Regarding a new hotel as  part of the SW campus, I’d be surprised if we don’t hear something in the short term. Last year, @KJP reported that SW already had enough training sessions occurring to fill 100 hotel rooms a night for a year.  And that number was expected only to increase.  
 

With vaccines expected to be available to all Americans by the summer, a new normal will return - and with it, a return to in person meetings, trainings and so on.  
 

If you had just invested in fancy downtown digs, would you rather send all your guests “across the square” ( or further) for accommodations or keep them in your own super modern urban campus? I would think SW desires a “home base”  modern hotel to pair with its equally modern offices. And that scenario will be extremely motivating for a high end hotel developer - a guaranteed baseline of bookings year round, despite weather. 
 

And hopefully, that pre Pandemic trend of annual visitors to Cleveland will return as well - it had reached some 19.2 million in 2019, nearly doubling in a decade. That may take some time, but development is based on the expected future - not the temporary present. 
 

I would’ve loved to have seen that new hotel on the Jacobs lot -now that we know the main HQ is set back - especially if it was the scale of the 600 room Hilton - but even if smaller - it would’ve definitely increased pedestrian activity on the square. But as long as it’s part of the SW campus, it will be a big win! 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 25, 20214 yr by CleveFan

With the IX Center closed, more events will now need to be held at Huntington Convention Center.  That should result in an increase in downtown visitors as well as an increase in hotel occupancy.

1 hour ago, plinth857 said:

 

Doesn't Sherwin Williams have a real estate "arm?"

 

Considering they own the Landmark Office Towers, I imagine they probably would have to, no?  It makes sense to me that they would be thinking of more than just their headquarters buildings.

 

Yes. Not only do they own their downtown building, but they have tenants who pay rent to their real estate office.

 

They also have an office of Midwestern engineering and construction located in Strongsville of all places.

Didn’t @KJPreport that the training center on PS would be roughly 2 to 3 stories? Someone did I thought, sorry if it wasn’t you Ken. Regardless, that cannot be the final grand plan for that piece of land. I’m beginning to believe the ultimate plan is to build the high end hotel ONTOP of the training center. Keep everyone in one building. With a potential skywalk connecting to the main tower. 

Yes, two to three stories on Public Square. And I have not heard a whisper about anything being built on top of it. The example cited was a larger version of the Devon Energy Auditorium in Oklahoma City. 

 

40 minutes ago, skiwest said:

With the IX Center closed, more events will now need to be held at Huntington Convention Center.  That should result in an increase in downtown visitors as well as an increase in hotel occupancy.

 

Spot on.

4 hours ago, Whipjacka said:

 

Is this supposed to be a blank wall facing PS?

Edited February 26, 20214 yr by Frmr CLEder

On 2/25/2021 at 7:29 PM, Frmr CLEder said:

Is this supposed to be a blank wall facing PS?

That's not an official plan view for SW. Its an example of an auditorium from another complex and how it could fit on the Jacob's Lot. When built there could definitely be a blank wall facing the square, but we know nothing for now.

Edited February 28, 20214 yr by Mov2Ohio

Interesting article in Cleveland.com today, I'm not completely sure about the rules of posting articles so I will leave it to those that know...

 

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2021/03/cryptic-site-plan-for-sherwin-williams-headquarters-reveals-important-questions-that-call-for-public-input.html

 

@cfdwarrior just let er rip!

 

Litt addresses pretty much all of the concerns we've had. For as bad as the Center for Excellence or whatever its called is, the parking garage sounds horrible as currently proposed.

Edited March 1, 20214 yr by Ineffable_Matt

Its a paint museum

9 minutes ago, ogibbigo said:

Its a paint museum

 

🙄

52 minutes ago, ogibbigo said:

Its a paint museum

 

Cue the new Cleveland jokes about being so boring it's "like watching paint dry" 

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/sherwin-williams-announces-resignation-of-president-and-chief-operating-officer-301237785.html

 

Sherwin-Williams Announces Resignation of President and Chief Operating Officer

 

CLEVELAND, March 1, 2021 /PRNewswire/ -- The Sherwin-Williams Company (NYSE: SHW) ("Sherwin-Williams" or the "Company") today announced that David B. Sewell, President and Chief Operating Officer, has notified the Company of his decision to resign effective as of the close of business on March 12, 2021, to become chief executive officer of another company outside of the coatings industry.

 

1 hour ago, dave2017 said:

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/sherwin-williams-announces-resignation-of-president-and-chief-operating-officer-301237785.html

 

Sherwin-Williams Announces Resignation of President and Chief Operating Officer

 

CLEVELAND, March 1, 2021 /PRNewswire/ -- The Sherwin-Williams Company (NYSE: SHW) ("Sherwin-Williams" or the "Company") today announced that David B. Sewell, President and Chief Operating Officer, has notified the Company of his decision to resign effective as of the close of business on March 12, 2021, to become chief executive officer of another company outside of the coatings industry.

