And just an fyi, according to the data presented in the map, Cincinnati's Southern Midland dialect actually stems from Philadelphia, of all places and stretches out to Denver.  As shown by this article:

 

http://www.ling.ohio-state.edu/NWAV/Abstracts/Papr135.pdf

 

Which does not once imply Cincinnati (or Pitt/Phila) having a more "southern" accent.  It simply says that the "northern" accent (which is nasal) has had a prominance in St. Louis moreso than the "broadcast English" of Midland, which is more Cincinnati/Pitt/Phila based.  Again, nothing to do with "southern twang" or such.

^No problem.  I really don't make this sh!t up (look at the map).  Professional linguists know about dialectical traits better than any of us.  Don't shoot the messenger.  St. Louis participates in the Northern Cities Shift dialect pattern, Cincinnati does not.  I'm not really sure how anyone can dispute that, but I guess it's pointless anyway.  I have posted links to relatively credible sources that substantiate my claims, yet no one who disagrees with me has posted any to substantiate theirs.  So I guess I will just have to keep my own opinions based on personal observation.

 

btw, African-American dialects are a different animal entirely.  They all have profound southern traits, no matter the city, to varying degrees.

 

This is all very nerdy but interesting, and I am definitely guilty as charged!

Professional linguists know about dialectical traits better than any of us.  Don't shoot the messenger.  St. Louis participates in the Northern Cities Shift dialect pattern, Cincinnati does not.

 

I know that.  I'm explaining to you what they mean.  Northern Shifts Dialect is simply another term for "nasal Great Lakes accent."  Midland accent is just another term for "Newscasters Accent."  Is it any wonder that Pittsburgh (KDKA), Cincinnati (WLW), and Philadelphia, all the firsts in the country regarding television/radio HAVE the accents they have to begin with?  That's that "Midland" accent popping out.  Which means, they don't have "southern accents," they have "South Midland" accents.  Key difference.  And yes, I'm using all this knowledge based on YOUR links.

 

btw, African-American dialects are a different animal entirely.  They all have profound southern traits, no matter the city, to varying degrees.

 

Incorrect.  African-American accents very from region to region.  Cincinnati African-Americans typically have two types of accents: "Twang South" and "Bostonian black" which you'll find in valley areas.  St. Louis blacks typically sound like they are from Texas (probably due to rail lines) and Chicago blacks sound like they are from Alabama.  Blah blah, black folks linguistics one can easily tell as well.  We all don't "talk the same."

You guys also need to know that the TELSUR Telephone survey in which Jive gets his map from (and my source is also from the Telsur Project) made their conclusions on making phone calls.

 

It doesn't stop there ... they made 500 phone calls. Yes folks, 500 ... and it gets even better. The areas that they called were to cities of 200,000+ and certain smaller cities as well. Do you guys know how many cities there are in the US that hold a population of 200,000+? ... ~100. So, if a study is being concluded based on 500 phone calls to over a hundred different cities, how much do you think they studied each city/region?

 

I think calling people in random cities isn't a bad idea, visiting them is even better and more creditable. However if they're going to do it, they should've called a hell of a lot more people than 500. lol

 

 

I've seen Jive pull that map out 100 times, but until now I had no idea how discreditable it was.

 

Jive, this wasn't a knock against you, just the map and study.

CDM, I agree with the black argument.

 

 

In the Memphis area, the black dialect just sounds straight up lazy. In Cincinnati, if you walk up to a black guy and ask where he's from, he'll say Cincinnati, (oHIo) through his nose. That's just my personal observation and one example of many.

 

 

 

*** edited: I didn't mean, "if you walk up to a black..." ... I meant, "... if you walk up to a black guy" ... lol, my bad***

Good points all.  I have always found the Cincinnati accent very interesting.  Like Pittsburgh, it is a true hybrid dialect: some Philly/Baltimore qualities, some gutteral Appalachia, some standard Midwest, all rolled into one.  Trust me, I'm no hater.  But naturally, it does kind of bug me when people assume St. Louisans speak with a southern twang, when in reality the dialect here is much more similar to Chicago and Detroit than it is like Memphis or Louisville.  But I guess I can't blame them; St. Louis has the misfortune of being grouped with the rest of Missourah.

^ No worries man. You're just as defensive about the Lou as we are the Nati. We are a group of people that stick up for our old bitches of the midwest with pride. I'm sure something else will come up sooner or later though. I think our debates are getting shorter and shorter though. It's the newbies that draw the Cincy/STL arguments out. ;)

Man, this feels like SSP in 2004.

 

Monte...where's that broom?  Can you please sweep this conversation away!  :D

LOL!

Now I remember signing that waiver when I moved to Cincy!  The "Northern Cities Shift dialect pattern" waiver.

 

Thats hilarious!

 

St. Louis participates in the Northern Cities Shift dialect pattern, Cincinnati does not. 

"Man, this feels like SSP in 2004."

 

Or SSC in its entire existence.

You have to admit it's fun though.  At least fun enough to bring it to its third page! 

 

Hey, I just thought of a cool idea for a thread: to post a YouTube video of someone who typifies your city's accent.  I think that would be so interesting.

^^ The midwest section on SSP is dead. No one goes there anymore. LMich regulates that section like Northern Korea regulates their internet.

 

SSC does get out of hand more times than not, however there are a lot of interesting convos over there. It is dominated by Indy forumers though. They have no where else to go!

^^ The midwest section on SSP is dead. No one goes there anymore. LMich regulates that section like Northern Korea regulates their internet.

 

Hilarious! Oh and Grasscat I still have the broom image on Pbase

^^ The midwest section on SSP is dead. No one goes there anymore. LMich regulates that section like Northern Korea regulates their internet.

 

Now THAT'S a classic.  Well done!

"Man, this feels like SSP in 2004."

 

Or SSC in its entire existence.

 

...reminds me of my and that Atlanta guys argument with gych about his contention that Louisville was "midwestern".

 

####

 

I will say this about St Louis.  As a native Chicagoan, from the city of Chicago, no connections anywhere else in the US aside from Chicago and Wisconsin, and having relatives in St Louis we would visit now and then....

 

...their, and their kids, accent was not a Chicago accent.  It's not southern (we had relatives in Louisville, too), but it was not Chicago, either.

 

 

 

 

Hilarious! Oh and Grasscat I still have the broom image on Pbase

 

Cool, I may be needing it.

"Man, this feels like SSP in 2004."

 

Or SSC in its entire existence.

 

...reminds me of my and that Atlanta guys argument with gych about his contention that Louisville was "midwestern".

 

####

 

I will say this about St Louis.  As a native Chicagoan, from the city of Chicago, no connections anywhere else in the US aside from Chicago and Wisconsin, and having relatives in St Louis we would visit now and then....

 

...their, and their kids, accent was not a Chicago accent.  It's not southern (we had relatives in Louisville, too), but it was not Chicago, either.

 

I didn't say St. Louisans sounded like Chicagoans.  I said the St. Louis dialect has features in common with the Chicago dialect.  Here's a video of Steve Conway, former St. Louis mayor, now an alderman, and a generations-long native of St. Louis.  This is the quintessential St. Louis City accent: