October 5, 200717 yr People who never leave home will hate home! It doesn't matter if it's Cleveland, Chicago, Paris, or whatever. We all understand that. People think I'm insane for leaving Chicago, or better yet, choosing to come back to Cleveland and I tell them, "leave." Also, there seems to be a lot of people who'd rather b*tch about something and stay 'miserable' than change things. I guess they're lazy?? We're all preaching to the choir here but it's the fresh blood and money that will change things. The old blood and money won't jump until 403 people jump before them and they see they might make a profit.
October 5, 200717 yr Here are my gripes: Insular populace Resistance to new ideas Socialized bitching Depressed wages Slow/no economic and job growth I think Cleveland is a great place to live. I think there are improvements to be made, however, and these will come from increased growth -- economically and population-wise. I was at an event for work with people from Phoenix, and they just love it, love it, love it. None of them actually grew up in Phoenix. The common thread I observed was that they loved Phoenix because they were not from Phoenix (how else could you love Satan's version of an easy-bake oven with sand and asphalt?). I think if Cleveland were to enjoy the economic growth of Phoenix, we'd get all these new people and their good vibrations, and it'd be top gear here. I think I agree with pretty much all of this, and the funny thing is that many of the above points are actually inter-related. Spend some time outside of the city and you'll see the problems pretty easily. They lie mostly in citizens' stubborn unwillingess to change and get over this mental block. UNTIL THIS HAPPENS, NOTHING WILL CHANGE! Because of Cleveland's resistance to new ideas, progressive companies aren't willing to locate there because the conservative business environment won't allow them to flourish and blossom. Subsequently and similarly, the liberal, progressive younger professionals that Cleveland SO NEEDS more of aren't willing to locate there because these progressive, out-of-the-box businesses aren't locating there. Many Clevelanders (not all, of course) are so stuck in their own white picket fence suburbia or depression over the loss of their largely meaningless factory jobs that people just aren't willing to move forward and think beyond and, FOR GOD'S SAKE, CHANGE. Cleveland is largely mired in this. It has been for years, and unless people on an individual basis make the choice to change, it will stay this way forever. That's a long time. The region will die unless people at large are finally willing to adapt and evolve. And I'm frustrated (surprised?) because I haven't seen the openness needed for such development in Cleveland my entire life. I want Cleveland to blossom way beyond where it is today. Why does it have to be this piddly little town? Why can't it be a center of progressive ideas and free thinking?? One answer: people won't let it because they don't want it because they're clinging to their comfort zones far too much. Marshes are largely areas of dead activity. There's no life there because water doesn't flow through those areas. It's time for Cleveland to get with the flow. I'm Dick Feagler. Thank you, and good night.
October 6, 200717 yr Nope. Jpop lives in the NYC. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
October 6, 200717 yr Nope. Jpop lives in the NYC. Da Bronx to be exact. I suspect he said that because of some things Feagler said early this year and he not a big fan of the man.
October 6, 200717 yr A lot of people across the country simply don't know any better. After years of Cleveland jokes by Johnny Carson and others back in the 60's and 70's (the fire-on-the-Cuyahoga got lots of mileage in his monologues) many Americans developed a negative view of the city from which it's never recovered. I worked with a woman a few years ago here in New York (herself a native of Los Angeles) who had performed in Ohio a few years before as an actress in a touring company of a Broadway musical. She absolutely raved about Cleveland (Even I had to confirm that she was refering to the Cleveland in Ohio! Although she didn't have the kindest things to say about Dayton). I grew up in nearby Painesville and made frequent visits to the Cleveland Museum of Art. I don't know how many people in even in the Cleveland area know (or frankly don't even care) that this is one of the very finest in the country (soon to get even better with a huge expansion). The Cleveland Orchestra is, according to many critics, arguably the best symphony orchestra in the nation (They will be at Carnegie Hall next week for their annual visit). And well, then there's the Indians. Who is not praying they emerge victorious tomorrow night? After living here many years and having to endure this annual spectacle of boorish Yankee hubris and entitlement, nothing would give me greater satisfaction than watching these whiny, arrogant self-pitying drunkards crying in their stale beer over that calamity! http://www.mainstreetpainesville.org/
October 6, 200717 yr No kidding. I'm in NYC and still completely a Cleveland fan, man. I hate the freaking Yankees.
