Yeah, and it looks marginally better than it did before they tore it down. :)

 

Any idea of when they are going to start putting up the new building?

Coral's website does not give any indication on when construction will begin, only that they remain committed to the project.  http://www.thecoralcompany.com/cedarcenter2.html.

 

 

Cedar Center north is a pile of rubble as of this past week.

 

I was beginning to wonder about that...

I saw that the demolition last week was about halfway done but forgot to comment on it here. And I didn't have a camera with me. Sorry!

 

I used to live on that side of town and I have good memories of Cedar Center's movie theater. I saw Airplane, Outland, Black Hole and several other flicks there with my next door neighbor and friend Anthony Rhea in the late 70s and early 80s. I recall there being a Chinese restaurant at the center where we often ate before going to see a movie.

 

Was it the one that was in the basement underneath the stores?  Everyone used to rave about that place and I ate there a few years ago.  I didn't remember it being any good.  Does anybody know if Zaza Food and Drink is moving or if they just went out of business?

 

EDIT: Since it was deleted from this thread, for future reference, the Chinese restaurant in question was Peking Gourmet.

I saw that the demolition last week was about halfway done but forgot to comment on it here. And I didn't have a camera with me. Sorry!

 

I used to live on that side of town and I have good memories of Cedar Center's movie theater. I saw Airplane, Outland, Black Hole and several other flicks there with my next door neighbor and friend Anthony Rhea in the late 70s and early 80s. I recall there being a Chinese restaurant at the center where we often ate before going to see a movie.

 

Was it the one that was in the basement underneath the stores? Everyone used to rave about that place and I ate there a few years ago. I didn't remember it being any good. Does anybody know if Zaza Food and Drink is moving or if they just went out of business?

 

It was really good at one time.  Probably about 5 or 10 years back, new ownership took over and the place went to the pits AND the super hot hostess disappeared :(

 

Back to the demolition, apparently, the City paid for it with County assistance.  This makes me somewhat weary because I would have hoped that after all SE went through to get that strip clear of tenants, that Coral would have some significant funds sunk into this that would discourage total abandonment of the project.. a la the investment Wolstein and Co. have in the FEB.

Coral's website does not give any indication on when construction will begin, only that they remain committed to the project.  http://www.thecoralcompany.com/cedarcenter2.html.

 

And thats always worrisome.  Meaning it could be a while....

I saw that the demolition last week was about halfway done but forgot to comment on it here. And I didn't have a camera with me. Sorry!

 

I used to live on that side of town and I have good memories of Cedar Center's movie theater. I saw Airplane, Outland, Black Hole and several other flicks there with my next door neighbor and friend Anthony Rhea in the late 70s and early 80s. I recall there being a Chinese restaurant at the center where we often ate before going to see a movie.

 

Was it the one that was in the basement underneath the stores?  Everyone used to rave about that place and I ate there a few years ago.  I didn't remember it being any good.  Does anybody know if Zaza Food and Drink is moving or if they just went out of business?

 

It was really good at one time.  Probably about 5 or 10 years back, new ownership took over and the place went to the pits AND the super hot hostess disappeared :(

 

Back to the demolition, apparently, the City paid for it with County assistance.  This makes me somewhat weary because I would have hoped that after all SE went through to get that strip clear of tenants, that Coral would have some significant funds sunk into this that would discourage total abandonment of the project.. a la the investment Wolstein and Co. have in the FEB.

 

I think the name of the chinese restaurant was Peking Garden or China Garden?  the name escapes me now.  It was right next to Radio Shack.  right?

EDIT: Since it was deleted from this thread, for future reference, the Chinese restaurant in question was Peking Gourmet.

EDIT: Since it was deleted from this thread, for future reference, the Chinese restaurant in question was Peking Gourmet.

 

thanks...I missed that. 

China Gate. I grew up right behind Cedar Center on the University Hts side.

China Gate. I grew up right behind Cedar Center on the University Hts side.

 

THATS IT!  THANKS!

This is welcome demolition! I have pictures I have been taking of the pre-demo and post-demo that I will upload soon. According to SE's economic dev. dep't, this project is moving right ahead, and as you will see when driving by, the entire site is almost flat, other than the largest building that will take more skill to tear down since it stands right up against Starbucks parking lot.

