December 15, 20213 yr 44 minutes ago, OH_Really said: Good news doesn't sell papers or generate clicks. I know and it’s so sad
December 15, 20213 yr A view that’s going to change. clevelandskyscrapers.com Cleveland Skyscrapers on Instagram
December 15, 20213 yr 17 minutes ago, MayDay said: A view that’s going to change. Did they break ground today??? I drove by Taza and it looked empty, so I assumed that nothing had happened.
December 16, 20213 yr 1 hour ago, gruver said: Did they break ground today??? I drove by Taza and it looked empty, so I assumed that nothing had happened. We were there. Just leaving now.
December 16, 20213 yr 4 minutes ago, Growth Mindset said: We were there. Just leaving now. Surprise there was no news coverage like they did in Brecksville
December 16, 20213 yr Just got back - nice turnout at Taza (the kibbie is to. die. for.) 👍 clevelandskyscrapers.com Cleveland Skyscrapers on Instagram
December 16, 20213 yr Author NEOtrans’ 56 stories about Sherwin-Williams’ 36 stories By Ken Prendergast / December 15, 2021 On this date of the groundbreaking ceremony for Sherwin-Williams’ (SHW) new global headquarters, it’s not just a time to look ahead but to look back to see how we got here. It was three years and two months ago that NEOtrans wrote the first of 56 articles about the SHW HQ project by breaking the news that SHW had started planning work for a new HQ. Or, more accurately, SHW “re-started” planning work that began several years earlier but was put on hold. Of more pressing concern from 2016-18 was SHW acquiring its rival Valspar and paying down its debt from that acquisition. MORE: https://neo-trans.blog/2021/12/15/neotrans-56-stories-about-sherwin-williams-36-stories/ "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
December 16, 20213 yr NEOTRans has become must reading for me - not to mention most @KJP posts in UO. I really appreciate the substantive reporting that we’ve been fortunate to have in the last few years. I think there was so much desire for a new downtown skyscraper that the story has really captured those of us who read the forum. And it’s all because we’re huge fans of this city. Si great to see the hometown score such a great victory - I think we’re all feeling like kids at Christmas as we begin observing this new tower rise up. It should create a much more impressive skyline and hopefully, activate down at street level. Thanks @KJPfor all the hustle and keeping all of us as close to the action as is possible. Now, looking forward to the ride up and the next 56 articles and 128 pages of this thread!
December 16, 20213 yr Author 11 minutes ago, mrnyc said: did this groundbreaking happen? weird there is no news or pics this morning?? I don't think any media was invited. I saw no news trucks parked outside or any cameras set up inside. It was weird. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
December 16, 20213 yr While biking down Euclid I could see the red crawler crane from at least East 36th. A large stretch of Euclid should have a good view of the construction as it fills the gap. (12-14-21)
December 16, 20213 yr 2 minutes ago, NorthShore647 said: While biking down Euclid I could see the red crawler crane from at least East 36th. A large stretch of Euclid should have a good view of the construction as it fills the gap. (12-14-21) Thanks for sharing
December 16, 20213 yr Author "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
December 16, 20213 yr 17 minutes ago, osu4brutus03 said: Thanks for sharing Cool. So about where the red crane is currently located would be the center of the building?
December 16, 20213 yr 21 hours ago, MayDay said: A view that’s going to change. Thought you did some photoshopping on this with the corners trying to make it look like a ripped photo for some weird reason, looked again, no, just a tree....
December 17, 20213 yr 17 hours ago, willyboy said: Cool. So about where the red crane is currently located would be the center of the building? Has anyone done a rendering of what this will look like from, say, e9 and euclid?
December 17, 20213 yr Author I love those huge sandstone blocks which appear to be foundation stones for old buildings. Perhaps they will find more? I wonder what they plan to do with them? It would be interesting to see them used somehow in the HQ site. They are going to find parts of old buildings that date back probably 200 years or more. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
December 17, 20213 yr Is that confirmed? If so, I would be really curious to know what else they might find as they continue to excavate. This location obviously represents the epicenter of Cleveland history.