October 7, 200717 yr Hello all, I often come to the site to do some reading, but this is my first post. I’m originally from NEO, bounced around Cleveland and Akron and everywhere in between, but I left when I was like seven, and unless you count those summers spent at grandma’s house I haven’t lived there since. I have lived in 13 different cities, another country, and done a little traveling. I have a wife who grew up in Italy and two small children. So where am I going with this? We absolutely love Cleveland! Seriously, we can’t get enough of it, and believe it or not I have met a lot of other people that are from all over that feel the same way. I went to college in NC and actually had two profs that raved about Cleveland. One, who was from VA, was a HUGE Tribe fan and spent his summers in CLE. The other was from NC and any time I would talk with him outside of class, it seemed that all he wanted to talk about was Playhouse Square. Even out of the country, I have met people that seemed to really enjoy themselves in CLE. I met a young couple in Brussels, both wearing Rock Hall shirts, that had nothing but good things to say about the city. As a matter of fact, the only negative that I heard while overseas came while I was at a World Cup match in Germany this past summer. I somehow met a girl that had recently visited her sister and brother-in-law in Cleveland; she said she had a great time but complained about the rail system. When I tell my family who still reside in NEO this type of stuff, they are stunned. They, like so many from the area, have some sort of self worth complex. All they point out are the negatives, like NEO is the only place with problems or something, and fail to see all the benefits that the area has to offer. It has been my experience, like other posters here have stated, that people from other parts of the country, or even the world for that matter that have visited Cleveland have nothing but high marks for the city. It’s the local media and local government officials that usually either paint Cleveland in a bad manor, or inhibit the region from garnering more respect. Just some thoughts, take ’em or leave ‘em.
October 8, 200717 yr As a New York native, and someone living in the Cincinnati region, I must say that I enjoyed my time in Cleveland. Believe it or not I even pull for your teams in the playoffs. Not that I am a fan of the Cavs or Indians but as someone who has embraced Ohio, I believe it is good for our sports teams regardless of where they are located to be winning. Although I probably don't follow those thoughts with the Browns because how close of a rival they are to the Bengals but I think you see the big picture. In general though I thing Ohioans have less pride in their state then transplants like myself. That is one of my biggest pet peeves of Ohio. As a former New Yorker we have so much pride in our state, it usually comes across as arogance. I want to see that out of Ohioans. It is time we look at Michigan as New Jersey! j/k :)
October 8, 200717 yr Honestly, I don't find it that New York state residents are prideful. I think NYC has a lot of great pride, the upstate folks have an inferiority complex to NYC. Similar to the Chicago vs. state of ILL; Denver vs. Colorado; Seattle to Washington State; Boston vs Mass. Before I spent time in London and started splitting time in NYC, I thought Cleveland was ass backward in a lot of areas and a city which had lost its way and the citizens/leadership would do whatever to fail despite having all the resources to win. It wasn't till then and traveling quite a bit to realize we have a lot more going on in Cleveland than I gave the city/county/region credit for. As the saying goes, you don't miss what you got, 'till its gone. I guess folks in the area could go away and experience what other cities are going thru, they would see that the grass is not always greener on the other side of the fence.
October 8, 200717 yr Honestly, I don't find it that New York state residents are prideful. I think NYC has a lot of great pride, the upstate folks have an inferiority complex to NYC. Well I am from Long Island so that didn't apply to us. We looked at upstate New York as a different state too.
October 8, 200717 yr Honestly, I don't find it that New York state residents are prideful. I think NYC has a lot of great pride, the upstate folks have an inferiority complex to NYC. Well I am from Long Island so that didn't apply to us. We looked at upstate New York as a different state too. I should have stated, metro NYC (Long Island, North Jersey (201 area code), Westchester and Rockland counties and western CT).
October 8, 200717 yr Sure it does! The rest of new york city has an inferiority complex to long island. :wink: You from east or west? Honestly, I don't find it that New York state residents are prideful. I think NYC has a lot of great pride, the upstate folks have an inferiority complex to NYC. Well I am from Long Island so that didn't apply to us. We looked at upstate New York as a different state too.
