Ubering across the mighty Cuyahoga yesterday evening

Edited November 13, 20231 yr by Blimp City
Typo

From that angle, a 300-foot HQ2 just west of HQ1 wouldn't be tall enough to offer symmetry with the Stokes Tower, although it would for the Rockefeller. Given SHW's rapid job growth, perhaps they might consider a 350-footer?

They went bulky and intentionally  not to be “too tall” with HQ1 - yeah hopefully they design HQ2 to be a bit taller than originally planned (or that we think it will be currently)  

There’s no reason not to get at least a 350 footer (think Beacon) - and I’d LOVE if it pushed towards 400 or a bit higher .  That would be a nice step-down from the main tower to the Rockefeller and a nice presence overall from most any angle. 

Edited November 12, 20231 yr by CleveFan

1 hour ago, KJP said:

From that angle, a 300-foot HQ2 just west of HQ1 wouldn't be tall enough to offer symmetry with the Stokes Tower, although it would for the Rockefeller. Given SHW's rapid job growth, perhaps they might consider a 350-footer?

Why didn’t they just build a taller tower? Did they not expect this much growth?

A few west shoreway and edgewater progress pics.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 13, 20231 yr by Mov2Ohio

3 hours ago, KJP said:

From that angle, a 300-foot HQ2 just west of HQ1 wouldn't be tall enough to offer symmetry with the Stokes Tower, although it would for the Rockefeller. Given SHW's rapid job growth, perhaps they might consider a 350-footer?

 

How tall can they go before drilling to bedrock is necessary? 400ft or so? Would be nice to see them push it as tall as they can without drilling (unless they want to drill heh).

56 minutes ago, Mov2Ohio said:

A few west shoreway and edgewater progress pics.

 

 

 

From that side of town, you can really appreciate the size and impact on the skyline most fully…

Pic from yesterday. You really get to appreciate the height of this thing when you're right below it!

 

From the welleon yesterday 

Great shot. Perfect placement from there as SHW fills in the skyline rather than lining up with 200 PS.

On 11/11/2023 at 5:33 PM, Florida Guy said:

I think all of us “legacy” urban Ohioans, think alike. Exactly what I thought when I saw the picture before reading this post. 

 

LOL that's nowhere close to true most of the time, but even I noticed it.

I think we should start a Sherwin Williams2 thread. Hopefully someone else agrees with me. 

This thread is 185 pages. This is huge to begin with. 

6 hours ago, gpodawund said:

 

How tall can they go before drilling to bedrock is necessary? 400ft or so? Would be nice to see them push it as tall as they can without drilling (unless they want to drill heh).

Generally speaking, around 350-400 feet if they go with the floating concrete pad approach. Apologies for the reflections, just a phone pic from a Lyft ride. 

13 hours ago, JB said:

Why didn’t they just build a taller tower? Did they not expect this much growth?

 

I intend to write a follow-up article and will get into this stuff.

 

11 hours ago, gpodawund said:

 

How tall can they go before drilling to bedrock is necessary? 400ft or so? Would be nice to see them push it as tall as they can without drilling (unless they want to drill heh).

 

It's a function of weight and the subsurface conditions. A 12-story parking deck might need caissons whereas a skinny, 25-story building might not. But the typical weight of a 25- to 30-story building or taller probably would require caissons. 

Goddamn, we could’ve had a 1000 footer! 😫 - Oh well, I’ll take a second 400 footer. In the renderings and blueprints the second tower is exact thickness of HQ1 so HQ2 could be pretty heavy.
Drill, baby, drill!(Them caissons)

Edited November 13, 20231 yr by Silent Matt

Here's a massing I did if HQ2 was roughly half the height of HQ1

Didn’t they already do all the underground prep work for a second tower when they did the foundation work for the first tower?

@dave2017what program did you use for this?  Looks great!

57 minutes ago, BuckeyePlanner said:

@dave2017what program did you use for this?  Looks great!