Well, this project is killing me. Am I going to retire before it's done? They are still not done clearing the old rubble from the site. The last stuff remaining before excavation is the scrap from a large bank safe and the basements of the plaza that need cleared out. I am hoping by 2015 they can have the project underway.. no seriously, does anyone have some updates? Is this being scaled back to have like one-level only now? Sorry, I'm just thinking about how easy it will be to blame the economy if they want to build a typical suburban plaza rather than the originally planned urban center.

biz, its not like you can snap your fingers and expect a project to be done.

 

It's like building a home, expect a delay or two along the way.

There was an article somewhere in the last month, with coral citing the extremely challenging economic environment for the dealys.  I believe they also mentioned that to combat that they are breaking the project into 3 or 4 phases, and that they have tenants lined up for the first phase which they begin to start on in the near future.  Whether people want to admit or not, the global economy and it's effects are very real.  This problem is not unique to North East Ohio.

Whether people want to admit or not, the global economy and it's effects are very real. This problem is not unique to North East Ohio.

 

A little off topic, i'm sorry, but i still cant believe all the times i hear something along the lines of "Well ________ project stalled or was cancelled, but thats what happens in Cleveland." Its like people are oblivious to whats going on in the world. Somehow they think that the projects in and around cleveland that are experiencing problems is something only happening in cleveland, and its "because we're in Cleveland" that they are not moving forward. Every time i hear this my blood boils and my heart rate skyrockets.

There was an article somewhere in the last month, with coral citing the extremely challenging economic environment for the dealys. I believe they also mentioned that to combat that they are breaking the project into 3 or 4 phases, and that they have tenants lined up for the first phase which they begin to start on in the near future. Whether people want to admit or not, the global economy and it's effects are very real. This problem is not unique to North East Ohio.

 

That really is a whole lot of land.  I knew there was a parking lot behind the building when it was there, but I never really grasped how much space there was until the building was demolished.  It does not surprise me at all that it has to be broken into phases.

Whether people want to admit or not, the global economy and it's effects are very real. This problem is not unique to North East Ohio.

 

A little off topic, i'm sorry, but i still cant believe all the times i hear something along the lines of "Well ________ project stalled or was cancelled, but thats what happens in Cleveland." Its like people are oblivious to whats going on in the world. Somehow they think that the projects in and around cleveland that are experiencing problems is something only happening in cleveland, and its "because we're in Cleveland" that they are not moving forward. Every time i hear this my blood boils and my heart rate skyrockets.

 

you and me both.

There was an article somewhere in the last month, with coral citing the extremely challenging economic environment for the dealys.  I believe they also mentioned that to combat that they are breaking the project into 3 or 4 phases, and that they have tenants lined up for the first phase which they begin to start on in the near future.  Whether people want to admit or not, the global economy and it's effects are very real.  This problem is not unique to North East Ohio.

 

Good points...No its not unique to just here.. Its just what happens when central banks control all the world's money....and have the power to bring the economy to its knees until they get what they want. Get rid of the Fed. Reserve.

 

Are there any latest renderings?

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2009/07/cedar_center_developers_divide.html

 

Cedar Center developer divides project

by Michelle Jarboe/Plain Dealer Reporter

Tuesday July 28, 2009, 5:33 PM

 

 

SOUTH EUCLID, Ohio -- Facing high hurdles set by lenders, the developer trying to rebuild Cedar Center is splitting the project into four phases that will be easier to finance and fill.

 

Monday night, South Euclid's city council unanimously approved a new project development agreement with the Coral Co., a developer based in University Heights. The document outlines Coral's new approach to building shops, restaurants, offices and homes on property northwest of Cedar and Warrensville Center roads...

and a little more in depeth...

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/sunmessenger/2009/07/cedar_center_plans_in_south_eu.html

 

Cedar Center plans in South Euclid making progress

Posted by Jeff Piorkowski July 30, 2009 09:50AM

Categories: Breaking News

By Jeff Piorkowski

 

[email protected]

 

SOUTH EUCLID The city and the Coral Co. have reached a final agreement setting parameters for the rebuild of Cedar Center.

 

Coral is the developer of what will be called Cedar Center North, on the north side of Cedar Road, at Warrensville Center Road...

biz, its not like you can snap your fingers and expect a project to be done.

 

It's like building a home, expect a delay or two along the way.

 

Well, I just happened to look at the begin date of this thread, which is 2004. The project has not yet broken ground and now the developer is breaking it into phases that "could" take 3 years, but perhaps longer. 3 years from now is 2012. 2004 to 2012 = 8 years. I have every right to snap my fingers.

