Clinics Neurological Institute Building on this Friday's Planning Commission agenda for schematic review.

1 hour ago, Htsguy said:

Clinics Neurological Institute Building on this Friday's Planning Commission agenda for schematic review.

 

Yep. Looking forward to seeing the details.

 

EDIT: Got it. Will be sharing on the blog shortly.

 

First look at Cleveland Clinic’s largest-ever building

By Ken Prendergast / October 18, 2022

 

In several days, the City Planning Commission’s Design Review Committee will get its first chance to offer its opinion on the design of what will be the Cleveland Clinic’s largest-ever building. The facility will be the new home of the Clinic’s Neurological Institute — a 1-million-square-foot structure that will tower over Carnegie Avenue, between East 89th and 90th streets. It is the current site of the eight-story P Building surgery center that is now being demolished.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blog/2022/10/18/first-look-at-cleveland-clinics-largest-ever-building/

It is definitely an improvement in the area, and has a nice-for-the-Clinic ground floor presence. Here is the full presentation and the northern view and site plan.

 

https://assets.adobe.com/public/7be50be8-b751-444b-5950-66f1d139ef81/Euclid Corridor DR/2022_10-02 CCNI - Planning Comm_Design Review.pdf

 

 

1.  It's great to see another big investment in the city by the Clinic.

2. The siting of the building near the sidewalks is a huge improvement over the suburban style of buildings like the Health Education Campus.  

3.  I still wish the Clinic allowed for more lively street-level uses of their buildings, like restaurants and retail.  There's really no reason to walk the sidewalks around any Clinic building.  

4.  On the aesthetics of this building, I'm not a fan of the "blanched" look, like all color was drained from the facade.  I thought Cesar Pelli did so many great buildings for the Clinic that combined modernism with a mix of colors and materials.  

Edited October 18, 20222 yr by ryanfrazier

@ryanfrazier- I agree with you.  Great to see the large investment in the city and what really matters is the large number of people that will now perform life-saving work within it.  Bravo.

 

 From a design perspective-  particularly color-wise - could they have made a more depressing  and impersonal (ironically) looking building?  I hope the design committee pushes back on that.  Just my two cents. 

Edited October 18, 20222 yr by CleveFan

Yeah, it’s incredibly ugly and bulky. Probably best that they hide it in that location. Great investment, but who looked at this and got excited? It’s really horrendous.  Is glassy brutalism a thing? 

Edited October 19, 20222 yr by marty15

12 minutes ago, marty15 said:

Yeah, it’s incredibly ugly and bulky. Probably best that they hide it in that location. Great investment, but who looked at this and got excited? It’s really horrendous.  Is glassy brutalism a thing? 

 

Depends. Do words still mean things?

It's better than the Glickman tower, which looks like it should be an airport hotel somewhere...

This will definitely depend on how reflective the glass is in real life. The renderings don't do it justice with the color. I don't hate the design for what it is, a hospital building. 

Edited October 19, 20222 yr by KFM44107

16 minutes ago, KFM44107 said:

This will definitely depend on how reflective the glass is in real life. The renderings don't do it justice with the color. I don't hate the design for what it is, a hospital building. 

I also believe these are poor quality renderings.

i think it looks great considering there is nothing you can do about the umm, functional bulky that hospitals need.

 

its certainly not an eyesore design, which it easily could be. its clean and modern looking in a way that i think will age well. 

I don't understand why people think it's a disappointing design. It meets or beats my expectations. It will be one of the nicest buildings on the Clinic's campus, and it replaces one of the ugliest buildings on the Clinic's campus.

 

And in any event, it's not like the building fronts on Wade Lagoon. This will be pretty well enveloped in the Clinic bunker. Basically the only people who have to look at it are patients, doctors, and whoever drives by on Carnegie.

 

But the best thing about this project and the other ones in the pipeline is that the Clinic is serious and all of this stuff is likely to get built and the jobs created even if we have a major recession. Healthcare is fairly recession proof and even when economic disaster strikes, it will take out the little guy (i.e. what few independent hospitals are left) and help big fish like the Clinic.

