I'm just curious why they think it won't be ordinary?? Looks pretty ordinary...unless they are talking about inside.

When Cleveland.bomb commenters are trashing your architecture, it's probably not really good.

 

SeamlessTransition 2 days ago

I'll bring over some of my thoughts on this building from the article from earlier this month ago declaring the city's approval of this...ahem...building:

 

this is not even remotely good architecture

 

I hope an asteroid hits it

 

Norman Foster (and now the architecture firm noted in this story), never tell anyone that you are associated with this

 

a lifeless, moribund, colorless campus....such is the CCF campus.

I'm just curious why they think it won't be ordinary?? Looks pretty ordinary...unless they are talking about inside.

 

I could be wrong, but I think they are thinking of the functionality of the building for the purposes of treating cancer patients moreso than the aesthetics of looking at it from the street.

a lifeless, moribund, colorless campus....such is the CCF campus.

 

Well said. Even worse, CCF doesn't seem to care.

a lifeless, moribund, colorless campus....such is the CCF campus.

 

Well said. Even worse, CCF doesn't seem to care.

I agree the campus and new building could use a little more pizazz, wish they would attempt something bold like they did with their Las Vegas building. 

a lifeless, moribund, colorless campus....such is the CCF campus.

 

Well said. Even worse, CCF doesn't seem to care.

I agree the campus and new building could use a little more pizazz, wish they would attempt something bold like they did with their Las Vegas building. 

 

That building is bold. But the Clinic didn't build it - Lou Ruvo did. It was under construction well before the Clinic was chosen to operate it. They operate it but they didn't design or build it. They basically won a competition to put their name on a Gehry building.

^right. Same with Abu Dhabi. They operate it. They did not commission to design or build it.

The Clinic approach to design is meant to be clean, simple and melt into the background.  All buildings and their interiors are done in this manner.  Their mantra is "patients first" and are looked at as world leaders in terms of patient experience.  If you poll their patients asking them what they are looking for out of their healthcare, my guess is that unique architecture and a nod to urban design best practices is pretty low on the list.

The Clinic approach to design is meant to be clean, simple and melt into the background.  All buildings and their interiors are done in this manner.  Their mantra is "patients first" and are looked at as world leaders in terms of patient experience.  If you poll their patients asking them what they are looking for out of their healthcare, my guess is that unique architecture and a nod to urban design best practices is pretty low on the list.

 

That's a cop-out. How hard would it be for their architects to try?

Again, let's not worry about the CCF design practices.  They have been sub par for years, and continue to run that line.  Let's be excited for the private development that is occurring in the area.  Sure, I'm angry that their campus spans Euclid Avenue, but what is done is done.  Private developers should win our praise. 

I worry because CCF's practices of turning their buildings into tortoise shells has almost certainly limited the spin-off economic benefit for the surrounding neighborhoods and thus the city as a whole.

Also, keep in mind the public perception around healthcare in general at the moment.  Overspending on design is not going to go over well.  Beyond the PR aspect of things, the healthcare business model has been upended under ACA and has dramatically impacted revenue.  it is quite possible that there is no budget for it or operating dollars are being shifted prioritized elsewhere.  i.e. Physician retention/salary/research/health partner affiliations/mergers, etc.

Such intransigence and dismissive attitude is certainly reflected in CCF's designs. Or maybe we recognize that engaging, uplifting design actually improves people's moods, productivity and delivery of services! And maybe if there were leasable spaces fronting Euclid Avenue, people might look at CCF and say -- what a great idea to diversify the revenue stream and reduce my healthcare costs! Neighborhood stakeholders would say it's about time CCF started to be a part of the neighborhood rather than turn their backs on it as they have for 40+ years (you're probably too young to remember the battles between CCF and the neighborhood in the 1970s and 80s). And we urbanists can look up on the sidewalks of Fairfax and note that CCF has decided to address its urban settings, rather than have it merely have an urban address and be set behind grassy strips, door-/window-less walls and no mixed-use front major thoroughfares.

 

This really isn't so difficult to accomplish as some of you are making it out to be.

 

This how the Mayo Clinic, one of CCF's main competitors in a much smaller city, interacts with its surroundings with a more urban, pedestrian-friendly, softer, interactive shell. These still are not perfect, but certainly better than what CCF practicies....

