Interesting to note that a lot of property appears to be fast tracked from VBML to Nuisance Hearing in 2009 in the very neighborhoods the city is 'targeting" as part of their program..

 

I am pretty familiar with the process myself having worked in the Historic presevation field  for 20 plus years and dealt with grants, funding, sitting on several neighborhood and community development boards and dealing with section 106 review in several states. Over that time I watched more than one city official dragged off to federal prison over the years too.

 

The facts are the city is escalating its Demolition activities and have essentially embraced the failed "Detroit Model" of urban renewal, a model largely abandoned by every forward thinking city and planner in this country. The biggest problem I see is a historic Preservation Community who is afraid to challenge the 'good ole boy' city government on Preservation issues. Perhaps why we are losing hundreds of property to demolition every year.

 

You do not see 100-150 yr old houses being demoed on an almost daily basis in most major cities anymore. In fact, it practically takes an act of congress with the outcry from the public and preservaytion community.

 

We do not need demolitions, we need facade grants, paint up /fix up funds, development incentives to bring more Out of State preservation minded people INTO Cincinnati and live here. The reason OTR  and other Urban neighborhoods struggles and Newport/Covington are turning around solely lies with Cincinnati Government who does nothing but throw up roadblocks and red tape while keeping local demo contractors nicely employed.

The reason OTR  and other Urban neighborhoods struggles and Newport/Covington are turning around solely lies with Cincinnati Government who does nothing but throw up roadblocks and red tape while keeping local demo contractors nicely employed.

 

I believe it has more to do with economics.  This is why historic neighborhoods all over Cincinnati are well preserved, invested in, and occupied.  It's the same reason why the downtown areas of Newport and Covington have done better over the past decade or so.  Those neighborhoods are all desirable and there are enough people and businesses with the money to invest there.

 

This has historically not been the case with OTR, and is the reason why East Walnut Hills is very well off and Walnut Hills is not.  Incentives are great, but can only do so much.  I don't care how big the incentive is to restore historic properties in a certain area if there is no one who wants to live or work there.  The City is starting to get what it will take to restore OTR, but we still need to figure out what it will take for the other 8-10 neighborhoods out there that aren't seeing much positive movement lately.

 

Maybe we should look to the dozen or so historic neighborhoods that have been successfully preserved, maybe we should look elsewhere, but the important thing is that we look at this from more than an insider's perspective about VBML, Nuisance Hearings, and the always popular "corrupt politicians."  I honestly don't think these tactics will get our cause very far.

Good points Rando.  Look at successful areas and try to encourage some of those people to invest in OTR.

 

When Dayton's Oregon District starting turning around from a wasteland of nasty bars, empty historic buildings and crime, it was led by a small coterie of mostly affluent, society and preservation types.  I wonder how many of those types in Cincinnati would try to bring back OTR if they were given a great pitch.  I have a feeling many more than anyone in the Queen City thinks.

Rando,

Having lived in Charleston SC, Louisville Ky, Indianapolis IN and San Francisco , personally restored over 20 properties, worked as consultant on hundreds of other in 15 or so states, sat on Zoning and planning boards, Preservation commissions,  President of half a dozen neighborhood associations and board member of dozens, and Co-moderate a national group dedicated to the study of historic architecture in the last 20 plus years, I look at this issue from the perspective of someone whose actually been doing it. Someone who is willing to get his hands dirty doing restoration.

 

Preservation is not a "Intellectual pursuit" for me, nor am I interested in any "consulting contracts " with the city.

 

I talk to real preservationists and old house people every day who have nothing but an acute sense of frustration with the way this city throws roadblocks at restoration. I know people willing to buy in OTR and other Urban Neighorhoods right now but they are not prepared to deal with a bunch of red tape that is so "over the top" compared to every major city I have ever worked in, as to be impossible to navigate.

 

Streetcars are "nice" but they will not result in the turnaround of OTR, they are a 'small' incentive, but that incentive means nothing if you have to deal with city officials who have no clue about historic preservation, or restoration.

 

If you only knew how things work in the rest of the country you might 'get' how bad Cincinnati's process is.

 

I know, let me find you a nice 10-15 grand condemned property in OTR and you will quickly see how impossible it is to restore. When people are on this board are telling you story after story of problems, its time to wake up and smell the coffee. It will take you 6-8 months of constant battles just to start restoration and the city will want it done faster than you could ever do it. Unless you are doing a quick slap-it-together loft conversion that will fall apart in a few years. You will have a very interesting new 'blog' about your experience and I bet your perspective will change dramatically when you have to actually deal with it.

 

My goal is to save neighborhoods and architecture and I deal with clients day after day who buy property here with good intentions only to be treated like criminals by the city, bogged down in senseless regualtion and find themselves in an uphill battle to SAVE and restore a house.

 

It shouldn't be that way. Our "Cause" is not served by not calling out the city on the way they run things!

