8 minutes ago, Jenny said:

This is where Neurological is going, correct?

 

IIRC it's to be a construction staging area for neurological.

Wow that’s like a location straight out of those ghost hunting shows, thanks for sharing @GISguy.  
 

@TBideon I wouldn’t get too hung up on the parking lot.  CCF developments are currently going from idea phase to brick and mortar faster than anywhere in the city.

28 minutes ago, Sapper Daddy said:

Wow that’s like a location straight out of those ghost hunting shows, thanks for sharing @GISguy.  
 

@TBideon I wouldn’t get too hung up on the parking lot.  CCF developments are currently going from idea phase to brick and mortar faster than anywhere in the city.

I would imagine we'd see another Fairfax Market type development on this lot. CCF is growing fast and they probably want to be in control of residential development to ensure housing stock can keep up with their own demand. 

No.

1 hour ago, McLovin said:

I would imagine we'd see another Fairfax Market type development on this lot. CCF is growing fast and they probably want to be in control of residential development to ensure housing stock can keep up with their own demand. 

 

See my last article on the Clinic: https://neo-trans.blog/2022/12/29/cleveland-clinic-sees-a-busy-2023/

I also wrote this piece about the property's potential future: https://neo-trans.blog/2022/09/18/the-future-of-the-cleveland-play-house-site/

 

While the Clinic doesn't have a formal plan yet for this lot, it's big enough that it can do many things here -- new housing, new police station, new steam plant, big parking deck, etc. And that's not necessarily a list of choices. Its considering putting all of those uses on this lot and would still have room left over for more

 

To put it into perspective, the Fairfax Market property is just under 3 acres. Or the Circle Square development is 6 acres.

 

The ex-Cleveland Play House site is 11.3 acres and could grow to 11.8 acres after Mr. Henderson Nevada, age 77, stops trying to get his big payday from the Clinic from selling his property, once the site of a ghetto grocer.

 

So it has the potential to be four times the size of the Fairfax Market development. Or twice the size of Circle Square.

44 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

See my last article on the Clinic: https://neo-trans.blog/2022/12/29/cleveland-clinic-sees-a-busy-2023/

I also wrote this piece about the property's potential future: https://neo-trans.blog/2022/09/18/the-future-of-the-cleveland-play-house-site/

 

While the Clinic doesn't have a formal plan yet for this lot, it's big enough that it can do many things here -- new housing, new police station, new steam plant, big parking deck, etc. And that's not necessarily a list of choices. Its considering putting all of those uses on this lot and would still have room left over for more

 

To put it into perspective, the Fairfax Market property is just under 3 acres. Or the Circle Square development is 6 acres.

 

The ex-Cleveland Play House site is 11.3 acres and could grow to 11.8 acres after Mr. Henderson Nevada, age 77, stops trying to get his big payday from the Clinic from selling his property, once the site of a ghetto grocer.

 

So it has the potential to be four times the size of the Fairfax Market development. Or twice the size of Circle Square.

 

Half an acre, adjacent to the Clinic?   Why shouldn't he hold out for what the market will bear?   Is this Rumi's?

36 minutes ago, E Rocc said:

 

Half an acre, adjacent to the Clinic?   Why shouldn't he hold out for what the market will bear?   Is this Rumi's?

 

This is a small patch of grass at 8400 Euclid. There was a ghetto grocery store here until about 2007 when it was demolished for a wider Euclid Ave to accommodate the HealthLine. RTA had to go to eminent domain to get a small sliver of land for about $19,600 from the owner of 8400 Euclid LLC, Si Elias Harb. He wanted RTA to buy the whole half-acre but RTA refused. So he's still stuck with a piece of land that he thinks is going to make him rich. Instead, his trust's attorney and *maybe* his family is probably going to get paid after he dies and his estate is dissolved.