 

 

Hope Sewell wasn't KJP's source!

I have to head back to California for a bit so I decided to stop in OKC and get some quick shots of SW HQ spirit animal aka BOK/Devon Energy.  Especially how they relate at the street level and the Devon Auditorium thing.  I wanted to see how that all meshed and I have to say, if we're going to get a boring glass box, let it be by these guys.  Stuff looks very good up close which is rare with glass boxes.  Given our top 3 are not 'glassy', and really none of ours are outside of the black glass of Erieview, I can live with it.  It's not the tower we want but its the utilization of those lots we deserve.  Reporting livish from Route 66. -holden

34 minutes ago, Pugu said:

 

Hope Sewell wasn't KJP's source!

They got the leaker!! 

26 minutes ago, FerrariEnzo said:

I have to head back to California for a bit so I decided to stop in OKC and get some quick shots of SW HQ spirit animal aka BOK/Devon Energy.  Especially how they relate at the street level and the Devon Auditorium thing.  I wanted to see how that all meshed and I have to say, if we're going to get a boring glass box, let it be by these guys.  Stuff looks very good up close which is rare with glass boxes.  Given our top 3 are not 'glassy', and really none of ours are outside of the black glass of Erieview, I can live with it.  It's not the tower we want but its the utilization of those lots we deserve.  Reporting livish from Route 66. -holden

 

@FerrariEnzo - Thanks for the images and field reporting! These images of this building are so cold and lifeless. No street-level anything---not even a coffee shop. I really hope something like this isn't destined for us.

Oh Lord, Devon Energy & BOK Park Plaza Towers! (supposedly inspiration for S.W. in the CLE) Together they are Le Corbusier's ice-cold dream made real 👎
Nice materials, but they are a contemporary iteration of LeCorb's Towers in a Park concept + giant garages. 
- "Stand back! These structures are only meant to interact with you from a distance."

Edited March 2, 20214 yr by ExPatClevGuy

Wow. I can't quite explain why I dislike this so much. There's so many overlapping bad elements it's almost overwhelming. 

Edited March 2, 20214 yr by surfohio

oh geez now with that reality i'm depressed, so anti-urban and out of style, but thanks anyway it absolutely needed to be seen.

 

unfortunately this is all pickard is capable of, their creative vision ends in the early 1980s.

 

at least even with lowered expectations there is a bright side to have the lots gone regardless and that is the main thing. 

 

and lets keep hope alive, they could still pull something great out of the hat, we just don't know.

^Didn't someone say at one point that street-level retail is required along W3?

15 minutes ago, mrnyc said:

oh geez now with that reality i'm depressed, so anti-urban and out of style, but thanks anyway it absolutely needed to be seen.

 

unfortunately this is all pickard is capable of, their creative vision ends in the early 1980s.

 

at least even with lowered expectations there is a bright side to have the lots gone regardless and that is the main thing. 

 

and lets keep hope alive, they could still pull something great out of the hat, we just don't know.

 

Perhaps if someone with mad skillz could place @FerrariEnzo's Devon images into a real city we could get a better appreciation of how this would/would not interact in an urban setting? 

 

Also it's a little uncanny how Devon looks a lot like the Polymer Science Building and EJ Thomas Hall at the University of Akron. 

10 hours ago, surfohio said:

Wow. I can't quite explain why I dislike this so much. There's so many overlapping bad elements it's almost overwhelming. 

Same I hate it, what a mess. I’ve only seen skyline pics of this OKC building but never ground level. It’s really bad.

We aren't building the Devon Center here in Cleveland.  Let's keep this to SW itself.

Based on everything so far it seems like the massing and form will be a lot like the BOK Building- with the connected conference space like Devon.  In which case it will look almost identical to the Federal Building on 9th.  Not great when your architectural comparison is a 50+ year old building built by the federal govt.  Even with the new facade, this is an extremely low bar.  Plus, designs get whittled down through the development process.  They almost never get more ambitious.  This is a real bummer.

 

Didn’t KJP’s article state that the planners are thinking about adding colors and something on top so it’s not a plain glass box? We don’t even have official details yet. You guys jump to way too many conclusions.

I realize that commenting on the Federal building in the SHW page is verboten but l just can't help myself. It drives me frickin bananas that the new outside wall is incomplete on two sides. It says something about how we do things in this country today when government officials sign off on work like this. It's the kind of crap you see in 3rd world countries. Rant over. Thank You.

I'll have another SHW article by the end of the week to provide some more specifics on the SHW HQ design -- and to answer some of the questions Litt asked in his column.

5 hours ago, KJP said:

I'll have another SHW article by the end of the week to provide some more specifics on the SHW HQ design -- and to answer some of the questions Litt asked in his column.