Having lived in Charleston SC, Louisville Ky, Indianapolis IN and San Francisco , personally restored over 20 properties, worked as consultant on hundreds of other in 15 or so states, sat on Zoning and planning boards, Preservation commissions,  President of half a dozen neighborhood associations and board member of dozens, and Co-moderate a national group dedicated to the study of historic architecture in the last 20 plus years.

 

Why do you feel the need to preface just about every one of your extended responses with an abstract of your resume?

 

If you only knew how things work in the rest of the country you might 'get' how bad Cincinnati's process is.

 

You don't know me personally or professionally, so please don't make assumptions as if you do.

 

When people are on this board are telling you story after story of problems, its time to wake up and smell the coffee.

 

Oh, I'm aware of the problems.  My point has been, and will continue to be, that your approach will probably not serve you best.  I understand that you've been working in the biz for sometime now, but you're not the only professional on this forum with an opinion on this matter.

 

This isn't the 70's or 80's anymore. Chaining yourself to a building or threatening local politicians probably won't get you very far.  You seem to disagree with me and that's fine.  Go about your way, but I'm just trying to offer you advice based on my professional experience and knowledge.  But don't assume that I'm ignorant or not willing to stand up for the issue just because our approaches may be different.

The fact remains that almost every other day, another property is demolished by the City of Cincinnati.

Yes, lets work together to fix the systemic problem in place.

From reading all of the posts in this thread it is evident that we are all in agreement that too many historic structures in Cincinnati are being demolished than any of us are comfortable with. The City's demo "problem" keeps getting cited but is not being countered with enough constructive creative solutions being offered. Cincinnati is being compared, favorably or unfavorably, with many other cities, but the solution(s) for reducing the number of historically or architecturally significant structures being demolished have to originate locally and be uniquely tailored for Cincinnati. In other words, what may work well in Baltimore or Charleston, may not work in Cincinnati because of local economic realities, demographics, and the unique urban fabric of the Queen City. Then there's the long history in the City of using demolition as a revitalization tool. In 1893, local author Daniel Kenny wrote a City guide and among the sponsoring local businesses were "house wreckers" and construction companies offering demolition services. Another guide from the City's bicentennial in 1988 also had a major demolition contractor as a prominent sponsor. Some demolition is inevitable and it is unrealistic to think every old structure can or will be saved no matter how sympathetic (or not) local government officials may be towards historic preservation.

 

While we are comparing cities, thank heavens Cincinnati is not like Flint, Michigan, which arguably has one of the most aggressive blight abatement programs in the country: www.telegraph.co.uk/.../US-cities-may-have-to-be-bulldozed-in-order-to-survive.html In this case, Flint city officials have made a conscious decision to permanently downsize. Getting rid of the old and obsolete is as American as apple pie while saving and restoring older structures is a relatively new concept. As has already been stated, Cincinnati is certainly not the worst offender in the number of demolitions, but still has too many important structures being razed.

 

Cincinnati does have examples of city-owned properties being sold to individuals for a token amount. (292 McGregor in Mt. Auburn comes to mind) However, while demolition always accomplishes it's intended purpose, (to remove a structure from a piece of land) the City's history of putting problem properties in individual's hands to ensure rehabilitation is spotty at best. In other words, its difficult for the City to look today for alternatives to demolition when those alternative experiments have failed in the past.

 

Using the aforementioned example of the McGregor Avenue residence, the city deeded the property to an individual for a dollar and then, without explanation, did not follow up to see if the new owner complied with the terms of the sale. Not surprisingly, since the owner did nothing with the property for two years, the city now has the property back on the demo list. It didn't have to be that way. If alternatives to demolition are to work in Cincinnati, there has to be some kind of follow up and meeting of contractural obligations. Otherwise, why bother trying an alternative approach?

 

Perhaps the record showing a lack of fulfilling promises made in the past has lessened the appeal of alternatives to demolition for the City. Regardless of our personal opinions, the City apparently puts a low priority on saving problem historic properties. With the current budget and staffing shortfalls, expecting the City to somehow set up a new bureaucracy to steer problem historic properties towards new caring owners, is unrealistic.

 

Ideally, there would be a local organization (CPA?) with the authority to receive problem (historic) properties from the city and then enter into contractural agreements with new owners to rehabilitate them. Working closely with the city to insure strict compliance with these agreements, it would be a win/win situation for everyone. For those historic properties slated for demolition without interested buyers, it should become mandatory to deconstruct and recycle as much as is feasible. The local organization could then use the sale of salvaged materials to help fund the alternatives-to-demolition programs. In short, maybe working with and within the existing system to find pragmatic alternatives to demolition is preferable to a confrontational "us vs them" approach. Only when it is shown that alternatives to demolition really work in Cincinnati will City officials ever seriously consider them. Currently there is nothing in the track record to make that choice an easy one. There wouldn't be such an aggressive code enforcement policy in place if there hadn't been so many problems with neglected properties in the past. Maybe it's time to help the city change its building nuisance policy by providing realistic solutions, not just criticism.

Very well said John S. 

