February 5, 201015 yr Do you have any proof of corruption in Cincinnati's government, and if so, what? If you know and don't want to share for legal reasons I understand, but I just want to make sure you're not making these allegations without evidence because libel is also a pretty serious offense. The city manager runs the town, not the council an I don't see anyone on that council 'growing a pair' to deal with this issue. Yes the City Manager does run this town due to the way our government structure is set up, not because of some power grab or authoritative rule. The only recourse City Council has is to take recommendations from the City Manager and change them with a majority vote...and in this regard City Council has had no problem going against what the City Manager has offered on virtually any front. So that means there must be some disconnect between the policy makers and the policies you're advocating. This is why I think it might be more beneficial to build allies and educate the policy makers instead of threatening lawsuits and investigations. Until the city manager is FIRED and we get some people on the council who really care about preservation not much will change. The City Manager is appointed by the Mayor and then must be approved by a City Council majority. So once again, there seems to be a total disconnect between the policy makers and the policies that you're advocating. It doesn't seem to matter whether they're a Republican, Democrat, Charterite, Independent or whatever.
February 5, 201015 yr No Randy, I could take your position and sit back and watch a house get demoed every other day by the city. With all due respect, you way isn't working! Every other day we have another demolition. You did see the list of new houses hearded for demoltion I posted earlier didnt you? At that rate we will add another 350 houses this year. 3500 this decade! In addition to the 2400 already on the keep vacant/VBML/Condemn list I am a preservationist first, and in the interest of full disclosure: I am not concerned about my blog ratings, I am not trying to impress anyone, I am not looking for, nor would I ever accept, a consulting gig or any other employment contract or otherwise with the city. Nor have I. I do not have any political aspirations. Nor do I consider myself the spokeperson for historic preservation. I am however the president of a Neighborhood Association, under literal siege by a city that seems intent on demoing it and as the president of that association I have a duty to the people who put me there to advocate and try to save our neighborhood. That however does not involve kissing the backside of city officials. It does involve holding them accountable to the rules and regulations under which they operate and I have the full support of my board in that endeavor. I can however see we have a very real problem when historic properties are demoed at an alarming rate and I am very concerned about people who claim to be "preservationists' but are not outraged by the senseless "architectural rape" this city is engaged in. I am not the only person out there advocating a change in staffing within city government. I also didnt use the work "corruption", you did.
February 5, 201015 yr I just don't understand why you feel the need to take the approach of being angry and upset with everyone. Heck, I'm on your side of this debate and you're even attacking me for sharing my thoughts and opinions for how to effectively change the City's policies. This makes me feel like you've already made up your mind for how you want to approach this and that there is no room for outside thoughts. If that's the case then it is unfortunate because I think in any preservation battle you need the biggest coalition of supporters you can build. And by you taking this bold approach, you have made yourself the spokesperson on the issue whether you intended to or not. I am not the only person out there advocating a change in staffing within city government. I also didnt use the work "corruption", you did. I said: From my experience working in nine different cities in five different states, the things that Cincinnati is doing are not much different from anyone else. I'm not saying it's right, but if everyone is allegedly abusing the system in the same way then how to you get HUD outraged over what is happening in Cincy with CDBG funding? You responded with: Between 2004-2006 , HUD has indicted 159 people on charges of false claims, bribery, fraudulent contracts, theft or embezzlement, and corruption in association with CDBG. So they do go after corruption.