 

Furthermore, I live in South Euclid and this project is integral to my city's future survival as an inner-ring suburb. Just look what happened in the East Bank of the Flats. They seized, no wait, they used eminent domain to kick everyone out, tear the place down to nothing, and then cancel/delay/stall the project. Now, the EBF no longer exists and is nothing but piles of dirt. 15 miles east is a similar picture - Cedar Center is also a large site that is not a pile of rubble. Cedar Center previously had many big name tenants (Chipotle - how many Chipotle's have been "shut down" since their inception?) and unique local tenants booted out, some gone forever, others now in Cleveland Heights (Anatolia) and Lakewood (Peking), with promises of a much larger and grander result. But now, the project is being broke into phases, with the best and most important phase being last. The initial phase sounds a lot like the shopping plaza across the street that Coral developed. A one-story shopping plaza with a parking lot. This project is absolutely dependent on the large-scale effect that was originally planned: the parking deck, the community park, the multi-level buildings with retail on the ground, office and residential above. Now, this stuff is being delayed and a one-story shopping center is being implemented as "phase one" that "may" break ground early 2010. This project needs to fuel South Euclid for A LONG TIME, and that was the plan. A standard one-story shopping plaza is not going to cut it. I hope that the other phases happen soon and more importantly - that they stay true to what was planned by Coral and South Euclid. With that said, yes, we can be patient and give Coral credit for still moving forward with this project. But this is not a project that can be shafted, as it's INTEGRAL for South Euclid.

^Maybe you should invest in the project and things will speed up.  It is always so easy to spend other people's $$$.

Snap away.  It won't change the reality of the economy.

Snap away.  It won't change the reality of the economy.

 

I am a business owner and I have done 2 major expansions to my facility since 2007 and am now beginning a 3rd expansion this week. We have never had any problems getting financing and nothing has been delayed due to the economy. This "reality of the economy" thing may have stopped some, but where there is a will, there is a way. And beyond that, all those new private sector developments along I-271 from Miles Road on north to Cedar, seem to also be immune to a "reality of the economy". As are the Clinic and UH. As is the public sector (CSU, VA). CollegeTown, InTowne, E. 4th..... all this stuff is continuing quite well AND as planned.

Good for you, and we love your efforts... but you probably aren't trying a multi million dollar retail development.

 

I have first hand watched this econcomy cripple developments ALL OVER the country.

The Cedar Center is not a retail development. It is a project based on EMINENT DOMAIN and RE-DEVELOPMENT. There are many more incentives to the developer. There is also much more support from the city, from the council, from the government to push this forward. Especially since a tax base was killed and that tax funding for the entire city has decreased. Especially since long-time tenants were forced to vacate. And especially since this project involves adding public community space - it then becomes a development that we the residents of South Euclid have a right to be concerned about. The economy, the economy, the economy.. I hear that blaming the economy is the new excuse of the 21st century.

sigh...

Here I am telling my viewpoints and you keep making cheapshot comments towards me. With that said, I'm done with this conversation. Perhaps I'll go watch CNN and get a reality check on how awful the economy really is........

Here I am telling my viewpoints and you keep making cheapshot comments towards me. With that said, I'm done with this conversation. Perhaps I'll go watch CNN and get a reality check on how awful the economy really is........

 

Works for me!

 

Bizbiz is right on.  If this had been done the right way, I'd be more willing to keep quiet.  But the fact is that while the center was not pretty, it had a unique mix of local tenants, and chains, and provided revenues for the city.  This was not good enough for Mayor Welo, and they seized the property, borrowed to have it razed and cleaned, and are now stuck on a piece of land with a developer who's unable to get financing.  Same old story, same old song and dance.  I can live with empty promises from private developers, who commit their own moneys and resources to real estate projects.  But this used government muscle to boot taxpaying tenants, then taxpayer dollars to purchase the property.  Years later we have nothing to show for it but about 3 expired development agreements and tentative plans for a 1st phase.  Congratulations, we now have a theoretical, paper replacement for actual bricks and mortar that you saw fit to condemn, and it only took 6 years to do it.

That's fine.  And if people want to hold disdain for the way they went about obtaining this property and the development of it because of that, no problem.  Everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion and views.

