That's great, I can't wait until we see similar transitions north of Liberty and throughout the rest of OTR. 

Isn't this a little gem of a thread, well worth the read.  Good bump Sherman.

Isn't this a little gem of a thread, well worth the read. Good bump Sherman.

QFT

 

Even though the change was anything but gradual, it's a bit difficult to remember just how different things were, just a few years ago. In 2006, there were no guarantees things would turn out as they did in 2009 (and beyond), but, boy, what progress there has been!

 

This brings to mind the "most dangerous neighborhood in America" distinction. That just might have been true, a few years ago. It's a shame the publishers went ahead, without recognizing the dramatic change.

 

This is encouraging stuff. Thanks for the bump.

Now all the drug traffic is on Republic, Race and Pleasant.  Whores moved to Elm.  Still a war zone over here.  It's actually worse as far as crime is concerned.  Dealers are closer to the addicts (the drop) and the police still pretty much do nothing.  You think the loitering on Vine was bad in the 90's take a stroll around Washington park today. 

 

I disagree with that assessment.  Crime has dropped all over OTR, from Central to Mulberry, from Broadway to Central Pkwy.  Murder rates for one are at its lowest levels in years.  The drug trade of Republic is way off of what it was prior to 3CDC.  The whores have always been on Elm, always have been bad on McMicken but developement has not reached that area yet.  It isn't that they have been pushed up there.  We have one double digit decline in part 1 and 2 crime month after month now going on year after year.  There is nothing but silver linings in this cloud of development that OTR is experiencing.

Part 1 and 2 crimes have been declining, as what Mr. Redmond stated, for several years and can be validated through the Cincinnati Police Department's web-site, where all of the handy statistics are located at --

 

http://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/police/pages/-4258-/

 

I don't know the specific numbers, but wasn't 12th and Vine one of the most dangerous intersections at one point only several years ago? Like, 500+ reports on that corner alone, dropping to 0 last year?

Places aren't inherently crime-ridden.  Crime is mobile and it can leave at what seems like a drop of the hat.  It happens in the reverse too.

and it generally flows in the path of least resistance.  All throughout OTR that is all that they are facing, not just with the police, but with eyes in the windows and people on the streets all of which provides for a very unsafe area for someone trying to commit a crime. 

and it generally flows in the path of least resistance. All throughout OTR that is all that they are facing, not just with the police, but with eyes in the windows and people on the streets all of which provides for a very unsafe area for someone trying to commit a crime.

Good way to put it MLR.  "OTR: Unsafe for crime"

unsafe for crime?

More cocaine flows on the streets of

this neighborhood than any other.  I hate it just as much as anyone else. 

I'm not trying to be negative.  Things have changed all over but in the past  2 weeks i've seen more whores in the neighborhood then in the 15 years I've been skateboarding around here.

Economy maybe?  Washington park is full o bums.  Crackheads ya know.

500 to 0? it doesn't make sense.  It is a silly statistic. 

There used to be a store on that corner, now there is an office? correct. 

so the police, police it now.

You know they patrol, enforce the law.  They jobs. 

And Republic is worse now.

Those low level dealers used to be right on Vine.  Where the heck do you think they went?   

They sure as hell didn't goto jail. 

Pleasant street, walk down Pleasant without getting offered Dog Food. 

Like i said the buildings on Vine Look great, you have two options for expensive furniture.

Condo's look amazing.  It no longer looks like Harlem in the 80's. 

The crime moved to where there are less people/development/police,  that is all.

I'm not complaining though.  Price Hill got it much worse when they tore down Lincoln Court or Laurel or whatever those jects where named. 

Like it or not OTR is still very much an area of concentrated poverty and lawlessness.

Is that changing, probably.  I sure hope so.  Not without the population going way up.  The reality on the ground is much different when compared to the 500 to 0 stat.

 

^Is this a haiku?

 

Are you having trouble with text formatting on the site? If so, I or someone else can help you.

and it generally flows in the path of least resistance.  All throughout OTR that is all that they are facing, not just with the police, but with eyes in the windows and people on the streets all of which provides for a very unsafe area for someone trying to commit a crime. 

Good way to put it MLR.  "OTR: Unsafe for crime"

This was me turning conventional wisdom on its head as things begin to change.  MLR made an astute observation.

 

gfi, I'm not arguing with the facts.  I hope for your sake it keeps getting [way] better.

^Is this a haiku?

 

Are you having trouble with text formatting on the site? If so, I or someone else can help you.

That is kind of funny.  I just pasted it from my console that i had accidentally typed it into.

This thread is only 3 pages but it goes back to the old days of 2005 so it's interesting to read.

 

So what is the plan for Over The Rhine nowadays? Is it to remain a low income area, be gentrified or some sort of mix?

 

Incidentally, I recently finished reading a book on the neighborhood, Changing Plans for Americans Cities, Cincinnati's Over-The-Rhine and Twentieth Century Urbanism, by Zane Miller and Bruce Tucker...the book ends in the 1980s, with an epilogue into the 1990s, before the riots. It seems the 1980s denoument was that OTR was going to stay a low-income housing area.