 

First, we must all get on the same page on one important point:

 

Does Cincinnati want to preserve the largest, most intact historic district in the country and save it for generations to come?  Does it want to have a truly historic district on par with those of New Orleans and Charleston?

 

The "we" who must answer the question includes the Enquirer (yes), 3CDC (yes), CPA (yes), OTR Foundation (yes), and the city administration/residents (not totally on board yet, ugh).

If you want to see the prime example of the city ending up in a prime clustercuss between Demo and Rehad - Lincoln Avenue on the border between Evanston, Mt. Auburn, and I guess Avondale would #1.

I think the OTR Foundation has a pretty good program that they just started that seems at face value both unique and productive.

 

See here:

http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2010/01/11/story7.html

I think the OTR Foundation has a pretty good program that they just started that seems at face value both unique and productive.

 

This could potentially be a case of mis-matched owners and home. While the energies of newly wed youth will go a long way, this particular structure needs massive amounts of work and money to bring it back. For inexperienced first time homebuyers, the enormity of it all may quickly overwhelm them. I do hope the logistics and matching the new owners' resources with the needs of the structure were carefully considered when the decision to grant them the house was made. I also hope that a strict follow-up and review procedure is in place so the OTR foundation can intervene immediately if problems develop. It would neither benefit the historic house nor the young couple if they had the place completely gutted and then ran out of funds or the enthusiasm to continue. They would end up broke and discouraged while the house would then be fast-tracked to demolition. The city could then point to this example to bolster their argument that demolition is the best course of action.

 

Preservationists sometimes overlook basic realities when rushing against time constraints to rescue an endangered structure and will choose to give a house or building to someone who is unqualified to take on a project of that magnitude.  I know of one endangered house example when I lived in Missouri that was given by a local preservation organization to a demolition business owner (!?) who predictably, after taking out all of the good salvage, decided it was too expensive to save and quietly went down to City Hall to take out a demo permit. The City immediately notified the preservation organization which had to go to court to take the gutted house back. The demo business owner had his lawyer write language into the contract that allowed him to skip out on his $50k performance bond and soon skipped town. Now, almost 5 years later, the shell of the house sits vacant and abandoned with eventual demolition almost certain.

 

The number of people with the knowledge, experience, and funds to rehab or restore a badly deteriorated historic home are few in number and most have their hands full these days. I truly wish this young couple the very best in their efforts and hope they are up to the task. If they are successful, they should receive all of the tax breaks and preservation award recognition they deserve. Bringing a badly deteriorated house back is not for the faint of heart or shallow of pocket.

The number of people with the knowledge, experience, and funds to rehab or restore a badly deteriorated historic home are few in number and most have their hands full these days.

 

In your opinion do you think there are enough qualified people in the Cincinnati metro to be able to successfully restore all of our historic buildings?

All of the remaining buildings at Herald/Montgomery in Norwood are being prepped for demolition in the next day or two.

If you want to see the prime example of the city ending up in a prime clustercuss between Demo and Rehab - Lincoln Avenue on the border between Evanston, Mt. Auburn, and I guess Avondale would #1.

 

You're probably talking about the row of Victorian brick townhomes on the north side of the 800 block of Lincoln before you reach (going east) to Gilbert Avenue? These are an example of a city-funded preservation boondoggle as a result of poor project management and lack of follow-up. The city has successfully sold a few of these properties (after years in limbo) but some remain abandoned and boarded up. It is sometimes held up as an example of why the city should not be involved in the rehab of historic buildings.

 

The rehabilitation of historic homes and buildings is far more complex than new construction and requires a far higher degree of oversight and follow-up. Old buildings and houses ALWAYS have unexpected problems that often become evident well into the project. While some are fairly easy affordable fixes, others can quickly mushroom to epic proportions and turn a decent budget into comical fiction in no time. Ideally, a local preservation organization with strong construction management skills would administer or oversee such city backed projects. Rehabbers and restorers of these projects should not receive any perks such as grants or tax breaks until the project is completed and signed off by all involved parties. That would do a lot to cut down on the number of half-finished abandoned rehab projects around town. Every time such an enterprise to rehab an old structure fails, it is a mark against saving any others. Better to salvage and demo a badly deteriorated structure than put it in the hands of someone doomed to failure. Given all the unknown risks in rehabbing an old house or building, its almost miraculous that any get saved. 

XUMelanie and I love our current place in the American Building, but some day we figure we'll need a little bit more space.  As such, we have started getting information on whether or not it would be feasible to fix up a property in OTR (still in the exploratory phase).  We're talking with experts in the neighborhood and seeing what we could realistically do and what is available.  Of course, we are computer programmers by trade, so obviously we'll need to do a great deal of due diligence along with working closely with professionals to do the structural analysis, design, etc....  I have the same concerns of John S. on whether or not we could actually pull it off given our background, but we're committed to at least try.  We love living in Downtown/OTR and can't imagine going back to the suburbs with low walkability, mediocre public transit and quiet boredom.  It seems like now is the time to get things moving on a place we'd prefer to call home in case later we are priced out of our own neighborhood.