 

 

 

 

 

 

Geez, even a Starbucks on the ground-floor of a boring building up against the sidewalk would be a wonderful improvement for CCF!

 

Maybe more patients would like to come to CCF if it didn't look like the NSA's drab-n-dreary compound in Fort Meade!

^your comment that those buildings aren't perfect is kind of an understatement.  Also...I wasn't aware the Clinic was having problems drawing patients. 

Yes, patient volumes are flat and expected to be further impacted moving forward.

 

Private market health exchanges serving individuals looking for options beyond their employer are coming online soon.  Many plans represented within these exchanges offer low-cost options which do not feature CCF.  Many individuals will be shopping based on cost alone and simply choose the low-cost option without realizing the true implications. 

 

Healthcare reimbursements from Medicare/Medicaid are also reduced in ACA with hospitals penalized for things like recidivism rate.  At CCF where they take the sickest of the sick/high acuity cases, they are going to be impacted.

 

Internally, employees are being tasked to be more efficient and find means of cost savings and running lean.  Operationally, budgets are being reduced, but only on the non-essential, non-patient facing aspects.

 

Other examples:

 

Let their Browns sponsorship deal lapse after something like a 50 year run as it was deemed non-essential

Starting a national fundraising campaign to introduce another revenue stream - The Power of One

 

The point I am trying to make is that they are likely just being prudent with their spending as the new healthcare business model shakes out.

 

 

^your comment that those buildings aren't perfect is kind of an understatement.  Also...I wasn't aware the Clinic was having problems drawing patients. 

 

They interact with the sidewalks and thus the city better than what CCF is able to do. And yes, I think CCF could actually draw more patients as well as peripheral, economic development activities that support its civic goals.

 

And raising the issue of fiscal prudence as an excuse for CCF's isolationism is a red herring. The only reason why the City Planning Commission doesn't hold CCF to higher standards is out fear. Some CPC members fear the Clinic's political influence and some fear losing CCF to the suburbs where soulless, perishable structures reside.

 

Point of all this to me is, as long as CCF is primarily a single-use property with little publicly accessible retail, restaurants and especially housing, it generates far more traffic (and unhealthy emissions) than it needs to and minimizes the economic impact it could otherwise produce for the community, notably Fairfax and Hough. The hotels are a good start. Upper Chester is a good start but came without help from CCF. I'm happy you guys are satisfied with CCF, but I'm not. How can I be when CCF's isolationism has helped preserve the acute poverty surrounding it. When we demand less from our civic institutions, that's exactly what we get.

^ You make good points about the Mayo Clinic and we've discussed them before. But it also takes private companies to develop areas. Many of the buildings you show aren't owned by the Mayo Clinic. They are privately owned and were privately developed. In the case of that Starbucks, it's attached to a very old hotel that is connected to Mayo by both a skywalk and an underground walkway. Certainly, Mayo encourages urban type development but the market has supported them. That's not really the case here. Most of the nearby buildings built by private landowners  were also decidedly non-urban. Is that really the Clinic's fault?

The Clinic demolished large sections of surrounding neighborhoods that were very urban, but it did so to remove blight and crime that the hospital considered as discouraging patient visits and probably discouraged people from wanting to work there. That was a great controversy as Councilwoman Fannie Lewis and others argued CCF should restore those structures (like all of the remaining structures at East 105th-Euclid the Clinic razed with no planned re-use for those properties -- that came decades later).

 

Now, since the Clinic was willing to remove decayed urban surroundings to make its facilities and services less threatening, why should it not undertake the inverse to make its facilities more attractive? I might even argue that it is the CCF's responsibility to restore the urban fabric that it removed. If the Clinic is willing to undertake social/health responsibility policies such as anti-smoking policies for its employees, shouldn't it also charge its employees to park and use those revenues to support development (such as via financing to private developers or direct construction) of employee housing within walking distance of the Clinic?? This may be especially useful considering Cleveland's low rents which make it difficult to get financing.

 

Let's look at another example -- the Longwood Medical Area of Boston which borders Roxbury which has much the same story of postwar decline as Hough and Fairfax including arsons, abandonment and ill-fated attempts at urban renewal. But more recent examples are more exciting....