 

There is alot of discussion about someone called Buddy Gray. Jim Tarbell also figures in the book (there is a pix of Tarbell that is quite a shock given his current look...in the book Tarbell sandals, vest, and a long thick beard).

 

 

 

^I just read this book as well. I found it online and read it that way.

 

The whole book: https://kb.osu.edu/dspace/bitstream/1811/29305/1/CHANGING_PLANS_FOR_AMERICAS_INNER_CITIES.pdf

 

and described: http://www.ohiostatepress.org/Books/Book%20Pages/Miller%20Changing.htm

 

and broken down by chapter: http://www.ohiostatepress.org/books/Complete%20PDFs/Miller%20Changing/Miller%20Changing.htm

500 to 0? it doesn't make sense. It is a silly statistic.

Not a silly stat at all. This points to what I said above, development combined with policing is what makes for an inhospitable environment for those looking to engage in criminal activity. Boarded up buildings and empty alley ways void of any person who would ever give information to the police, let alone call something in or stop it, made for the perfect cover for these criminals. That situation has changed and we went from 500 to 4 to 0 year over year. That is progress, not silliness.

 

And Republic is worse now.

Republic was, just a few short years ago, the most dangerous street in OTR. If a shooting or murder happened it was most likely Republic, second Vine, third Green. Now we have a sold out building at 12th and Republic at Mottainai. Plus Dan MacDonald is now property manager over all of Models buildings and strictly enforces residency requirements which typically takes care of issues before it becomes a policing matter. Republic is also flanked by the development of 3CDC on its east side that puts additional pressure on those wishing to stay in the shadows. When was the last murder on Republic?

 

Those low level dealers used to be right on Vine. Where the heck do you think they went?

They sure as hell didn't goto jail.

In fact many did. When Vortex initially came in, they helped brake the back of the open air drug trade on Vine St. Others did move but few within OTR. Avondale and even the West Side has seen a spike overall in crime relative to OTR but this is due to a more complex issue than condo developement.

 

Price Hill got it much worse when they tore down Lincoln Court or Laurel or whatever those projects where named.

I will not speak for Price Hill, but Laurel Homes however was in the West End and is now City West. Did the crime rate in the West End go up after the tearing down of Laurel Homes? Absolutely not. Nor has the crime rate done anything but drop in OTR after the beginning of the development by 3CDC. The numbers just do not support your arguments nor does any objective analysis of the realities on the ground here in OTR lend to anything but vast improvement on all fronts.

 

The reality on the ground is much different when compared to the 500 to 0 stat.

I am on the ground...right now. My wife sits everyday at that corner of Vine in that very office, she is there this very minute. We live on Mulberry Street. We own Neons just off Main Street. I co-captain the Mulberry/Mcmicken/Main Street Safety Sector and one of our partners, Dan MacDonald, co-captains the Washington Park Partners (Safety Sector). We see daily those realities and are aware of the progress that still is to be made as well as mindful of the progress that has been done. We have perspective that goes back years and information that helps us look years forward.

Be proud of OTR's progress. We know we are not yet where we ultimately want to be, but we are still way ahead of where we ever thought we would be by this point. Just look back at the frustration of those earlier in this thread. If someone would have told them that future would look like it does today, no one would have believed them...including me.

I am proud of the progress.  I loosely count the whores, chronic loiterers, and what i perceive as drug offers around Findlay Market almost everyday.  They are far from declining and as of very recently prostitution seems to be dramatically increasing.  Even the police will tell you there are more whores on Mcmicken today then in the past five years.  Why? i don't know.

 

The reality on the ground is much different when compared to the 500 to 0 stat.

I am on the ground...right now.  My wife sits everyday at that corner of Vine in that very office, she is there this very minute.  We live on Mulberry Street.  We own Neons just off Main Street.  I co-captain the Mulberry/Mcmicken/Main Street Safety Sector and one of our partners, Dan MacDonald, co-captains the Washington Park Partners (Safety Sector).  We see daily those realities and are aware of the progress that still is to be made as well as mindful of the progress that has been done.  We have perspective that goes back years and information that helps us look years forward. 

Be proud of OTR's progress.  We know we are not yet where we ultimately want to be, but we are still way ahead of where we ever thought we would be by this point.  Just look back at the frustration of those earlier in this thread.  If someone would have told them that future would look like it does today, no one would have believed them...including me.

Bravo.  This is how neighborhoods make a comeback.

 

Even the police will tell you there are more whores on Mcmicken then in the past five years.  It is because of the developments in The Gateway.  That is my only point.  I don't like it.  I plan on raising my kids down here.  So yeah there might not be crack whores over in front of the segway shop, they didn't dissapear.    

Vine and McMicken isn't Vine and 12th...yet

 

Where do you think they'll go when McMicken gets to the level of the Gateway Quarter?  Certainly not back to the Gateway Quarter.

 

THIS is how neighborhoods turnaround, and OTR is so big it will take time but until then don't let the perfect ruin the good.