Looks like the guesthouse is closed and fencing around it for it's demo for medical school.

^what happened to the bookstore that was there?

As much as I dislike the Clinic for their lust for more lawn space, they sure move quickly on things...

 

Cleveland Clinic aims to build hotel, possibly a Holiday Inn, on Euclid Avenue church land

By Michelle Jarboe McFee, The Plain Dealer

September 12, 2013 at 2:30 PM

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2013/09/cleveland_clinic_aims_to_build.html#incart_river_default

 

LEVELAND, Ohio -- The Cleveland Clinic hopes to build a hotel -- possibly a Holiday Inn -- at Euclid Avenue and East 86th Street, if the city approves a demolition request for the historic church that now stands on the site.

 

Brian Smith, the Clinic's director of strategic project development, described the hospital system's plans for the Church of the Transfiguration property during a Thursday presentation to the Cleveland Landmarks Commission. The Episcopal Diocese of Ohio, which owns the church and has asked permission to raze it, recently entered a purchase agreement with the Clinic for the land beneath the building.

 

Landmarks Commission members, who have some control over historic buildings in the city, tabled the demolition discussion after more than an hour. They asked the diocese and the Clinic to make a follow-up presentation Sept. 26, with details including a site plan for the hotel.

 

To replace the Guesthouse, the Clinic and InterContinental Hotels Group are considering a 270- to 275-room Holiday Inn, Smith said. Without a site plan, it's unclear how the hotel would fit with the nearby InterContinental Suites, on Euclid; a Clinic parking garage just south of the church site; or the former Cleveland Play House complex, which the Clinic plans to re-use.

 

^When you have money, you can do that. Too bad they don't pay taxes.

As much as I dislike the Clinic for their lust for more lawn space, they sure move quickly on things...

 

Cleveland Clinic aims to build hotel, possibly a Holiday Inn, on Euclid Avenue church land

By Michelle Jarboe McFee, The Plain Dealer

September 12, 2013 at 2:30 PM

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2013/09/cleveland_clinic_aims_to_build.html#incart_river_default

 

 

I don't think that church looks that bad structural. Sure, it looks bad cosmetically. So why can the church be incorporated into the hotel? And if the answer is "that's not part of our mission" then that's a professional-sounding way of saying "I'm lazy and I don't feel like it." We should try to do better than the easy way out.

They already own the surface lot just east of the church. Looking at the aerial view on Google maps, the space looks about 110x200ft. That should be enough to build a hotel using the entire parcel, with an entrance and valet service right off East 86th. But I bet that was never a consideration. It would have to be pretty tall, but density should be expected along Euclid -- not the exception. Between this and the crappy site plan for the new CSU building. :roll:

I am bummed they already wrote off incorporating any of the church structure with the new development.

As someone who works at the Clinic and walks by this travesty of a building every day, and as someone who also is an architecture aficionado.... Good riddance. This building has been neglected for years and years. It is beyond an eyesore. Had the original owners maintained it, maybe then the Clinic could be blamed for not incorporating it into the design. However, it is not the Clinic's fault that it has fallen into disrepair. And how many empty churches must sit on Euclid? At one point with the population of the area they probably had parishes spilling out the door, but this is so clearly not the case in this area.

 

They are doing things the right way - building a hotel that will be larger than just the lot of the current church. It will generate foot traffic and hopefully spur additional development on nearby parcels of land.

As someone who works at the Clinic and walks by this travesty of a building every day, and as someone who also is an architecture aficionado.... Good riddance. This building has been neglected for years and years. It is beyond an eyesore. Had the original owners maintained it, maybe then the Clinic could be blamed for not incorporating it into the design. However, it is not the Clinic's fault that it has fallen into disrepair. And how many empty churches must sit on Euclid? At one point with the population of the area they probably had parishes spilling out the door, but this is so clearly not the case in this area.

 

They are doing things the right way - building a hotel that will be larger than just the lot of the current church. It will generate foot traffic and hopefully spur additional development on nearby parcels of land.