The number of people with the knowledge, experience, and funds to rehab or restore a badly deteriorated historic home are few in number and most have their hands full these days.

In your opinion do you think there are enough qualified people in the Cincinnati metro to be able to successfully restore all of our historic buildings?

 

To answer your question in one word, no. The preservation picture in Cincinnati is complex and has many sides to it. Restoration construction is similar in costs to new construction and the dollar amount required to rehab a large area like the OTR would probably eclipse the Banks project. The harsh reality is that Cincinnati's rates of growth and investment are far too low currently to save a majority of its historic architecture. In places like the OTR, we can hope the current pace of investment and redevelopment continues. In the end, we may (hopefully) have a future OTR with only a small number of building losses beyond today. That is a best case, pie-in-the-sky, rose colored glasses scenario where everything works out optimally. But the OTR is but a small fraction of Cincinnati's architectural treasures. What about neighborhoods like Evanston, Walnut Hills, Westwood, Fairmount, Avondale? There may be some brave souls willing to urban pioneer and make some investments there but by the time such areas become attractive to investors again, doubtful much of the old architecture will be around. So many homes in these areas are marginal that only a massive program of incentives and investment could save what remains. I personally proposed a federally funded jobs training program for disadvantaged and unskilled urban youth (which I referred to as The Restoration Corps or Restore America) in restoration and rehabilitation skills so they could reclaim their neighborhoods and sent this proposal to the then president-elect Obama. I recieved a form email thank you and that was all. Regardless, it would take the resources of the federal government to tackle a city-wide rehab program for a city the size of Cincinnati. While the feds are happy to hand over money for demolitions they do not seem to be as eager to help save neighborhoods. We can remain hopeful...

There are not enough preservationists in Cincinnati  with the skillset to restore one neighborhood much less them all, that is a reality we have to face.

 

The cities that have been sucessful in their renovation efforts have done so largely by bringing in more "preservation minded' people to their city.

 

San Franciso did a remarkable job at marketing their Painted Lady Victorian Architecture and people moved there from all across the country. Today they have a sucessful 'guild' or craftspersons with the ability to restore just about any high end home. The preservation movement has moved from the grand stick victorians (which no one can afford now) to later craftsman era homes in outlying areas of the city.

 

It is often "disaster' that brings people to restoration. Charelston owes its success today to the many who came in after Hugo to restore. In fact neighborhoods the locals had not paid much attention to became active enclaves of restorations.

 

Same with New Orleans after Katrina , there was a ground swell of support by the local presrvatuion community to save as much as possible.

 

Cincinnati will nor be restored from within but rather from those who choose to come here. In actuallity the timing is right for Cincinnati if it can market itself to the preservation marketplace. Several midwestern and southern cities are esstentially restored. For example almost all of Urban Indianapolis is restored, Old Louisville also enjoys a high percentage of restoration although there is still work to do in the west end of that city. Atlanta and Savannah's Urban  Neighborhoods are largely redone.

 

My point is there are parts of the country where the "Urban Pioneering' efforts of the 1970s-80s-90s have paid off. Those people now find themselves in restored , dare I say it, 'gentrified' neighorhoods and miss their old "Pioneering days".

 

Whether or not you like the term "Urban Pioneering"  the fact is Cincinnati has that appeal. Fantastic architecture, run down- dirt cheap property, and low propery taxes.

 

The problem is, that few people know Cincinnati has these treasures. I was in the middle of a multi state search for the right city to restore in and move our business to since Indy's downtown and Urban Neighborhoods are essentially done. I was looking at Missouri, Ilinois. Kentucky and alot of different cities but Cincinnati was totally off my radar.

 

It was an article in Preservation Magazine on Over the Rhine that caused me to take a look. The first trip convinced me Cincinnati was where we needed to be.

 

We NEED to actively promote the Preservation opportunities here. I firmly believe people will come to Cincinnati, IF, they know what it has to offer architecturally.

Cincinnati will nor be restored from within but rather from those who choose to come here. In actuallity the timing is right for Cincinnati if it can market itself to the preservation marketplace. Several midwestern and southern cities are esstentially restored. For example almost all of Urban Indianapolis is restored, Old Louisville also enjoys a high percentage of restoration although there is still work to do in the west end of that city. Atlanta and Savannah's Urban Neighborhoods are largely redone.

 

My point is there are parts of the country where the "Urban Pioneering' efforts of the 1970s-80s-90s have paid off. Those people now find themselves in restored , dare I say it, 'gentrified' neighorhoods and miss their old "Pioneering days".

 

Whether or not you like the term "Urban Pioneering" the fact is Cincinnati has that appeal. Fantastic architecture, run down- dirt cheap property, and low propery taxes.

 

The problem is, that few people know Cincinnati has these treasures. I was in the middle of a multi state search for the right city to restore in and move our business to since Indy's downtown and Urban Neighborhoods are essentially done. I was looking at Missouri, Ilinois. Kentucky and alot of different cities but Cincinnati was totally off my radar.

