplicates.  Parts of Bainbridge and Aurora are, but they were developed at the same time as Solon...in conjunction with, not as a replacement.

 

The bottom line is at some point, Solon is going to need to do something to keep it's middle and upper middle class living in Solon.  This sort of development would be a step towards accomplishing that.  So it could be good for Solon.  I'm not sure it would be good for the region.

"the city is designed specifically against that sort of collapse."

 

No city can be designed out of stupidity and incompetence. Solon is a bedroom community that is not near its employment centers, so when people need to drive 40 miles to work and gas is $5 a gallon, they are effed. Add in the fact that NEO's economy stinks in terms of wealth and job creation, and you have yourself a losing proposition.

 

I grew up in Cuyahoga Falls, and when I started school it was great but by the time I left it was falling apart. Just a year or so ago, the buttheads who run the district didn't account for their money correctly and all the sudden programs are getting cut left and right. My nephew is doing open enrollment in another district now. That to me is a sign that everything is all jacked up.

 

Personally, I don't see the Solon development as competition to downtown Cleveland. This is just my opinion but these people flooding the suburbs with retail are just going to shoot themselves in the foot and tank their own market. Beachwood is like 15 minutes away from Solon. What the hell do they need a lifestyle center for?

 

I mean people who live in pseudo mcmansions have no taste so I can't see a luxury retailer or department store moving out to Solon.

 

 

That post just makes you sound bitter. 

 

 

Bitter??  HA!  That was really funny!

 

Trust me, If I directly compared where I grew up in Shaker to ANY of that crap in Solon, I would have NO reason to be bitter.

 

Jamiec, that was a very good summary.  Hell if Cleveland Heights and Shaker Heights, two of our most prestigious suburbs with AMAZING housing and the HIGHEST property taxes, have to cut programs and close schools, why wouldn't this happen anywhere else?

I don't think NEO sucks in terms of wealth or job creation, its still a wealthy area. The jobs that are created are hidden because the number of manufacturing jobs lost eclipse those gains being made in healthcare, insurance and so on.

 

If things don't change Solon will begin to decline as well. As long as the mentality of "if its old throw it away" in terms of neighborhoods, homes and cities persist, today's Solon is tomorrow's Maple Heights, East Cleveland. The only thing I could see stopping this mentality is rising energy prices and the trend of returning to truly urban places.

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You seemed to have missed my point which was 30-45 years ago Euclid was in the same place Solon is in now. A strong Middle class, good schools, strong industrial base. Now look at it. Not neccesarilly the worst area, but stilll a shadow of its former self.

 

I think its funny how people in the Solon, Mentor, Westlake, and Strongsville belt of suburbs, think what happened and is happening to the inner ring 'burbs won't happen to them. As long as people keep chasing the next best new suburb and moving further and further out the downward trend of older neighborhoods will keep continuing.

 

I'm not saying its bad people choose to love out there, that's there decision, but just be prepared because with time your neghborhood IS going to change if current trends continue.

 

A Lifestyle center, while adding residential and office, is the same as a mall. How are these different from Severance, which has had office buildings and apartment towers surrounding it for years, plus many new condos being built around it as well?

Lifestyle centers are somewhat different from malls in general and Severance in particular. Severance is composed mainly of big-box retailers (Wal-Mart, Office Max, Marshalls). Severance does not offer dining options or restaurants. There is no park/green space at Severance. The office and residential components of Severance are not located directly on top of the retail. Lifestyle centers include more leisure amenities than malls and cater to an upscale market.

 

There is no sense of community or village atmosphere fostered by Severance. Severance is essentially a strip mall surrounded by large, bland apartment towers. The towers are certainly located within walking distance of the retail, but are not setup in a way to encourage one to wander down a couple flights of stairs and stroll around.

 

I do not believe that people will flee Solon, Mentor, Westlake for the next best new suburb as you assert. How many are presently leaving Solon for this reason? It would seem not many are. Further, I was under the impression that people flee their current suburbs more out of necessity (better schools when those in their neighborhoods are deteriorating or to escape rampant crime) than out of mere preference for more shopping options.

 

Lifestyle centers are somewhat different from malls in general and Severance in particular. Severance is composed mainly of big-box retailers (Wal-Mart, Office Max, Marshalls). Severance does not offer dining options or restaurants. There is no park/green space at Severance. The office and residential components of Severance are not located directly on top of the retail. Lifestyle centers include more leisure amenities than malls and cater to an upscale market.

 

There is no sense of community or village atmosphere fostered by Severance. Severance is essentially a strip mall surrounded by large, bland apartment towers. The towers are certainly located within walking distance of the retail, but are not setup in a way to encourage one to wander down a couple flights of stairs and stroll around.

