Since SW seems to prefer a more suburban type of campus layout (ie; Goodyear or Progressive), is it possible that they could be reconsidering the downtown location and instead considering a different site (maybe OC) and selling the Jacobs/Weston properties to a developer?

Edited February 8, 20214 yr by Frmr CLEder

2 hours ago, CLENYC said:

Well then don’t throw out there that’s the latest delay is due to design

I have to say I do agree with you on this point, looking at the timeline of this project It seems unlikely the delay is due to design. Nothing about this project is complex, it’s basic modern office space on a very simple site. Clearly the company is slowing things down, why? Not sure, but it’s not design related if I had to guess. BUT and this is just MY OPINION if it is design related its probably because the company isn’t sure about its scale, which can be good or bad. Good if they wanna bulk it up or bad if they wanna slim things down a bit. We shall see.

2 hours ago, Frmr CLEder said:

Since SW seems to prefer a more suburban type of campus layout (ie; Goodyear or Progressive), is it possible that they could be reconsidering the downtown location and instead considering a different site (maybe OC) and selling the Jacobs/Weston properties to a developer?

 

Don't even start with this.

Thinking this thread will have occasional locks until actual details are revealed.

SHW thread is still locked so idk where else to post this. They uploaded their official proposed site plan: https://www.sherwin-williams.com/buildingourfuture/media-center/

YES! Finally some plans to go off of! 🤩

 

And who knows, that much "FUTURE EXPANSION" bodes well for any and all future skyscraper plans/needs

Edited February 19, 20214 yr by Geowizical

15 minutes ago, tykaps said:

SHW thread is still locked so idk where else to post this. They uploaded their official proposed site plan: https://www.sherwin-williams.com/buildingourfuture/media-center/

Looks like it matches KJP's "rendering" in this article: https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2021/02/sherwin-williams-wont-move-into-new-hq.html

 

Although, there is a cut out that looks like it removes 8-9% of the floor area. That'd translate to an additional 30-50 feet of height over a completely rectangular building. It's also very interesting to me that the footprint has a line through it parallel to W 3rd... could that mean a stepped design? That would also increase height since not all floor plates will be the same.

 

Using KJP's floors and heights and also bumping things up by 8% would give final heights in the ~450-570 ft range. If it's a stepped design presumably the final height would be even higher. For reference, anything 530' or taller would make this the 4th tallest building in Cleveland, I think by definition being right behind 200 public square in the #4 spot would make this "rivaling" it.

Edited February 19, 20214 yr by dastler

4 minutes ago, dastler said:

Although, there is a cut out that looks like it removes 8-9% of the floor area. That'd translate to an additional 30-50 feet of height over a completely rectangular building. It's also very interesting to me that the footprint has a line through it parallel to W 3rd... could that mean a stepped design? That would also increase height since not all floor plates will be the same.

 

Agree 100%

 

I'll go into my renderings and overlay this image and try to calculate a *solid* square footage for reference.... the fact the office tower has that extension piece, like you said, surely confirms a stepped design or at least that maybe the upper half of the building at least has smaller floorplates than the base.

Good eye, @dastler!

 

35 minutes ago, tykaps said:

SHW thread is still locked so idk where else to post this.

 

Simply put - DON'T. This goes for all threads and not singling anyone out - if a thread is locked, it's for good reason. If it needs to be unlocked, send a PM to the Admins and it will be reviewed. Posting materials in non-related threads means the Admins and Mods get to spend time splicing and parsing posts and doing cleanup work (which is not at the top of our list of favorite things). Yes, your heart is in the right place, and we're all excited about the latest news but it's nothing we haven't already heard about - it's just now official.

 

FRIDAY, FEBRUARY 19, 2021

Sherwin-Williams releases site plans--mirrors NEOtrans' info

 

Today, Sherwin-Williams (SHW) released its official site plan for its new global headquarters (HQ) campus in downtown Cleveland. The graphic released by the global coatings giant is virtually identical to one that NEOtrans has been reporting for a month now.