These boards always will have people complain about something.  I still remember people complaining from the Hilton being a glass structure and not fitting in with other downtown buildings, parking garage designs, the Nucleus design, to benches.  This is a hospital structure.  It's not going to have storefronts and flashy lights.  Most people aren't expected to hang out after hours to view shiny lights at hospitals either (nor should they).  The design in fine.  It's a glass structure.  It could've ended up looking like the Justice Center/Courthouse downtown.  No one would want that.  Right?

4 minutes ago, superior said:

These boards always will have people complain about something.  I still remember people complaining from the Hilton being a glass structure and not fitting in with other downtown buildings, parking garage designs, the Nucleus design, to benches.  This is a hospital structure.  It's not going to have storefronts and flashy lights.  Most people aren't expected to hang out after hours to view shiny lights at hospitals either (nor should they).  The design in fine.  It's a glass structure.  It could've ended up looking like the Justice Center/Courthouse downtown.  No one would want that.  Right?

I thought the reason to have a forum such as this is for people to offer their opinions, whether positive or negative, in order to foster discussion.  You call it complaining, others would call it design critique.

This city has enough brick/concrete facades. Let the era of shiny new glass continue!! 😆. But for real it's nice to have a variety of building looks in a city.

2 minutes ago, Htsguy said:

I thought the reason to have a forum such as this is for people to offer their opinions, whether positive or negative, in order to foster discussion.  You call it complaining, others would call it design critique.

Critiquing is different from complaining.  When individuals speak about how poorly, ugly or horrible of a design something is, as well as saying that "x" company should've thought about connecting with this or that- that's complaining.  Critiquing is attempting to add value to that project (I'm not speaking of the individuals who do that).

Cleveland Clinic's buildings do have retail and restaurants in them. But they're well inside the interior shell of the building so if you're walking by on the streets you don't know they're there. Contrast that with Mayo Clinic's design which has numerous buildings with a wide variety of retailers along their sidewalks. Not only can it be done, it should be done.

 

But I guess this building is a step forward in the right direction, compared to how nearby buildings were designed in the recent past. Look at the Walker Center which was originally proposed to be built with walls around it due to "security concerns" and instead they decided to go with large grassy areas between the building and sidewalk. Unfortunately that design continued for the next three or four decades in other projects. The Cole Eye Institute was arguably the worst, so the design of the Cole expansion building is a small step forward. Too bad the expansion wasn't built between the existing building and Euclid.

 

EDIT: it's like Cleveland Clinic buildings have an exoskeleton while the Mayo Clinic has an endoskeleton. It's time to stop being afraid of the surrounding neighborhoods and instead become a part of them.

^ Blame the Walker Center on the state of Ohio Industrial Commission (worker's comp) failed plan for housing injured workers in centralized hospitals... see also the lovely Martha Morehouse Medical Plaza at OSU which is another of the former BWC centers (then known as the J. Leonard Camera Center).

 

 

 

Edited October 19, 20222 yr by buckeye1

Yep, but unfortunately the "fear factor" design was echoed in more than just the Walker Center. 

Beat me to the punch Ken. I was reading through the comments and wanted to say that how Mayo has designed its campus over the years is something that appeals to urbanists. It looks something like a walkable town rather than a corporate entity. Look no further than University Hospitals. Their whole campus is inviting while the Clinic is not. It's a vibe based on design. It can be done if the leaders cared about it. Different cultures create different buildings. 

 

As for this addition to the Clinic, I don't hate it. I like the glass especially. It is bulky as hell but...whatever. My biggest complaint is the location. Visually it would have a much greater impact if it were on Euclid. Located where it is on Carnegie I think even being as large as it is it will somehow be swallowed up by its surroundings. 

 

But we have to remember that design is not just about form but also function. While it may look better in a more prominent location it probably functions better in the Carnegie location. Right next to a humongous garage and more integrated with the other core buildings. The most recent Clinic addition on Euclid looks fine IMO but it doesn't really integrate all that well with the other buildings. 

 

All in all I have to view what the Clinic brings to the city in a very positive light. Could they do a better job from a design perspective? Of course but as one who remembers decades of disinvestment in Cleveland I'm happy to see investment. It's like the debate about SHW and those benches. In a perfect world we would get everything we want but it's not a perfect world. 

1 hour ago, superior said:

Critiquing is different from complaining.  When individuals speak about how poorly, ugly or horrible of a design something is, as well as saying that "x" company should've thought about connecting with this or that- that's complaining.  Critiquing is attempting to add value to that project (I'm not speaking of the individuals who do that).

