Just look at this dynamic and ultra modern skyscraper coming to SoBro in Nashville. Plans were released today to the Nashville media. 😲

 

It's one of several new towers going up there.

 

Wouldn't it be amazing if Sherwin-Williams were to surprise Cleveland with something as equally dramatic?

 

We can all DREAM ... Can't we? 🤔

It would be great for a wavy Lake Erie aspect. However, I always feel any company conjuring a building or skyscraper should atleast hone in on the identity that Cleveland and Northeast Ohio has laid in History; Steel, Shipyards, Railyards, Freshwater Lake/River, Rubber/Polymer/Paint, and Vegetation. We've sort of deviated from every aspect of what already made Cleveland great. We used to be the 'Forest City', we were 'The Sixth City', and even Euclid Ave. doesn't look too rich anymore. We need to prioritize what people want rather than what corporations and city planning wants, it may seem like a good deal but the last draft will always be smaller with less aspects of what makes Cleveland great.

 

IF SHW reads this thread, please return us to our grassroots, and focus on why and what makes Cleveland great.

Edited April 21, 20214 yr by tastybunns

3 hours ago, tastybunns said:

It would be great for a wavy Lake Erie aspect. However, I always feel any company conjuring a building or skyscraper should atleast hone in on the identity that Cleveland and Northeast Ohio has laid in History; Steel, Shipyards, Railyards, Freshwater Lake/River, Rubber/Polymer/Paint, and Vegetation. We've sort of deviated from every aspect of what already made Cleveland great. We used to be the 'Forest City', we were 'The Sixth City', and even Euclid Ave. doesn't look too rich anymore. We need to prioritize what people want rather than what corporations and city planning wants, it may seem like a good deal but the last draft will always be smaller with less aspects of what makes Cleveland great.

 

IF SHW reads this thread, please return us to our grassroots, and focus on why and what makes Cleveland great.

 

I disagree. If I'm spending my money it should be about what I want or need within the boundaries of what is allowed by code. 

 

There is public money in this, but its tied to jobs, not what the HQ looks like.

 

Cities are constantly evolving and reinventing themselves. You don't need to pay homage to the past everytime you do something new.

 

2 hours ago, Mov2Ohio said:

 

I disagree. If I'm spending my money it should be about what I want or need within the boundaries of what is allowed by code. 

 

There is public money in this, but its tied to jobs, not what the HQ looks like.

 

Cities are constantly evolving and reinventing themselves. You don't need to pay homage to the past everytime you do something new.

 

Yeah, why do we need to constantly live in the past? That’s not going to have much appeal to attracting outside talent.  Let’s dream, let’s make a new reality. Let’s focus on what we want to look like going forward. 

Plus that building looks awful.

2 hours ago, JB said:

Plus that building looks awful.

 

I believe that's a Las Vegas hotel. Yeah, I'm fine without having one of those in Cleveland. 

 

I'm looking forward to whatever SW proposes, and the latest article by KJP gives me hope that it will at least be more interesting than a glass box.

^ unfortunately, if pickard can do anything but a glass box i would be shocked. pleased, but surprized. it does appear that that sw has heard public concerns though, so i remain hopeful they come up with a nice tower and campus that is modern, urban and well integrated with the street level. we shall soon see.

👁️ 🔎 --- Still amateur-snooping for clues here in my spare time...

 

The scale of this Pickard+Chilton designed podium described in the link below as four stories; and the elegance of this 33 story (970K sq ft) tower in Abu Dhabi would be on point for Public Square.

 

I'll suggest that this hotel+residence for an unnamed client might pass for a more contemporary iteration of the Atria III Tower discussed above.

I'm less afraid of the four-story Center of Excellence concept if it approaches this type of look.