 

The preliminary HQ site plan posted on SHW's official Building Our Future (BOF) Web site is not the only new illustration that was shared by the company. Also provided was a preliminary site plan for the new research and development facility in suburban Brecksville.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2021/02/sherwin-williams-releases-site-plans.html

 

31 minutes ago, MayDay said:

 

Simply put - DON'T. This goes for all threads and not singling anyone out - if a thread is locked, it's for good reason. If it needs to be unlocked, send a PM to the Admins and it will be reviewed. Posting materials in non-related threads means the Admins and Mods get to spend time splicing and parsing posts and doing cleanup work (which is not at the top of our list of favorite things). Yes, your heart is in the right place, and we're all excited about the latest news but it's nothing we haven't already heard about - it's just now official.

I apologise. I'll message the admins in the future.

Quote

But executives also apparently don't want their new HQ to be too boring either. To that end, the tower may also incorporate some color, such as SHW's Color of the Month, rather than just a glass curtain that reflects Cleveland's winter gray.

Is this speculation or is there chatter from the company on this? Because I love it and it would definitely help make the building stand out as more than just a boring glass box

Are there any plans to have any "bridges" over Frankfort or is there going to be structure over the current roadway?  

51 minutes ago, bikemail said:

Is this speculation or is there chatter from the company on this? Because I love it and it would definitely help make the building stand out as more than just a boring glass box

 

This is what HQ design team sources told me.

 

13 minutes ago, plinth857 said:

Are there any plans to have any "bridges" over Frankfort or is there going to be structure over the current roadway?  

 

From what I understand they are planning two pedestrian overpasses. One pedestrian overpass will above West 3rd and will link the Learning Center to the HQ. And an overpass above Frankfort will link the HQ to the parking garage. At least that's the plan right now.

The "learning center" on the Jacobs lot is listed as 50k-80k square feet.  From the released plan, the footprint of the buildings looks to be roughly 170ft by 170ft.  That's an area of 28,900 per floor.  So we're talking a 2-3 story building on the Jacobs lot on Public Square.  Weak sauce.

3 minutes ago, ryanfrazier said:

The "learning center" on the Jacobs lot is listed as 50k-80k square feet.  From the released plan, the footprint of the buildings looks to be roughly 170ft by 170ft.  That's an area of 28,900 per floor.  So we're talking a 2-3 story building on the Jacobs lot on Public Square.  Weak sauce.

Kind of an expensive lot for a 2-3 story building. 

 

Edited February 19, 20214 yr by skiwest

6 minutes ago, ryanfrazier said:

The "learning center" on the Jacobs lot is listed as 50k-80k square feet.  From the released plan, the footprint of the buildings looks to be roughly 170ft by 170ft.  That's an area of 28,900 per floor.  So we're talking a 2-3 story building on the Jacobs lot on Public Square.  Weak sauce.

 

2-3 stories is what I reported in prior articles and what I should have repeated in my latest installment. 

Q4 2021 groundbreaking 👀?!?  I like the sound of that.

Forgive me if I missed something in an earlier post, but is the HQ tower itself supposed to be 1 million sq ft? If so, couldn't we be seeing something taller than 35 stories on that lot? I know there's a lot of speculation on floor area out there...

 

It'd be nice to see something like the F5 Tower in Seattle built. It's 660ft tall, simple yet cool looking, and the total area is around 775,000 sq ft. (The bright one in the center)

Edited February 19, 20214 yr by ASPhotoman

@KJP is it safe to say that the parking garage will not have any ground level retail presence? 

3 minutes ago, ASPhotoman said:

Forgive me if I missed something in an earlier post, but is the HQ tower itself supposed to be 1 million sq ft? If so, couldn't we be seeing something taller than 35 stories on that lot? I know there's a lot of speculation on floor area out there...

 

The tower will be 1 million square feet.

 

 

Just now, cle_guy90 said:

@KJP is it safe to say that the parking garage will not have any ground level retail presence? 

 

The planning team is aware of the city design codes that will require ground-floor commercial space on a main thoroughfare's frontage. Thus West 3rd is considered a main thoroughfare. Frankfort is not.

9 minutes ago, ASPhotoman said:

Forgive me if I missed something in an earlier post, but is the HQ tower itself supposed to be 1 million sq ft? If so, couldn't we be seeing something taller than 35 stories on that lot? I know there's a lot of speculation on floor area out there...