 

For the most part, I don't have a problem with what you are saying. I would love to see the church become part of the development and be that place where those who deal with life and death everyday can relax and take solice. But until those property owners who practice 'demolition by neglect' are held to higher standards the problem will persist. Developers such as the Clinic or someone like Gilbert with the Stanley are expected to foot the bill and erase 30 years of neglect.

 

^ amen!

 

As great as it would be to see such a grand old building repurposed into a magnificent lobby for a new hotel, the 6 to 8 million dollars mentioned in the article is mind boggling.  On a ballpark scale, wouldn't a new 250 room hotel cost in the 20 million range?

 

Additionally I don't know where they got their numbers, but the guesthouse only had 177 rooms. The guesthouse was consistently near or at capacity. They (the Clinic) wanted to do this all in 2008, but that whole messy bank collapse happened, and the plans were tabled. They realized the guesthouse was like that 1988 Honda civic  that still runs ok; it cost nearly nothing to keep open.

 

 

^ amen!

 

As great as it would be to see such a grand old building repurposed into a magnificent lobby for a new hotel, the 6 to 8 million dollars mentioned in the article is mind boggling.  On a ballpark scale, wouldn't a new 250 room hotel cost in the 20 million range?

 

Additionally I don't know where they got their numbers, but the guesthouse only had 177 rooms. The guesthouse was consistently near or at capacity. They (the Clinic) wanted to do this all in 2008, but that whole messy bank collapse happened, and the plans were tabled. They realized the guesthouse was like that 1988 Honda civic  that still runs ok; it cost nearly nothing to keep open.

 

 

 

Hi originaljbw -

 

I wrote the story about the church demolition request and possible hotel project. The number of guest rooms for the Guesthouse came directly from the Clinic, and their director of strategic project development double-checked it for me after the Landmarks Commission meeting on Thursday.

 

Michelle

^Thanks for the clarification, Michelle - your responsiveness on cleveland.com and here is very much appreciated.

As someone who works at the Clinic and walks by this travesty of a building every day, and as someone who also is an architecture aficionado.... Good riddance. This building has been neglected for years and years. It is beyond an eyesore. Had the original owners maintained it, maybe then the Clinic could be blamed for not incorporating it into the design. However, it is not the Clinic's fault that it has fallen into disrepair. And how many empty churches must sit on Euclid? At one point with the population of the area they probably had parishes spilling out the door, but this is so clearly not the case in this area.

 

They are doing things the right way - building a hotel that will be larger than just the lot of the current church. It will generate foot traffic and hopefully spur additional development on nearby parcels of land.

 

If the other hotels on the Clinic's campus are any indication, this new one will probably generate very little foot traffic, and given that the Clinic owns all the land nearby, it's not going to spur any additional development.  However, the Guest House had pretty much the only publicly-visible storefronts in the Clinic area...I hope they consider replacing them in the new hotel,, and if they do, it would be big plus and really could help liven up Euclid a bit.

Developers such as the Clinic or someone like Gilbert with the Stanley are expected to foot the bill and erase 30 years of neglect.

 

I don't think anyone expected Gilbert/the casino to rehabilitate the Stanley, they just wanted to get the building out of the messed-up ownership structure (which involved the casino ownership) that blocked rehabilitation from occuring.

 

 

Cleveland Landmarks Commission delays vote on Euclid Ave. church demolition near Cleveland Clinic

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The Cleveland Landmarks Commission delayed its vote on the demolition of a historic Euclid Avenue church on Thursday, after a sometimes contentious discussion between commission members and representatives for the Episcopal Diocese of Ohio.

 

The commission appeared divided over the future of the Church of the Transfiguration, which sits at the northwest edge of the Cleveland Clinic's main campus. The Clinic hopes to build a 10-story, 279-room hotel on the church property and strips of land on either side.

 

After seeing the site plan, though, some commission members seemed no more comfortable with the demolition. Their unease had little to do with the hotel.