 

It was an article in Preservation Magazine on Over the Rhine that caused me to take a look. The first trip convinced me Cincinnati was where we needed to be.

 

We NEED to actively promote the Preservation opportunities here. I firmly believe people will come to Cincinnati, IF, they know what it has to offer architecturally.

 

Promotion, PR, word of mouth, buzz.  That's all OTR/Cincinnati needs since it has the best opportunity in America to restore a huge historic district.  Since Cincinnati can't do it alone, we need to inform others of the possibilities here.

Doing my best...

 

www.UrbanCincy.com [search "Over-the-Rhine"]

Doing my best...

 

www.UrbanCincy.com [search "Over-the-Rhine"]

 

:clap: Over the past couple of years, I've read with interest your well-written Urban Cincy blog and many of your posted messages on U.O.. If only everyone who cares about the future of Cincinnati would put in as much time and energy as you do, we might not need a Cincinnati demolition thread on the forum. Please don't give up or feel your efforts are unappreciated, they certainly are, and I sincerely thank you. We need more people who care and are willing to make an effort. I'm a Cincinnatian-in-waiting; the only thing keeping my spouse and I from being there is the sale of our home. (in Texas) Otherwise, I could not relocate to Cincinnati soon enough.

XUMelanie and I love our current place in the American Building, but some day we figure we'll need a little bit more space. As such, we have started getting information on whether or not it would be feasible to fix up a property in OTR (still in the exploratory phase). We're talking with experts in the neighborhood and seeing what we could realistically do and what is available. Of course, we are computer programmers by trade, so obviously we'll need to do a great deal of due diligence along with working closely with professionals to do the structural analysis, design, etc.... I have the same concerns of John S. on whether or not we could actually pull it off given our background, but we're committed to at least try. We love living in Downtown/OTR and can't imagine going back to the suburbs with low walkability, mediocre public transit and quiet boredom. It seems like now is the time to get things moving on a place we'd prefer to call home in case later we are priced out of our own neighborhood.

 

Yours is not a unique situation. Many people's "first exposure" to urban living is via a condo. But many 'outgrow' that when families come along. I think there are many opportunities in OTR but I woudl suggest you look at something "livable' which is not impossible to find.

 

Taking on a 'blown out' building is something best left to professionals or 'serial restorationists'. The costs are very high when you start contracting out a buildout. Real world costs are anywhere from 100-175.00 a square foot. More if you are doing a "period restoration'. Most people even the 'restoration challenged' who have never done anything before often find they do have abilities and skills they did not know they have, which can bring down those cost. But if you are just writing checks I strongly suggest renting the movie "Money Pit", Restoration puts a strain on the best relationships.

 

There are good houses in Pendleton Arts, Betts Longworth and Dayton street that might be a good 'first home' for you. Often we are talking good livable spaces that probably need updating of kitchens and bath to former single family homes that can easily be converted back.

 

But you predicament points to what I believe will be growing trend. People typically do not stay in condos and if OTR and the Downtown are to be sucessfull, developers and builders need to start thinking about the single family home component in OTR.

 

Many popular downtown in cities are suffering from "Condo Glut" with several year supplies of condos. I personally worry that OTR may be reaching condo glut. The Banks Project will clearly compete with OTR as do projects in Newport and Covington.

 

1800-3500 square foot single family homes will be eventually desirable in OTR even the 4-6000 luxury homes will be in demand due to the different socio economic levels that will come to OTR.

Is there any sure fire way to get in touch with those in the preservation marketplace?  The reason I ask is because I would be interested in putting together some promotional material and working on an effort to do just that.

^Love to hear you say that Rando.

 

Once I get my new laptop, I'm going to start an OTR/preservation blog.

Is there any sure fire way to get in touch with those in the preservation marketplace? The reason I ask is because I would be interested in putting together some promotional material and working on an effort to do just that.

 

I think this is greatly needed.  Seems like the CPA should be leading such an effort, but a more internet savvy person like you would probably be more effective.  I am planning a more professional web presence and would like to be any such list.

 

Also, knowing bfwissel's backround, I would  agree with PresRestCons that a currently occupied structure that need kitchen upgrades etc,. would be a better fit rather than a shell.  There are plenty of both kinds to go around, it just depends how close to CBD you want to be and how much space you need.

The Cincinnati Enquirer did a piece today on our Federal Complaint to HUD regarding the section 106 review process and the lack of input from neighborhood groups and the Preservation Community:

 

 

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20100201/NEWS0108/2010306/1055/NEWS/Group++City+demolishing+historic+homes

 

I urge you to take the time to read the article but more importantly comment in the comments section. By keeping this issue in the news, not only as preservation issue but as a matter of fiscal responsibility. We can put some pressure on the council to make sure that city inspections and city conservation operate in a more open manner. Also let yoyur preservation minded friends know about this as it impacts every neighborhood in Cincinnati.

Congrats. It sometimes takes these legal matters to get the city to abide by federal guidelines and law, as well as state guidelines and law. Let's hold Cincinnati accountable for this.

