The city I live in, the city I love...

 

 

 

 

 

 

^Are you in?  Good, but there's more...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The density in those first couple shots is incredible!

 

Great set!

I said it on skyscraperpage.com's forum and I'll say it here - the photos are great but there's a special place in hell for the scumbag bottomfeeders that put up this billboard (right up there with the "No Snitch'n" sh!t):

 

These are great...and are, by far, the most urban pictures I've seen of STL.  I especially like those beginning ones, thanks.

I'll take a riverfront over an arch.

^ don't worry, that "no snitching" blip in pop culture has already passed. it'll fade away along with yesterday's "oh snap," "hot minute, " etc. soon enough.

 

another iconic excellent set of pics by jc. he's very good at making stl look interesting.

 

jc in the future and if you know about it -- i would love to see some pics and hear about whats going on with the stl rail corridor, which is the stl version of the manhattan highline.

The more I think back upon my St. Louis trip and the more I see photos of this wonderful city, the more I see a resemblance to Columbus.  The brick, two-flats, the streetscape patterns, the abudance of brick, i.e. stuff like this:

 

 

Must be typical of the 1850 boomers (Columbus, St. Louis, Chicago).

The more I think back upon my St. Louis trip and the more I see photos of this wonderful city, the more I see a resemblance to Columbus.  The brick, two-flats, the streetscape patterns, the abudance of brick, i.e. stuff like this:

 

 

Must be typical of the 1850 boomers (Columbus, St. Louis, Chicago).

 

It reminds me more of D.C. but I've only seen DC in pictures.

..D...C...?

 

*PUNCH*

 

I'm thinking more inline with King-Lincoln or Weinland Park. 

 

i.e.

 

^Yeah, those defiently are Columbus.

Gotcha

Nice set with interesting people pictures as a bonus.

Great stuff and some interesting streets in there.

Nice thread... never been to St. Louis.  Supposed to this year, but well... next year... Very attractive city... I love the brick rowhouses and 2-flats.  I'm always struck by how small St. Louis is, pop-wise.  Seems like its density and high-rise apt/condo buildings would give it more people.

Excellent photo thread!  I haven't been to STL in awhile.  I think it's time I go back.

Nice thread... never been to St. Louis.  Supposed to this year, but well... next year... Very attractive city... I love the brick rowhouses and 2-flats.  I'm always struck by how small St. Louis is, pop-wise.  Seems like its density and high-rise apt/condo buildings would give it more people.

 

Well its a city today of just over 350,000, but in 1950 it had almost 900,000-- all packed into just 61 square miles.  The majority of the city's decline was concentrated on the North Side, so much of the central corridor and South Side remained intact and inhabited.  Another huge factor in decline is the overall reduction in household size, which often gets overlooked.  A 4-flat that housed 6 families in 1950 may only house one or two today, so it's not like the all the remaining buildings are empty.  This goes for many cities in the USA.

I love it when some people shots are added.  Thanks for the tour.

Good old St Louis. Cincy's main competition for best looking city in the Midwest not named Chicago.

Cincinnati has competition?

 

;)

^No, Cincinnati doesn't. We revoked StL's midwestern status until further notice.

^No, Cincinnati doesn't. We revoked StL's midwestern status until further notice.

 

I'll tell you what, we'll send you Buffalo and Rochester in exchange for the Lou, two for one.

What is our gain? ;)

^No, Cincinnati doesn't. We revoked StL's midwestern status until further notice.

 

I'll tell you what, we'll send you Buffalo and Rochester in exchange for the Lou, two for one.

 

Haha, be serious! If this were Monopoly, Cincinnati would be the equivalent of owning Boardwalk with mass hotels. St. Louis is like landing on "go directly to jail". You're gonna have to throw in Syracuse; then we might have a deal.

 

In all seriousness Cincinnati does have SOME competition imo , it's called Pittsburgh ;)

 

Facts:

 

CIN: Hyper-dense downtown

PIT: Hyper-dense downtown

CIN: Lots of in-tact rowhouses

PITT:Lots of in-tact row houses

CIN: Weird ass chili over spaghetti and unGodly amounts of cheese

PITT:Weird ass Primanti burgers with fries and coleslaw

we're basically the same city.

David, I am wondering why you even bothered to respond to this thread if St. Louis is so shitty to you.

Well you did post the thread on urbanOHIO where people express pride in their own state and city and if you've seen other threads, you'll notice I tend to not be politically correct. Dont EVER take everything I say seriously. But really you are a good photographer and I like the humanistic approach you take with your photos. I compared STL to DC and got punched by Colday for God's sake! Give me a break! I admit those English Tudor doubles are really cool and unique looking. I've never seen that done before.