 

First, here's a view of the area of Roxbury bordering Longwood, including an abandoned building at right and a huge vacant lot beyond which since has been developed:

 

Then, to show you that nobody's perfect, this new medical bunker, er building in Longwood turns its back on the Green Line much the way new CCF buildings turn their backs on the HealthLine:

 

But across the street and transit line from that bunker is a neighborhood that was never demolished by the medical center to eliminate blight and/or for surface parking lots to encourage more people to commute here from the suburbs. Instead, staff can walk to work, including from new housing (seen in the next block):

 

And here is my favorite photo. Intermixed among medical center facilities are several new residential buildings. Do some streetviews and look at the street presence of all structures, including the medical buildings, which encourage pedestrianism and also encourages spin-off development in an equally pedestrian-friendly way. Good design is as contagious as bad design. CCF needs to be a positive leader. Thanks for reading:

Yeah, as KJP's pics make clear, whether you're looking at Penn, Hopkins, MGH and the Longwood-area hospitals in Boston, UCSF or most of the its other peers, it's safe to say that the Clinic takes its physical isolation and scorched earth real estate policies to a pretty amazing extreme.  Some of this may be due to the fact that land in Cleveland has historically been practically worthless compared to most of those other cities, so campus sprawl has been cheap, but it really does seem to go deeper than that. I think it really may be a Clinic thing more than a big hospital thing.

 

Really, though, I don't expect the Clinic to have any particular urban design point of view or whatever. I'm just surprised it doesn't see its greater campus as more of a possible amenity for its employees or visitors.  I personally would be miserable working with no services nearby, or staying with a sick relative there, knowing I would need to trek to my car or wait for the bus anytime I needed to do most day-to-day things.  The only time I stayed in a Clinic hotel was my last, because the surroundings are so utterly desolate and, off-hours, completely lifeless. 

 

This is all personal preference, so I know many (likely most) people don't care, especially in a region increasingly accustomed to a meh exurban landscape, but I am legitimately surprised the Clinic hasn't even made a token efforts to try to make its surrounding less bleak for the benefit of those employees and visitors who do care.  Not a single Starbucks or CVS on that stretch of Euclid.  Just blows my mind.

There is a Starbucks inside the hospital and it is open 24/7.  It does the most volume in the entire stat of Ohio.

There is a Starbucks inside the hospital and it is open 24/7.  It does the most volume in the entire stat of Ohio.

 

This only underscores my point. I never knew it was there. You know why? Because it has no street presence! It is Clinic's land uses designed only for the Clinic, not for the community. No wonder the surrounding neighborhoods have received little if any benefit from the presence of CCF.

There is a Starbucks inside the hospital and it is open 24/7.  It does the most volume in the entire stat of Ohio.

 

This only underscores my point. I never knew it was there. You know why? Because it has no street presence! It is Clinic's land uses designed only for the Clinic, not for the community. No wonder the surrounding neighborhoods have received little if any benefit from the presence of CCF.

 

I knew it was there but completely agree!

And besides, trying to convince me to accept less just ain't gonna fly. The only time I will relent is when I'm dead. We should demand more of our civic institutions. Always push for better.

The best solution to the Clinic is to BOX IT IN. For the last half century they could buy pretty much any adjacent property because nobody else wanted it. With the Tudor Arms, Case Western/Uptown, Upper Chester, and Zaremba-Woodhaven, it's starting to happen. The day the Clinic can't expand outward anymore is the day they will start to care more about interaction with their surroundings and how they interact with the community.

the starbucks location is meant to be out of convenience for their caregivers, visitors, patients, families,loved ones, etc. and not for the general public. 

 

they are not your typical business looking to invite or encourage people to visit, they are all about trying to make things easier at a difficult time for people that would rather not be there.

 

also, as for demanding more out of our civic institutions, I am not sure how much more we could ask.  They provide nearly $1B in community benefit.  A lot of that in the form of healthcare treatment from ER visits from the uninsured.

 

http://my.clevelandclinic.org/ccf/media/Files/About-Cleveland-Clinic/overview/state-of-the-clinic-2013.pdf

 

I saw someone mention the layout of the neighborhood pre-Clinic.  I think these pics are good illustrators:

 

 

It kills me to look at that image and then look at it now.

 

Of course, the intermediary between then and now is this:

 

 

So I can assume, with or without the Clinic, that the physical infrastructure of the neighborhood would not have made it anyway.