Good article.

Building 701 - designed by noted Detriot industrialist architect Albert Kahn. Few other Kahn buildings survive in Ohio.

 

http://picasaweb.google.com/CPAcoordinator/GEBuilding701Demolition?feat=directlink#

There are not enough preservationists in Cincinnati with the skillset to restore one neighborhood much less them all, that is a reality we have to face.

 

The cities that have been sucessful in their renovation efforts have done so largely by bringing in more "preservation minded' people to their city.

 

San Franciso did a remarkable job at marketing their Painted Lady Victorian Architecture and people moved there from all across the country. Today they have a sucessful 'guild' or craftspersons with the ability to restore just about any high end home. The preservation movement has moved from the grand stick victorians (which no one can afford now) to later craftsman era homes in outlying areas of the city.

 

It is often "disaster' that brings people to restoration. Charelston owes its success today to the many who came in after Hugo to restore. In fact neighborhoods the locals had not paid much attention to became active enclaves of restorations.

 

Same with New Orleans after Katrina , there was a ground swell of support by the local presrvatuion community to save as much as possible.

 

Cincinnati will nor be restored from within but rather from those who choose to come here. In actuallity the timing is right for Cincinnati if it can market itself to the preservation marketplace. Several midwestern and southern cities are esstentially restored. For example almost all of Urban Indianapolis is restored, Old Louisville also enjoys a high percentage of restoration although there is still work to do in the west end of that city. Atlanta and Savannah's Urban Neighborhoods are largely redone.

 

My point is there are parts of the country where the "Urban Pioneering' efforts of the 1970s-80s-90s have paid off. Those people now find themselves in restored , dare I say it, 'gentrified' neighorhoods and miss their old "Pioneering days".

 

Whether or not you like the term "Urban Pioneering" the fact is Cincinnati has that appeal. Fantastic architecture, run down- dirt cheap property, and low propery taxes.

 

The problem is, that few people know Cincinnati has these treasures. I was in the middle of a multi state search for the right city to restore in and move our business to since Indy's downtown and Urban Neighborhoods are essentially done. I was looking at Missouri, Ilinois. Kentucky and alot of different cities but Cincinnati was totally off my radar.

 

It was an article in Preservation Magazine on Over the Rhine that caused me to take a look. The first trip convinced me Cincinnati was where we needed to be.

 

We NEED to actively promote the Preservation opportunities here. I firmly believe people will come to Cincinnati, IF, they know what it has to offer architecturally.

 

 

This is statement is ON POINT!!!  It is only due to the sheer magnitude of still standing 1800's architecture in our great city that allows Cincinnati to vie for such a position on a national scale.  Despite our heavy losses in the Urban renewal days, we have so much left to restore due to the fact that we were still one of the largest cities in 1900.  The gaps between buildings is starting to become too prevalent, erasing cohesive neighborhoods and street walls.  Yet there is enough that Cincinnati could still easily recapture that oddly American/European mix that made it so great.  Now, the world of like-minded people needs to know we need their help to save what's left. 

 

 

These buildings will be gone next week:

Cleneay Avenue and Montgomery Road

Herald and Ledgewood Avenues (what remains of the houses)

Does anyone know a way that I can salvage some of the bricks from homes slated for demolition?  I only need a small number: about 200-300.  I'd really like to use salvaged materials for raised-bed plantings, and I don't really have a huge budget for purchasing them. 

 

Does Building Value sell salvaged bricks?  I don't recall from my visit that they did.

I'm not for sure about the Xavier demolitions, but I know that the items inside -- doors, trimmings, etc. are salvaged by an independent, local company -- not Building Value, though. I can find out who the contractor is, but it looks as if they are going to start on it in a day or two.

I just recieved the city DEMO LIST of recent "decisions' by our nuisance board staffed by the supervisors of the inspectors bringing the complaints. Most of these houses have NO MAJOR ISSUES. Two properties of note: 24 Elder in Over the Rhine and 512 Prospect Place a one of kind towered Italianate mansion in Avondale. 512 Prospect would be an easy candidate for National registry nomination.

 

Anybody want to start a petition asking the council to replace the Nuisance Board? Since its a clear conflict of interest issue of having the supervisors of the inspectors running the Nuisance Board? Does the council EVEN CARE how inappropraiate and potenially illegal this is? Maybe we should ask the State Attorney Generals office about it?