I use Photoshop

Photos and discussion of the foundation and caisson work started on this page (December 2021) and continues for several pages into April 2022. In addition to a 6-inch thick concrete mat foundation, 26 caissons were dug to bedrock. It appears that one or more caissons were dug in the vicinity of the site of a future HQ2 but it appears to be only several at most. @NorthShore647got photos of one of the caissons being dug in the area for HQ2. But there wasn't much photographic evidence of any other caissons that I could find. This one caisson may have been done for site stabilization.

 

There was some bulkhead work done on the worksite side of the sidewalks along Superior and West 6th with significant amounts of soil and possibly some historical foundations removed. They apparently were replaced with crushed stone to provide a stable setting for a construction staging area. I see no evidence of a mat foundation or other caissons here, nor any construction permit information available online to suggest that caissons were dug here for a future HQ2.

 

Here are two of NorthShore's photos of the only caisson I could find being dug/filled in the area of HQ2...

 

You can start to see the angle forming on the crown.

 

 

That's MUCH better, @MayDay 😎

Here's a massing I did if HQ2 was roughly half the height of HQ1

I would say a 400 footer (I believe a little taller than this) that roughly matches the height of the courthouse, would be PERFECT to balance the skyline from that angle.

Edit: Where would a building would have to be built to fill the gap next to BP Tower?

Sent from my Pixel 8 Pro using Tapatalk

2 hours ago, MayDay said:

You can start to see the angle forming on the crown.

 

 

 

 

Looks to be the start of the 36th floor mezzanine.

 

Edited November 14, 20231 yr by Mendo

From JonesDronesCle

Has SW surpassed Erieview Tower yet? 

Sherwin Williams poking in the background as “Bedrock” demolishes the garage on the Old Nucleus site. 

Edited November 14, 20231 yr by Ray45a

I’m in Cleveland for a couple days on business and I’m staying downtown, so I took a long walk yesterday and checked out SW construction. 

18 hours ago, MyPhoneDead said:

Edit: Where would a building would have to be built to fill the gap next to BP Tower?

The gap to the left of BP is from all the Group Plan Buildings.  Former BoE, Public Auditorium, and City Hall, so not very likely.  The gap to the right, between BP and Beacon is where the Library and Federal Reserve are, so again unlikely.  However, the best chance is either the Westin site, or the 6 story garage south of the Westin at 6th and St. Clair.  The eastern most part of the Riverfront might do it too if it's tall enough.

16 hours ago, CleveFan said:

Has SW surpassed Erieview Tower yet? 

I'll ask again.  Just curious

21 minutes ago, CleveFan said:

I'll ask again.  Just curious

The core certainly has. 

@jeremyck01 Since you haven't seen the site in a while, any thoughts, comments, analysis?

Not to braaaaaag but I believe I have the furthest shot Sherwin-Williams construction photo ever taken (not from a plane). This is from Point Pelee in the southernmost point in Canada in Leamington, Ontario. Click on the photo to zoom in and see it pretty clearly to the right of Terminal Tower. 

 

 

 

More photos of this below:

7 hours ago, KJP said:

@jeremyck01 Since you haven't seen the site in a while, any thoughts, comments, analysis?

The HQ has certainly come a long way since the last time I saw it in April. My thought, looking at it when I was walking around, was that it’s a bit stubby, but I’m withholding judgment, because I’m trying to picture where the top of the angled roof will be. It was difficult for me to pinpoint that spot in space. I have no doubt that once the roof is built out, it will completely balance out the rest of the building.

 

I’m one of the few people on the forum who doesn’t have an issue with the pavilion (I refuse to call it a shack, lol.) I like the fact that the pavilion is closer to Public Square, and the main tower is pushed back. As others have noted on UO, it really does provide more breathing room for the SW building, making it more noticeable.

 

Per your reporting, it’s my hope SW moves forward quickly with the second tower and then builds out the rest of the property along W 6th and along W St. Clair. It will go such a long way to making the Warehouse District feel whole again. It will also emphasize the parking craters on West 9th as the last giant open space, and I’m hopeful that when interest rates cool down, perhaps SW being so close will make the W 9th land valuable to other developers. 
 