February 5, 201015 yr We have some sucesses. A couple of block of OTR look better, Mt Adams looks nice and does Walnut Hills, however we are losing the battle. Frankly I used to do things exactly the way you do. I'd go to dinner parties and talk about preservation and feel like I was "accomplishing something" but while I was doing that? The same decisions were being made by the city, we continued to lose property after property. Finally I realized that being quiet, didn't get things done. I remember that years ago we had a "non profit' working in our neighborhood in the city I lived in. Essentially little more than slumlords masqarading as a charity. But because they has 'some sucess" (even though only 10 cents of the dollar actually went into the community and almost all of it went to Staff) they were highly respected by the city I lived in. They held over 30 properties in our area , all in disrepair and if you ran police reports 80 percent of neighborhood crime originated from their properties. they were all historic and all converted to multi family. In order to 'expand their good work" they wanted to take an old school in our neighborhood , demo some run down but historic houses for parking and open a Welfare office in co-op with the city, and a "needs center' to basically expand what they were doing, which was NOT helping our neighborhood. They were embraced by the city , had the blsessing of several high powered city council members and it was considered a "done deal." Except the neighborhood didn't want it. They wanted those houses saved. they didn't want the traffic and congestion. They had to live with it. We expressed or concerns and they fell on deaf ears. So we decided that approach wouldn't work. We got area residents together, mothers with baby carriages and we made picket signs and we decided to go picket their fancy foundation offices. We showed up, they laughed. That is until the three camera crews , and the newspapers showed up, then they closed their blinds. But it was supposed to be a 'done deal'. The zoning hearing came up and we brought 350 people from the neighborhood, we car pooled everyone. We collected thousands of signatures against the proposal. Suddenly they asked for a continuance. In the interim, our little group received death threats and some vandalism to our houses. I had a window shot out. We were told we couldnt fight this group because it was too powerful , too important. We couldn't fight city hall and they had the backing of the city, they had attorneys, it was a lost cause. It was a 'done deal' We went to reporters and the reporters started investigating, they followed the money trail. They investigated the conditions of the houses and why city inspectors were not following the laws. City workers were fired, and some people, who were getting kickbacks, went to jail for fraud. The illustrious non profit folded, its grant monies yanked. The councilmen who touted the group as a "savior to the community", shut up and, not surprisingly ,lost their re-elections.There were new ethics oversight boards in city government. Today that neighbrohood is one of the shining stars in its city. The historic homes are restored, crime is low and its one of the most desirable in that city. Those houses they wanted to bulldoze? They are still standing and they are restored now and worth huge amounts of money. The school is now used by a legitamate non profit that uses it as offices only and actuallt does good work in the community. After that, when I, or someone from our group, had an issue or cause. The city listened, they didnt want to go through what tehy went through before. They knew we were serious. My point is ,when a system is broken you have to fix it. sometimes being polite just doesn't work, Sometimes, you have to go out on a limb to get things done and people will be telling you "not to go there, its not going to work,we don't do things that way around here". Had we done things the way they had always been done? The neighbrohood would have declined, the houses would have been bulldozed and that non profit and the city would have gotten their way. If I had listened to those telling me not to "rock the boat, not to be angry"? NOTHING would have changed. Maybe its time to try something different, because what we are doing right now isn't working! Believe it or not Rando, a lot of people agree with me.
February 5, 201015 yr Frankly I used to do things exactly the way you do. I'd go to dinner parties and talk about preservation and feel like I was "accomplishing something" but while I was doing that? The same decisions were being made by the city, we continued to lose property after property. That's certainly not an accurate description of what I do, but as always, I appreciate you trying to characterize me without having met me or get to know the work I do professionally or personally. My point is ,when a system is broken you have to fix it. sometimes being polite just doesn't work, Sometimes, you have to go out on a limb to get things done and people will be telling you "not to go there, its not going to work,we don't do things that way around here". I couldn't agree more, but just because you found success that way before doesn't ensure you'll find success that way again. A crucial part to the success of your plan revolves around corruption taking place. Your correct allegations in your previous experience proved to be fruitful to your cause since you were right, but if you're wrong, those allegations that destroyed the corrupt system you fought could just as easily destroy you. I wish you the best because if you're right on your allegations then we might be able to change the system here, but if you're wrong you might be setting the whole movement back and creating entrenched political enemies.
February 5, 201015 yr I think there's room for both tactics. Randy, I think you mentioned designing some stuff to circulate highlighting the problem. I think that's a great idea. Maybe we should start a thread, and brainstorm on what to include. Pictures, I think, are essential. If I had more time and webdesign skills, I'd make a first draft of the whole deal myself...maybe I will do it anyway in a PDF or something. Some ideas: Show pictures of properties which most definitely should not be torn down. Example (via ResCons's blog):(Can't get the img mark-up to work.) (I think this one is very effective, in particular, as it really highlights context.) Next, show pics that exemplify what these buildings could look like, i.e. blocks around Findlay Market. Another thing would be to highlight how much progress has been made, say in the Gateway Quarter, in such a short time. Explain the city's tactics: the too-fast VBML/condemn orders, the lack of incentives for restoration, etc. Give alternative suggestions for what the city's policies could be. Try to highlight why Cincy's building stock is unique (in ways that don't bore people not so concerned with historic detail), what good shape most of the building stock is actually in, and how tearing our history down can't be reversed. This could rally people to ResCon's cause, as well as drum up sympathy among residents, business owners, and politicians. Another pie-in-the-sky idea I've had is pitching to P&G the possibility of making a "P&G Village" in OTR, in the vein of GE's "Village" near their Evendale plant. It's very farfetched, but someone with that kind of money needs to get into the OTR preservation business if things are really going to get better in a time frame that prevents demolition. 3CDC is nice, but not enough. One thing is for sure: we need action. Bullsh!tting on a forum is all well and good, but the energy needs to be channeled further. (And for this, I thank ResCon for truly creating some momentum!)