 

 

https://www.pickardchilton.com/work/abu-dhabi-luxury-hotel

Edited April 25, 20214 yr by ExPatClevGuy
grammar

Driving through downtown last night:

1) as has been mentioned, boy does Superior need a makeover. The road itself is a quilt of construction patchwork - and some decorative landscaping would do wonders

2) the new building up lighting trend is great but the overall vibe is still too dark

3) the vacuum created by the soon to be gone surface lots at the west end of public square are soul sucking 

 

A design like this would be beyond transformative. I think of the impact of the PC-designed Eaton HQ off 271. The glass walls at night with the lights on is striking. Imagine this times 10 in the heart of downtown. 

Is there signage for "future home" on the lots?  I hope that there are signs on all lots that are about to be developed so our city doesn't look like a barren wasteland of parking.  On a side note, does anyone know if they are doing pop up bars/shops for the NFL draft?

Didn’t notice any signage about forthcoming construction. 

21 hours ago, cfdwarrior said:

Is there signage for "future home" on the lots?  I hope that there are signs on all lots that are about to be developed so our city doesn't look like a barren wasteland of parking.  On a side note, does anyone know if they are doing pop up bars/shops for the NFL draft?

I've been thinking about this as the Draft approaches. It would have been nice if SW had announced their HQ design ahead of the draft and put some sort of signage up on the lots to show visitors what's to come for the city.

I know the pandemic hasn't helped, but do downtown development projects move at a snails pace in every city or only in Cleveland?  

20 minutes ago, skiwest said:

I know the pandemic hasn't helped, but do downtown development projects move at a snails pace in every city or only in Cleveland?  

 

Not sure why this post is in this thread, since the SHW HQ project has moved pretty quickly for a major development project. This should be in the nuCLEus thread or some other thread where there is no visible sign of progress.

 

And besides, since this is a question of general interest and should possibly be in the random developments thread, I'll respond to it there and hopefully drag any follow-up discussion there along with it.

Realife affiliate sues Sherwin-Williams Co.

 

"An affiliate of Realife Real Estate Group, which has Cleveland offices in Independence, has sued Sherwin-Williams Co. in the Cuyahoga County Court of Common Pleas in hopes of continuing to be allowed to park on property the paintmaker bought for its planned new headquarters and associated structures downtown."

 

"The 0.1-acre parcel at the center of the dispute is part of the massive site on Public Square and the Superblock west of it that Sherwin-Williams bought for its new headquarters and associated structures for $49 million in 2020."

 

https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate/realife-affiliate-sues-sherwin-williams-co

 

The dispute appears to be over a space approximately one car's width by two cars length on the Southeastern side of the 5-story building at 1350 W. Third St.  Realife is claiming that they adversely possessed that parcel, giving them claim over Sherwin Williams, because they continuously used a dumpster there for over 20 years.  It's interesting because adverse possession cases are pretty rare, especially over such a high profile parcel.  

4 minutes ago, smimes said:

Realife affiliate sues Sherwin-Williams Co.

 

"An affiliate of Realife Real Estate Group, which has Cleveland offices in Independence, has sued Sherwin-Williams Co. in the Cuyahoga County Court of Common Pleas in hopes of continuing to be allowed to park on property the paintmaker bought for its planned new headquarters and associated structures downtown."

 

"The 0.1-acre parcel at the center of the dispute is part of the massive site on Public Square and the Superblock west of it that Sherwin-Williams bought for its new headquarters and associated structures for $49 million in 2020."

 

https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate/realife-affiliate-sues-sherwin-williams-co

 

The dispute appears to be over a space approximately one car's width by two cars length on the Southeastern side of the 5-story building at 1350 W. Third St.  Realife is claiming that they adversely possessed that parcel, giving them claim over Sherwin Williams, because they continuously used a dumpster there for over 20 years.  It's interesting because adverse possession cases are pretty rare, especially over such a high profile parcel.  

I would think it would be difficult for Reallife to prove exclusive use on this piece. And, in an adverse possession case, the plaintiff must prove, by clear an convincing evidence, all elements of such a claim.