 

"I don't want to see us make a terrible mistake and, by golly, this decision revolves on us," said member Thomas Coffey, who said the church would be impossible to replace. "I think either way I would vote on this, I would probably have a regret," Allan Dreyer, another member, said after expressing concern about what will happen if the building continues to languish.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2013/09/cleveland_landmarks_commission.html

FWIW, incorporating an impractical historic structure into a new hotel adjacent to an elite US medical campus is not unprecedented.  The Liberty Hotel is on the edge of the MGH campus in Boston and includes a mid 19th century jail.  Makes for a stunning setting for bars, restaurants, and common areas:

http://www.libertyhotel.com/index.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Street_Jail

 

Sadly, Cleveland is more of a bargain basement hotel town, and the Clinic already views the super bland Intercontinental on Carnegie as its "luxury" option, so there isn't much of a business case for the Clinic to incorporate the old church.  Too bad, could have been awesome.

Cleveland Landmarks Commission delays vote on Euclid Ave. church demolition near Cleveland Clinic

 

 

Good. I'm glad they're at least thinking about it. But I doubt they have the stones to tell Cleveland Clinic to incorporate the church into their hotel.

 

I took pics of this a few days ago because who knows how long it'll be around.

the Fairfax neighborhood is going to have to change their logo (stylized church crosses) on Euclid Corridor stops if this continues unabated

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've attended services in churches in Europe that looked worse than that. Danger of collapse? Well you have to admire their desire to influence the landmarks commission with hyperbole.

I've attended services in churches in Europe that looked worse than that. Danger of collapse? Well you have to admire their desire to influence the landmarks commission with hyperbole.

 

Just because it looks ok on the outside doesn't mean the structure is ok.

Just because it looks ok on the outside doesn't mean the structure is ok.

 

The pictures on the inside show no structural cracks in walls or compromised ceiling supports. Just because water is leaking in doesn't mean its in danger of collapse.

 

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/landmark/agenda/2013/09122013/index.php

 

So I am more inclined to question Cleveland Clinic's motives based on their history of preservation and adaptive reuse.... They have none.

Just because it looks ok on the outside doesn't mean the structure is ok.

 

The pictures on the inside show no structural cracks in walls or compromised ceiling supports. Just because water is leaking in doesn't mean its in danger of collapse.

 

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/landmark/agenda/2013/09122013/index.php

 

So I am more inclined to question Cleveland Clinic's motives based on their history of preservation and adaptive reuse.... They have none.

 

But that guy with the hardhat was so convincing ha ha.

 

This building is irreplaceable. It's soulful and historic. There should be pressure on the Clinic to do the right thing.

 

Don't we all want Euclid Ave to be special?

 

 

 

 

Does the Landmarks Commission have a structural engineer on its own payroll? If not, why not?

Just because it looks ok on the outside doesn't mean the structure is ok.

 

The pictures on the inside show no structural cracks in walls or compromised ceiling supports. Just because water is leaking in doesn't mean its in danger of collapse.

 

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/landmark/agenda/2013/09122013/index.php

 

So I am more inclined to question Cleveland Clinic's motives based on their history of preservation and adaptive reuse.... They have none.

 

There are other issues in the report than water damage. Something is off with the foundation. The stone arches inside are pulling apart and there is a 10" floor difference from the center isle to the side isle. I agree that there is not enough damage that it could be fixed.

 

This same issue happened a year ago in Akron with a church that McDonald's bought. http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,3151.msg618410.html#msg618410

 

You're correct, CC probably has no adaptive reuse in store because churches are one of, if not the hardest structure to reuse, unless it would again be used for an assembly space.

 

Does the Landmarks Commission have a structural engineer on its own payroll? If not, why not?

 

I would think they would want to use an independent 3rd party, or else the city inspector.

You're correct, CC probably has no adaptive reuse in store because churches are one of, if not the hardest structure to reuse, unless it would again be used for an assembly space.

 

Or a hotel lobby or hotel restaurant......

 

http://www.thechronicle.com.au/news/inner-city-business-owners-are-eager-to-hear-wheth/1933235/

 

http://www.designcombo.blogspot.com/2012/12/la-purificadora-hotel-by-ricardo.html

 

http://www.designhotels.com/kruisheren

 

 

 

 

 

/\/\ looks great, and similar to what Crop has done. I can't imagine how much it costs to heat a space like that though vs. a traditional space. Also, I am really not a fan of the acoustics in Crop.