February 5, 201015 yr A crucial part to the success of your plan revolves around corruption taking place. Randy, I don't think his tactics fail if there is no corruption going on. While he may be a bit quick to make accusations, the idea that VBML's/condemnations aren't being used the way they were meant to be and the possibility that HUD would disapprove are weighty and legitimate concerns, as they stand. It seems pretty indisputable that these procedures are not used in the way they were meant to be used. Why not bring it to legal challenge, and let the courts decide if things go further than just "not the way it's supposed to be" and into "illegal"? I see nothing wrong with letting "the system" have its say in the matter. All of that is totally independent of accusations of corruption.
February 5, 201015 yr From the posted list: Regarding 24 Elder, obviously a CONTRIBUTING commercial structure for any future historic district designation. Ground floor has been altered somewhat but largely original and from C. 1870 according to auditor's site. 512 Prospect is a unique (and likely architect or plan book design) towered Italianate villa. I concur it would elegible individually for the National Register of Historic Places based on its surviving architectural details. In any other city, it would have local landmark status. I believe 24 Elder is a contributing structure for OTR District however the city can get around that by using Cap improvement funds. Peopl think OTR is protected but only protected if Federal dollars are used. THAT is the other problem we have ZERO input on how Cap improvment funds are used. I tend to side with RestConsult in this debate. The Building Department is single-minded in their determination to demo. They have made themselves the enemy of preservationists. However I have not experienced his claim that buildings with minor problems are put on the VBML list. I just haven't seen that in OTR, although it may happen in other neighborhoods. My understanding is that just because 24 Elder is on this list does not mean it will be demolished this month or this year. Unless it starts to fall onto the sidewalk the Historic Conservation Board will not allow the Building Dept to demolish it. But if someone could do some legwork and find the owner, they would probably sign over the deed. It looks like the owner is a relative of the person who last had a beauty salon there. But who knows, the owner could have died. The tax mailing address is a public housing project in the West End that was demolished years ago. I still don't understand why the property has not yet been auctioned.
February 5, 201015 yr Our group if finishing up work on draft proposal to create CRZ districts. I am meeting with some state level legislators on this proposal next month as some state level legislation would be required. I am encouraged by the interest so far. They seem to understand that new approaches are needed. As it might apply to Knox Hill working with the City of Cincinnati. Bear in mind this is draft proposal and final may be different but basically the key points: Legislative action either at the local or state level for older potentially historic Urban neighborhoods with high levels of foreclosed/vacant property to be declared “Community Reinvestment Zones’. CRZ (Community Reinvestment Zone). CRZ districts would have the ability to fast track redevelopment and restoration by a process of incentives both local, state and federal to encourage redevelopment and reinvestment in the area. These CRZ districts strategies would include: ·Change of VBML orders to “repair orders”. ·Reduction or elimination of Permit Fees in a CRZ district. ·CDBG, NSP or Local Capital Improvement Funds to be used for repair not demolition. ·Elimination of delinquent property taxes on forclosed properties as an incentive to buyers (could be offset by some form of state or federal redevelopment funding) ·Liability insurance pools to help homeowners obtain affordable liability and homeowner insurance. ·Working with local lenders and creating tax credits to create “loan programs’ dealing with small project loans of 5,000.00 -25,000.00 for home repairs. ·Fast tracking of current vacant lots to ownership by city action on demo liens. These lots would be sold to adjacent home owners, 1st priority, Community groups, 2nd priority (for community gardens and thumbnail parks), Investor/builders, 3rd priority, with conditions to build infill housing. ·Special police patrols to target high crime areas and to coordinate crime watch programs. ·Increase of local penalties for illegal dumping. ·Federal and state monies for infrastructure improvements like sidewalk repairs and lighting. ·Creating of “paint up/ fix up grants” for low income and elderly home owners to maintain their properties ·A 3 year 5000.00 maximum per year STATE tax credit for buyers of foreclosed property who are restoring those properties and can demonstrate investment via receipts and permits ·Quarterly neighborhood cleanups through city. State level funding for pilot recycling