I’m also looking forward to the renovation of the Rockefeller building because, in combination with SW, it will really help to activate that area.

 

Overall, I am pleased with the siting of the tower, as well as the materials that are being used and the design.  It’s not edgy or mind blowing, but I think it suits the needs of Sherman Williams while being a very nice addition to the skyline.

1 hour ago, ColDayMan said:

 

This is now one of my favorite photos of all time. 

Yes, an amazing shot, @ColDayMan  The city somehow actually looks bigger from that distance and fares very well in comparison to Detroit.   

Edited November 15, 20231 yr by CleveFan

Speculative, just for fun - thinking about SW HQ2 and admittedly, a little fantasizing - I wonder if SW would ever consider building their 2nd tower just a little thinner, and  just a little higher than the 300 foot level we've seen in the massing.  A thinner profile might allow more of their workers on the west side of HQ 1 to be able to something of the view beyond it - as opposed to a very bulky, large floorplate building.  And even a building of 367 feet, like the Bklyn Air building in Brooklyn, would appear quite imposing vertically and,  be a very stylish addition to the downtown skyline.   

12 hours ago, ColDayMan said:

Not to braaaaaag but I believe I have the furthest shot Sherwin-Williams construction photo ever taken (not from a plane). This is from Point Pelee in the southernmost point in Canada in Leamington, Ontario. Click on the photo to zoom in and see it pretty clearly to the right of Terminal Tower. 

 

 

 

More photos of this below:

Wow! This reminds of what Toronto looks like from Niagara-on-the-Lake. This is super cool!

@CleveFan  I've been wondering about this, too.  It sure seems almost criminal to build your showcase HQ, then immediately block up to 1/4 of the views.  Even a triangular footprint could greatly 'air-out' that grouping.

 

Edited November 16, 20231 yr by chrino21

^This rendering is cool.  And I like how the design feels like part of the first tower.  Whatever they do I hope the 2nd building doesn't end up like most sequels- an unimaginative after thought.  I hope it's more than a glass box.

@ColDayMan, this such an awesome, and surprising photo that I would like to post it on Facebook. I hope you don’t mind .

 

Don't mind at all.  Just give credit to Aaron Davidson aka @Paradox24.  Thanks!

Unfortunately, I’ve already posted, giving credit to you. I’m not proficient enough with FB to edit a post. Sorry @Paradox24. Great photo Aaron!

 

Correction- credit given to Aaron.

Edited November 15, 20231 yr by ArtMasterCLE

2 hours ago, chrino21 said:

 It sure seems almost criminal to build your showcase HQ, then immediately block up to 1/4 of the views.  Even a triangular footprint could greatly 'air-out' that grouping.

Which is why they should have gone taller with the main HQ.

1 hour ago, Dino said:

^This rendering is cool.  And I like how the design feels like part of the first tower.  Whatever they do I hope the 2nd building doesn't end up like most sequels- an unimaginative after thought.  I hope it's more than a glass box.

 

I'd like to see architecture that greets the warehouse district with more traditional materials and form, at least at the street level. If they want to match the HQ design at higher floors have at it. 

 

 

 

It really does complete the square nicely

37 minutes ago, MayDay said:

 

 

 

 

That second pic is just gorgeous! 

A silhouette of the Key Tower as the Sherwin Williams era rises in the background.

 

5 hours ago, chrino21 said:

@CleveFan  I've been wondering about this, too.  It sure seems almost criminal to build your showcase HQ, then immediately block up to 1/4 of the views.  Even a triangular footprint could greatly 'air-out' that grouping.

Funny, I was actually wondering about a triangular shape myself - but you made it happen @chrino21- if SW is lurking in this forum they may be very interested in your suggestion (at least I’d like to believe that)  It would open up views towards the west. 

 

For me, really no need to play to the warehouse district - let the glass rise boldly - although some  variation/accents  in materials or color might be very effective - Cleveland 2025 and beyond! 

Edited November 15, 20231 yr by CleveFan