that would be legitimately awesome

 

Sherwin-Williams’ HQ2: how big?
By Ken Prendergast / November 22, 2023

 

Just as NEOtrans was publishing breaking news Nov. 10 that Sherwin-Williams in 2024 would advance planning for the second phase of its headquarters, a trusted source responded with some remarkable data. That source provided employment data for Sherwin-Williams’ various office locations in Greater Cleveland and in Minneapolis which shows the company is dramatically expanding with new jobs that, if continued, shows the urgency in the company’s consideration of a second headquarters structure in downtown Cleveland, hereinafter referred to as HQ2. And based on that employment information and other insights, it is likely to be a significant structure or structures.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blog/2023/11/22/sherwin-williams-hq2-how-big/

This is great news. So could this could approach 30 stories?

2 minutes ago, simplythis said:

This is great news. So could this could approach 30 stories?

 

It could. It could even exceed it. Lots of variables at play. 

“while being built to code, the structure was not designed so it could be expanded vertically. “

lol this takes me back to the moment in the design review meeting where someone on the committee kept suggesting they dig deeper to allow the garage to be built upon and that development guy from sherwin laughed it off and was certain that would never be needed. 

They laughed off a lot of stuff in planning commission. Sherwin-Williams knew that they were in charge and not the planning commission.

In town at Fat Cats in Tremont tonight - took in the nighttime view of SW and the new skyline from there- yes-  thankful for SW in our city! 

On 11/22/2023 at 7:03 PM, Htsguy said:

They laughed off a lot of stuff in planning commission. Sherwin-Williams knew that they were in charge and not the planning commission.

What a bunch of @sshats. Hubris is so toxic and destructive. And we’ve still got that thing they’re building in the middle of nowhere Brecksville that no one wants to work at. 

Thanks again @Geowizicalfor the great massings. They really make the article.

 

BTW, here's a crazy idea -- a pedestrian walkway between the two buildings, extending from the top of the parking levels in HQ2.

From Kevin defranco in twitter……two towers from sherwin and then a tower on nucleus site would really look good guys

Wow, that parking crater is really huge now. Let's hope something gets built there soon.

I got a bad feeling that lot will be empty for at least 10 years.

1 hour ago, cadmen said:

I got a bad feeling that lot will be empty for at least 10 years.

That's old Cleveland.  There are so many long-term trends that favor the city.

I may not be today, it may not be tomorrow but the city's prospects favor that this should not remain empty for long.

Hey l like your optimism.

45 minutes ago, cadmen said:

Hey l like your optimism.

Truly feel like it's not unfounded optimism.  

Happy Thanksgiving all

The only time optimism or pessimism is justified is after the fact when neither is no longer needed.

16 hours ago, KJP said:

Thanks again @Geowizicalfor the great massings. They really make the article.

 

BTW, here's a crazy idea -- a pedestrian walkway between the two buildings, extending from the top of the parking levels in HQ2.

My pleasure. My hope is to go back by the end of the year and refine the renderings a bit, maybe create a fictitious proposal like I recently posted for the soccer stadium in Rando Vis.

I feel like this site would look better with HQ2 where the parking garage is rather than stuffed behind HQ1. Either way, I am thankful.

HQ2 is proposed to front Superior, one of downtown's principal thoroughfares. I don't see how that is behind anything. 

I know SW is a conservative company, but I don’t know how they messed up their estimates that badly in regards to their growth.

Was speaking with someone I trust on the topic... and SW is looking to reduce and thereafter eliminate its Minneapolis employment footprint by 2035, with those empty jobs being either absorbed or moved to positions in Cleveland. 

On 11/22/2023 at 9:30 PM, marty15 said:

What a bunch of @ss hats. Hubris is so toxic and destructive. And we’ve still got that thing they’re building in the middle of nowhere Brecksville that no one wants to work at. 

 

Your source on the latter?   I hear differently.

3 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

Was speaking with someone I trust on the topic... and SW is looking to reduce and thereafter eliminate its Minneapolis employment footprint by 2035, with those empty jobs being either absorbed or moved to positions in Cleveland. 

 

This would answer the previous post, how they underestimated their local growth.   At some point they changed their mind about maintaining the Minneapolis presence.

Just now, E Rocc said:

 

Your source on the latter?   I hear differently.

Nope, Marty heard right. There’s A LOT of folks at BTC upset about the impending move to Brecksville. 
 

In the end, SHW will have 30% more ee’s working downtown than they had prior to any HQ announcement. 

3 hours ago, JB said:

I know SW is a conservative company, but I don’t know how they messed up their estimates that badly in regards to their growth.

 

I think there’s a misconception going around that SHW haphazardly under-built HQ1, however this isn’t the case.
 

I can assure you they’ve always known how much current and future space will be needed. The plan from the beginning was to have two significant towers as opposed to one supertall. They’re looking to create more of a “campus-feel” which is achieved by spreading their staff amongst numerous buildings. 
 

