January 16, 20241 yr 1 hour ago, Ineffable_Matt said: What this video hammers home is that we need a 5-700 footer, just east of Masthead, maybe, to cap that view down Superior. I'd rather see one at 4th & Prospect.
January 16, 20241 yr 27 minutes ago, LibertyBlvd said: I'd rather see one at 4th & Prospect. Well, we need them lots of places, LOL.
January 16, 20241 yr @ArtMasterCLEthat first shot from the RHOF really shows a modern side of the city - with the blue glass of both the Hilton and SW - how different that view is from just a short number of years ago And the JC is much more tolerable when it’s bordered by a couple new skyscrapers.
January 16, 20241 yr @CleveFanthat’s exactly why I love that view. The density, and diversity of architecture is striking. I only wish I had better light.
January 17, 20241 yr The transit-shw mashup we've all been waiting for haha Edited January 17, 20241 yr by GISguy
January 18, 20241 yr Just chatted with a couple workers on their lunch break. Aside from calling the higher-ups “major hard-asses”, they said that drywall is up to the 20th floor. They also mentioned, unprompted, that a second tower is coming and they had just heard it was going to be 28 stories.
January 18, 20241 yr 6 minutes ago, Pleco said: Just chatted with a couple workers on their lunch break. Aside from calling the higher-ups “major hard-asses”, they said that drywall is up to the 20th floor. They also mentioned, unprompted, that a second tower is coming and they had just heard it was going to be 28 stories. Paging @Geowizical lol Awesome scoop!
January 18, 20241 yr 11 minutes ago, Pleco said: Just chatted with a couple workers on their lunch break. Aside from calling the higher-ups “major hard-asses”, they said that drywall is up to the 20th floor. They also mentioned, unprompted, that a second tower is coming and they had just heard it was going to be 28 stories. I heard similar last night. The wheels are starting to turn on it. Heard talk of a lease back arrangement. Stark and Independence were mentioned as possibles. The Beacon being a similar type structure they’re eyeing.
January 18, 20241 yr 24 minutes ago, Pleco said: they had just heard it was going to be 28 stories. Well what do you know... 28*15 = 420 😎 Nice
January 18, 20241 yr 20 hours ago, GISguy said: Paging @Geowizical lol I've been throwing something together recently, all the more reason to post it soon! Edit: I'm trying really hard to get this new rendering program up and running, hopefully it doesn't take too long and is worth it in the end Edited January 19, 20241 yr by Geowizical
January 18, 20241 yr Love it!! Begs the question though: would we all have preferred a 64 story tower or the two shorter ones we are getting? My vote would be for the former. Nonetheless, great news and I'll take it any day!
January 18, 20241 yr 1 hour ago, Pleco said: Just chatted with a couple workers on their lunch break. Aside from calling the higher-ups “major hard-asses”, they said that drywall is up to the 20th floor. They also mentioned, unprompted, that a second tower is coming and they had just heard it was going to be 28 stories. I had heard 21, but the more the merrier! Lol.
January 18, 20241 yr Great scoop @Pleco! I’m sure @KJPis preparing his next NEOtrans as we speak! At 420’ as per @Geowizical’s math , HQ2 would be almost equal in height to the Courthouse Tower. But it could be even a little taller - HQ1 is either 36 or 38 stories, depending on how you count. It’s decorative top gives it at least 60 extra feet. This is exciting news, especially the sense one gets that they’re going to waste no time moving it forward. I’m not sure The Beacon is the most exciting exemplar for the general look of the building - would’ve preferred something less bulky - but I would think it will be very complimentary to the main HQ - and that will be a fantastic addition in western downtown.
January 18, 20241 yr 7 minutes ago, Whipjacka said: maybe 28 with the parking The Beacon is 21 over 8. So that could be it. Though with higher ceiling heights for office use, it would be quite a bit taller than Beacon.
January 18, 20241 yr ^For sure. Also, @KJP's earlier article from a month or two ago suggested nearly 500' including some sort of base/parking levels.
January 18, 20241 yr 420ft without including a lobby or a garage (if part of the project) and a potential crown... it could reach close to 500 feet. It would also likely need footers if going above 400.
January 18, 20241 yr 53 minutes ago, GREGinPARMA said: Love it!! Begs the question though: would we all have preferred a 64 story tower or the two shorter ones we are getting? My vote would be for the former. Nonetheless, great news and I'll take it any day! I'm OK with 2 towers instead of 1 as it will eliminate more surface parking. But I wish HQ1 was a bit taller, maybe around 700'.