And who knows, it may never work here. But let's see some numbers.

 

One that I dont mind seeing come down, from this past weekend

 

 

 

 

 

 

Landmarks Commission again delays vote on church demo, as Cleveland Clinic refuses to reuse facade

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The Cleveland Landmarks Commission again pushed off its decision on the future of a Euclid Avenue church on Thursday, as members sought more clarity on how the historic stone building will be taken apart and where pieces of it will be reused.

 

Clearly frustrated, some members of the commission tried to strike a compromise with the Cleveland Clinic, which is in line to buy the church land once it's cleared. But the Clinic, which aims to build a hotel on the site and neighboring land, took a hard-line stance against incorporating part of the Church of the Transfiguration's facade into the hotel building.

 

After citing the Clinic's objection -- basically, that the Clinic and InterContinental Hotels Group attract patrons from a wide range of religious backgrounds -- a Clinic executive provided terse responses to follow-up questions and tried to shift focus to the Episcopal Diocese of Ohio, which applied for the demolition permit.

 

"I defer to the diocese," said Brian Smith, the Clinic's director of strategic project development. "They're in the church business. We're in the health care business."

 

http://www.cleveland.com/osu/index.ssf/2013/10/post_128.html#incart_big-photo#incart_m-rpt-2

Landmarks Commission again delays vote on church demo, as Cleveland Clinic refuses to reuse facade

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The Cleveland Landmarks Commission again pushed off its decision on the future of a Euclid Avenue church on Thursday, as members sought more clarity on how the historic stone building will be taken apart and where pieces of it will be reused.

 

Clearly frustrated, some members of the commission tried to strike a compromise with the Cleveland Clinic, which is in line to buy the church land once it's cleared. But the Clinic, which aims to build a hotel on the site and neighboring land, took a hard-line stance against incorporating part of the Church of the Transfiguration's facade into the hotel building.

 

After citing the Clinic's objection -- basically, that the Clinic and InterContinental Hotels Group attract patrons from a wide range of religious backgrounds -- a Clinic executive provided terse responses to follow-up questions and tried to shift focus to the Episcopal Diocese of Ohio, which applied for the demolition permit.

 

"I defer to the diocese," said Brian Smith, the Clinic's director of strategic project development. "They're in the church business. We're in the health care business."

 

http://www.cleveland.com/osu/index.ssf/2013/10/post_128.html#incart_big-photo#incart_m-rpt-2

 

Clinic sounds like a bunch of arrogant jerks in this article.

 

WOW. This would be a fabulous way for the Clinic to pay homage to the history of the Fairfax neighborhood, rather than to continue the Clinic's own rich legacy of tearing down Fairfax.

I believe this is the portion between Euclid and Carnegie for the replacement of the Cedarland (photos are a few posts earlier).....

 

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/drcagenda/2013/11012013/index.php

 

City Planning Commission

Agenda for November 1, 2013

 

 

1. Resolution No. 1414-13(Ward 6/Councilmember Mitchell): Declaring the intent to vacate a portion of East 97th Street.

Is there anyone who people should write letters to so that there can be a strong public record to hold the Clinic to responsible development?

What's going in in place of the mid-rise brick structures that were demoed across from the Heart Center? 

^CWRU-Clinic Medical School

^CWRU-Clinic Medical School

Gotcha.  Is that immediate, or is there a parking lot going in there in the near term?  I haven't seen renderrings.

^I don't think so...I am under the impression that they want to do this fast.

 

I thought the conceptual that was floating around on the Board was pretty sharp although if I recall they plan some large green space on the east side of the building which did not thrill me.

They are aiming to have the new medical school building done in time for the 2016 entering class (which starts July). I haven't seen any new renderings, and they were pretty careful to say the ones that had been released were very early concepts and would probably change considerably. Idk how these things go, maybe they always say that to cover their butts.