 

I do not believe that people will flee Solon, Mentor, Westlake for the next best new suburb as you assert. How many are presently leaving Solon for this reason? It would seem not many are. Further, I was under the impression that people flee their current suburbs more out of necessity (better schools when those in their neighborhoods are deteriorating or to escape rampant crime) than out of mere preference for more shopping options.

 

 

When is the last time you've been to Severance?

I think its funny how people in the Solon, Mentor, Westlake, and Strongsville belt of suburbs, think what happened and is happening to the inner ring 'burbs won't happen to them. As long as people keep chasing the next best new suburb and moving further and further out the downward trend of older neighborhoods will keep continuing.

 

Bingo. When folks say "It couldn't happen to my suburb," and ask them to strip away the emotion and look at trends, public policies and other raw data. That's when they realize "It shouldn't happen to my suburb." But as long as public policies and public mindsets favor replacing communities instead of rebuilding them in a metro area that isn't growing in population, then you'll keep seeing communities fail within an ever-larger concentric circle from the region's geographic center.

 

I do not believe that people will flee Solon, Mentor, Westlake for the next best new suburb as you assert. How many are presently leaving Solon for this reason? It would seem not many are. Further, I was under the impression that people flee their current suburbs more out of necessity (better schools when those in their neighborhoods are deteriorating or to escape rampant crime) than out of mere preference for more shopping options.

 

Read Tom Bier's surveys as to why people move out of their homes. The most-often cited reasons aren't limited to crime, schools, worsening traffic/noise -- all falling under a change in neighborhood conditions. Some of the biggest reasons are due to a change in someone's personal life -- because of a change of job/income, change of marital status, and change of status with children (including kids moving out). And he found that a supermajority (something like 75-80 percent) of moves were made farther from the geographic center. In other words, if you lived in Chagrin Falls -- you moved to Novelty or Auburn, if you lived in Shaker Heights -- you moved to Solon or Chagrin Falls, if you lived in Cleveland -- you moved to Shaker Heights, Cleveland Heights or Maple Heights, etc.

 

Why?

 

Because people prefer not to buy used clothes, used appliances, used cars AND used homes. And since its the upper-middle and upper-class residents who live at the urban fringe, they typically are the ones pushing the fringes outwards. They prefer tailor-made homes and want the peace and quiet -- until we love the countryside to death.

 

Back to the Solon "Garden District" -- I believe this is the kind of development that's necessary to keep a fresh face on Solon's retail and housing stock. It's also necessary to provide some density to Solon as a walkable alternative to traffic.

 

When we moved to Highland Heights in 1966, there was virtually no traffic. When we moved in 1978, it was hard to make a left turn on to Ridgebury Boulevard. We arrived in rural Bainbridge and by the time we left in 1993, it was hard to make a left turn out on to Pettibone Road or Route 306. While my parents moved to Aurora, I went in the opposite direction -- to Berea and then to Lakewood's Gold Coast. I'm in an increasingly crowded lifeboat going in a different direction from the much larger, more popular ship. But lifeboats look very attractive when seemingly unsinkable ships spring a leak.

Lifestyle centers are somewhat different from malls in general and Severance in particular. Severance is composed mainly of big-box retailers (Wal-Mart, Office Max, Marshalls). Severance does not offer dining options or restaurants. There is no park/green space at Severance. The office and residential components of Severance are not located directly on top of the retail. Lifestyle centers include more leisure amenities than malls and cater to an upscale market.

 

There is no sense of community or village atmosphere fostered by Severance. Severance is essentially a strip mall surrounded by large, bland apartment towers. The towers are certainly located within walking distance of the retail, but are not setup in a way to encourage one to wander down a couple flights of stairs and stroll around.

 

I do not believe that people will flee Solon, Mentor, Westlake for the next best new suburb as you assert. How many are presently leaving Solon for this reason? It would seem not many are. Further, I was under the impression that people flee their current suburbs more out of necessity (better schools when those in their neighborhoods are deteriorating or to escape rampant crime) than out of mere preference for more shopping options.

 

 

All I have to say to that , and what KJP hinted on was people thought the same thing about Cleveland Heights, Parma, Euclid, Lake wood etc, etc.. Those were choice neighborhoods for the nouveau riche fleeing, then Cleveland. Then people fled to South Euclid, Bedford etc, then folks started buildign in the current growth belt, the Solons and Mentors. Twinsburg is already booming, and how soon will it be till Ravenna is building a new lifestyle center?

 

This really amazes me that people think that Solon will remain what it is today forever. As long as the throw away mentality continues , don't bet on it.

 

Also Severance hasn't always been a big box center. When it was built in 1963 or 65 it was what Beachwood mall is today, the upscale suburban shopping mall. I don't get how people can forget that.

I saw the Garden District display in the shopping center where the Solon Giant Eagle is and couldn't help but shake my head in disappointment. When will the market of lifestyle centers become oversaturated? Solon? Willoughby? North Royalton? That is way too much and there are too many shopping centers and malls in the area that are in a continuous decline.