^No, Cincinnati doesn't. We revoked StL's midwestern status until further notice.

 

I'll tell you what, we'll send you Buffalo and Rochester in exchange for the Lou, two for one.

 

Haha, be serious! If this were Monopoly, Cincinnati would be the equivalent of owning Boardwalk with mass hotels. St. Louis is like landing on "go directly to jail". You're gonna have to throw in Syracuse; then we might have a deal.

 

In all seriousness Cincinnati does have SOME competition imo , it's called Pittsburgh ;)

 

Facts:

 

CIN: Hyper-dense downtown

PIT: Hyper-dense downtown

CIN: Lots of in-tact rowhouses

PITT:Lots of in-tact row houses

CIN: Weird ass chili over spaghetti and unGodly amounts of cheese

PITT:Weird ass Primanti burgers with fries and coleslaw

we're basically the same city.

Nah, Cleveland is more like Pittsburgh than Cincy is.

 

But I was speaking of unquestionably Midwestern cities, and Pittsburgh is not generally considered to be a true Midwestern city, and Cincy and the Lou are (though some consider them to have a bit of southern twang to them)

St. Louis is southern and they're going to like it! Oh so Pittsburgh doesn't want to join our midwestern regime. I see how it is!

Cincinnati and Pittsburgh share some similarities (architecturally, building density) but generally Pittsburgh and Cleveland are more comparable.  Cincinnati is really not comparable to any city, which is quite unique within itself.  Perhaps like New Orleans and the South...

You guys are crazy ... I see a lot of Cincinnati in Pittsburgh. I probably (ok, I haven't) been to Pittsburgh as much as you (CDM), but there are too many similarities to mention. Sometimes that's a bad thing, sometimes that's a good thing. Whether we like to admit it or not STL and Cincy do share many similarities.

 

 

... This reminds me, I need to post my STL, PITT, and Toronto pic threads! I was going to photograph Detroit, but I was too scared to get out of the vehicle! j/k! ;)

Really a great tour.  St Louis has so much going for it: wonderful 19th century housing stock; interesting neighborhoods; beautiful, grand public buildings; a couldn't-ask-for-better location; centuries of history; decent public transportation; and the Central West End.  Wish I had spent more time there over the years. 

Love the density shots! 

My very first impression of StL is probably from 35+ years ago, driving through on a trip out West, and stopping to admire the Arch, etc.  There is definitely a "there" there.  I have friends in So. Illinois who continually sing the praises of St Louis, so next visit to them, I'll let them drag me around. 

Personally I especially enjoy seeing other Midwestern cities on Urban Ohio.  Good for comparison, to see strengths, weaknesses, etc and why the whole region is the backbone of the US. 

Your photos certainly captured the "there".

You guys are crazy ... I see a lot of Cincinnati in Pittsburgh. I probably (ok, I haven't) been to Pittsburgh as much as you (CDM), but there are too many similarities to mention. Sometimes that's a bad thing, sometimes that's a good thing. Whether we like to admit it or not STL and Cincy do share many similarities.

 

 

... This reminds me, I need to post my STL, PITT, and Toronto pic threads! I was going to photograph Detroit, but I was too scared to get out of the vehicle! j/k! ;)

 

Physically, sure.  Everything else, no.

... sigh ...

 

similarity

One entry found for similarity.

 

sim·i·lar·i·ty

 

Pronunciation: "si-m&-'la-r&-tE

Function: noun

Inflected Form(s): plural -ties

1 : the quality or state of being similar : RESEMBLANCE

2 : a comparable aspect : CORRESPONDENCE

synonym see LIKENESS

The biggest difference I see is that Pitt is more industrial, like Cleveland whereas Cincinnati's economy is more geared towards consumer products and finance. They're also heavily involved in Materials Technology; Cleveland has a big technology presence too in the Bio-Medical field. The demographics seem more similar to Cincinnati's than Cleveland's though. I could be wrong; I looked up those stats a long time ago.

... sigh ...

 

similarity

One entry found for similarity.

 

sim·i·lar·i·ty

 

Pronunciation: "si-m&-'la-r&-tE

Function: noun

Inflected Form(s): plural -ties

1 : the quality or state of being similar : RESEMBLANCE

2 : a comparable aspect : CORRESPONDENCE

synonym see LIKENESS

 

You do realize that RESEMBLANCE and CORRESPONDENCE are terms that can be used for physical, cultural, historical, ethnic, etc, correct?  Historically, Pittsburgh RESEMBLES Cleveland but physically Pittsburgh RESEMBLES Cincinnati?  Capeche?  I suppose a LaSalle education is an education lost.