programs. ·"Adopt a House" program where community groups, churches and businesses could donate time to elderly homeowners needing assistance with maintenance. ·Co-ordinate with local school technical trades programs to create a “Youth in Preservation Program” to teach restoration skills to youth as part of a schools technical trades program. ·Establishment of a FLIP program where local neighborhood group would obtain and with volunteer labor stabilize homes and then resell them with protective covenants to owner occupants. This would become a revolving fund. Establishment of a CRZ district would be for a 5 year period with a 3 year extension renewal available. Summary The current Urban planning model of “Blight=Bulldozer” and roadblocks to redevelopment currently in use by many cities will no longer work given the changing real estate market we are in today. Cities much take new approaches to encourage reinvestment and must understand that given the real estate market home buyers are taking the financial risk in those economically disadvantages areas by moving in. The State of Ohio at a legislative level should create a climate for reinvestment and provide reasonable incentives to encourage cities to establish CRZ districts. Care must be taken to retain long term existing owners and provide resources to make it possible to stay in their home. We must one again think of areas not as collection of houses but rather as communities, which must be nurtured and rebuilt. In the long run, cities will ultimately benefit. Small concessions in the areas of delinquent taxes, reduction in permit fees and such will be regained when vacant homes are returned to occupied homes. Property values will increase and the tax base will be restored. Stronger well-kept communities will eventually encourage developers to build quality infill housing and the ‘gaps’ left in the Urban Landscape will be filled in. It will however take a ‘seed change’ a change from an adversarial punitive approach to property maintenance by city inspectors to a Neighborhood building approach with the CRZ district.
February 5, 201015 yr That is nice, ResCon. I think we really need to get all this info into one place, hyperlinked together, so that it is in a small, digestable package on the surface, but if someone is interested in details (such as those suggestions you just laid out), they can just click a well-placed/well-labeled hyperlink and find all the information they want to know about a specific issue. Organization is key, as is presentation. It needs to look professional and thorough. We need to work together on this stuff, not argue about it. I'd like to hear Randy's input on all of this.
February 5, 201015 yr That is nice, ResCon. I think we really need to get all this info into one place, hyperlinked together, so that it is in a small, digestable package on the surface, but if someone is interested in details (such as those suggestions you just laid out), they can just click a well-placed/well-labeled hyperlink and find all the information they want to know about a specific issue. Organization is key, as is presentation. It needs to look professional and thorough. We need to work together on this stuff, not argue about it. I'd like to hear Randy's input on all of this. Ultimately in my opinion this "clearing house' should be at CPA's site. However I do not thing they have the manpower or budget to set it up. What I'd like to see is maybe make this a project for group of college students seeking historic preservation or architecure/urban planning degrees. It would immerse them in local neighorhood groups, familiarize them with neighborhood process and give them 'real world' experience of dealing with municipalities who may not be receptive to preservation. Not to mention getting their 'feet wet' in the real world of preservation not just the study of the theory of preservation. I know I could use a couple of willing students to help our association with our National registry nomination research. Doing Sanborn map surveys, and city directories that are very time consuming parts of neighborhood research. I think we need to engage youth as much as possible if we are to grow a new generation of people who care about historic architecture.
February 5, 201015 yr Cincinnati has something of NATIONAL significance in its historic, urban neighborhoods (OTR!). We need to join together and affect our city's politicians/policies because we want to save our endangered community. This isn't about UR or RC.
February 5, 201015 yr ResCon, I like the idea of having students help out. (I also like your ideas about having local high school kids do some real preservation/restoration work, too...though that sounds much more complicated.) Is anyone who frequents this site in the UC Urban Planning program (or any other relevant local program)? Have you had any contact with local professors who might be interested in helping (by recommending this to students, giving them some independent study credits for it, or whatever)? Scrabble, what are UR and RC? I'm not very hip to the lingo.