Please  stop complaining about people offering their opinions in not just the exact way that you think they should articulate them. Geez.
 
If you can’t offer an on- topic opinion about a buildings design one time on this forum - then what fun is it?  This is a forum, right? 

Ok one person likes it and someone else thinks it looks colorless and uninspiring, unworthy of the world-class aspirations of the Cleveland Clinic .  We all have the right to express our opinions once and then move on. 

https://newsroom.ibm.com/2022-10-18-Cleveland-Clinic-and-IBM-Begin-Installation-of-IBM-Quantum-System-One

 

YO YO YO, IT'S MY FAVORITE DEVELOPMENT BACK IN THE NEWS AGAIN

1 minute ago, LlamaLawyer said:

https://newsroom.ibm.com/2022-10-18-Cleveland-Clinic-and-IBM-Begin-Installation-of-IBM-Quantum-System-One

 

YO YO YO, IT'S MY FAVORITE DEVELOPMENT BACK IN THE NEWS AGAIN

 

 

1 hour ago, cadmen said:

My biggest complaint is the location. Visually it would have a much greater impact if it were on Euclid. Located where it is on Carnegie I think even being as large as it is it will somehow be swallowed up by its surroundings. 

 

But we have to remember that design is not just about form but also function. While it may look better in a more prominent location it probably functions better in the Carnegie location. 

 

 

Euclid Frontage could cause issues with Cleveland's Pedestrian Retail Overlay (PRO) requirements and the new building is in an "K" area district which means the maximum gross floor area can be built upto 6 times the lot area. Some adjacent lots are zoned less dense and may require variances and may go against long term planning by the city. Both sides of euclid east of 86th allow up to 250' tall buildings, but west of 86th steps down to 175'. Based on the square footage the Neurology department probably wanted you'd end up with an even bulkier mass on Euclid.  The PRO concerns also may apply for Cole Eye expansion choosing to eliminate surface lot versus greenspace mentioned above and  Bibb's desire for more Greenspace visible from Euclid. 

Edited October 19, 20222 yr by MrR

The Cole Eye expansion began in the summer, correct? I just read the expected completion date is late 2025. Does that seem like an extremely long time to build a four-story, 150,000 sq. ft. structure? Unless maybe hospital buildings have more hurdles than the larger skyscrapers that go up in less time.

8 minutes ago, MrR said:

The PRO concerns also may apply for Cole Eye expansion choosing to eliminate surface lot versus greenspace mentioned above and  Bibb's desire for more Greenspace visible from Euclid. 

 

Isn't Euclid Avenue the main drag of Cleveland? Why would Bibb want more greenspace on it vs. more commercial activity? Is this why people say he doesn't really get things?

@MrRTo my untrained eye, it looks like they are building a box in the middle of the lunch room.  😏

2 hours ago, CleveFan said:

Please  stop complaining about people offering their opinions in not just the exact way that you think they should articulate them. Geez.
 
If you can’t offer an on- topic opinion about a buildings design one time on this forum - then what fun is it?  This is a forum, right? 

Ok one person likes it and someone else thinks it looks colorless and uninspiring, unworthy of the world-class aspirations of the Cleveland Clinic .  We all have the right to express our opinions once and then move on. 

 

And I expressed mine.  I offer you this hug...  Have a wonderful day.

1 hour ago, GREGinPARMA said:

The Cole Eye expansion began in the summer, correct? I just read the expected completion date is late 2025. Does that seem like an extremely long time to build a four-story, 150,000 sq. ft. structure? Unless maybe hospital buildings have more hurdles than the larger skyscrapers that go up in less time.

 

The ceremonial groundbreaking was last May but actual construction hasn't started yet. Some utilities have to be relocated first and that hasn't started yet either. Completion of the expansion should take about two years, completing in Spring 2024. Renovation of the two-decade-old Cole Eye Institute fronting Euclid will follow and be completed in winter 2025. I referenced this fine publication for that info....  😎

https://neo-trans.blog/2022/08/26/cleveland-clinics-big-projects-are-on-the-move/

2 hours ago, GREGinPARMA said:

The Cole Eye expansion began in the summer, correct? I just read the expected completion date is late 2025. Does that seem like an extremely long time to build a four-story, 150,000 sq. ft. structure? Unless maybe hospital buildings have more hurdles than the larger skyscrapers that go up in less time.