 

^Yeah, after Htsguy said there was a conceptual floating around, I google searched it.  Like he said, there is a huge green space on the east side of the building, and it's only about 2 stories.  Honestly, given what surrounbds that parcel, I think it may look a bit out of place. 

Are these different from the ones posted in the PD article?  Those seemed to indicate 4 stories.

It looks more like 3 or 4 stories to me, but regardless, it's definitely shorter than a lot of surrounding buildings. To be honest, I'm super-pumped about the greenspace ... Really hope we don't lose it in the design process because it could be a lot worse. While there's a ton of greenspace on the east end of the parcel, the building hugs the street pretty tightly on the north, south and west. Instead of that greenspace, they could go the traditional Clinic / CSU route and create an oddly-shaped building in the middle of the parcel, with a bunch of oddly shaped "parks" that would function solely as landscaping barriers. Or we could see a final design that has that greenspace replaced with surface parking ... Or weird one-way "allees" terminating in a car drop-off at the door. If you want to see how a parcel this size could be wayyyyy worse, just walk across the street to the Crile Building: http://goo.gl/maps/NVhKQ :D

 

If you're not going to take up the whole block with your current construction, I'm actually pretty stoked that you're developing a greenspace that's actually large enough to be a functional park instead of a giant treelawn and that you've left space for other street-fronting buildings instead of plopping down an oddly-shaped building in the middle. I would be ECSTATIC if CSU dumped its Center for Innovations in Health Professions plans for exactly this preliminary design :)

OK, so now the Clinic is proposing to preserve the entryway of the church -- and still demolish the rest.......

 

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/landmark/agenda/2013/11142013/index.php

 

Cleveland Landmarks Commission

CITY HALL - ROOM 514 - 9:00 AM

AGENDA - November 14, 2013

 

 

Emmanuel Episcopal Church Case 13-062

8614 Euclid Avenue

Demolition

 

 

I like it. I think thats the most reasonable option we have when it comes to this. This will at the least make the hotel into something unique. Theres only so many uses for an old church like this, and then even less for one in this shape without dumping a boat load of money into it.

Its hard for me not to feel that this will end up looking too "forced". I appreciate the desire to honor the past, but it is hard to actually pull it off well when you're incorporating it into a very formulaic use such as a mid-tier hotel.

Regarding the new medical school building, there have been a lot of internal focus groups meeting and brainstorming about what students and professors need, want, like, etc. All the feedback is being given to the architect Foster. The process is very much alive and moving forward.

Its hard for me not to feel that this will end up looking too "forced". I appreciate the desire to honor the past, but it is hard to actually pull it off well when you're incorporating it into a very formulaic use such as a mid-tier hotel.

 

The photo says the entrance way will be preserved and relocated. I'm guessing it won't be part of the hotel design.

The photo above indicates the arch would be preserved and relocated. Are we just assuming that means it will be part of the hotel project or could it mean it might be relocated elsewhere.

Cleveland Landmarks Commission signs off on historic church demolition near Cleveland Clinic

By Michelle Jarboe McFee, The Plain Dealer

on November 14, 2013 at 1:20 PM, updated November 14, 2013 at 1:21 PM

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The Church of the Transfiguration will be demolished and replaced with a Cleveland Clinic hotel, after a Thursday vote that ended two months of deliberations by a city commission that oversees historic properties.

 

But the Episcopal Diocese of Ohio has agreed to remove and preserve a 33-foot-long portion of the church's entrance, which eventually will be rebuilt on another site.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2013/11/cleveland_landmarks_commission_2.html#incart_river_default

^the quote from Clinic rep as to why they could not incorporate the facade of the church into the hotel design had bs dripping from it.  Like a poster commented up thread, the Clinic reps have sounded like a bunch of AS#%$ throughout this process.

 

The north side of Carnegie between 102 and 105 Streets will be a new home for the Clinic's cancer program.

 

Crains:  "A new home for the Cleveland Clinic's cancer program, which will be located across from Tomsich Pathology Laboratories on Carnegie Avenue between 102nd and 105th streets. The Clinic is working with architects to design the building. A timeline for the project wasn't provided."

 

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20140226/FREE/140229851