 

But to suggest that it currently isn't getting developed I guess because Coral simply doesn't want to is silly.  The reason the development has been delayed and since broken into phases is the economy and lending environment. Period.

 

And yes, I also think it was deplorable the way they kicked tennants out of a perfectly functioning strip center (even if it was one of the ugliest places on planet earth  :))

 

Can we return now to the development news of this project?  Thanks...

It absolutely is the economy causign the delays, but I fully understand the frustrations with how this project began.  It was a shame to see some successful businesses forced to move or go out of business, only to have a huge vacant lot at a busy intersection that may stay that way for years.

 

Also, to nitpick BizBiz, Cedar and Warrensville is 8.4 miles to Public Square driving (a little less as the crow flies), not 15 miles east of downtown.

Man, I remember going to Cedar Center every other weekend to bowl.  And when I was older I would hit Za Za's across the street (they didn't card!) 

 

Those were the days:(

Man, I remember going to Cedar Center every other weekend to bowl.  And when I was older I would hit Za Za's across the street (they didn't card!) 

 

Those were the days:(

 

We would bowl there as well.  Then get chinese food across the street.

Councilwoman Jane Goodman, in her second  blog post in nearly 2 years:

 

"...the financial investment and incentives being directed toward green building and sustainable housing and energy projects like the ones we're gearing up to bring to the neighborhoods north and east of CC provide a fantastic opportunity to make updating our housing stock and our neighborhoods a new economic driver.

 

People want roomier, more convenient homes than what we have in "bungalowville." We can make those houses not only more user-friendly but also greener, more energy-efficient and environmentally friendly, all of which make them more marketable.

 

So when I say I want to improve our neighborhoods, this is one of the ways I mean to do it – green updates and community gardens and elbow room to spread out a little. I think we could make this area the place to go to see all the new green technologies and materials and designs. And as the work gets done, contractors learn and train workers in green jobs, putting up solar cells and installing geothermal heating/cooling systems and rooftop windcatchers.

 

The timing couldn't be more perfect, now that CC is gaining speed just as the demand for sustainable housing is starting to take off.

 

I know, it seems like we've been at this Cedar Center project a while. We have been. Previous Councils and administrations have been, too. There was a lot of groundwork to be done to get us just to this point. It also seems like you can't take one step forward without first passing some seemingly-disconnected legislation that the state or county or federal government requires us to have in place that gives us the legal right to take that step. In other words, a lot of the legislation couldn't be passed until we first passed other legislation – designations, declarations, it's mind-boggling.

 

And, of course, if you want to use OPM (other people's money) for basic infrastructure improvements, and we do, there are more forms and layers of legislation that have to be on our books before we can go to this funder or that agency for money to pay for things like removing asbestos or cleaning up contaminated soil where a dry cleaner's use to be. Buying the properties, negotiating with dozens of owners, took years. Waiting for tenants to find new space took more. Careful demolition, environmental cleanup and site prep, going on now, takes more. But you can see, it's happening.

 

The new Cedar Center might not be as grand as our grandest wishes for it were a few years ago, when the market and the economy were robust. And it won't all happen at once, as it might have done back then. Under the current economic circumstances, it will come in phases, first restaurants and retail, and residences will come last. It will give us time to work on the neighborhood revival. Time is on our side.

 

Cedar Center proposal in South Euclid increases in size

 

By Jeff Piorkowski

January 14, 2010, 7:45AM

 

SOUTH EUCLID Cedar Center redevelopment plans are moving ahead, in a good way.

 

Preliminary, first-phase site plans submitted by the Coral Co., the local developer of what will be called Cedar Center North on Warrensville Center and Cedar roads, show the company is planning to build about 8,000 square feet more of retail and restaurant space than plans showed in August.

 

New plans call for 34,580 square feet of retail and restaurant space to be developed in the first of four building phases at the site.

 

..................

 

The new plans also show 16-foot-wide “greenways” will be installed in front of, and connecting, each building. The greenways will each include a wide walkway.

 

..................

 

Rubin said the green space is a necessary piece to the puzzle, in that its urban openness creates a destination.

 

..................

 

Finally, three of the first-phase buildings will be constructed closer to Cedar Road than originally planned in order to create more of a street connection and presence.

 

The complete plans can be found on the South Euclid Web site, cityofsoutheuclid.com.