9 minutes ago, smimes said:

Realife affiliate sues Sherwin-Williams Co.

 

"An affiliate of Realife Real Estate Group, which has Cleveland offices in Independence, has sued Sherwin-Williams Co. in the Cuyahoga County Court of Common Pleas in hopes of continuing to be allowed to park on property the paintmaker bought for its planned new headquarters and associated structures downtown."

 

"The 0.1-acre parcel at the center of the dispute is part of the massive site on Public Square and the Superblock west of it that Sherwin-Williams bought for its new headquarters and associated structures for $49 million in 2020."

 

https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate/realife-affiliate-sues-sherwin-williams-co

 

The dispute appears to be over a space approximately one car's width by two cars length on the Southeastern side of the 5-story building at 1350 W. Third St.  Realife is claiming that they adversely possessed that parcel, giving them claim over Sherwin Williams, because they continuously used a dumpster there for over 20 years.  It's interesting because adverse possession cases are pretty rare, especially over such a high profile parcel.  

 

If anyone used or maintained that dumpster other than RealLife, their claim is void. Adverse possession requires the use to be exclusive. This typically only works in situations where someone builds a ranch in Montana, and the parcel owner never comes out to check for two decades. 

I know we laugh at this - but if this makes it past summary judgment there will be an injunction that can delay this process

There’s no chance this stands. They’ve only owned that building, and used that precious dumpster space for less than 2 years. I think anything less than 5 would get thrown out.

1 minute ago, marty15 said:

There’s no chance this stands. They’ve only owned that building, and used that precious dumpster space for less than 2 years. I think anything less than 5 would get thrown out.

 

There's nuance to it - and in 99.99% of AP cases, you're right, the transfer of the property precludes a claim - but I'm just saying, this could force SW to delay

The HQ project is $600 million. How much can the dumpster easement possibly be worth? Unless the powers that be at SHW are totally irrational or this case goes awry in some way I can’t imagine, I think the worst case scenario for SHW is a nuisance settlement. From skimming the complaint it looks like Reallife didn’t even ask for an injunction, which to me suggests they care more about making a couple bucks than about actually protecting their “easement.”

3 minutes ago, LlamaLawyer said:

The HQ project is $600 million. How much can the dumpster easement possibly be worth? Unless the powers that be at SHW are totally irrational or this case goes awry in some way I can’t imagine, I think the worst case scenario for SHW is a nuisance settlement. From skimming the complaint it looks like Reallife didn’t even ask for an injunction, which to me suggests they care more about making a couple bucks than about actually protecting their “easement.”

I am curious.  Who is Realife's counsel?

2 minutes ago, Htsguy said:

I am curious.  Who is Realife's counsel?

Ken Fischer, who I don’t know at all.

1 minute ago, LlamaLawyer said:

Ken Fischer, who I don’t know at all.

 

He's a nice guy, and this is his niche. 

 

I assume if he's putting his name on the complaint he either 1) thinks there may be merit, or 2) wants to get a ruling on record based on a nuanced argument for further usage.

 

I don't know him well - but well enough to know he wouldn't file a frivolous claim for the fee

3 hours ago, YABO713 said:

 

He's a nice guy, and this is his niche. 

 

I assume if he's putting his name on the complaint he either 1) thinks there may be merit, or 2) wants to get a ruling on record based on a nuanced argument for further usage.

 

I don't know him well - but well enough to know he wouldn't file a frivolous claim for the fee

Not frivolous is a pretty low bar.

 

EDIT: To avoid this coming across the wrong way, what I mean is that attorneys can be upstanding and ethical while still participating in cases with bad odds of success. 

Edited April 27, 20214 yr by LlamaLawyer

SW granting the easement gives additional value to the existing building, which will make it harder to buy at a later date. I don't see them giving up space to make this go away.