There's no reason to bring the Lancer's superiority and good looks into this! I'm right, in what exactly I said and you know it. Take it like a man. ;)

Well, your right is a left in Great Britain, so...

Great pics JiveCity STL. My girlfriend is from St. Lou (North Side) and I just showed your pics to her and she just got super home sick :) Thanks

... sigh ...

 

similarity

One entry found for similarity.

 

sim·i·lar·i·ty

 

Pronunciation: "si-m&-'la-r&-tE

Function: noun

Inflected Form(s): plural -ties

1 : the quality or state of being similar : RESEMBLANCE

2 : a comparable aspect : CORRESPONDENCE

synonym see LIKENESS

 

You do realize that RESEMBLANCE and CORRESPONDENCE are terms that can be used for physical, cultural, historical, ethnic, etc, correct?  Historically, Pittsburgh RESEMBLES Cleveland but physically Pittsburgh RESEMBLES Cincinnati?  Capeche?  I suppose a LaSalle education is an education lost.

 

You hit the nail on the head. Cincy looks more like Pittsburgh, but Cleveland acts more like Pittsburgh.

 

Cincy really is a unique place. In fact, the four major inland river cities in the eastern half of the country, (Pitt, STL, Cincy, and Louisville) are all very much "one of a kinds". Contrast that with the Lake cities, which are a much more homogenous group.

St. Louis is southern and they're going to like it! Oh so Pittsburgh doesn't want to join our midwestern regime. I see how it is!

 

Your joking? STL is NOT southern, it is midwestern buddy.

I'v been to STL, many times.

I don't know...they do tend to have that Southern twang in St Louis.  But then again, so do the lovely folks of Florence Y'all, KY.

St. Louis is southern and they're going to like it! Oh so Pittsburgh doesn't want to join our midwestern regime. I see how it is!

 

Your joking? STL is NOT southern, it is midwestern buddy.

I'v been to STL, many times.

STL is southern because I said so, whether it's southern or midwestern is irrelevant ;)

 

And those wonderful sounding cities like "Florence" "Alexandria" are southern as well. In the case of kentucky, you know you're in the south when you see people light up cigarettes in McDonalds.

I don't know...they do tend to have that Southern twang in St Louis.  But then again, so do the lovely folks of Florence Y'all, KY.

 

You really don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about.  St. Louis is a speech island and has a northern urban dialect, with many features in common with the Chicago dialect.  Famous St. Louisans that speak (or spoke) distinctively "St. Louis":  Harry Caray, John Goodman and Yogi Berra.  Cincinnati and Indianapolis have much more southern-influenced dialects than St. Louis.  Read on:

 

 

 

http://www.ling.upenn.edu/phono_atlas/NationalMap/NationalMap.html#Heading13

 

Here's a summary of a study about the St. Louis dialect done by none other than your neighbors at Ohio State University:

 

http://www.ling.ohio-state.edu/NWAV/Abstracts/Papr135.pdf

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Cities_Shift

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inland_Northern_American_English

 

And the evidence goes on and on and on.  There are countless studies about the St. Louis dialect because it is so unique, and ALL of them conclude that it is a northern dialect.  Not a single study has concluded the contrary.  St. Louis is not to be confused with the rest of Missouri, which definitely does have southern influences.

 

LOL, there you go pulling out that map again. Relax, let the kids bicker back and fourth, it keeps your thread at the top and exposes it to more people.  You are never going to change people's minds.  We both know that by now.

 

You have been fighting that southern perception for years.  FOR YEARS!  David isn't the only one that believes this.  That map is not the final word.  We both know that people in the panhandle of Texas don't speak like those from SW Penn.  Move on and stop trying to fight with everyone that disagrees with you. 

LOL, there you go pulling out that map again. Relax, let the kids bicker back and fourth, it keeps your thread at the top and exposes it to more people.  You are never going to change people's minds.  We both know that by now.

 

You have been fighting that southern perception for years.  FOR YEARS!  David isn't the only one that believes this.  That map is not the final word.  We both know that people in the panhandle of Texas don't speak like those from SW Penn.  Move on and stop trying to fight with everyone that disagrees with you. 

 

Well excuse me, I just think trained linguists know a thing or two more than a bunch of city freaks on an internet forum.  And I don't have to tell you because you know as well as I do that St. Louisans don't speak with a southern drawl.  If you deny that it's only because you have a personal agenda when speaking out on St. Louis-related topics.  There is a difference between disagreement and sheer ignorance. 