 

So for there to be a market, there has to be a transaction. For there to be a transaction, there has to be a mutual agreement between a seller and a buyer. If a seller wants much more money than what one of the most deep-pocketed organizations in the city is willing to pay, then there is no mutual agreement, no transaction, no market. Just one side who is halting commerce and public benefits from occurring. This city is filled with property owners who are waiting for the good times to return, not realizing they are the ones who are preventing it from happening by sitting on neglected properties because they somehow believe if they can wait and live just a little longer, they can get that big payday.

21 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

This is a small patch of grass at 8400 Euclid. There was a ghetto grocery store here until about 2007 when it was demolished for a wider Euclid Ave to accommodate the HealthLine. RTA had to go to eminent domain to get a small sliver of land for about $19,600 from the owner of 8400 Euclid LLC, Si Elias Harb. He wanted RTA to buy the whole half-acre but RTA refused. So he's still stuck with a piece of land that he thinks is going to make him rich. Instead, his trust's attorney and *maybe* his family is probably going to get paid after he dies and his estate is dissolved.

 

So for there to be a market, there has to be a transaction. For there to be a transaction, there has to be a mutual agreement between a seller and a buyer. If a seller wants much more money than what one of the most deep-pocketed organizations in the city is willing to pay, then there is no mutual agreement, no transaction, no market. Just one side who is halting commerce and public benefits from occurring. This city is filled with property owners who are waiting for the good times to return, not realizing they are the ones who are preventing it from happening by sitting on neglected properties because they somehow believe if they can wait and live just a little longer, they can get that big payday.

Is this the parcel that had a "Build to Suite" sign?

2 minutes ago, freefourur said:

Is this the parcel that had a "Build to Suite" sign?

 

I don't remember.

10 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

I don't remember.

I'm pretty sure that i remember the store though. It was something like Eagle Market. 

16 minutes ago, freefourur said:

I'm pretty sure that i remember the store though. It was something like Eagle Market. 

 

Yep, you can see it in 2007 streetview.

19 hours ago, KJP said:

 

See my last article on the Clinic: https://neo-trans.blog/2022/12/29/cleveland-clinic-sees-a-busy-2023/

I also wrote this piece about the property's potential future: https://neo-trans.blog/2022/09/18/the-future-of-the-cleveland-play-house-site/

 

While the Clinic doesn't have a formal plan yet for this lot, it's big enough that it can do many things here -- new housing, new police station, new steam plant, big parking deck, etc. And that's not necessarily a list of choices. Its considering putting all of those uses on this lot and would still have room left over for more

 

To put it into perspective, the Fairfax Market property is just under 3 acres. Or the Circle Square development is 6 acres.

 

The ex-Cleveland Play House site is 11.3 acres and could grow to 11.8 acres after Mr. Henderson Nevada, age 77, stops trying to get his big payday from the Clinic from selling his property, once the site of a ghetto grocer.

 

So it has the potential to be four times the size of the Fairfax Market development. Or twice the size of Circle Square.

 

I read this yesterday, and then after seeing the GE news this morning I had a thought.... bear with me as its a raw/fresh idea I haven't fully hashed out, but I'm sure you all can clear it up or bury it.... here it is...

 

What if the Clinic used these 12ish acers to build a Medical Tech/R&D hub, and then partnered with Canon Medical Research and GE Health.... and by partnering I mean bringing both HQ's to Cleveland and they'd each have a building on the campus.  With the major healthcare companies we have, along with Case and CSU's medical side taking off, it could be a great location. WE already know the Clinic is working with Cannon, and also the CEO of the Clinic is on the board of GE-Health... so it is a possibility.

 

I guess the only flaw in the plan that comes to mind as I type could be, and this would be a big flaw, is if Cannon and GE are rivals and wouldn't want to work together. However, if it were the situation, the overall idea I think could work.... The Clinic could partner with one and draw the HQ here, start a Medical Tech/R&D campus that would be unlike any I'm aware of in the country. Imagine it; a campus inside a major city, housing a major health research company, partnering with one of the top hospitals in the world(Clinic) and maybe two other highly rated(UH and Metro), all working with two strong University's in Case and CSU to develop health tech all in one campus. I don't know if something like that exists as of right now. OH, and they'd have access to a quantum computer. 