I'm not an expert in this, but I would guess the electrical/networking/HVAC. etc for a hospital /medical building is much more complex than it would be for an office building

would be cooler if it was half or 1/3 as bulky and 2 or 3 times as tall. Would be cool to see things starting to get vertical in this part of town.

And yet, even when employing hospital-sized floorplates, it will still be the Cleveland Clinic's tallest building.

13 hours ago, jcw92 said:

would be cooler if it was half or 1/3 as bulky and 2 or 3 times as tall. Would be cool to see things starting to get vertical in this part of town.

 

 

the only way to get tall is for the clinic to be a larger training hospital, so they can have classrooms and offices.

 

i was just in montreal and dont have the thread ready yet, but here is a preview with an example i saw up there (chum, b. 2010-19).

basically they combined older hospitals with a college into an urban medical super campus.

 

 

 

i suppose you could also get tall with mixed use type buildings for medical businesses, hotel and the like.

 

otherwise, not sure how basic hospital needs would want too tall, especially with the big clinic campus space they have to spread out.

I read somewhere that Cleveland Clinic wanted to go taller but the Fairfax residents were against it.


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I always wished CCF would have built / remodeled a building downtown.  Moved their offices from Beachwood and other surrounding cities to a large downtown building.  Maybe one day ...

5 hours ago, dar124 said:

I always wished CCF would have built / remodeled a building downtown.  Moved their offices from Beachwood and other surrounding cities to a large downtown building.  Maybe one day ...

The offices in Beachwood are literally their to serve car oriented and devoted suburbanites who want nothing to do with downtown. CCF continues to buy up land to convert to surface lots. There is no chance in hell CCF would set something up downtown. They are a suburban clientele focused entity located in an inner city neighborhood. 

Demolition on Carnegie....   

More demo, out with the old.

 

And more demo

 

 

It's always sad when these old buildings can't be preserved. But I'll take the jobs over the buildings.

3 hours ago, KJP said:

And more demo

 

 

Any way they can take the “Pho Viet Grill” with it?

2 hours ago, Sapper Daddy said:

Any way they can take the “Pho Viet Grill” with it?

Given its "history" as a movie set, and not a restaurant, it should be called the *Faux Viet Grill."

 

Cleveland Clinic sees a busy 2023

By Ken Prendergast / December 29, 2022

 

For several years, NEOtrans has been following the emergence, planning and development of major projects at the Cleveland Clinic Foundation’s Main Campus on the city’s East Side. In 2023, shovels will go into the ground for several of those projects which, in total, will rival the global health system’s last big building boom that occurred about 15 years ago. NEOtrans interviewed two of Cleveland Clinic’s leaders to learn more about the Clinic’s $1.3 billion construction program.

 

MORE: 

https://neo-trans.blog/2022/12/29/cleveland-clinic-sees-a-busy-2023/

^ Great article.

 

My wife had an appointment this morning at the Cole Eye Institute…and just sent this to me:

 

 

^ Great article.
 
My wife had an appointment this morning at the Cole Eye Institute…and just sent this to me:
 
 

Was just about to post this lol

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Cleveland Clinic began its destruction of the Cleveland Playhouse. Photo thread here:  https://www.cleveland.com/news/2023/01/cleveland-clinic-begins-demolition-of-cleveland-play-house-complex-photos.html

 

If they had an immediate plan to build something great here, it'd be one thing, but that's probably not the case. Hopefully it won't sit as a gravel parking lot for ten years until the clinic puts up some more neighborhood-hostile buildings. If the Clinic desired, this giant piece of land is an opportunity to create something truly nice--like apartment buildings and some hospital buildings with street-level retail below and with no setbacks. Take a page from competitor Mayo Clinic. They've created a nice, walkable neighborhood, with street life.

 

On 1/17/2023 at 8:53 PM, ProspectAve said:

Cleveland Clinic began its destruction of the Cleveland Playhouse. Photo thread here:  https://www.cleveland.com/news/2023/01/cleveland-clinic-begins-demolition-of-cleveland-play-house-complex-photos.html

 

Gave me a nice excuse to do some exploring last night (please be mindful sharing these):

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well, that's a downer. Can't wait to see the new parking lot in 3 months.

This is where Neurological is going, correct?