3 hours ago, YABO713 said:

 

There's nuance to it - and in 99.99% of AP cases, you're right, the transfer of the property precludes a claim - but I'm just saying, this could force SW to delay

 

According to this Columbus law firm a claim of adverse possession can use "tacking" wherein successive owners' claims are added together, so I don't think a past transfer would preclude a claim.  Also, the required length of the use is 21 years.  So if successive owners have been using it for 21 years, in a way that is open, continuous, exclusive, adverse, and notorious, then they have a claim.  But they have to prove it.

 

https://josephandjoseph.com/articles/adverse-possession-legally-stealing-real-property/

 

1 hour ago, ryanfrazier said:

 

According to this Columbus law firm a claim of adverse possession can use "tacking" wherein successive owners' claims are added together, so I don't think a past transfer would preclude a claim.  Also, the required length of the use is 21 years.  So if successive owners have been using it for 21 years, in a way that is open, continuous, exclusive, adverse, and notorious, then they have a claim.  But they have to prove it.

 

https://josephandjoseph.com/articles/adverse-possession-legally-stealing-real-property/

 

Yes, that is correct. Tacking would require that Realife would also have to prove  that the Starks used this parcel adversely.

On 4/26/2021 at 1:22 PM, skiwest said:

I know the pandemic hasn't helped, but do downtown development projects move at a snails pace in every city or only in Cleveland?  

All they need is some of dem blueprints. Really isn't that hard, right?

Anybody else lay there at night wondering when official renderings will drop? Don’t let me be alone on this


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I thought a City Planning and Landmarks meeting was being scheduled.  Anyone know when this is?

11 hours ago, GREGinPARMA said:

Anybody else lay there at night wondering when official renderings will drop? Don’t let me be alone on this


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I check here and email every day waiting :D

Edited May 12, 20214 yr by jjames0408

Redirected from the 55 Public Square thread 

1 hour ago, Cleburger said:

 

I was very against the Sherwin Williams low-rise "paint museum", but hearing how the surroundings might interact gives me hope.   

 

Will you be even more upset when you realize that the "paint museum" as you call it won't be a paint museum and, perhaps even worse for you, won't even be open to the public?

Sherwin Williams apparently only wanted the Public Square lot to make sure that nobody can do anything with it.

From what I understand, SHW considered putting the high rise office tower on the Jacobs Lot as one of their many original design options. 

Of all the blocks SHW controls the one on Public Square is the most visible and most important. Why they chose to build their headquarters on a secondary lot and use the primary lot for a second rate/low impact structure is beyond me.   

 

SHW is a well regarded Fortune 500 company. I am sure they made this decision after careful analysis so they must have their reasons. What those are unfortunately we may never know. I just hope the decision wasn't the result of a few people in control who made it based on a whim or a knee jerk response. Any student of history knows that many times very important decisions were made with less than careful thought. We can only hope that is not the case here. What those determinations were l cannot imagine because the end result makes no sense to me.

 

5 minutes ago, cadmen said:

SHW is a well regarded Fortune 500 company. I am sure they made this decision after careful analysis so they must have their reasons.

 

The gossip is that Boeing moved to Chicago because CEO Stonecipher's wife was a Chicago realtor who never felt comfortable in Seattle.  

 

What puzzles me is SHW's reluctance to show off a design while still hoping to breakground late this year.  They must assume the city will approve whatever they eventually choose to do.

I'm hearing from a outside consultant working for SHW that either SHW is doing a bait & switch to throw off reporters like KJP off the real story by saying they are building the main HQ Tower on the Weston lot BUT really building it on the Jacobs Lot.

 

Or they are planning on doing a long term COMCAST type of buildings as Comcast did in Philadelphia.   That SHW are planning to build a series of HQ TOWERS over a number of years to keep up with their substantial growth and both repay their hometown and help move Downtown Cleveland to the next level and there by make it easier to attract the best talent to SHW.