 

3551 POTOMAC AV - Book-Plat-Parcel 0042-0005-0028.

3546 VAN ANTWERP PL - Book-Plat-Parcel 0112-0006-0016.

546 PROSPECT PL - Book-Plat-Parcel 0107-0008-0005.

3573 GLENWOOD PL - Book-Plat-Parcel 0108-0001-0115.

3620 BORDEN ST - Book-Plat-Parcel 0193-0004-0089.

1647 CALIFORNIA AV - Book-Plat-Parcel 0117-0005-0221.

1411 RYLAND AV - Book-Plat-Parcel 0117-0006-0051.

717 RIDGEWAY AV - Book-Plat-Parcel 0105-0002-0030.

1794 ESMONDE ST - Book-Plat-Parcel 0205-0021-0056.

830 BLAIR AV - Book-Plat-Parcel 0107-0010-0089.

1136 BEECH AV - Book-Plat-Parcel 0174-0006-0057.

1140 BEECH AV - Book-Plat-Parcel 0174-0006-0056.

1964 HORTON ST - Book-Plat-Parcel 0203-0025-0126.

2735 FABER AV - Book-Plat-Parcel 0207-0053-0008.

4042 COLERAIN AV - Book-Plat-Parcel 0194-0012-0018.

1228 DEWEY AV - Book-Plat-Parcel 0179-0074-0108.

1265 ILIFF AV - Book-Plat-Parcel 0179-0074-0199.

1553 KNOX ST - Book-Plat-Parcel 0202-0032-0176.

1916 MONTROSE ST - Book-Plat-Parcel 0203-0026-0038.

3315 HACKBERRY ST - Book-Plat-Parcel 0054-0005-0032.

1705 ESMONDE ST - Book-Plat-Parcel 0170-0009-0173.

2041 QUEEN CITY AV - Book-Plat-Parcel 0205-0024-0067.

24 W ELDER ST - Book-Plat-Parcel 0094-0008-0325.

743 E MCMILLAN ST - Book-Plat-Parcel 0068-0003-0158.

3082 BEEKMAN ST - Book-Plat-Parcel 0201-0042-0007.

2730 COY ST - Book-Plat-Parcel 0098-0004-0117.

3060 BEEKMAN ST - Book-Plat-Parcel 0201-0038-0072.

5704 ADELPHI ST - Book-Plat-Parcel 0037-0001-0037.

3058 KERPER AV - Book-Plat-Parcel 0060-0005-0011.

4829 EBERSOLE AV - Book-Plat-Parcel 0036-0002-0149.

2046 QUEEN CITY AV - Book-Plat-Parcel 0205-0024-0062.

3537 GLENWAY AV - Book-Plat-Parcel 0174-0008-0021.

3622 IDLEWILD AV - Book-Plat-Parcel 0059-0006-0008.

1908 HEWITT AV - Book-Plat-Parcel 0054-0004-0127.

3241 FAIRFIELD AV - Book-Plat-Parcel 0054-0005-0079.

4032 COLERAIN AV - Book-Plat-Parcel 0194-0012-0042.

 

Are these updated on a web-site, or how are you finding out about these? I wouldn't mind starting up a "Demolition Watch" on Abandoned, just to capture these properties before they are wiped out for whatever reason. Because, we know that many of these are salvageable, and making this public is one of the ways that we can turn this situation around.

I had to basically threathen to take legal action  to get notification emails from the city. Contact Ed Cunningham and 'formally request' to be added to the community notification email list as an 'interested party".

 

They probably will not want to add you so you may want to reference the Ohio sunshine law as it pertains to notification of public hearings. Might want to cc a couple of councilmen and the mayor on the email request.

 

The city has upped these hearings to twice a month.

I've long noticed 24 Elder Street, and some of the adjacent buildings on the north side of Elder between Race and Vine.  The owner is unreachable and the taxes have not been paid for over five years.  What I don't understand is why it hasn't gone for sherriff's auction.  Does anyone know what triggers the auction?  I have never been clear on this.

I've long noticed 24 Elder Street, and some of the adjacent buildings on the north side of Elder between Race and Vine. The owner is unreachable and the taxes have not been paid for over five years. What I don't understand is why it hasn't gone for sherriff's auction.   Does anyone know what triggers the auction? I have never been clear on this.

 

Taxes that are unpaid following the Second Half (June) tax collection period are advertised as delinquent in November  and are eligible for tax certificate sale in October of the following year. If you have unpaid taxes and your property has  been advertised, a tax lien certificate may be sold on your property.

 

All eligible liens will be auctioned as a single block. The county does not sell individual  tax lien certificates. As in all Ohio counties selling tax certificates, the bulk sale or auction of tax  certificates in Hamilton County is not designed for individual investors. per the trasurers website:

http://www.hamilton-co.org/treasurer/TaxLien2.html

 

Probably most "institutional investors" dont want the risk associated with buying large blocks of property. Its STUPID way to do this.  Probably why property sits forever!

 

 

 

 

 

My curiousity got the best of me and I looked on the auditor's site for info and pictures on some of these properties. Appalling!

 

1647 California, Bond Hill, C. 1900 brick 2 & 1/2 story Colonial Revival with prominent Palladian window in gable, looks intact, unaltered, and in good repair. (maybe a recent fire? otherwise it makes zero sense to demo)

 

717 Ridgeway, Avondale, Queen Anne C. 1898 Unusual design...

 

1136 Beech, West Price Hill, 1880's Italianate but altered with vinyl siding

 

1140 Beech West Price Hill, large (3,500 sq. ft.) Second Empire, 1870's-1880's 3 story original slate, nice pedimented dormer but altered with vinyl siding. A major loss in this block for sure...