January 18, 20241 yr Author With SHW's conservatism, they may build smaller even though the data I'm seeing says it should be taller. I guess we'll find out eventually. And don't forget that SHW still has the perimeter of the parking garage to develop -- whether they do it or someone else does. It's a sizable chuck of land but potentially not much parking to be added unless they put a couple of layers of parking within a 4-8 story wraparound structure. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
January 18, 20241 yr 4 minutes ago, KJP said: With SHW's conservatism, they may build smaller even though the data I'm seeing says it should be taller. I guess we'll find out eventually. And don't forget that SHW still has the perimeter of the parking garage to develop -- whether they do it or someone else does. It's a sizable chuck of land but potentially not much parking to be added unless they put a couple of layers of parking within a 4-8 story wraparound structure. Maybe Stark will get to fulfill his Warehouse District dream after all.
January 18, 20241 yr As far as one taller vs. two shorter towers, how about this? I prefer whichever results in higher total property values and tax assessments. P.S. - And for what it's worth, I've got a feeling that what we end up with will be higher total value than one supertall would have been. Edited January 18, 20241 yr by LlamaLawyer
January 18, 20241 yr Cleveland punches above its weight in height - we need more towers. I’m on Team 2.
January 18, 20241 yr @Paul in Cleveland @MayDay Okay! Might as well, right? With props and all due respect to Paul in Cleveland (whose Shoreway pics I've looked forward to and have been my favorites), I just wanted to see what a second tower at roughly 28-stories would look like, so being 2200 miles away I have to use other folks' photos. I do so hope they make it different but related in some creative ways, as twin buildings seem to make each other look less slim and tall - "squatifying"? each other. See Philadelphia's Liberty Place, San Francisco's Embarcadero Center, etc. Anyway, for what it's worth... **Let me add, I see MayDay and more have contributed Shoreway pics, so I might not be crediting everybody. Edited January 18, 20241 yr by chrino21
January 19, 20241 yr Maybe too much glass @chrino21?! Just maybe this site could be used to recreate our beloved Brutalist JC? Ok, my apologies to the entire board, but now that I see it, it actually looks better than I expected. How about that magic 🤔 !
January 19, 20241 yr 5 hours ago, GREGinPARMA said: Love it!! Begs the question though: would we all have preferred a 64 story tower or the two shorter ones we are getting? My vote would be for the former. Nonetheless, great news and I'll take it any day! I was waiting until tower 1 got closer to completion to ask everyone’s opinion here, but this kind of begs the question: Seeing the (almost) finished product now, would you rather have this, or to go back to 1993 and have the Ameritrust tower completed and standing all these years?
January 19, 20241 yr 1 hour ago, JohnSummit said: I was waiting until tower 1 got closer to completion to ask everyone’s opinion here, but this kind of begs the question: Seeing the (almost) finished product now, would you rather have this, or to go back to 1993 and have the Ameritrust tower completed and standing all these years? I think I'd rather have the Ameritrust Tower all these years, because then SW would have to build these towers on another vacant site.
January 19, 20241 yr 3 hours ago, chrino21 said:. I do so hope they make it different but related in some creative ways, as twin buildings seem to make each other look less slim and tall - "squatifying"? each other. See Philadelphia's Liberty Place, San Francisco's Embarcadero Center, etc. Anyway, for what it's worth... Insightful @chrino21i think you’re really highlighting the most interesting design question - more than the exact height - how to complement Tower 1 without creating a somewhat overly dominating monolithic complex - while still giving it interplay and connection to HQ1 and SW’s brand? Your mock-up immediately made me think more contrast between the two HQs would be beneficial.
January 19, 20241 yr 2 hours ago, CleveFan said: Insightful @chrino21i think you’re really highlighting the most interesting design question - more than the exact height - how to complement Tower 1 without creating a somewhat overly dominating monolithic complex - while still giving it interplay and connection to HQ1 and SW’s brand? Your mock-up immediately made me think more contrast between the two HQs would be beneficial. I think tower 2 should be rotated 90 degrees, perpendicular to tower 1.
January 19, 20241 yr Ok, so if SW fills up building 2 all by themselves, what becomes of the suppliers' offices that SW suggested was the initial purpose of building 2? Is there a need for the suppliers' building 3? Maybe that could go in one of those parking lots north of St. Clair. Remember: It's the Year of the Snake
January 19, 20241 yr 3 minutes ago, Dougal said: Ok, so if SW fills up building 2 all by themselves, what becomes of the suppliers' offices that SW suggested was the initial purpose of building 2? Is there a need for the suppliers' building 3? Maybe that could go in one of those parking lots north of St. Clair. raze down the shack
January 19, 20241 yr 7 hours ago, LlamaLawyer said: I think tower 2 should be rotated 90 degrees, perpendicular to tower 1. A no-brainer and my first thought as well.