2 hours ago, KJP said:

Redirected from the 55 Public Square thread 

 

Will you be even more upset when you realize that the "paint museum" as you call it won't be a paint museum and, perhaps even worse for you, won't even be open to the public?

Not at all.  In fact I put "paint museum" in quotes as a placeholder for the site.   I also won't be bothered if it's not public.  If they built a 60 story tower on the PS site, I wouldn't be allowed to run freely through the building.  I would expect no different from a lowrise.  

7 minutes ago, Larry1962 said:

I'm hearing from a outside consultant working for SHW that either SHW is doing a bait & switch to throw off reporters like KJP off the real story by saying they are building the main HQ Tower on the Weston lot BUT really building it on the Jacobs Lot.

 

Or they are planning on doing a long term COMCAST type of buildings as Comcast did in Philadelphia.   That SHW are planning to build a series of HQ TOWERS over a number of years to keep up with their substantial growth and both repay their hometown and help move Downtown Cleveland to the next level and there by make it easier to attract the best talent to SHW.

Well that 2nd rumor would be the story of the decade if true. 

Edited May 23, 20214 yr by CleveFan

My guess as to why to tower is not on Jacobs lot is because they wanted a connected parking structure.  Obviously that can't be done on Jacobs lot.  And going below grade for the depth they need is not possible due to a water table at approximately -17' depending on the time of year.  Lastly, 10 levels of parking beneath the tower, from street level up, isn't conducive to what they were looking for.

9 minutes ago, Larry1962 said:

I'm hearing from a outside consultant working for SHW that either SHW is doing a bait & switch to throw off reporters like KJP off the real story by saying they are building the main HQ Tower on the Weston lot BUT really building it on the Jacobs Lot.

 

Or they are planning on doing a long term COMCAST type of buildings as Comcast did in Philadelphia.   That SHW are planning to build a series of HQ TOWERS over a number of years to keep up with their substantial growth and both repay their hometown and help move Downtown Cleveland to the next level and there by make it easier to attract the best talent to SHW.

To be clear, this would mean not just that they tried to drop false hints to mislead reporters, but that they released a false site plan to the public.

33 minutes ago, LlamaLawyer said:

To be clear, this would mean not just that they tried to drop false hints to mislead reporters, but that they released a false site plan to the public.

OR it could be the legitimate plans today but being built in a way to be able to go vertical on the other lots later

It makes zero, none, nada sense to think that they're saving the Public Square lot for some later, even larger HQ building.  This main HQ building that they are building now will be the biggest investment they make for generations to come.

First they cover the planet in lead paint and then they ruin public square for all us nerds... these guys are stone-cold killers. 

 

In seriousness, I hope public opinion and the building review thing give enough pushback to make them do something less ridiculous. I’m all in favor of being pro-business but I’m also in favor of business be pro-public. 

2 hours ago, X said:

It makes zero, none, nada sense to think that they're saving the Public Square lot for some later, even larger HQ building.  This main HQ building that they are building now will be the biggest investment they make for generations to come.

Right.  While Sherwin's a big company, between what they're building now, and their Brecksville campus, they'll have more than enough space.  

I still think it’s possible they put a 5-star hotel ontop of the center on PS. Everyone from out of town on business to new hires for training can stay there. 

1 hour ago, GREGinPARMA said:

I still think it’s possible they put a 5-star hotel ontop of the center on PS. Everyone from out of town on business to new hires for training can stay there. 

 

We haven't heard anything like that even in rumors, but it would make a lot of sense.  A high end hotel overlooking Public Square with balconies and outdoor terrace areas would be super schweet!! But so far, no indication that S-W cares about what I think would be schweet.  How dare they!

SHW owns plenty of land on which they hope others will build stuff, including possibly a new hotel. And other developers are looking at adding some significant projects very close by -- Magellan (with a possible hotel) being only one of them.

 

We're getting close to crunch time with a public release of images. It's going to be very difficult to get an early copy of renders, but I hope to get at least a word description with an existing comp.