 

If something like this were to happen it would require a lot of buildings, therefore filling up that lot. It would also bring a lot of people and activity to that area, and probably a lot of spinoff development as well. It's between to main city roads and kind of brings three neighborhoods together (UC/Fairfax/Midtown)... could be a game changer.

 

Again, this is just off the top of my head so I may be way off base, I've done no research. But I'd like for ya'll to tell me your thoughts, where it has holes and also how it could work.

 

P.S. Please forgive the spelling and grammar errors, I'm typing it while multitasking on a call.

 

P.S.S.  Mods: If this is the wrong thread please forgive and move to the appropriate location. 

It's going to be several years before construction on the Neuro building is done. Therefore it's going to be several years before the former Play House site is developable. Canon seems to want to move forward a lot sooner than that. And yes, Canon is a competitor to GE.

NR, you are singing my song. I'm a retired Clinic researcher. Over the course of my career l have watched local medical research grow exponentially and l have had the privilege of working with other large medical research facilities around the country. In that time l have seen what happens when a region is able to galvanize local and state politicians, business leaders and medical establishments to create something from virtually nothing. Research Triangle is a perfect example. What was once smallish independent hospitals have turned into behemoths by working together to leverage research dollars to entice medical reserve companies to locate in a small footprint. 

 

We are already doing something like that here but if we could somehow manage to get all parties to grow in the same direction we could be so much more. The bones are in place now. All we need is the focus and leadership to become so much more. I've seen the benefits and they can be spectacular. 

1 hour ago, NR said:

 

I read this yesterday, and then after seeing the GE news this morning I had a thought.... bear with me as its a raw/fresh idea I haven't fully hashed out, but I'm sure you all can clear it up or bury it.... here it is...

 

What if the Clinic used these 12ish acers to build a Medical Tech/R&D hub, and then partnered with Canon Medical Research and GE Health....

 

GE Healthcare recently chose Chicago for their corporate headquarters.  They should have picked Milwaukee, their long-time divisional headquarters, but they didn't.

9 hours ago, NR said:

 

I read this yesterday, and then after seeing the GE news this morning I had a thought.... bear with me as its a raw/fresh idea I haven't fully hashed out, but I'm sure you all can clear it up or bury it.... here it is...

 

What if the Clinic used these 12ish acers to build a Medical Tech/R&D hub, and then partnered with Canon Medical Research and GE Health.... and by partnering I mean bringing both HQ's to Cleveland and they'd each have a building on the campus.  With the major healthcare companies we have, along with Case and CSU's medical side taking off, it could be a great location. WE already know the Clinic is working with Cannon, and also the CEO of the Clinic is on the board of GE-Health... so it is a possibility.

 

I guess the only flaw in the plan that comes to mind as I type could be, and this would be a big flaw, is if Cannon and GE are rivals and wouldn't want to work together. However, if it were the situation, the overall idea I think could work.... The Clinic could partner with one and draw the HQ here, start a Medical Tech/R&D campus that would be unlike any I'm aware of in the country. Imagine it; a campus inside a major city, housing a major health research company, partnering with one of the top hospitals in the world(Clinic) and maybe two other highly rated(UH and Metro), all working with two strong University's in Case and CSU to develop health tech all in one campus. I don't know if something like that exists as of right now. OH, and they'd have access to a quantum computer. 

 

If something like this were to happen it would require a lot of buildings, therefore filling up that lot. It would also bring a lot of people and activity to that area, and probably a lot of spinoff development as well. It's between to main city roads and kind of brings three neighborhoods together (UC/Fairfax/Midtown)... could be a game changer.

 

Again, this is just off the top of my head so I may be way off base, I've done no research. But I'd like for ya'll to tell me your thoughts, where it has holes and also how it could work.

 

P.S. Please forgive the spelling and grammar errors, I'm typing it while multitasking on a call.

 

P.S.S.  Mods: If this is the wrong thread please forgive and move to the appropriate location. 