 

Based on the release today, taking the floorplan of the tower literally from the drawings I calculated 32.5k sqft per floor.... 1 million / 32.5k = 30 floors.

30 floors x 15-16 ceilings = 450-480 ft (not new info really).

However, we shouldn't assume the sizes blocked out in this rendering will be the floorplan size of the tower - they could be smaller or larger depending on how high they want to go and given that they are still hashing out tower specifics... I would say though that something higher than 35 stories is unlikely, based on all of the previous info we've seen. Could we get to 500 ft. with a crown? Potentially

 

Edited February 19, 20214 yr by Geowizical

6 minutes ago, cle_guy90 said:

@KJP is it safe to say that the parking garage will not have any ground level retail presence? 

I think I recall reading something recently (perhaps a  prior article by Ken) that per code the garage has to have first floor retail but I was confused by that since the Lumen garage was not going to have retail until PHS was pressed on that issue.

According to the drawing, the tiny bldg on public square is set back from Superior---that's quite horrible if it stays that way.

BTW, I haven't seen the SHW e-mail to employees shared yet anywhere publicly so here it is. I've also added it to the end of my NEOtrans article at....

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2021/02/sherwin-williams-releases-site-plans.html

 

Since announcing our key partners last September, there has been a tremendous amount of work done to progress the Building Our Future (BOF) project. While we took a brief pause last year with the onset of the COVID-19 pandemic, the Sherwin-Williams project team and our partners are fully engaged and making considerable progress. And, though many of you may be working remotely, the Company remains fully committed to building a new global headquarters and a new global R&D center designed to foster our strong culture of community, collaboration, innovation, employee development and engagement.

There are multiple project workstreams underway, all focused on creating a next-generation workplace designed to serve our customers at the highest level, retaining and attracting top talent, and igniting creativity, collaboration and industry-leading innovation. Over these last many months, there has been a remarkable level of collaboration and effort put forth by the BOF team consisting of our key partners, special consultants and Sherwin-Williams employees. But we are really just getting started. With a transition to new facilities by the end of 2024, there is significant work ahead of us.

As a reminder, the planned ~1,000,000 square foot global headquarters will be in downtown Cleveland just west of Public Square between Saint Clair Avenue and Superior Avenue. The planned ~500,000 square foot R&D center will be located in Brecksville, just off I-77 at Miller Road and Brecksville Road. The Company plans to invest a minimum of $600 million to build both facilities. Combined, the two facilities will house more than 3,500 employees with room to accommodate future growth over time. 

We are still working through the site development process and design planning for both facilities. Today we are excited to share proposed site development plans that provide a high-level footprint of buildings, parking and green spaces for each site. Over the coming months, these plans will be refined and reviewed by the City of Cleveland and the City of Brecksville as required by their respective planning and design organizations.

You can view the site plans here. 

Sherwin-Williams has been and will continue to be a proud supporter of our local communities. We are committed to and value inclusion, diversity and equity (ID&E) in our workforce. This ID&E commitment is being extended to our BOF project. We have been working proactively with the cities, community leaders and trade partners to ensure this project positively impacts the local economy by providing workforce opportunities for the community. This includes awarding contracts to minority-owned and female-owned businesses, as well as small businesses. The Company continues to explore in collaboration with our partners how we can apply our ID&E approach to a broad spectrum of project activities.

Based upon the work completed to date, we expect to submit design plans to each city during the second half of 2021 with a goal of breaking ground at both sites no later than the fourth quarter of this year. 

This is a multi-year project and as such, there will be key milestones along the way. While we don’t have all of these defined today, we will continue to provide employees regular updates as new information becomes available. In the meantime, for the most current information related to the BOF project, please visit BuildingOurFuture.com. 

I know this last year has been challenging on many fronts and I appreciate your efforts in maintaining the health of each other and that of the Company. Thank you for all you do to meet the needs of our global customers and ensure their success.