February 5, 201015 yr Scrabble, what are UR and RC? I'm not very hip to the lingo. UR = UncleRando RC = RestorationConsultant
February 5, 201015 yr Unfortunately most of our city's political leaders do not understand the significance of our architecture nor do they understand Preservation and Historic Tourism as an economic development tool and jobs creator. But its not just OTR thats in trouble and in many respects we have so focused on OTR to the detriment of other areas. OTR by itself, means nothing if the hills around it are barren. The problem, as I see it, is we have never treated preservation as a "city wide" initiative. Price Hill is just as important as OTR for example in the overall scheme of preservation. What has to change is the city. Change does not come easy however. Nationally most preservationists I know are totally baffeled by Cincinnati. With the architectural resources we have. I gave several tours this summer to Preservationists from across the country. They were all blown away by the architecture but there eyes 'glazed over' when you tried to explain what a VBML was and why houses were being demoed and not restored. They could not believe that second empires like mine were just sitting vacant and more shocked that a city would even consider tearing one down.
February 5, 201015 yr Is anyone who frequents this site in the UC Urban Planning program (or any other relevant local program)? Have you had any contact with local professors who might be interested in helping (by recommending this to students, giving them some independent study credits for it, or whatever)? Yes, I graduated from UC's School of Planning (BUP) and also earned a Certificate in Historic Preservation while there. Menelaos Triantafillou heads up the HP program for the School of Planning, but I would say that David Stradling who heads up the entire certificate program and teaches the capstone class would be the best person to get in touch with.
February 5, 201015 yr I gave several tours this summer to Preservationists from across the country. They were all blown away by the architecture but there eyes 'glazed over' when you tried to explain what a VBML was and why houses were being demoed and not restored. They could not believe that second empires like mine were just sitting vacant and more shocked that a city would even consider tearing one down. Part of our plan should be to try to reach out nationally to the preservation scene. I think this was actually part of what Randy was saying, when he was talking about making some literature. (Randy, you're kid of silent...are you not interested in collaborating?) If we're right about the draw the local architecture can have, we should be able to convince some preservationists to come in and help. Scrabble, what are UR and RC? I'm not very hip to the lingo. UR = UncleRando RC = RestorationConsultant D'oh. Scrabble's post makes more sense now, and I feel stupid.
February 5, 201015 yr RC is right when he says there is a disconnect and the leadership is wrong. UR is right when he says we all need to be civil (especially the preservationists, they are especially implacable :D) Rando, is Triantafilou related to the Hamilton County GOP Chair?
February 5, 201015 yr UR is right when he says we all need to be civil (especially the preservationists, they are especially implacable :D) And S is right on all counts. But I think it's important to note that going to court is not being uncivil.
February 5, 201015 yr UR is right when he says we all need to be civil (especially the preservationists, they are especially implacable :D) And S is right on all counts. But I think it's important to note that going to court is not being uncivil. Correct and being implacable isn't necessarily wrong.
February 5, 201015 yr If being implacable is wrong, I don't wanna be right! :lol: Ditto, but being implacable (even if you are right) isn't enough. But RC and UR and the rest of us know this and that's why we're all carrying out our little projects against the status quo. That's also why we're having this conversation.