 

Love the idea - it plays to the Clinic's strength of being more of a commercial real estate company than high-quality health care provider. 

 

Edited January 21, 20232 yr by ASP1984

I would sort of doubt GE Healthcare is going to leave Chicago, where they just recently put down roots. I do think the idea of a medtech/R&D hub is a good one though. There are LOTS of other big players in this field, it's not just GE and Canon.

Cole Eye Institute expansion (2-7-23)

Yup, it's the Clinic's design....

 

 

Clinic unveils Innovation District buildings
By Ken Prendergast / February 14, 2023

 

Two years ago, Gov. Mike DeWine announced hundreds of millions of dollars in state money to launch the Cleveland Innovation District — a program to advance health care, research and related activities in the Greater Cleveland area. This week, one of the largest and most visible outcomes of that initiative will be unveiled in the form of plans for the Cleveland Clinic Foundation’s next phase of its Global Center for Pathogen and Human Health Research at its Main Campus in Cleveland’s Fairfax neighborhood.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blog/2023/02/14/clinic-unveils-innovation-district-buildings/

The investment in the city is great, but architecturally this building is just one massive block.  

eh I'm ok with it. I think it's important for overall look of a city to have some "boring" buildings. Not every design needs to be groundbreaking and avant-garde 

Nice grassy lawn you got there CC. 

@KJP Do we know target start and completion dates?

 

I'm completely satisfied with the design (which fwiw is just an artist rendering, not a architectural rendering). This (like all Clinic activites) does have to be judged by HOSPITAL standards. If you look at the campuses of other world-class hospitals like NYU, or Columbia Presbyterian, or Brigham & Women's, or Cedars-Sinai, the architecture is anywhere from pleasant looking and boring to super ugly. The Cleveland Clinic's new buildings over the last decade are more in the pleasant but boring category than the ugly category.

@LlamaLawyer I asked CCF but didn't get an answer. Last April, the Clinic put out a map with hoped-for delivery dates and said they wanted to deliver this phase of the Pathogens Center by the first quarter of 2025. Considering it would take about 18-24 months to build this structure, I would push back that delivery date by at least six months.

Architects: "Voila, our signature architectural feature for this rendering will be a garage door."

U.O. Commenters: "Oh yes, very nice!"

 

Me: Laughing hard at this other illustration, with all those people filling Cleveland sidewalks, broad and rimmed with shrubs & wide lawns, and all walking together toward this monolith as if they're crowding to go to see a rock concert.

'Only two cars too during mid-day is also very realistic.

 

They sure know how to try and sell it, lol.

 

Edited February 14, 20232 yr by ExPatClevGuy

1 hour ago, LlamaLawyer said:

@KJP Do we know target start and completion dates?

 

I'm completely satisfied with the design (which fwiw is just an artist rendering, not a architectural rendering). This (like all Clinic activites) does have to be judged by HOSPITAL standards. If you look at the campuses of other world-class hospitals like NYU, or Columbia Presbyterian, or Brigham & Women's, or Cedars-Sinai, the architecture is anywhere from pleasant looking and boring to super ugly. The Cleveland Clinic's new buildings over the last decade are more in the pleasant but boring category than the ugly category.

 

I think looking at some of the examples you cited is instructive.  Take Columbia Presbyterian:

 

 

Now clearly the Clinic is not going to start building in this gothic revival style.  But the building meets the street in a much more lively, interactive manner.  The massing of the building is also broken up in a pleasant way.

 

Although this other view shows that Presbyterian manages to out-skywalk the Clinic, which I didn't think was possible.

 

Looking at Cedars Sinai in LA, your mileage may vary as to the aesthetics of the glass curtain wall compared to the Clinic's recent designs, but the building is more urban in terms of meeting the street.  The clinic buildings recently have had suburban style setbacks. 