 

Of course they have not done much in the way of making a true urban streetscape, but a lot of the earlier development (and resulting mindset) was created with the idea of keeping an urban warzone out, not integrating it into it.  The East Side of Cleveland of the 1970s and 1980s was hugely different than Rochester Minnesota.

 

That doesn't excuse their current sins but I think there is an ingrained momentum of development that harkens back to that era of building bunkers, not integrated structures.

 

 

Glad you posted that -- because I was trying to remember which photo had the theater marquee portraying some commentary on the Clinic's redevelopment philosophy (or lack thereof to improve rather than remove residential neighborhoods). Turns out that's the one....

That picture is one of the coolest I've seen on this forum.

Also, keep in mind the public perception around healthcare in general at the moment.  Overspending on design is not going to go over well.  Beyond the PR aspect of things, the healthcare business model has been upended under ACA and has dramatically impacted revenue.  it is quite possible that there is no budget for it or operating dollars are being shifted prioritized elsewhere.  i.e. Physician retention/salary/research/health partner affiliations/mergers, etc.

 

Wait, I'm trying to wrap my head around the fact that you're justifying CCF's poor-to-just-mediocre architecture and total cavalier approach to  neighborhood/street presence ... because of Obamacare!?  ... and we're talking about perhaps the richest and most prestigious research medical institute in America,... and even the world ... The Clinic's sterile "campus" building approach and projections -- no doubt including this new cancer center -- long predated Obamacare.  You lost me on this one, Holmes...

So Norman Foster (Lord Foster) came to speak at the Cleveland Clinic's Ideas for Tomorrow event this past Wednesday.  While I was not able to attend, there was a model unveiled of the mysterious and apparently secret design of the new medical school building. 

 

The model now sits in the main CC entrance hall/Sydell and Arnold family pavilion.  I took several pictures, and when I have a chance will try to upload them. 

No huge surprise.  Will be very sleek and glassy, thin protruding roof, with some maybe late 60's-esque looking insets at the entrances. 

 

The interior appears to be a huge commons area with a vast center skylight spanning the extent of the building (on the model they have this open, which had many wondering if it was an architectural feature.  It appears the interior is open and steps down to this center atrium which would keep with the clinic building model of allowing natural light to enter spaces. 

The side of the building opposite the Clinic "grand entrance mall" appears will be green space with likely another similar sized building facing this.

 

This is way behind schedule, and they only very recently had the parking lots vacated on part of this property where construction would take place.  So it appears things will be moving forward very soon.       

   

http://my.clevelandclinic.org/about-cleveland-clinic/events/ideas-for-tomorrow

Wow, just wow to that photo of 1970's/80's Euclid Avenue.  I agree with TBideon.  I'm speechless.

^^Thanks for the update, willyboy!  I'd love to see those photos.  Hopefully Litt posts something with the designs.

http://www.mtsinaifoundation.org/annual2013/

the starbucks location is meant to be out of convenience for their caregivers, visitors, patients, families,loved ones, etc. and not for the general public. 

 

they are not your typical business looking to invite or encourage people to visit, they are all about trying to make things easier at a difficult time for people that would rather not be there.

 

also, as for demanding more out of our civic institutions, I am not sure how much more we could ask.  They provide nearly $1B in community benefit.  A lot of that in the form of healthcare treatment from ER visits from the uninsured.

 

http://my.clevelandclinic.org/ccf/media/Files/About-Cleveland-Clinic/overview/state-of-the-clinic-2013.pdf

 

 

Pretty much my take, and I'm a big non-fan of the way CC does a lot of the little things. 

 

Of course, having Winston Willis and his ilk as neighbors provided one hell of an incentive to turn inward.  CWRU's South Campus did the same thing.

In hindsight I'd rather have Winston Willis as a neighbor than the Cleveland Clinic.

Looks like over half of that building is empty space.

Looks like over half of that building is empty space.

I thought the same.  Kind of looks like an airport to me. 

Looks like over half of that building is empty space.

I thought the same.  Kind of looks like an airport to me. 

 

The inside reminds me of the atrium at the Cleveland Museum of Art.

^Definitely CMA-like, just not quite as sexy -- no curves and no 1916 Building.

Here is an article about the Medical School by Steven Litt. 