February 5, 201015 yr Generally I have found when discussing demolition of historic structures, the BEST argument is not to focus on the buildings themselves but to stress the loss of tax base. For example the list of 36 properties the city just put on the demo list has an assessed value of about 2 million dollars. A 50,000 house pays about a 1000.00 a year in property taxes. Those property taxes pay for schools, parks roads and overall quality of life we enjoy. Those 36 houses will cost the TAXPAYERS on average 10-15,000 EACH to demo. The city RARELY, if ever, collects those monies back through the courts, meaning the taxpayers paid for it! A vacant lot in Cincinnati pays about 150.00 a year in taxes by comparison. Typically the owner walks away from the lot so it sits with no taxes paid at all. The grass grows, neighbors complain and the city (your tax dollars) then go to maintain the lot through cutting and the inevitable cleanup caused by dumping. Those cost can be few hundred to a few thousand a year. Paid for with your tax dollars. Those lots typically sit for 10-20 YEARS before they are developed, if ever. Demolition reduces the tax base, still must be maintained at city expense, AND produce no revenue. As we shrink the tax base everyone sees higher taxes and more leveys because those lost dollars must be replaced and those left must then take up the slack. Meaning EVERYONES TAXES GO UP WHEN YOU DEMO BUILDINGS. Not to mention higher taxes=less new business because we are not as competitive. When people talk about DETROIT, especially economists, they talk about the failed "methodology". Effective city planning does not involve demolition of your tax base, higher taxes for the remaining residents and businesses,BECAUSE? Eventually those people leave, because of the high taxes and the city essentially dies. Modern cities do not do what Detroit did. Cincinnati is making the same mistake of believing that the elimination of blight (houses) will spur new construction. We know , based on all the evidence,that is failed strategy. So in making the argument to "non preservation' people, you simply argue the city is taking your tax dollars to demo houses that will then pay no taxes , meaning your taxes go up and you get to pick up the tab for taking care of the vacant lots and the neghborhood that is left that no one wants to live in because it its largely vacant. When you explain it that way to people who could care less about old houses people understand why demolition is stupid! :clap:
February 9, 201015 yr Here are some photos of 24 West Elder Street: http://www.citykin.com/2010/02/donnas-stop-and-shop.html
February 9, 201015 yr Those are great photos of the area. That building still has potential. I restored buildings in far worse shape in Chaleston after Hugo. That would make a great live/work building. I reported on my blog today that the Conservation Board actually went against the recomendation of Caroline Kellam (Cincy Urban Planner) and Larry Harris(City Urban Conservator) and DENIED Northpoints request to demo a property at 1323 Republic for a "temporary" parking lot. So maybe there is some hope 24 Elder might not be demoed
February 9, 201015 yr Here are some photos of 24 West Elder Street: http://www.citykin.com/2010/02/donnas-stop-and-shop.html Great pics, pathetic situation. I reported on my blog today that the Conservation Board actually went against the recomendation of Caroline Kellam (Cincy Urban Planner) and Larry Harris(City Urban Conservator) and DENIED Northpoints request to demo a property at 1323 Republic for a "temporary" parking lot. So maybe there is some hope 24 Elder might not be demoed Good news, yes!
February 11, 201015 yr The Westwood Historical Society is nominating the historic Gamble House on Werk Road as a City landmark. The house has been largely vacant for years and is in need of repair, but structurally sound. It is owned by the Greenacres Foundation of Indian Hill, who has refused to repair it and has placed very difficult conditions on its reuse, including funding for renovation. Recently a neighbor complained about its condition, which led to orders being placed on it by the City. Repairs were then made to the site, but not the house. Yeasterday I heard someone at CPA that they were told by the Westwood Historical Society that the owners are getting bids on demolition of the house. Because it’s being nominated as a landmark, the City may be able to put a hold on demo permits. Maybe that buys 180 days at most? This is ongoing and I'll update as I know more, there are a couple of options that could be pursued. Hopefully they would sell it.Technically. WESTCURC could sue for receivership, that would be interesting. I am posting the auditors photo but here is link to a photostream that has better pictures The Demo of this house would be tragic loss!