 

 

All I have to say to that , and what KJP hinted on was people thought the same thing about Cleveland Heights, Parma, Euclid, Lake wood etc, etc.. Those were choice neighborhoods for the nouveau riche fleeing, then Cleveland. Then people fled to South Euclid, Bedford etc, then folks started buildign in the current growth belt, the Solons and Mentors. Twinsburg is already booming, and how soon will it be till Ravenna is building a new lifestyle center?

 

This really amazes me that people think that Solon will remain what it is today forever. As long as the throw away mentality continues , don't bet on it.

 

Also Severance hasn't always been a big box center. When it was built in 1963 or 65 it was what Beachwood mall is today, the upscale suburban shopping mall. I don't get how people can forget that.

 

I would second KJP's comments.  Note that both Euclid and East Cleveland provide a better comparison to Solon with their industrial bases.  Cleveland Heights and Shaker both lack much if any industry and suffer for it under the current school funding scheme.  I am constantly told to move out of the Heights and head for the lower taxes in Solon.  If the state changes the school funding scheme so that taxes are equivalent, Solon won't have that advantage.  But for those working in Solon, Solon will continue to be a better place to live.  The odds of my company moving to the Heights are slim to none. 

 

Despite its recent "improvement", Severance remains Cleveland Heights's best chance for further developments that will provide jobs for residents, as does the Van Aken area for Shaker.  Too bad Starks doesn't already have cranes in place in those areas -- he seems to have a good idea of what kind of development can help a city remain vibrant.

"I am constantly told to move out of the Heights and head for the lower taxes in Solon."

 

I'm sure plenty are told to make the move from any inner-ring area with higher taxes. However, what happens when so many people have followed to those low-tax areas? School enrollments, traffic congestion, utility usage goes up and so the demand for infrastructure and services goes up, and eventually the need for additional tax revenue. Then you see people fleeing to more remote rural areas with even lower taxes, but less services. Then you rinse, lather, repeat.

 

It wouldn't irk me so much, but I've met SO many people living in places like Solon, Avon, etc. who - after I explain the above scenario - act as though I've bestowed an epiphany upon them. If I had a dollar for every time I've heard "gee, I never thought of it that way", I'd be filthy rich.

.

"I am constantly told to move out of the Heights and head for the lower taxes in Solon."

 

I'm sure plenty are told to make the move from any inner-ring area with higher taxes. However, what happens when so many people have followed to those low-tax areas? School enrollments, traffic congestion, utility usage goes up and so the demand for infrastructure and services goes up, and eventually the need for additional tax revenue. Then you see people fleeing to more remote rural areas with even lower taxes, but less services. Then you rinse, lather, repeat.

 

It wouldn't irk me so much, but I've met SO many people living in places like Solon, Avon, etc. who - after I explain the above scenario - act as though I've bestowed an epiphany upon them. If I had a dollar for every time I've heard "gee, I never thought of it that way", I'd be filthy rich.

 

I agree with alot of what you say MayDay.  But the problem with alot of the inner ring suburbs, Parma Heights, Cleveland Heights, Brooklyn Heights, Garafield Heights, is that they are bedroom communities where the resident carries most of the tax burden due to little industry.  They were developed primarily in response of the exodus from Cleveland as quickly built suburbs giving people the option to live near the jobs in Cleveland (the fastest house ever built in the world was built in Parma).  Tak Solon now for instance, and the amount of Industry there is amazing for a town with their population (Stouffers, Nestle, Waste Management, Swagelok and everything else along Cochran/Harper to name a few).  Also, Strongsville has a ton of industry alon Foltz and Progress and Prospect.  As a resident of an inner ring burb, it is frustrationg that are taxes are so high, but alot of our ammenities seem so low.  My point, at least Solon and other burbs have industrial and commercial large tax bases coming in to meet the demands of a growing residential base.

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lord.............

Animosity? :wtf:

Animosity? :wtf:

 

Let it go Sweetie.  No matter how you explain it, some people refuse to accept the answer.  I work with someone like that and it’s exhausting.

 

BTW, Sugar, how the hell are you?  (Yes, I purposely went of topic!  :laugh: )

Let it go Sweetie.  No matter how you explain it, some people refuse to accept the answer.  I work with someone like that and it’s exhausting.

 

All you can do is let them go, and hope they remember you when your warning comes true. Sadly, they usually don't remember, else the same mistakes from the past 50 years wouldn't be repeated again and again. The residents of the latest peak suburbs think their communities are singularly immune. Obviously, they aren't, or the once-idyllic suburbs of yesteryear wouldn't have fallen in stature. How many more rings of the metro area will we sacrificed to the Next Great Suburb until we realize none are immune?