I can’t tell if it is supposed to span the block between Euclid and Chester or not.  It never appears long enough, yet the article seems to indicate it would (I would hope so).

 

He mentions the CMA like similarities with the atrium.

 

The pics that Dave posted from the Mt. Sinai site make it look especially blocky, but the model certainly doesn’t appear quite so.   

 

Cleveland Clinic and CWRU release most detailed plans yet for new Health Education Center, aiming to break ground in spring

 

[email protected]://www.cleveland.com/architecture/index.ssf/2014/11/cleveland_clinic_and_cwru_rele.html#incart_river

 

^ Slides 8 and 10 accompanying the Litt article illustrate the building occupying the entire Euclid to Chester block ^

From case.edu:

 

Case Western Reserve and Cleveland Clinic expand education campus to include dentistry and nursing

November 25, 2014

 

Case Western Reserve University and Cleveland Clinic are expanding their health education collaboration to include dental and nursing students on the campus already planned for the institutions’ medical students.

 

The news comes as the university and hospital system submitted designs and renderings for the 485,000-square-foot quadrangle building to the Cleveland City Planning Commission in advance of meetings next week. The world-renowned architecture firm Foster + Partners designed the Health Education Campus to stand on the same 11-acre parcel originally designated for the medical education building. Located on East 93rd Street between Euclid and Chester Avenues, it will include even more of the cutting-edge technology and innovative learning spaces previously planned for medical education.

 

“Studies show that team-based health care improves patients’ experiences and results, lowers costs, and increases the job satisfaction of those involved in care,” Case Western Reserve President Barbara R. Snyder said. “Yet most of our education programs still separate the professions throughout students’ academic careers. This project allows us to bring these future health care leaders together from the very start, and to do so in a thoughtful and intentional way.”

 

http://thedaily.case.edu/news/?p=34711

I think the design for the Health Education Campus is beautiful. How will you not be inspired to attend class there every day. This willl position Case at the forefront of med schools. An incredible recruitment tool. Understand this project started at a modest 80k sq ft and 100m. It is now a true campus at over 400k sq ft and 250m dollars. With upper chester and this project that area is going thru a huge transformation.

I think the design for the Health Education Campus is beautiful. How will you not be inspired to attend class there every day. This willl position Case at the forefront of med schools. An incredible recruitment tool. Understand this project started at a modest 80k sq ft and 100m. It is now a true campus at over 400k sq ft and 250m dollars. With upper chester and this project that area is going thru a huge transformation.

 

IDK Tinkham Veale is no incentive for me to drag myself outta bed, but it's not exactly a great building. That's kinda off topic on my part, though. :p

Cleveland Clinic will get a lot of press for combining the four schools (CWRU, Lerner College of Medicine, the nursing school, and the dentist school) under one roof.  Per Lord Foster, the central atrium is designed to bring students from the four schools together in a common space that will feature a cafeteria and spaces to study.  There are no other buildings for medical education like it in the country, that I am aware of, and may well start a nationwide trend.  Accompanying that positive press will be these gorgeous renderings.  I think it is going to bring a lot of positive notoriety to Cleveland and further the narrative about the city as a center for health care excellence.

 

For me, the building is reminiscent of Frank Lloyd Wright's prairie style with that overhanging roof, except on a monumental scale. I was at the Ideas for Tomorrow presentation and the model makes it clear just how big this building is.  If you pay attention to the people in the renderings, this building is clearly over 4 stories tall, yet still has an inviting exterior.  At least in the world of medical education, I think it is going to be huge.

Thanks for posting the pic ofthe model and welcome aboard

 

 

CC-CWRU Health Education Center and masterplan MASSINGS galore!

 

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/drcagenda/2014/12052014/index.php

 

City Planning Commission

Agenda for December 5, 2014

 

EUCLID CORRIDOR DESIGN REVIEW

1. EC2014-037 - Health Education Campus/CWRU Medical School at Cleveland Clinic New Construction

Project Address: 9501 Euclid Avenue

Project Representatives: Brian Smith, Cleveland Clinic

                                    Phil LiBassi, Westlake Reed Leskosky

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

grrr...so the original clinic building is not good enough to leave standing?  No appreciation of heritage??

Oh great plan. Several blocks full of blocks. How original!  :|

^Those are just the most basic of massing blocks. I wouldn't put any thought into their design/shape as they are just representative at this point.