 

###

I just don't get the idea of the 2-3 story "learning center/museum"  on the public square lot - why not just incorporate that into the HQ?  Maybe I'm seeing the NEO trans map wrong, but the tower seems to be setback on an angle towards West 3rd street - and I don't see that on the SW site where it seems flush to the street.

 

Seems like really positive news with the notion that the rectangular glass box might not be literally what they want - that the previous massing was just representative of the total square footage.  If there's at least some shaping or even curvature they're leaning towards - that will likely add height and more interesting dimensions.  Also, the idea of incorporation of some color could be really cool.  They also state there will be communication with the city's planning commission  - so maybe they'll be a chance for some meaningful feedback prior to the final design submission. 

 

Great news that they intend to start Q4 of this year!  

ten bucks says this excellence center has a blank wall facing public square

9 minutes ago, CleveFan said:

I just don't get the idea of the 2-3 story "learning center/museum"  on the public square lot - why not just incorporate that into the HQ?  Maybe I'm seeing the NEO trans map wrong, but the tower seems to be setback on an angle towards West 3rd street - and I don't see that on the SW site where it seems flush to the street.

 

 

The NEOtrans map has the BOK Park Plaza tower as a placeholder and that building is sited at an angle to the surrounding streets. The outline of the HQ office tower in SHW site plans may or may not be taken literally. I just don't know. The tower could rise straight up a few feet from the NW corner of West 3rd and Superior. Or there could be a pedestal of a few floors a few feet from that same street corner, with the tower setback from the corner of the pedestal. Or it merely represents the general area of the proposed tower. But if that's the case, then why have the notch in the HQ tower outline on Frankfort? I guess we'll find out once we get past these early stages.

 

I am grateful, however, that SHW is being a little more forthcoming in what it has in mind for the HQ+R&D. Nature abhors a vacuum.... 

37 minutes ago, Whipjacka said:

ten bucks says this excellence center has a blank wall facing public square

where we hang new SW banners from??? ;) 

1 hour ago, skiwest said:

Kind of an expensive lot for a 2-3 story building. 

 

It really makes zero sense.   I don't get it.  Why buy that lot then?  

Maybe that notch is the second main entrance. Maybe they accommodated plans by whatever development partner to turn Frankfort into a pedestrian street ala East 4thish. And so the pedestrian alley could accommodate alfresco dining and other shops, funneling towards the 2nd main entrance. That super block will need a friendly pass through. I suspect they have super cool plans for Frankfort. Especially important if a hotel is going to be an element, centered around SHW biz travelers/employees/traineees. 

I'm a little concerned about the areas "to be developed by others and/or held in reserve for future expansion".  Those could be surface parking lots for several more years.

Maybe it's an outdoor break area

My guess on the notch is loading/executive garage entrance.  But its so early in the process it could end up looking completely different.

29 minutes ago, fuel1411 said:

where we hang new SW banners from??? ;) 

Some kind of “notice” that this is SW no doubt. Currently one would never know SW is headquartered in CLE.

Another key factor to keep in mind is lighting. How it will be illuminated at night. Comparing our two most recent high-rise developments: during the day, I like the appearance of The Lumen over The Beacon. At night, The Beacon stands out way more with its distinctive lighting as opposed to the Lumens abscence of any lighting. 
Obviously we all want it to look great any time of the day. But just like how a few beers can bring another persons appearance from a 4 to a 9, the lighting can surely do the same.

1 minute ago, CLENYC said:

Some kind of “notice” that this is SW no doubt. Currently one would never know SW is headquartered in CLE.

A "Cover The Earth" mural facing Public Square thats all inclusive and such would actually be really neat! Obviously spitballing off the blank wall facing PS that's a joke - but this wouldn't be a bad presence! I'm sure they have ideas! They know the direct impact that this project will have on downtown CLE :) 

4 hours ago, tykaps said:

SHW thread is still locked so idk where else to post this. They uploaded their official proposed site plan: https://www.sherwin-williams.com/buildingourfuture/media-center/

Great actual news. Now we wait for final plans and size of these buildings. 

the tower will look fine even if its uninspired. 500' tall glass buildings always at least look okay.  I really hope we don't get a slightly bigger version of this on public square:

17 minutes ago, skiwest said:

I'm a little concerned about the areas "to be developed by others and/or held in reserve for future expansion".  Those could be surface parking lots for several more years.