October 8, 200717 yr Honestly, I don't find it that New York state residents are prideful. I think NYC has a lot of great pride, the upstate folks have an inferiority complex to NYC. Similar to the Chicago vs. state of ILL; Denver vs. Colorado; Seattle to Washington State; Boston vs Mass. I disagree, upstate doesn't have an inferiority complex to the city as much as it just doesn't like it. Having spent most of the summers of my life in Chautauqua, people from upstate just are annoyed with the fact that the city votes laws like the smoking ban, etc into law, and they are forced to follow them.
October 8, 200717 yr I disagree, upstate doesn't have an inferiority complex to the city as much as it just doesn't like it. Having spent most of the summers of my life in Chautauqua, people from upstate just are annoyed with the fact that the city votes laws like the smoking ban, etc into law, and they are forced to follow them. How does a state law cause a problem?
October 8, 200717 yr The grass will always be greener on the other side ... Cleveland is an awesome city! If only we (3C's) were more unified ...
October 8, 200717 yr Because NYC > Upstate population. They had choices. a vote is a vote. upstate, get over it!
October 8, 200717 yr What? Louder!... The grass will always be greener on the other side ... Cleveland is an awesome city! If only we (3C's) were more unified ...
October 9, 200717 yr Because NYC > Upstate population. They had choices. a vote is a vote. upstate, get over it! I think you can understand his point. what the hell does a new yorker (the city) know about life in Chattaqua or vise versa
October 9, 200717 yr It works both ways. For example: Cincinnati has the same representation at OKI meetings as small town X, which is some bullsh!t. I bet Cleveland is on the same boat.
October 9, 200717 yr Because NYC > Upstate population. In more ways than one! Buffalo is a dump. funny I was just saying the same thing about Cincinnati...
October 9, 200717 yr Because NYC > Upstate population. In more ways than one! Buffalo is a dump. funny I was just saying the same thing about Cincinnati... lol
October 9, 200717 yr No he doesn't. "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
October 10, 200717 yr Because NYC > Upstate population. They had choices. a vote is a vote. upstate, get over it! I think you can understand his point. what the hell does a new yorker (the city) know about life in Chattaqua or vise versa surprizingly quite a bit -- fresh air fund! no, no, no not rilly.
October 10, 200717 yr It works both ways. For example: Cincinnati has the same representation at OKI meetings as small town X, which is some bullsh!t. I bet Cleveland is on the same boat. Here's something that I wrote for a client two years ago about the voting policies of the Northeast Ohio Areawide Coordinating Agency..... _______________ In 2002, NOACA revised its code of regulations to more equitably represent the NOACA region with respect to population: “The goal for representation is to bring to the Board’s discussions and decision-making the principal elected officials and regional administrators of the NOACA area concerned with transportation and environmental planning, while assuring to the area’s citizens an approximation of equal representation by population.” -- NOACA FY2003 Overall Work Program, May 10, 2002 The code revision created a policy under which some members may choose to cast weighted votes. It also added a representative from the Ohio Department of Transportation as a voting member, and several other agencies as non-voting members. Within Cuyahoga County’s representation on the NOACA Governing Board, Cleveland has six of the 19 local governmental weighted votes. That is roughly representative of the population split within the county. However, NOACA, which represents a region of 2.1 million people, has 56 total weighted votes. Of that, Cleveland has less than 11 percent of the weighted votes, while comprising 23 percent of the NOACA region’s population. Another discrepancy has to do with jurisdictional boundaries. No transportation agency in the Greater Cleveland area has a larger purse than ODOT. Yet, the NOACA region is split between two ODOT administrative and planning districts, which have shown differing philosophies. ODOT funding and policy decisions coming out Ashland-based District 3 (covering Lorain and Medina counties in the NOACA region) tend to have a more rural approach may not coincide with those coming out of Garfield Heights-based ODOT District 12, (covering Cuyahoga, Geauga and Lake counties). This further complicates planning and coordination activities for NOACA. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
October 13, 200717 yr I asked my best friend who lives in Illinois about why everyone hates Cleveland. He opined that while Cleveland is an easy target for mockery, no one really acknowledges Cleveland. Other than Drew Carey, the sports teams, and the Rock in Roll Hall of Fame, there is nothing about Cleveland - good or bad - that he and his friends ever discuss. My impression is the same - people don't hate Cleveland; they really just don't care. And that's not really a bad thing. I mean, what the hell do I know about Jefferson City or Little Rock. Other than New York, Boston, Chicago, Dallas, Houston, LA, Vegas, San Fran, and San Diego and a few others, who really cares about cities that you don't live in/near.