December 17, 20213 yr Author Yes, they're pulling up all kinds of stuff from below those parking lots. I posted a picture one of from their exploratory excavations in an article. I can't find it right now though. Here it is... https://neo-trans.blog/2021/10/27/sherwin-williams-hq-construction-materials-start-to-arrive/ Most of the photos of test pits in the geotechnical reports didn't reveal much. But this one showed a definable structure.... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
December 17, 20213 yr 1 hour ago, West153 said: Has anyone done a rendering of what this will look like from, say, e9 and euclid? They can maybe use this pic:
December 17, 20213 yr 4 hours ago, KJP said: I love those huge sandstone blocks which appear to be foundation stones for old buildings. Perhaps they will find more? I wonder what they plan to do with them? It would be interesting to see them used somehow in the HQ site. They are going to find parts of old buildings that date back probably 200 years or more. Maybe they could join the old Municipal Stadium reef in Lake Erie? It could certainly benefit the aquatic life 🐟
December 21, 20213 yr Walking by today I was pleasantly surprised to see them starting to pile drive the foundation retaining plates into the site along West 6th. I would think that could easily have been left out of the project scope at this stage as it’s only slated to be surface parking. Maybe it bodes well for a rapid follow-on project?? My hovercraft is full of eels
December 21, 20213 yr 9 minutes ago, roman totale XVII said: Walking by today I was pleasantly surprised to see them starting to pile drive the foundation retaining plates into the site along West 6th. I would think that could easily have been left out of the project scope at this stage as it’s only slated to be surface parking. Maybe it bodes well for a rapid follow-on project?? I was wondering the other day if they’d do that. Since they have everything on site now. Would save a huge step for when they’re ready. Maybe we’ll get a 2nd surprise tower soon?? Maybe a smaller version of the main tower. With the building points turned to East-West. Edited December 21, 20213 yr by marty15
December 21, 20213 yr 15 minutes ago, marty15 said: I was wondering the other day if they’d do that. Since they have everything on site now. Would save a huge step for when they’re ready. Maybe we’ll get a 2nd surprise tower soon?? Maybe a smaller version of the main tower. With the building points turned to East-West. Yea, Like Key and its Marriott tower. If they ever plan on building Tower II, doing the shoring now will also save cash.
December 21, 20213 yr Author Here's the view from that side from today... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
December 21, 20213 yr Author 10 hours ago, Mov2Ohio said: Yea, Like Key and its Marriott tower. If they ever plan on building Tower II, doing the shoring now will also save cash. It will be interesting also to see where they put the tower cranes. If they put one on the West side of the new office tower and closer to Superior, then perhaps that would be well-positioned to also build the second tower? https://neo-trans.blog/2021/07/26/sherwin-williams-2nd-hq-tower-may-rise-sooner-not-later/ "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
December 21, 20213 yr If nothing else putting that foundation in place now shows proactive thinking in case the building is a go. Plus it's another indication that it IS a go. I'm curious to know what business issues went into the decision to build a smaller second tower vs. a larger first tower? Ken, did you come across any info along those lines when you were first doing your investigation?
December 21, 20213 yr By the time they get around to starting on it, the smaller second tower will end up costing at least twice as much as the first tower. Edited December 21, 20213 yr by LibertyBlvd
December 21, 20213 yr Author 16 minutes ago, cadmen said: If nothing else putting that foundation in place now shows proactive thinking in case the building is a go. Plus it's another indication that it IS a go. I'm curious to know what business issues went into the decision to build a smaller second tower vs. a larger first tower? Ken, did you come across any info along those lines when you were first doing your investigation? Pretty much every thing I learned about the second tower I put in that article several posts above. I had been hearing from one source very early on that SHW was planning two towers but neither would be much more than 30 stories. That was sort-of close. When SHW did their presentation in which they showed the second tower, I discussed it with another source who had been helping me for more than a year. Yet it was the first time (I think) he told me that SHW had been planning two towers all along. And then, when the geotech work started, a third said they were poking holes all around the site because SHW was planning one big tower along with a second shorter tower that would come later but he didn't know how much later. But the fact that SHW is doing what appears to be foundation work for the second tower is a VERY interesting sign. Someone told me they're even doing caisson work over near West 6th and Superior but I'd like to see photos of that before saying anything more definitive. As noted in the article, the primary reason for the second tower is so that SHW will have the expansion capabilities in the future. But in the short term, the tower can be justified by at least moving the 250 SHW workers from Hinckley Industrial Parkway, possibly some or all of the 400-600 Valspar workers and providing sales/coordination offices for companies that do business with SHW. Those businesses aren't going to commit to the second tower until it's about a year away from completion. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
December 21, 20213 yr 1 hour ago, KJP said: It will be interesting also to see where they put the tower cranes. If they put one on the West side of the new office tower and closer to Superior, then perhaps that would be well-positioned to also build the second tower? https://neo-trans.blog/2021/07/26/sherwin-williams-2nd-hq-tower-may-rise-sooner-not-later/ It's possible.... but a lot of things would have to line up, like the design of the second building, its final location, associated city approvals on that schematic plan and the immediate need for the additional office space and if that was the case why not just build both at the same time like Key Center?