Cleveland has plenty of skyline height, but we lack the density seen in Pittsburgh and Cincinnati. Sherwin opting to build two towers will be much more impactful, both on the ground and from afar. 

Edited November 24, 20231 yr by Clefan98

That Brecksville site is 100+ acres? I wonder if they would have preferred being closer to their HQ downtown too but trying to get a site that big in a location they liked was probably difficult. 

 

Drove down Euclid Avenue from E. 55 today. I have to say, as someone who moved away in 2009 and came back in 2020, the changes here are honestly shocking. The SW building has amazing presence. Most of the buildings along Euclid look way better than they did in the early 2000s, too. Just need more housing in the vicinity to get the foot traffic up but wow what an amazing difference. It’s beautiful!

Yeah @coneflowerbeing away that decade and coming back gives you a perspective that those of us who were here the whole time sometimes forget. There HAS been a lot of development in the city. People like me who are never satisfied need to remember we have come along way.from the decades of disinvestment.

FYI there is a separate thread for SHW research center.

 

As for the HQ tower, I wonder how much taller it could have been without needing a more costly foundation?

25 minutes ago, LibertyBlvd said:

FYI there is a separate thread for SHW research center.

 

As for the HQ tower, I wonder how much taller it could have been without needing a more costly foundation?

It would depend on where the bedrock is. If this were Chicago, they’d likely have to dig less than 50 feet to hit bedrock in their downtown. 
 

Interestingly enough, I believe the bedrock in University Circle is around that range, which would make the construction of any high rise less costly there. But that’s for another topic. 
 

I’ll be downtown tonite with a cousin of mine who I lived with on E. 185th when I was a kid- she moved to North Carolina for her career and is back for the weekend. She’s excited to see the new look of the square while SHW is under construction. I’m hoping the remaining lots in the Parking Lot District are built on in the near future; I don’t know how much market demand will be brought to the area from SHW’s move but I hope it’s enough for some new low to mid-rise new construction before 2030.

Yesterday from the Winterland Event

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Is the north end of the 36th floor some sort of open porch usable for employees?

On 11/22/2023 at 9:14 PM, CleveFan said:

In town at Fat Cats in Tremont tonight - took in the nighttime view of SW and the new skyline from there- yes-  thankful for SW in our city! 

Beautiful! It is all about the lighting and Cleveland does it very well.

On 11/22/2023 at 9:14 PM, CleveFan said:

In town at Fat Cats in Tremont tonight - took in the nighttime view of SW and the new skyline from there- yes-  thankful for SW in our city! 

The HQ 2 tower is gonna look so dang good from this angle! Fill those gaps!

Two views from down in The Flats on a rainy Sunday

 

 

Edited November 26, 20231 yr by Blimp City

On 11/24/2023 at 11:20 AM, Clefan98 said:

Cleveland has plenty of skyline height, but we lack the density seen in Pittsburgh and Cincinnati. Sherwin opting to build two towers will be much more impactful, both on the ground and from afar. 

 

It’s always been Cleveland’s way to build tall.  

 

Height on the skyline is what makes a city visually distinctive.   It’s the tallest buildings that are the first things one sees approaching a city.   To the traveler, catching sight of them means catching sight of the city, that the journey is near an end.

 

Height represents growth, ambition, and a desire to stand out.   Architects tend to make the tallest buildings a little more distinctive.  Perhaps that’s because while an average sized building can be appreciated for blocks, the tallest can be for miles.

 

For most cities, the iconic building is either the tallest or a previous tallest.  

20 minutes ago, E Rocc said:

 

It’s always been Cleveland’s way to build tall.  

 

Height on the skyline is what makes a city visually distinctive.   It’s the tallest buildings that are the first things one sees approaching a city.   To the traveler, catching sight of them means catching sight of the city, that the journey is near an end.

 

Height represents growth, ambition, and a desire to stand out.   Architects tend to make the tallest buildings a little more distinctive.  Perhaps that’s because while an average sized building can be appreciated for blocks, the tallest can be for miles.

 

For most cities, the iconic building is either the tallest or a previous tallest.  

Perfectly said.  This is the ambitious vision for Cleveland that the city needs to embrace.  So many macro-trends favor our city.

SHW seemingly recognizes it and they are building symbols that will hopefully help others see it.

 

On 11/22/2023 at 11:59 AM, KJP said:

 

Sherwin-Williams’ HQ2: how big?
By Ken Prendergast / November 22, 2023

 

 

On 11/22/2023 at 1:09 PM, simplythis said:

This is great news. So could this could approach 30 stories?

 

On 11/22/2023 at 1:13 PM, KJP said:

 

It could. It could even exceed it. Lots of variables at play. 

 

Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!

At least 493' (150meters) or higher, let's make it an official skyscraper!!

That would bump us from four to six pretty quickly. Then if we can get a few more from Cliffs; the Justice Center, Cavs training center multiplex, and at least one Bedrock Riverview tower....then we'd be in double digits! That would tie us with Pittsburgh and put us somewhere around the top 15 cities in total skyscraper count.