February 12, 201015 yr The "Nuisance board ', AKA the "Historic DEATH Panel" will hold a public hearing on Feb 26 I have some photos on my blog of some of the houses. http://victorianantiquitiesanddesign.blogspot.com/2010/02/nuisancedemo-board-hearing-feb-26.html This is a BAD list! Several OTR properties on it and landmark church in the West End Ive been in two of the OTR properties on the list 316 McMicken which is in good shape with no structural issues and 207 McMicken which is RARE large single family Italianate townhouse. We looked at this in 2008 and tried to buy it but a 'investor' who had no inetntion to do anything with it other than relist it for 10 times what he paid for it beat us to it. It has an incredible steam bent staircase and while rough overall is restorable and would make a first class home. I am just shocked that 1815 Freeman is on this list. Its landmark church! There MUST be way to save this structure. The city is SERIOUSLY escalating in OTR! The "death list" 1718 CEDAR AV - Book-Plat-Parcel 0229-0004-0008 41 W MCMICKEN AV - Book-Plat-Parcel 0096-0006-0126 316 W MCMICKEN AV - Book-Plat-Parcel 0096-0004-0125 207 W MCMICKEN AV - Book-Plat-Parcel 0096-0005-0162. 3735 CASS AV - Book-Plat-Parcel 0192-0065-0065. 1815 FREEMAN AV - Book-Plat-Parcel 0184-0004-0004. 2519 WARSAW AV - Book-Plat-Parcel 0175-0015-0002. 638 TAFEL ST - Book-Plat-Parcel 0098-0002-0068. 2839 MARSHALL AV - Book-Plat-Parcel 0101-0003-0092. 7866 NEWBEDFORD AV - Book-Plat-Parcel 0117-0015-0268 2103 VINE ST - Book-Plat-Parcel 0095-0005-0201. 974 ELBERON AV - Book-Plat-Parcel 0175-0017-0135. 2219 BOONE ST - Book-Plat-Parcel 0090-0002-0155. 1627 JONATHAN AV - Book-Plat-Parcel 0058-0005-0010. 3610 MARIA ST - Book-Plat-Parcel 0174-0008-0198 2549 SEEGAR AV - Book-Plat-Parcel 0202-0042-0221. 925 WELLS ST - Book-Plat-Parcel 0175-0018-0041. 3637 BROOKS AV - Book-Plat-Parcel 0059-0006-0104. 1927 HEWITT AV - Book-Plat-Parcel 0054-0003-0010. 1314 REGENT AV - Book-Plat-Parcel 0131-0006-0050 Those of you who know people who don't understand Preservation? The best way to explain this is below. WHAT THIS COSTS YOU THE TAXPAYER: Average cost of 15000.00 per demo = 300,000.00 Total assessed value lost by demolition = 2,600,340.00 Total taxes Currently due (likely Never paid after demo) 146,473.30 Total Annual Tax revenue generated 91,738.98 We need to lobby the council hard on the makeup of the nuisance board. The supervisors of the inspectors run this board and its a govenemnetal conflict of interest as some of the funding for demo goes to staff costs.
February 12, 201015 yr That church is the First German Reformed. I've posted 47 photos of the exterior and interior in there. It's seen better days, but the roof is mostly in good repair. It needs a few patches, but the roof is there. The floors are solid except for the connector in the rear, where it has rotted down to the joists due to water intrusion.
February 12, 201015 yr That church is almost the same size to one in Indianapolis in the Fletcher Place neighborhood that was converted into 4, one million dollar condos. I've restored buildings in MUCH worse shape. http://www.fletcherpointe.com/about.html While I am nota big fan on conversion, it a viable alternative to tearing down historic structures!
February 12, 201015 yr Westwood Concern has a detailed article on the Gambel house on their website that goes into detail about the house and some photos! http://westwoodconcern.org/news.shtml
February 22, 201015 yr Delayed by weather, it is finally starting. Demolition starts this week Demolition is scheduled to begin this week, Feb. 22–26, in several areas around campus that are affected by construction of the new residence hall and dining complex. Those areas include the Circle Storage Units building on Dana Avenue, the Mission and Identity and Residence Life houses on Ledgewood, the houses on Cleneay near Montgomery Road and the H&H Grill and apartment building on Montgomery across from Betta's.
February 22, 201015 yr Uh oh. This is a follow-up. Gamble house closer to demolition By Cliff Radel, Cincinnati Enquirer, February 22, 2010 Applications have been filed for demolition permits to level James N. Gamble’s house in Westwood. “It doesn’t look good for that old house,” said Ed Cunningham, manager of the city’s Department of Community Development, upon learning of the filings for the permits. Two parts of the application were approved Monday, the same day a story appeared in the Enquirer about the house’s endangered status. Once approved, the applicant, Algiers Construction, has 120 days to make use of the permit.
February 23, 201015 yr Did a field trip to the house tonight. Electricity is on. The interior is stable. The roof is stable but needs relatively minor repairs -- no gaping holes, but some minor water intrusions. Front porch needs repair due to water intrusion. Plants growing in the solarium are healthy and green. We figured out why he wants the house: his new McMansion is in the rear and he wants the land cleared to expand his front lawn. PROTEST at the Gamble House, Wednesday 5:30 PM.
February 23, 201015 yr who's mcmansion is in the rear? Carter Randolph? I was amazed at how much of a d-bag he comes across as in that article from the 21st.
February 23, 201015 yr When I was there last night, I spotted a large residence in the rear. I'm not sure if it is his, but I'll check the property listings in a few.