 

btw, for checking out my thread though.  I know how much you miss St. Louis. :)

 

You really don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about.  St. Louis is a speech island and has a northern urban dialect, with many features in common with the Chicago dialect.  Famous St. Louisans that speak (or spoke) distinctively "St. Louis":  Harry Caray, John Goodman and Yogi Berra.  Cincinnati and Indianapolis have much more southern-influenced dialects than St. Louis.  Read on:

 

 

 

http://www.ling.upenn.edu/phono_atlas/NationalMap/NationalMap.html#Heading13

 

Here's a summary of a study about the St. Louis dialect done by none other than your neighbors at Ohio State University:

 

http://www.ling.ohio-state.edu/NWAV/Abstracts/Papr135.pdf

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Cities_Shift

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inland_Northern_American_English

 

And the evidence goes on and on and on.  There are countless studies about the St. Louis dialect because it is so unique, and ALL of them conclude that it is a northern dialect.  Not a single study has concluded the contrary.  St. Louis is not to be confused with the rest of Missouri, which definitely does have southern influences.

 

 

What do you want, a cookie?

Jive, if you don't like what a bunch of "city freaks" think then why post on this forum?  I saw your thread last week, does it really surprise you?  Anyway I don't have any desire to debate St. Louis with you, we both have our opinions and that isn't going to change. 

Well excuse me, I just think trained linguists know a thing or two more than a bunch of city freaks on an internet forum.

 

 

It was stated above that the development of American dialects is controlled by two powerful and integrated sets of linguistic changes, the Northern Cities Shift and the Southern Shift, which drive the dialects of the Inland North and the South to ever more extreme forms in diametrically opposed directions. We recognize that the Midland has a very different and less organized character. Each of the Midland cities -- Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Columbus, Cincinnati, Indianapolis, St. Louis, Kansas City -- has its own local character. Each urban dialect itself has developed local tendencies that are uniform throughout the city proper but shared only a limited degree by the hinterland. In Philadelphia we find the regional patterns of the fronting of /uw/, /ow/ and /aw/, the raising of /ahr/ and /ohr/ in a chain shift, and the centralization of /ay/ before voiceless consonants. But only within the city proper do we find the Philadelphia split of /æ/ into tense and lax categories, the near-merger of /e/ and /^/ before intervocalic /r/ in ferry and furry, and the reversal of the direction of the glide in /aw/ from [au] to [eO]. Similarly, the entire area of Western Pennsylvania, centered round Pittsburgh, shares the merger of /o/ and /oh/ the fronting of /uw/ and /ow/, and the vocalization of /l/. But only Pittsburgh itself shows the characteristic monophthongization of /aw/ in house, mountain, etc. Cincinnati shows a traditional split of /æ/ into tense and lax categories not dissimilar to that of New York City (Strassel and Boberg 1995). Here the pattern appears to be eroding in favor of a more general regional pattern of laxing.

 

http://www.ling.upenn.edu/phono_atlas/NationalMap/NationalMap.html#Heading13

Accept it Jive. Cincinnati is it's own nation state and if you think you can summarize Cincinnati down to a tee, then you are very mistaken.

 

According to your own medicine, linguists think that Cincinnati and NYC have similar pronunciation patterns... Question is, do you trust your own methods?

^No argument there.  I just said that based on linguistic studies, Cincinnati appears to have a more southern-influenced dialect than St. Louis.  It also appears to have some New York City influences as well.  Dialects can have multiple influences.  I would be open to any evidence there is that disputes that. 

 

And really, who said anything about "summarizing Cincinnati down to a tee"?  When did I ever do anything remotely like that?

Cincinnati and Indianapolis have much more southern-influenced dialects than St. Louis.  Read on

 

I don't feel like commenting too much in this thread but that is quite incorrect.  Cincinnati's Midland accent is quite similar to those of western Maryland, Pennsylvania (Allentown, particularly), and other infusion of other northern based dialect.  Don't know too many folks from Indianapolis so I'm not commenting on that but I will say that I have met more St. Louis people (particularly African-Americans) who have certainly sounded like they were from Texas moreso than from the North.  Am I saying the accent in St. Louis is more "southern" than Cincinnati?  Don't know, nor do I care.  But it is quite calling the kettle black to say that Cincinnati has more "southern sounding" people than St. Louis. 

 

It's like people in DC telling people in Baltimore they are "more southern."  There's no f_cking point.