 

FULL STORY: http://www.cleveland.com/sun/all/index.ssf/2010/01/cedar_center_proposal_in_south.html

 

 

Good stuff.  Peter Rubin is a great guy- it won't surprise me to see this development built out fully within the next few years.

Someone fancy restaurants there would be great.

Retail stores - I dunno.  Depends on what they sell.

Residential - no way.

 

Finally, three of the first-phase buildings will be constructed closer to Cedar Road than originally planned in order to create more of a street connection and presence.

 

That's good to hear.  That is my biggest disappointment with the development on the south side of Cedar Road.

Finally, three of the first-phase buildings will be constructed closer to Cedar Road than originally planned in order to create more of a street connection and presence.

 

That's good to hear. That is my biggest disappointment with the development on the south side of Cedar Road.

 

What "development" are you referring to?  Whole Food was built right up to the street and so was University Square.  Cedar Center south was not rebuilt, just refurbished with new facades and signage.

Do not get too excited by the line about being built closer to Cedar Road.  According to the plans, 2 buildings with a combined frontage of approximately 140 feet will be built up to Cedar Road.  They will bookend phase one.  In between these two bookends will be parking lots measuring 120 and 291 feet wide, and an road providing access to the buildings in the middle area of the lot, 200 feet away from the Cedar. 

 

Here is the site plan, with green outlining Phase 1, and red outlining the previously existing structure.

 

It appears the structured parking has been eliminated.  The residential component will really, really help this thing feel cohesive, I think. 

 

hts44121, Whole Foods was build right up to the street, but most of what fronts Cedar is a brick wall and 2 rows of parking.  University Square was built up to the street but doesn't interact with it in any meaningful way.

^Yeah, pretty much what I was thinking.  The site plans looks like garden variety suburban strip, except that a couple "out parcels" might open onto the street.  Not the worst thing ever, but not terribly exciting or innovative either.

Typical Coral stuff...bad...was hoping for more but considering who the developer is.

Typical Coral stuff...bad...was hoping for more but considering who the developer is.

 

 

 

<----------Well not all Coral properties/developments are bad.  he he he

It's interesting to note on the map above that there is quite simply far less square footage for retail in the new Cedar Center than in the old.  I would say as little as half the footprint.  And there's 64,580 sq ft of retail/restaurant space in the complete plan, compared to 177,600 of residential. 

Finally, three of the first-phase buildings will be constructed closer to Cedar Road than originally planned in order to create more of a street connection and presence.

 

That's good to hear. That is my biggest disappointment with the development on the south side of Cedar Road.

 

What "development" are you referring to? Whole Food was built right up to the street and so was University Square. Cedar Center south was not rebuilt, just refurbished with new facades and signage.

 

I am referring to Cedar Center South.  Whole Foods was built up to Warrensville Center Road (and with no access points facing east).  It is set back with a driveway and parking between it and Cedar Road.  The rest of Cedar Center South was refurbished, but surely still part of the entire "development" (development doesn't exclusively mean new construction).  I love the fact that there is a Whole Foods at Cedar and Warrensville.  I don't like how it interacts with the street.

 

For an example of how things can interact with the street and still have parking available, look no further than Lee Road, especially the stretch on the east side between Meadowbrook and Silsby.

It's interesting to note on the map above that there is quite simply far less square footage for retail in the new Cedar Center than in the old. I would say as little as half the footprint. And there's 64,580 sq ft of retail/restaurant space in the complete plan, compared to 177,600 of residential.

 

I think that's good.  The area is certainly saturated with retail.  Bring in new residents!

 

Yuck, what a terrible design.

I think that's good. The area is certainly saturated with retail. Bring in new residents!

 

The area is also saturated with residents though.  As you know, there are no vacant swaths of land or streets of boarded up houses around there.  It is a pretty dense inner ring atmosphere and traffic at that intersection is not the best.  Not that I would oppose it, but I have some skepticism about the type of residences the designs call for.  New condo/apartments don't sell well in the heights area at the moment.  Take the Bluestone Development on Mayfield for example.  They are killing it with the clusters and selling those out shortly after they are built.  But the apartment building is moving really slow and they, in fact, scrapped plans for another building on the east side of the entrance in favor of more clusters or brownstones.  If they really want more residents in that area, they might be better off considering building a dead end street running west-east at the south end of this parcel that would run parallel to streets like Warrendale just to the north.  I realize that would not afford them the first floor retail they are looking for but it may force them to build the commercial structures in a denser manner.