 

or decades if SHW holds them and won't let others develop them. I have this fear too.

29 minutes ago, marty15 said:

Maybe that notch is the second main entrance. Maybe they accommodated plans by whatever development partner to turn Frankfort into a pedestrian street ala East 4thish. And so the pedestrian alley could accommodate alfresco dining and other shops, funneling towards the 2nd main entrance. That super block will need a friendly pass through. I suspect they have super cool plans for Frankfort. Especially important if a hotel is going to be an element, centered around SHW biz travelers/employees/traineees. 

 

If you read what the design team has in mind for the parking deck, don't expect anything from the parking deck façade along Frankfort. If it wasn't for the city's building codes, sources say they wouldn't have considered a ground-floor commercial use on the West 3rd side of the deck. So far the sources have been pretty spot on.

4 minutes ago, Whipjacka said:

the tower will look fine even if its uninspired. 500' tall glass buildings always at least look okay.  I really hope we don't get a slightly bigger version of this on public square:

 

Good God that is ugly! What the hell is it?

 

3 minutes ago, Whipjacka said:

the tower will look fine even if its uninspired. 500' tall glass buildings always at least look okay.  I really hope we don't get a slightly bigger version of this on public square:

 

37 minutes ago, marty15 said:

Maybe that notch is the second main entrance. Maybe they accommodated plans by whatever development partner to turn Frankfort into a pedestrian street ala East 4thish. And so the pedestrian alley could accommodate alfresco dining and other shops, funneling towards the 2nd main entrance. That super block will need a friendly pass through. I suspect they have super cool plans for Frankfort. Especially important if a hotel is going to be an element, centered around SHW biz travelers/employees/traineees. 

 

I agree that northern super block should have a passthrough, but it doesn't look like SW is planning to make that happen.  In my opinion, that parking garage shouldn't go so far west, instead push it north, so that a pedestrian passageway can run north-south near the middle of the block.  I suspect SW doesn't want to do that bc zoning would require the frontage on St. Clair to have storefronts (which is good for urbanity, but not what SW specializes in).  I haven't seen much from SW or KJP to indicate the company is doing much to make their buildings welcoming to the street level pedestrian.  

@KJP Do those areas for future development/expansion have anything to do with the rumored spin off developments the HQ is supposed to catalyze?

Edited February 19, 20214 yr by Ineffable_Matt

3 hours ago, bikemail said:

Is this speculation or is there chatter from the company on this? Because I love it and it would definitely help make the building stand out as more than just a boring glass box

Ooh - A color changing tower -- sort of like the Terminal Tower LED light displays only in the daytime.   Active color coatings.   Now, we are cooking with gas! 

Maybe a "shape-shifting" tower is the next consideration?  Good things happen to he/she/they who waits.   

 

   

33 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

If you read what the design team has in mind for the parking deck, don't expect anything from the parking deck façade along Frankfort. If it wasn't for the city's building codes, sources say they wouldn't have considered a ground-floor commercial use on the West 3rd side of the deck. So far the sources have been pretty spot on.

Well, even the south end of East 4th is for vehicular traffic to get to the valet parking  station. So maybe something similar can happen.

 

Do you want your employees walking down a bare, narrow alley to go to and from West 6th? Should this get built out? I have a hard time thinking someone on the development team would overlook this. 

1 minute ago, marty15 said:

Well, even the south end of East 4th is for vehicular traffic to get to the valet parking  station. So maybe something similar can happen.

 

Do you want your employees walking down a bare, narrow alley to go to and from West 6th? Should this get built out? I have a hard time thinking someone on the development team would overlook this. 

This I would think would also make all the rest of the property they own much more marketable. As opposed to having it’s complete back facing west 6th.

Edited February 19, 20214 yr by marty15

The cut out and the line that goes through the office tower footprint makes me think its going to be some sort of podium with the vast majority of "glass box" tower along W3rd. What is the square footage of the part of the box to the right of the cutout/line? Or is that the area that was already calculated by @Geowizical for your estimates?