February 23, 201015 yr looking at the auditor's site it looks like there are two parcels owned by that foundation. One is the gamble house (parcel ID 208-0057-0002-00 ) and the other is a smaller 2 bedroom building behind it (parcel ID 208-0057-0141-00) possibly a caretaker's house?
February 23, 201015 yr It looked newer but I didn't get that close to that. -- The left and upper tract of the Gamble estate goes to: 020800570141 GREENACRES FOUNDATION SF-10 ZONING MKT LAND VALUE: $253040 MKT IMPR VALUE: $64580 TOTAL MKT VALUE: $317620 DEEDED ACREAGE: 11.5860 PREVIOUS OWNER: NIPPERT LOUISE DIETERLE IN HISTORIC DIST: NO IDC DIST: NO SPUR DIST: NO TIF DIST: NO URBAN DESIGN DIST: NO HILLSIDE DIST: NO The remaining, including the house: 020800570002 GREENACRES FOUNDATION SF-10 ZONING MKT LAND VALUE: $65860 MKT IMPR VALUE: $266950 TOTAL MKT VALUE: $332810 DEEDED ACREAGE: 2.85 PREVIOUS OWNER: NIPPERT LOUISE DIETERLE IN HISTORIC DIST: NO IDC DIST: NO SPUR DIST: NO TIF DIST: NO URBAN DESIGN DIST: NO HILLSIDE DIST: NO
February 23, 201015 yr That church is almost the same size to one in Indianapolis in the Fletcher Place neighborhood that was converted into 4, one million dollar condos. I've restored buildings in MUCH worse shape. I highly doubt that you could get $1 million for condos inside the church at that location. If you were able to I would bet someone would come in and restore the building...granted they could do the work for less than $4M or have a nice subsidy from the government.
February 23, 201015 yr Gamble House The Gamble House, located in the Cincinnati, Ohio neighborhood of Westwood, is located at 2918 Werk Road. The imposing 2 1/2-story residence, constructed in the Queen Anne style, was constructed by James N. Gamble on the site of his father's earlier dwelling. The historic residence could be potentially demolished within 120 days. Did a write-up regarding the recent dealings about the residence, and some basic history from 1875 to the 1960s. I plan on conducting more in-depth research in the following days. There are three exterior photographs in the gallery.
February 23, 201015 yr Gamble House Prehearing before the Conservation Board.March 1, 2-3 p.m., Griesel Conference Room, 7th floor, 805 Central Avenue. I 'don't' think they can do any demo before this hearing is held, Critical people be there! The propety is zoned 510 Single family that means to do anything the foundation wants to do they will need a rezoning or variance. We need to let Green Acres Foundation know in no uncertain terms we will oppose any use if the house is demoed. Protest meeting Tommorrow night at 5 PM in front. Media is coming!
February 25, 201015 yr Preservationists want Gamble house repaired, not razed By Cliff Radel • [email protected] • February 24, 2010 http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20100224/NEWS01/2250369/Advocates%20try%20to%20save%20Gamble%20house?GID=BwRLSzdGxewZlkk3EoRAQx5DD1YQshsSIj7sxnas4QM%3D
February 26, 201015 yr Judge to decide Gamble house fate By Cliff Radel • [email protected] • February 26, 2010 A lawsuit seeking the demolition of the historic James N. Gamble house in Westwood will be heard 10 a.m. today by Common Pleas Judge Norbert Nadel. :-o they really want this building down as quickly as possible and without any protests.
February 26, 201015 yr From Bob Prokop -- UPDATE from COURT HEARING: Great turnout from supporters -- we had at least 16 people show up and pack the house! Council Member Jeff Berding was also in attendance to lend support -- thank you, Jeff! Larry Harris, Cincinnati's Urban Conservator was also in attendance. The house will stand—at least for now. Monday's pre-...designation hearing with the Historic Conservation Board is a go -- so please plan on attending. We need to see LOTS of people in the house. I'm not qualified to tell you exactly what happened in the courtroom today, but there was plenty of news media in the house -- so be watching the 12 noon news. The important thing to understand from today is that the demolition permit was not issued, and the house will remain standing—at least long enough for it to go through proper Historic Conservation Board review. More news to come later... Thanks again for the GREAT showing!
February 26, 201015 yr Good news. I might be able to attend the Monday meeting, but there's a good chance I'll be busy unloading the truck and getting settled into my new place.
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