 

I think the best comparison for recent Clinic designs is not other cities' hospitals, but the Pelli-designed Clinic buildings.  Yes, some of them like Cole had suburban setbacks, but in my opinion they were cited better and were better looking than recent designs.  Some of this is a difference in aesthetic preferences that people just aren't going to agree on, but other aspects like how the buildings meet the sidewalk are more objective ways to kill sidewalk traffic in a neighborhood.

 

 

 -

 

 

Edited February 14, 20232 yr by ExPatClevGuy
Please delete

32 minutes ago, ryanfrazier said:

 

I think looking at some of the examples you cited is instructive.  Take Columbia Presbyterian:

 

 

Now clearly the Clinic is not going to start building in this gothic revival style.  But the building meets the street in a much more lively, interactive manner.  The massing of the building is also broken up in a pleasant way.

 

Although this other view shows that Presbyterian manages to out-skywalk the Clinic, which I didn't think was possible.

 

Looking at Cedars Sinai in LA, your mileage may vary as to the aesthetics of the glass curtain wall compared to the Clinic's recent designs, but the building is more urban in terms of meeting the street.  The clinic buildings recently have had suburban style setbacks. 

 

I think the best comparison for recent Clinic designs is not other cities' hospitals, but the Pelli-designed Clinic buildings.  Yes, some of them like Cole had suburban setbacks, but in my opinion they were cited better and were better looking than recent designs.  Some of this is a difference in aesthetic preferences that people just aren't going to agree on, but other aspects like how the buildings meet the sidewalk are more objective ways to kill sidewalk traffic in a neighborhood.

 

 

Maybe it's just taste, but to me none of these have a particularly welcoming aesthetic. I know they're less set back, but does that really matter if people aren't walking to them?

 

The main problem I see with the Clinic (and many hospitals) is it's on such a large campus with only one dedicated use that walking is much less practical. It's not like CWRU's campus where you have school buildings and other businesses interspersed. The Clinic's campus is one contiguous block with nothing else there.

 

It's more than 1 km across, so if you live on one side of the Clinic and want to talk to a restaurant, etc. on the other, you're spending 15 minutes of your walk just to get across the Clinic's campus. I think THAT is the real problem with the Clinic's layout, and I don't see setbacks as making it any better or worse.

1 hour ago, LlamaLawyer said:

Maybe it's just taste, but to me none of these have a particularly welcoming aesthetic. I know they're less set back, but does that really matter if people aren't walking to them?

 

The main problem I see with the Clinic (and many hospitals) is it's on such a large campus with only one dedicated use that walking is much less practical. It's not like CWRU's campus where you have school buildings and other businesses interspersed. The Clinic's campus is one contiguous block with nothing else there.

 

It's more than 1 km across, so if you live on one side of the Clinic and want to talk to a restaurant, etc. on the other, you're spending 15 minutes of your walk just to get across the Clinic's campus. I think THAT is the real problem with the Clinic's layout, and I don't see setbacks as making it any better or worse.

 

The thing that will change that problem is surrounding the Clinic campus with supportive uses like offices, housing, retail, and restaurants in all directions.  And yes, setbacks always add distance to a walk, by definition.  Maybe not much, of course.

 

I do agree that the images of other hospitals aren't actually much more inviting to pedestrians, though.  They have less setback, but only one appears to have an entrance on the sidewalk.  And none of them are incorporating any sort of mixed/public facing use on the ground floor.

Mayo has what we're looking for. Some time back they made a conscious decision to create more of a mixed use campus. It feels more like a neighborhood or small town rather than a corporate entity. It's walkable, relaxing and quite pleasant for a large hospital headquarters.

 

Medical care aside, us UO types prefer something more organic and less sterile or corporate. I doubt we're ever going to get what we want with the Clinic. Best get used to it.

6 minutes ago, cadmen said:

Mayo has what we're looking for. Some time back they made a conscious decision to create more of a mixed use campus. It feels more like a neighborhood or small town rather than a corporate entity. It's walkable, relaxing and quite pleasant for a large hospital headquarters.

 

Medical care aside, us UO types prefer something more organic and less sterile or corporate. I doubt we're ever going to get what we want with the Clinic. Best get used to it.