 

1265 Iliff West Price Hill, Queen Anne C. 1895

 

3315 Hackberry, Evanston, photos show house in excellent (and I do mean excellent) condition, C. 1900 Colonial Revival (maybe recent fire or something?) Neighboring house looks badly deteriorated-maybe wrong address?

 

3060 Beekman, Millvale neighborhood, C. 1880's Italianate, major altered and in poor condition in photo. This is the only house that might be justified to demo on this list. However, it does have 4 outstanding original Terra Cotta crenulated chimney pots.

 

3241 Fairfield, Evanston, Unbelieveable-obviously an architect designed but altered 1890's  Eclectic Queen Anne- has been vinylized and some windows inappropriately replaced. Was once a mansion.

 

In summary, collectively these are a whole block or more of Victorian era housing slated for demolition and this is about 1/2 of the list.  All the more reason why finding a way to slow down Cincinnati's "demolition derby" is essential. Too sad for any more words...

 

Somebody needs to stop Cincinnati's demolition derby before it's too late.  How many people are members of CPA, OTR Foundation?

From the posted list:

Regarding 24 Elder, obviously a CONTRIBUTING commercial structure for any future historic district designation. Ground floor has been altered somewhat but largely original and from C. 1870 according to auditor's site. 512 Prospect is a unique (and likely architect or plan book design) towered Italianate villa. I concur it would elegible individually for the National Register of Historic Places based on its surviving architectural details. In any other city, it would have local landmark status.

Every time I look at this thread, I just want to cry.

 

Such a downer...I can hardly bear thinking about it.

Somebody needs to stop Cincinnati's demolition derby before it's too late. How many people are members of CPA, OTR Foundation?

 

It doesn't matter despite their good intentions neither group has any political or legal clout. OTR has been trying to get the city to come to the table and their was some receptiveness BUT the city manager has ZERO intention of really changing anything major with city ordinance.

 

CPA may have some input IF the city returns the programatic agtreement with the state BUT whever anyone questions the CDBG monies spent for demo they Ed Cunningham claims they will use Cap improvemnet funds instead. I have asked for list of all property demoed in 2008 and 2009 and he has failed to provide it. If I don't a response soon he can talk to the AG's office about it or a Federal Court.

 

The ONLY way this will stop is if HUD does a full audit of Cincinnati CDBG funding and that will be dependent on how they respond to our complaint on the public input issue.

 

The city manager runs the town, not the council an I don't see anyone on that council 'growinga pair' to deal with thsi issue. MAYBE if they are looking at a Federal Audit and yanking of funds , maybe.

 

Until the city manager is FIRED and we get some people on the council who really care about preservation not much will change.

 

Hopefully the FEDS will come knocking Or the State Attorney General's office soon.

From the posted list:

Regarding 24 Elder, obviously a CONTRIBUTING commercial structure for any future historic district designation. Ground floor has been altered somewhat but largely original and from C. 1870 according to auditor's site. 512 Prospect is a unique (and likely architect or plan book design) towered Italianate villa. I concur it would elegible individually for the National Register of Historic Places based on its surviving architectural details. In any other city, it would have local landmark status.

 

I believe 24 Elder is a contributing structure for OTR District however the city can get around that by using Cap improvement funds. Peopl think OTR is protected but only protected if Federal dollars are used. THAT is the other problem we have ZERO input on how Cap improvment funds are used.

From my experience working in nine different cities in five different states, the things that Cincinnati is doing are not much different from anyone else.  I'm not saying it's right, but if everyone is allegedly abusing the system in the same way then how to you get HUD outraged over what is happening in Cincy with CDBG funding?

Does anyone know a way that I can salvage some of the bricks from homes slated for demolition?  I only need a small number: about 200-300.  I'd really like to use salvaged materials for raised-bed plantings, and I don't really have a huge budget for purchasing them. 

 

Does Building Value sell salvaged bricks?  I don't recall from my visit that they did.

 

THINK Demolition is doing the Xavier demolition at Montgomery and Clenay, not sure at Herald and Ledgewood yet.

 

Anyone see this article?

 

http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2009/10/19/story8.html

From my experience working in nine different cities in five different states, the things that Cincinnati is doing are not much different from anyone else. I'm not saying it's right, but if everyone is allegedly abusing the system in the same way then how to you get HUD outraged over what is happening in Cincy with CDBG funding?

 

Tulsa OK is looking at  perhaps having to repay 1.5 mil in CDBG funds because of irregular acquisitions and paperwork issues. All it takes someone to complain. HUD is a huge agency and they cant be everywhere. ut if they find fraud and irregualrities they do go after it based on my experience.

Between 2004-2006 , HUD has indicted 159 people on charges of false claims, bribery, fraudulent contracts, theft or embezzlement, and corruption in association with CDBG.

 

So they do go after corruption

 

General Electric's front building will be gone by this time next week.  It's a shame, the old sign was really cool.