Besides the questions he asked that you had already answered? (E.G. retail fronting on W3rd) 😀

In general I'm baffled by the intense secrecy of this project from the SW side of things. In addition, the clearly obtuse perspective related to not building the HQ tower on Public Square doesn't make much sense. Isn't this phase of a company the "fun" of being a Fortune 500 company spending millions of dollars in the City you've grown within for over one hundred years?

It reminds me of the General Growth HQ in Chicago. Rumor has it the owners were so financially set they didn't mind the clearly "non-highest and best use" nature of their 4-story, Chicago River fronting, Wacker address. They thought of its under utilized nature as a badge of honor.

In the long run I hope things work out better for SW on the square than GGP on the Chicago River (GGP was one of the largest bankruptcies  in US history in 2009).

 

https://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20170413/CRED03/170419940/bank-of-america-to-move-to-ggp-site-on-wacker-drive

I agree.  This whole thing is bizarre- the secrecy, the poor choices.  None of what they're supposedly doing makes sense within the context of what we know they are doing.  And why the secrecy?  They're building a corporate HQ, not the new CIA black ops training center.  They already have the site wrapped up.

39 minutes ago, X said:

They're building a corporate HQ, not the new CIA black ops training center. 

 

They could tell us, but then they'd have to kill us.

The only thing I can imagine is that they would build this paint museum with the intent of eventually (25 years) building another tower on Public Square for expansion. From a master plan perspective I suppose it makes sense to have the larger cluster of land developed first, then spreading to the smaller parcel (Public Square). If this was true I would hope they explain it when conceptual design is presented to the public.

Edited March 3, 20214 yr by w28th

If you are thinking about convenience for the employees, the positioning makes perfect sense.  As much as we want SW to be thinking about walkability and neighborhood impact, SW executives answer to its shareholders and to its employees.  SW still needs to convince its employees that coming back into the office is necessary and worthwhile--something that I don't think is necessarily easy after people have been accustomed to working from home for the past year.  So, if you swap the learning center and tower, the employees must first walk through the learning center every day to get to their office.  Effectively doubling the walk from the garage for every single employee, every single morning and afternoon.  If you put the tower on PS and the garage where the tower is located, then you have to walk through the garage just to get between buildings, another inefficiency.  

 

The real impact of SW's headquarters being downtown is that it brings people to live and work downtown.  And, I see the building positioning as the C-suite/design team looking out for their employees who may not want to start commuting into the office again.  The other big point here, is that the office tower on Superior can have larger floor plans, which allows for more floor space with fewer levels, making the building more cost efficient (providing value to the shareholders).  This building arrangement also permits that nice setback in front of the learning center, allowing more room for pedestrians and providing a larger walkway from the tower to public square.  

 

Edited March 3, 20214 yr by smimes

Kudos for elevating the dialogue on this thread, Smimes.

 

Smimes is exactly right when it comes to cost-effectiveness. Whenever I ask sources why SHW is considering doing this or that, the answer is usually to save money.

  I do understand the cost effective approach to the HQ, But.......I still think it would be a squandered opportunity to have a truly iconic HQ.  How much of a group decision is this project?  Is there a panel of people that will make the decision on how this project plays out, or is there a final single person that gives the stamp of approval?  Will the resignation of the COO have any impact on this project?  Could he have had a large impact on what was being built or is it a panel reminiscent from the movie Trading Places that is making the decisions?  I am hoping that there are alternate plans that are being worked up that may be more pleasing and functional to the surrounding urban landscape which could possibly be still an option.  

Edited March 3, 20214 yr by cfdwarrior
punctuation

Right now, exterior design alternatives are being presented to C-suite execs. I don't know where that list begins but I'm pretty sure it ends with CEO Morikis. He is The Man.

@smimes  I'm delighted they are working in support of their shareholders and employees, yet those two groups don't exist in a vacuum.  They are also part of our wider community.

When it comes to this project, the taxpaying citizens and all residents of Greater Cleveland are the third leg of this stool.

 

With over $100 Million in tax incentives given by City of Cleveland taxpayers alone; PLUS incentives from Cuyahoga County residents and the people of Ohio, Sherwin Williams has these groups to consider for their design product in the solar-center of Cleveland's architectural orbit.    

It would be no different in any city where they might have chosen to operate.

 

Edited March 3, 20214 yr by ExPatClevGuy
grammar / detail

2 hours ago, w28th said:

The only thing I can imagine is that they would build this paint museum with the intent of eventually (25 years) building another tower on Public Square for expansion. From a master plan perspective I suppose it makes sense to have the larger cluster of land developed first, then spreading to the smaller parcel (Public Square). If this was true I would hope they explain it when conceptual design is presented to the public.

If they are so cost-conscious, perhaps they should sell off the Jacobs lot to someone who is willing to build something more significant on that site.  If future expansion is a possibility, they could construct the parking garage to accommodate building on top of it.   