 

Yeah, I've sort of written off what happens on CC's campus proper as economically necessary but ugly, like a modern day rolling mill, but I eagerly watch the development surrounding it.

8 hours ago, ryanfrazier said:

 

I think looking at some of the examples you cited is instructive.  Take Columbia Presbyterian:

 

 

Looking at Cedars Sinai in LA, your mileage may vary as to the aesthetics of the glass curtain wall compared to the Clinic's recent designs, but the building is more urban in terms of meeting the street.   

 

 

I live in LA and Cedar’s Sinai is where my doctor is and my son was born there. There is nothing worth emulating design-wise from the CS campus. It is ugly and depressing to walk around. It may front the street in some places, but it is not open or welcoming at street level. I would take the Cleveland Clinic’s grassy lawns and setbacks any day over this jumble of designs. 
 

CC gets a lot of flack on this forum, but I think they’ve made strides in recent years to better engage the surrounding community. 

21 hours ago, ryanfrazier said:

 

I think looking at some of the examples you cited is instructive.  Take Columbia Presbyterian:

 

 

Now clearly the Clinic is not going to start building in this gothic revival style.  But the building meets the street in a much more lively, interactive manner.  The massing of the building is also broken up in a pleasant way.

 

Although this other view shows that Presbyterian manages to out-skywalk the Clinic, which I didn't think was possible.

 

 

 

 

 

right across 168st from the entrance here is the mammoth old armory, nowadays the new balance track & field armory where i go see the millrose games, which is also a block buster.

 

however, towards broadway and on broadway are a slew of small delis and restaurants that cater to hospital staff.

and of course apts above. all that is exactly the type of thing the clinic and surrounding neighborhood need to help promote and develop nearby.

By the time this project is completed, the Clinic will own Cedar (at least between 100th and 105th streets) as much as they already own Chester, Euclid, and Carnegie.  That may just be the southern outer bound of its growth, because residential streets full of single family homes and some small townhouses abound south of Cedar.  Kind of the same thing they're facing north of Chester with the Hough neighborhood.  Just no institutional room to grow.

 

I'm guessing that's why they bought the Playhouse property and surrounding environs.  Once the Neuro Institute is done, there is nowhere to grow but to the west.  (Not many streets to the east of the campus other than the one-way stretch of Stokes and the railroad tracks).

I think the comments at the Global Pathogen Center presentation today were going the right direction. I thought Joyce Huang's comments were very well put about how you need public-facing gathering spaces to maximize innovation! If this is an "innovation district" you need coffee shops, and gyms and other "third spaces" (my word not hers) where people can bump into each other and form new relationships and develop new ideas together. 

I'm glad both committees were willing to voice these concerns. its an interesting tension between creating a research building and being inclusive to the neighborhood.  Clinic has done a lot of talking about that, but this design didn't demonstrate that commitment 

1 hour ago, Whipjacka said:

I'm glad both committees were willing to voice these concerns. its an interesting tension between creating a research building and being inclusive to the neighborhood.  Clinic has done a lot of talking about that, but this design didn't demonstrate that commitment 

 

"Why? We put glass along more than half of the ground-floor façade facing Cedar!"

Wife sent this over to me earlier when she got into work. Site of the new Neuro building.

Didn't have time for pics but I did observe that the sidewalk at the NW corner of Cedar and East 100th St. is blocked off by barrels that protrude into the northern-most right lane of Cedar.  Lot of construction equipment is lined up on the NW parcel as well.  Perhaps a Pathogen Center groundbreaking is near?

24 minutes ago, Down_with_Ctown said:

Didn't have time for pics but I did observe that the sidewalk at the NW corner of Cedar and East 100th St. is blocked off by barrels that protrude into the northern-most right lane of Cedar.  Lot of construction equipment is lined up on the NW parcel as well.  Perhaps a Pathogen Center groundbreaking is near?