October 18, 200717 yr Cleveland doesn't have a national marketing campaign. We have jobs open in the city center that cannot be fillled. It's all about marketing and the people in charge of that for our region are failing us!
December 13, 200717 yr Moving from Chicago to Cleveland... Cleveland has a better reputation there than it does in Cleveland! Cleveland is a great place - I agree, however, the marketing stinks and so do the politicians. get a guy like Mayor Daley and the city could be amazing. And, a great marketing team. For example, I cannot believe how superb the housing costs are versus the part of Chicago where I live. The accessibility of events and places is great - there really are a lot of perks. We had the choice to stay in Chicago (being paid more) or move to Cleveland, and we chose Cleveland. It is a great place for families and you won't sit in traffic 2 hours a day. Count me in as someone who likes Cleveland and hopes it can rebound.
December 13, 200717 yr I'm an NYC guy and I like Cleveland. Much better than several American cities. That being said, I like Cincy more.
December 13, 200717 yr Cleveland doesn't have a national marketing campaign. We have jobs open in the city center that cannot be fillled. It's all about marketing and the people in charge of that for our region are failing us! the problems are a little bit marketing,a little bad luck, but a LOT of problems with people in charge. One day I will really say it all, but there are weasels in this henhouse folks. I had a lovely, sweet night in Cleveland, but it broke my heart to think how this beauty and potential is being abused by the greedy and useless
December 13, 200717 yr Peabody, you're so vague with some of these comments. I sense that you know something, but its a little unfair to dangle it out there like you do. Its not for gossip sake that I'd like to find this stuff out. I'd like to know as an individual who votes and who works with the city
December 13, 200717 yr ^well in all honesty you have done the same (development stuff!) And in fairness, I would be happy to discuss in person my general experience pre and post dewy eyed city dreams, but not on this board. I have already expereinced the repercussions of speaking out-and in fairness it may not be appropriate to speak on this board when the other involved parties will not speak as themselves (rather put sycophants, tools, and assistants up to the job). I respect you as my neighbor and would talk anytime OFF the record as concerned people w/o an agenda. In order to avoid being cryptic, which I agree is unfair on a forum, I will say once in engaged in city affairs we experienced some disturbing treatment as a result of being civically active and empowered. Not something I would expect in a city trying to draw in and retain so called professional people from out of the area. Its a pity really.
December 13, 200717 yr A conversation I had with someone from what was then called the Convention and Visitor's Bureau yielded this nugget: Whenever a large firm (such as Nat City, Key, Eaton) tries to woo a high muckety-muck to come work with them and live in Cleveland, they will of course send a person to meet their target at the airport and host her/him throughout the visit to Cleveland. They just about NEVER have the host be somebody who was born and raised in Cleveland. Instead, they have somebody who moved to Cleveland (out of college or sometime during their adulthood) show off the City's charms. As somebody who was raised in Texas and moved here 13 years ago, I love living in Cleveland, including the effed-up way we put ourselves down.
December 13, 200717 yr I <3 Cleveland Aren't you leaving? Yes, that doesn't mean I don't love Cleveland.
December 13, 200717 yr I <3 Cleveland Aren't you leaving? Yes, that doesn't mean I don't love Cleveland. I though maybe you were being facetious. I saw your other post about how you said you can't wait to leave.
December 14, 200717 yr So .. I read this thing on the PD website that said that the Browns were going to be selling shirts saying "Believeland" on them. First of all .. ugh. I'll let other people continue on the Browns thread and whatnot. But secondly, why do people need to suddenly believe in Cleveland because the Browns or some other sports team or ANYTHING is doing well? Shouldn't we believe in Cleveland all the time? Isn't that the problem the city has??
February 6, 200817 yr I love Cleveland. Too bad I'm at school in this second class city we call Columbus but you cant have everything. At the end of the day I just take a deep breath and thank my lucky stars im not in cincinnati... for those of you who dont know me that was all sarcasm, except for the I love Cleveland. Especialy when our basketball team beats the Celtics.
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