21 minutes ago, skiwest said:

If they are so cost-conscious, perhaps they should sell off the Jacobs lot to someone who is willing to build something more significant on that site.  If future expansion is a possibility, they could construct the parking garage to accommodate building on top of it.   

 

This is what doesn't make sense to me.  They have plenty of room on the Warehouse lots to build what they desire if cost is such a big deal.

17 minutes ago, cle_guy90 said:

 

This is what doesn't make sense to me.  They have plenty of room on the Warehouse lots to build what they desire if cost is such a big deal.

Might have bought that lot to ensure nobody else develops it and blocks their view and sunlight. I know it's stupid and NIMBY-ish but idk what else could be their reason at this point.

2 hours ago, ExPatClevGuy said:

@smimes  I'm delighted they are working in support of their shareholders and employees, yet those two groups don't exist in a vacuum.  They are also part of our wider community.

When it comes to this project, the taxpaying citizens and all residents of Greater Cleveland are the third leg of this stool.

 

With over $100 Million in tax incentives given by City of Cleveland taxpayers alone; PLUS incentives from Cuyahoga County residents and the people of Ohio, Sherwin Williams has these groups to consider for their design product in the solar-center of Cleveland's architectural orbit.    

It would be no different in any city where they might have chosen to operate.

 

 

Look, I agree with you that SW is part of the community and should be making every effort to interface their building with the community as a whole, especially considering the subsidies they are getting.  And considering that it's been reported that they will conform to the Urban Overlay zoning on W3, I think they are making reasonable efforts here.  But I am not aware of any particular subsidy being contingent on any particular design plan.  If the City of Cleveland (or County or State) wanted the tower built on the Jacobs lot, then they would have made the subsidies contingent on that fact.  But to our governments (which represent the community), it doesn't matter whether the tower is built on the Jacobs lot or the W3 lot.  They just care that it is being built to retain the jobs in the region/downtown.  The tower being located 200 ft from PS doesn't change the transformative impact that this development will have for the City (or County or State) either financially or for the walkability/vibrancy of this area.  

 

By the nature of corporate governance, the priorities of any CEO is to the company first.  The c-suite reports to the Board of Directors, who are elected by the shareholders.  If the shareholders are unhappy, they can elect new Board members, who can ultimately fire the c-suite.  Plus, compensation of the c-suite is usually closely tied to shareholder performance.  I guess I'm confused as to why you think these decisionmakers are beholden to some unknown and vague requests by a few members of the community, rather than to their employees and doing what makes most sense financially for the company. 

 

In regards to why even buy the Jacobs lot at all:  SW considers this as their "next 100 year home," so given the opportunity to make one contiguous footprint, why wouldn't SW buy the land next to them?  Moreover, the learning center is for trainings and other events that bring people to Cleveland.  Having this building on PS showcases PS and the city to these visitors.  

Edited March 3, 20214 yr by smimes

A minority opinion in this forum for sure but I like the training center on the square.  First - I think the visual impact of the step back (low to high) will be interesting visually (rather than hiding the training center behind the tower - you'll be able to see both new structures from the square).  Second, seems the training center (as a significantly shorter building) will inspire more folks inside to easily walk outside for breaks.  Especially as it's more likely to be filled with people not in the facility on an everyday basis.

 

I agree @OldEnough. The step-back is fine. In fact it may even turn out to be the inspired choice for improving on light & shadow and the balance with structures that surround The Square, but all things with a deft touch.

The human scaling of the structure where it meets the street (and the considered harmony of the entire SW campus in composition) is not something to suffer in toto at the expense of inward looking corporate interest. I don't predict for SW to present a design that rejects the street or the square. Still, they should be on notice by public officials that whatever structure opens directly out to Public Square, it should not diminish the elegant aspirations of Cleveland's preeminent public park and its historic surroundings.

Edited March 3, 20214 yr by ExPatClevGuy

I was also thinking that having the shorter building adjacent to Public Square may not be a bad thing, especially if it would be similar in height to the Renaissance or the front section of 200 Public Square.  Having the shorter building on the Square can prevent some of the issues noted with the ground level interface of tall imposing buildings.   Still, a two story building might look a little odd unless those two stories are tall ones and visually interesting. 

  

If your goal is to build a new HQ in the most cost effective manner in order to protect shareholder value then why would you buy the most expensive acre in Cleveland?  I get trying to do a thing on a budget, and I get creating a signature corporate statement cost be damned.  I don't get doing half of one and half of the other.

How is a multi-billion dollar company keeping secrets so well. Some sort of espionage must be going on, unless their circle is that tight? For something as simple as design choices for an HQ should probably be publicly made and publicly decided. Everyone knows it's HQ'd in Cleveland so why the big fuss about secrecy? Surprise?