January 19, 20241 yr 16 hours ago, LibertyBlvd said: I'm OK with 2 towers instead of 1 as it will eliminate more surface parking. But I wish HQ1 was a bit taller, maybe around 700'. Would the 64 story tower have exceeded 1000 ft. ?
January 19, 20241 yr Due to the lack of progress on the height I haven't been able to contribute much, but here's something interesting I saw on Pickard Chilton's Instagram. They showed behind the scenes of LED glass panels that they're installing on an office building in Belgium. It made me wonder if this is how the center strip will light up on the SHW HQ!
January 19, 20241 yr I’ve got to think the leadership at SHW is regretting not going taller with building 1 or building the garage to support a tower above. The footprint of the site other than the garage is actually pretty tight to accommodate another tower without visually encroaching on tower 1. It does pose an interesting design challenge, and Pickard’s body of work doesn’t instill confidence in a creative solution. I feel like a stark contrast in facade could be good - would love to see a black metal grid a la 55 Hudson Yards.
January 19, 20241 yr Author Wow, that looks like a half-pint SHW HQ1! That might be a good design for HQ2. 7 hours ago, Dougal said: Ok, so if SW fills up building 2 all by themselves, what becomes of the suppliers' offices that SW suggested was the initial purpose of building 2? Is there a need for the suppliers' building 3? Maybe that could go in one of those parking lots north of St. Clair. SHW has a lot they can move on to the west half of the HQ campus site which has basically two fill points -- the Superior West site and the Parking Deck Perimeter. I just hope they don't have dead-at-street-level buildings around the perimeter of the parking deck. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
January 19, 20241 yr Author 3 minutes ago, JohnSummit said: I’ve got to think the leadership at SHW is regretting not going taller with building 1 or building the garage to support a tower above. The footprint of the site other than the garage is actually pretty tight to accommodate another tower without visually encroaching on tower 1. It does pose an interesting design challenge, and Pickard’s body of work doesn’t instill confidence in a creative solution. I feel like a stark contrast in facade could be good - would love to see a black metal grid a la 55 Hudson Yards. They are "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
January 19, 20241 yr 9 minutes ago, JohnSummit said: I’ve got to think the leadership at SHW is regretting not going taller with building 1 or building the garage to support a tower above. The footprint of the site other than the garage is actually pretty tight to accommodate another tower without visually encroaching on tower 1. It does pose an interesting design challenge, and Pickard’s body of work doesn’t instill confidence in a creative solution. I feel like a stark contrast in facade could be good - would love to see a black metal grid a la 55 Hudson Yards. They could do something L-shaped and eat up the rest of the block not occupied by the parking garage I suppose, but IDK how wide that NW portion is.
January 19, 20241 yr Was in Houston last weekend for the Browns game, and saw the Texas Tower, which looked like a larger version of Sherwin Williams HQ
January 19, 20241 yr 21 minutes ago, KJP said: They are Maybe they will learn their lesson and build in some growing room with tower 2. Tower 1 being too short is sort of a less big deal because there's plenty extra room. But if tower 2 is too small, they're reduced to building on the edges, which is probably not going to be a desirable layout for office space.
January 19, 20241 yr 7 hours ago, Dougal said: Ok, so if SW fills up building 2 all by themselves, what becomes of the suppliers' offices that SW suggested was the initial purpose of building 2? Is there a need for the suppliers' building 3? Maybe that could go in one of those parking lots north of St. Clair. How close do the suppliers need to be? Could they be located in a building that is not adjacent to SHW HQ?
January 19, 20241 yr 15 hours ago, OldEnough said: Cleveland punches above its weight in height - we need more towers. I’m on Team 2. Same- though I felt before this tower was built that the original tower pitched for Amazon (which was originally supposed to be for SHW) would have been great. Since then, I’m more for density which we absolutely need more of. Give me density any day over surface parking, which a second tower would take up even more of. There will be times in the city’s future where we could see a 1,000 footer. It just didn’t happen this time. We still have a game changer with SHW which finally evens out the skyline west of E. 9th St, and there’s plenty of surface parking left to put a 1,000 footer on.
January 19, 20241 yr Author 1 hour ago, LibertyBlvd said: How close do the suppliers need to be? Could they be located in a building that is not adjacent to SHW HQ? Apparently they want them close ("Keep your friends close and....") because the tower proposed a couple of years ago across West 6th was described by SHW execs as being for SHW suppliers. Doesn't get much closer than that! "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
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