December 21, 20213 yr Author 3 minutes ago, Mov2Ohio said: It's possible.... but a lot of things would have to line up, like the design of the second building, its final location, associated city approvals on that schematic plan and the immediate need for the additional office space and if that was the case why not just build both at the same time like Key Center? One difference was that those were different uses -- an office tower and a hotel tower. Filling up one wouldn't detract from the other. Perhaps SHW wants more commitments from larger suppliers to be anchors before going ahead? Or it's just farther off into the future than many of us want it to be.... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
December 21, 20213 yr Interesting but here is my thinking... if they are indeed going ahead and doing the caisson work on west 6th side now and the second tower is imminent then why didn't they just build the garage here with the needed foundation to start the second tower on top. That said, SWs overall approach to this HQ is often a mystery and leaves me somewhat confused :)
December 21, 20213 yr I am very uneducated about such things but what type of "foundation work" could they possibly be doing for a second tower? Wouldn't anything significant have to be pursuant to detailed design plans (not just preliminary) and wouldn't those plans have to be approved? Can you just install caissons for a skyscraper without having a final product in the can (I mean how do you know how many caissons will be necessary and where they should be placed given the final design of the building including square footage and height is unknown). Again is this some type of minor foundation work that doesn't need approval at this point? I am clueless and curious. Edited December 21, 20213 yr by Htsguy
December 21, 20213 yr Author It may be that SHW is confused as well. They haven't submitted permit applications for interior buildouts and I'm told they won't for a while. So perhaps they don't even know how many employees will be working in the 616-foot tower on any given day and/or how they will be spaced within each department and floor? Think of all the moving parts SHW is working with that are complicated by COVID. If they are digging foundations for a second building, it makes sense to do it now while all the crews are on site -- even if they have no idea when a tower might rise there. And if they never need it, imagine the real estate listing for that property: "1-acre site of prime downtown land with foundations in place for future high-rise building; $15 million or best offer." "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
December 21, 20213 yr I attended a construction law seminar last week. One of the presenters, from Columbus, stated that the overall costs for constructing a new commercial building is 75% higher than just two years ago. Maybe SW is doing the prep work now to save $ in the future?
December 21, 20213 yr I would say the most likely reason this is being installed is to facilitate excavation for the foundation & utilities of the main tower. Edited December 21, 20213 yr by enginerd12
December 21, 20213 yr ^ But that’s in the bag, it’s happening. It’s the thrill of the chase that’s exciting. My hovercraft is full of eels
December 21, 20213 yr 25 minutes ago, osu4brutus03 said: Can we just be excited for the new headquarters tower for now? 🤦🏽♂️🤦🏽♂️🤦🏽♂️ I think we can be both excited for the new headquarters tower and speculate and discussion other aspects of the project or this thread will get dull pretty quickly. There is only so much you can say about a hole in the ground for the next few months.
December 21, 20213 yr Author 1 hour ago, enginerd12 said: I would say the most likely reason this is being installed is to facilitate excavation for the foundation & utilities of the main tower. Unfortunately that's all it is right now. I'm told there are 28 caissons being dug for the main tower and only the main tower. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
December 22, 20213 yr I was just thinking it would be great if the parking garage was built in a way that would support future development like 515 Euclid Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk
December 22, 20213 yr On 12/21/2021 at 8:31 PM, MyPhoneDead said: I was just thinking it would be great if the parking garage was built in a way that would support future development like 515 Euclid Agreed. Parking garages need to be more than just parking garages. Unfortunately, SHW rejected that idea. They could have put the training and conference facilities on top of the garage and used the Jacobs lot for something else, maybe a nice hotel. Edited December 23, 20213 yr by LibertyBlvd
December 23, 20213 yr On 12/3/2021 at 1:57 PM, KJP said: We're working on one for the NEOtrans site. Any update on a possible webcam?
December 23, 20213 yr Author Probably in January. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
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