I say three... three licks to the center of Tootsie Roll Pop.

 

Huh?

 

Oh, never mind.

"the city is designed specifically against that sort of collapse."

 

No city can be designed out of stupidity and incompetence. Solon is a bedroom community that is not near its employment centers, so when people need to drive 40 miles to work and gas is $5 a gallon, they are effed. Add in the fact that NEO's economy stinks in terms of wealth and job creation, and you have yourself a losing proposition.

 

Well, that's not really true.  There's a substantial amount of industry in Solon - the city population triples during business hours.  Solon has become an East side industry center; many of the major employers listed in a previous post.  Plus there is easy access to other industrial parks on the East side with 422/271 being right there.  Most people aren't driving downtown who live in Solon; in fact most people live in Solon because they work in Solon or on the East side and want to live in a suburban environment.

 

 

All you can do is let them go, and hope they remember you when your warning comes true. Sadly, they usually don't remember, else the same mistakes from the past 50 years wouldn't be repeated again and again. The residents of the latest peak suburbs think their communities are singularly immune. Obviously, they aren't, or the once-idyllic suburbs of yesteryear wouldn't have fallen in stature. How many more rings of the metro area will we sacrificed to the Next Great Suburb until we realize none are immune?

 

I don't think the majority of people in Solon think they are immune to similar fates of other east side neighborhoods.  Afterall, many moved to Solon from those places and they have taken notice of the environment around them.  This is why this development is, or should, be important to those in Solon - it would be another reason to keep people there, improve property value, etc. 

 

Besides, just like "it can't happen in Solon" is short sighted, so is "it's inevitably going to happen in Solon" which is what you, and others, come off across as saying.  Solon has notable differences compared to many other formerly prosperous east side suburbs which, while those differences don't make the city immune, they will make the downfall of Solon, should it happen, be along a different path.

What planet am I on?

Besides, just like "it can't happen in Solon" is short sighted, so is "it's inevitably going to happen in Solon" which is what you, and others, come off across as saying.  Solon has notable differences compared to many other formerly prosperous east side suburbs which, while those differences don't make the city immune, they will make the downfall of Solon, should it happen, be along a different path.

 

I think you're right shs96.  For one thing, I suspect Solon has relatively few entry points for lower middle class residents, such as small lot houses and multi-family rentals [and I believe Stark's proposal would demo an apartment complex reducing this supply even further]; this is obviously a pretty different story from Cleveland neighborhoods and inner-ring 'burbs.  Unlike the West Side outer 'burbs, however, my impression is that Solon is increasingly racially integrated despite the economic barriers to entry.

Cleveland requires large amounts of housing that accommodates incomes that are not subsidized, that’s the issue that is not addressed. 

 

I'm not sure I follow this at all (or much of your post).  Cleveland faces many issues, but I don't believe lack of housing supply, any segment of housing supply, is one of them.  Unless you are presupposing that upper middle class housing is inherently outer-ring large lot, which is of course wrong as visits to any high-cost city can attest.  Similarly, in many US cities, outer ring burbs are less dense, but they sure don't have higher prices.

 

Also, one technical point: courtesy of the IRS, a typical Solon resident receives a much higher cash subsidy from the government for his or her housing than the typical Cleveland resident.  As a renter, I just had to get that off my chest.

people can argue the merits of Solon versus other communities all they want.  To me it is the oversaturation of retail in this region that continues to boggle my mind.  For example please note that the greater Pittsburgh area has 5 "retail centers"... Greater Cleveland has 14... and yet people continue to fight over where to build the new ones.  it is no wonder that retail in this area continues to fail. As long as we continue to treat it like restaurants (you know... trendy restaurant opens... people go... until the next trendy restaurant opens), it will never prosper.  I'm not a big "burgh" fan but it doesn't take a genius to figure out why pittsburgh shopping areas seem more dense and active.

I don't think it's that retail area's fail, it's moreso the residential areas fail.  People were fleeing out of areas such as North Randall and Warr Ht's and Maple because of what they saw was increasing crime stats...errrr rather they were racist morons.  It wasn't that they built new retail out there and people moved out there to be closer to retail, rather people moved out there and they built more retail out there to follow them.  That's all.  It's all very simple, it's just how do you convince people to move closer to the city.  In Cleveland, it's very difficult considering that attractive suburbs are relatively cheap to live in.  Why buy a house in Garafield Ht's for 140 when you can buy a house in Solon for 185.

As long as it is cheaper to build new rather than renovate/reuse/rehab an existing structure, sprawl will happen, unfortunately.

^Is it cheaper?  As others have pointed out, retail saturation will continue as long as lenders are willing to finance new construction...which in turn will continue as long as national chains are willing to sign leases in new construction.  Unfortunately, the environmental efficiency of reusing existing structures doesn't really figure into the equation.