 

Is that new? They've had construction equipment there for the first phase inside Lerner. Wouldn't be surprised if they did a groundbreaking for phase two before city approvals. They did the same thing with Cole's expansion.

Neurological Institute (2-25-23)

 

 

 

Cole Eye Institute Expansion

 

 

Playhouse / Sears Demolition

 

 

 

 

 

 

The 89th-90th block along Chester looks even more bare now with the removal of some more trees a little bit ago. The clinic owns the whole block except for the apartment building at 1934 East 90th. I think this may be one of the largest pieces of empty land in the greater UC area (until the former Playhouse lot is cleared). 

 

Update on the demolition of CPH. 

Planning commission pushes back on Clinic building plans, wants more community engagement

 

https://thelandcle.org/stories/planning-commission-pushes-back-on-clinic-building-plans-wants-more-community-engagement/

Every time I see this demo I'm reminded of the They Might be Giants lyric:

 

Throw the crib door wide

Let the people crawl inside

Someone in this town

Is trying to burn the playhouse down

On 3/3/2023 at 12:21 AM, sonisharri said:

Planning commission pushes back on Clinic building plans, wants more community engagement

 

https://thelandcle.org/stories/planning-commission-pushes-back-on-clinic-building-plans-wants-more-community-engagement/

 

The Planning Commission wants street interaction with a pathogen lab?  A more understandable position would be them wanting the lab located on the crib miles out in the lake. 

 

At the already walled and guard-restricted NIH, the pathogen lab has walls within walls and its own guards at every entrance. You absolutely do not want public interaction with a pathogen lab. A couple of benches along the sidewalk, ok. Mingling in the building, a hard no.

11 minutes ago, Dougal said:

 

The Planning Commission wants street interaction with a pathogen lab?  A more understandable position would be them wanting the lab located on the crib miles out in the lake. 

 

At the already walled and guard-restricted NIH, the pathogen lab has walls within walls and its own guards at every entrance. You absolutely do not want public interaction with a pathogen lab. A couple of benches along the sidewalk, ok. Mingling in the building, a hard no.

 

Because there's no way that the public facing cafe and the pathogen research labs proper could have things like separate entrances.

11 minutes ago, Dougal said:

 

The Planning Commission wants street interaction with a pathogen lab?  A more understandable position would be them wanting the lab located on the crib miles out in the lake. 

 

At the already walled and guard-restricted NIH, the pathogen lab has walls within walls and its own guards at every entrance. You absolutely do not want public interaction with a pathogen lab. A couple of benches along the sidewalk, ok. Mingling in the building, a hard no.

 

Yes it sounds strange, but HOK and the Clinic are pitching this concept of interaction:

 

The wet labs, or labs where researchers use chemicals rather than just computer-generated models, would have glass walls so people can see the research happening there from the outside, Felder said. 

 

Outside the center, there would also be bike racks, low lighting, and outdoor seating, including benches next to the nearby bus stop on the corner, Schwartzberg said. 

 

“HOK’s designed a really thoughtful building that, despite the level of security that’s required for research, is really attempting to bring some of this activity, make it very visible to the neighborhood and really engage people with the incredible work that’s going to be going on here,” she said.

20 minutes ago, X said:

 

Because there's no way that the public facing cafe and the pathogen research labs proper could have things like separate entrances.

 

Why take the risk of mixing plumbing and air handling systems?  And if they are totally segregated, you might as well have two buildings. It's not worth the risk.

I 100% agree that the Clinic is too walled off and I am on the team that feels it should be doing more to engage with the surrounding community as well as simply making its campus more pleasurable for employees and visitors alike.  However, of all places on the campus where this should be happening, the pathogen research lab on Cedar would be about 100th on my list of places resources should be expended to reach this goal.  Lets start big on all of Euclid as well as parts of Chester and Carnegie  and then focus on the more outlying areas.

Edited March 4, 20232 yr by Htsguy

If they can’t figure out how to keep dangerous viruses and bacteria in the specific parts of the building they’re supposed to be, that seems like it a pretty big problem whether or not there’s a public interface.