It can happen! I'm excited about what the future holds.

 

Edited November 27, 20231 yr by NR

15 minutes ago, Clefan98 said:

Eh…Most would agree that skyline density is much more impressive than a couple of tall buildings surrounded by huge gaps and surface lots below. 
 

Your reasoning might sound good to you, but it’s also why Cleveland’s skyline ranking is resoundingly lower than most of our peer cities. 

I hear you, and agree with both of your arguments. To the argument for height, adding Key Tower, 200 Public Square and now the SW HQ complex and the anticipated spinoff additions from SW will add both height and density. All remaining surface lots will be filled with low to medium height housing or offices within the next decade if we are lucky. Then, you will have a dense skyline that gradually rises from the river to the top of Key Tower creating a very impressive sight as you approach the city. Even then, you will still have gaps when viewed from afar because of Public Square and the civic building just beyond it. It will still be a very impressive skyline.

14 minutes ago, BoomerangCleRes said:

We also have more buildings over 200ft than Columbus or Cincinnati so we have great density by other peer city standards

I’m speaking more visually, than technical. The placement of towers and topography matters just as much as building height sometimes. 

SHW, even just the first tower, will do more to balance the skyline view than any project in recent memory.  As for the peer cities, do they have any large open spaces of a scale similar to Public Square or the malls which can never be built on?  Possibly capitol square in Columbus.  Those open spaces, while providing important civic amenities, have such large footprints that they diminish the appearance of density in our skyline at distance.  But the view on approach from I-77 is the most impressive in my opinion.  It’s just a wall of tall buildings from the river to CSU.

Edited November 27, 20231 yr by JohnSummit
Typo

24 minutes ago, JohnSummit said:

SHW, even just the first tower, will do more to balance the skyline view than any project in recent memory.  As for the peer cities, do they have any large open spaces of a scale similar to Public Square or the malls which can never be built on?  Possibly capitol square in Columbus.  Those open spaces, while providing important civic amenities, have such large footprints that they diminish the appearance of density in our skyline at distance.  But the view on approach from I-77 is the most impressive in my opinion.  It’s just a wall of tall buildings from the river to CSU.

Thanks, I thought of the open spaces after I sent that.    I see the 77 approach all of the time and you're right, I like the approach from the west on 90 as well, where Key Tower frames Terminal.   

Starting about 8:10 this vid has some great screenshot opportunities for views in and around PS.

 

I’m speaking more visually, than technical. The placement of towers and topography matters just as much as building height sometimes. 

This. My favorite skyline in Ohio is Cincinnati's. The density of it and placement of its buildings make it a dense and "big city" feeling skyline more than Cleveland. Their downtown looks more "full" from more angles than Cleveland's.

The most popular view is a view that actually shows it's flaws to me. The skyline from this view shows why a balance of skyscrapers and mid-rises/high-rises (The 9, Celebreeze Building etc.) placed in the right locations are important.

Downtown looks better from the Eastern edge of downtown (University Circle) than from the West side because the mid-rises/high-rises are more prominent from this view. Our tallest/trophy buildings are all placed along public Square but they are located next to the low-rise WHD buildings which creates an odd skyline that looks like it has a lot of gaps.

Placement definitely matters over height to me.

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^Density wise I think the skyline looks best form the south west. The tallest buildings take center stage and the shorter buildings along East 9th create good background filler.

 

 

Breadth wise, the I-490/I-77 Approach gives Cleveland's skyline the best view IMO.

 

 

It's not as dense, except along East 9th, but the southern view shows you how the similar sized buildings give you that denser feel along 9th, yet the combination of the tallest and shortest buildings set in this linear fashion makes the skyline look much bigger than if all the buildings crowded around each other like you have in Cincy.

 

Columbus from the east and west is like this too, versus looking on from on High street at OSU campus.

Folks, if you want to discuss other city’s skylines, please create a new thread.

^ There is an old thread on city skylines in City Photos - Ohio.

 

Getting back on topic,  HQ topping out should be happening soon.  Has a date been announced?

Great time for one of the last progress pics from @ASPhotoman

1 hour ago, LibertyBlvd said:

^ There is an old thread on city skylines in City Photos - Ohio.

 

Getting back on topic,  HQ topping out should be happening soon.  Has a date been announced?

 

The orginal timeline showed the structural steel would be topped out by the end of the year, not sure if there has been any delays but looks to be pretty close to hitting that mark.

2 hours ago, GREGinPARMA said:

Great time for one of the last progress pics from @ASPhotoman

Would love to, but I haven't seen any recent progress pics I can really go off of. Was hoping more pics would be posted this week so I can do another by Friday. 

18 minutes ago, ASPhotoman said:

Would love to, but I haven't seen any recent progress pics I can really go off of. Was hoping more pics would be posted this week so I can do another by Friday. 

 

Yes a recent pic would probably help lol anybody downtown today? @MayDay