May 19, 20196 yr Author Yes, I chose my words carefully. While I would prefer to publish the article with a rendering (albeit a rendering from a couple of years ago), I will share the article without it. But that's all I'm waiting on right now. If I don't get the rendering by tomorrow afternoon, I will post the article by then. Damn near everyone in the real estate world knows this project is coming. It's the worst kept secret. So the word is going to get out. I'd prefer to share it with you all first. ? "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 19, 20196 yr All of this fantastical speculation can be mesmerizing for those of us who hunger to see another SUPER TALL skyscraper rise into the heaven's over Cleveland, but isn't that all this amounts to ... Mere speculation? If Sherwin-Williams does plan on erecting a new headquarters in the form of a skyscraper and it is supposedly the worst kept secret, wouldn't the local media have already pounced on this story like a Black panther. The speculation does excite the senses, but that is usually all that most of us are left with here in good ole Cleveland. ????
May 19, 20196 yr 2 hours ago, Terdolph said: Honestly, I wish they would build this on the W. 3rd parking lots. The Jacobs block would be better as a two or three story residential development or a park. Another supper tall on PS will cause the place to look like a canyon. Two story development on the Jacobs lot? Or a park, right next door to Public Square? You do realize you're on UrbanOhio, right? Urban, density, building tall on empty lots, etc. Lol.
May 19, 20196 yr 2 hours ago, Terdolph said: Honestly, I wish they would build this on the W. 3rd parking lots. The Jacobs block would be better as a two or three story residential development or a park. Another supper tall on PS will cause the place to look like a canyon. Not sure how old you are, but I'm going to guess you don't remember what the block looked like when AmeriTrust and other buildings were still standing?
May 20, 20196 yr Author 8 hours ago, John D. Baumgardner said: All of this fantastical speculation can be mesmerizing for those of us who hunger to see another SUPER TALL skyscraper rise into the heaven's over Cleveland, but isn't that all this amounts to ... Mere speculation? If Sherwin-Williams does plan on erecting a new headquarters in the form of a skyscraper and it is supposedly the worst kept secret, wouldn't the local media have already pounced on this story like a Black panther. The speculation does excite the senses, but that is usually all that most of us are left with here in good ole Cleveland. ???? You're asking the wrong person that question. Why don't you ask my colleagues in the Cleveland media why they don't have this story? Do this: Scroll through headlines of my blog. How many of those projects have I covered that have yet to be covered by others? Yeah, I'm probably too early on some stories. But that's ok. I like learning and sharing thoughts and plans from creative minds and how the whole process determines the fate of projects. Don't you? So..... As recently as last winter, I had just one solid source telling me that the Sherwin-Williams HQ project is alive. I sat on the story until I got a confirmation. Now I have six well-placed sources with ever-increasing detail. All are people who are directly touched by or involved with the principal aspects of this project. Edited May 20, 20196 yr by KJP "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 20, 20196 yr 14 hours ago, jeremyck01 said: Two story development on the Jacobs lot? Or a park, right next door to Public Square? You do realize you're on UrbanOhio, right? Urban, density, building tall on empty lots, etc. Lol. A two story development downtown in general is something I would be opposed to lol.
May 20, 20196 yr Author Incoming! There is a lot to chew on here.... MONDAY, MAY 20, 2019 Sherwin-Williams' HQ: will it be Ohio's tallest or suburban-bound? It appears the stakes couldn't be higher for the City of Cleveland as global coatings giant Sherwin-Williams Co. (SHW) prepares to issue a request for proposals from development teams seeking to build a massive new headquarters and research facility. How high are the stakes? Perhaps as high as the 947-foot Key Tower or possibly more. That's how tall the 153-year-old company's new corporate headquarters could be, according to two sources. Or, considering that SHW's executives like being within walking distance of the company's research and development activities, it's possible that the new HQ and R&D facilities could both move to Cleveland's suburbs, taking nearly 4,000 good-paying jobs with them. So the potential outcomes are an iconic new skyscraper for a growing multinational company in downtown Cleveland or the loss of thousands of jobs from a city trying to recover from decades of job losses. Those are pretty monumental stakes. MORE: https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2019/05/sherwin-williams-hq-will-it-be-ohios.html "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 20, 20196 yr I hope it’s a downtown skyscraper and I really hope it is less ugly than that Ameritrust monstrosity. When is the last time I-71 turned a profit?
May 20, 20196 yr Just think about all the spinoff development that a super tall might create in the wharehouse district...... Very exciting!!!!
May 20, 20196 yr I would love to have the opportunity to design Cleveland's tallest skyscraper if I were an architect ? Cleveland has long been overdue for a forward-looking, contemporary supertall to bless its sky.
May 20, 20196 yr 22 minutes ago, dski44 said: Just think about all the spinoff development that a super tall might create in the wharehouse district...... Very exciting!!!! Totally--with a new 25 story Justice Center behind it on Superior, those surface lots would completely fill in within a couple years--plus free up the old Justice Center for repurposing into residential.
May 20, 20196 yr Howabout a super tall with a cylindrical top akin to the US Bank Building in LA. It would make a nice contrast to the other buildings on Public Sqaure. And, If done properly it could have a slight resemblance to a bucket of paint.just a thought.
May 20, 20196 yr Author I've met with the developer of the Valor Acres in Brecksville, and they are going to push hard to get SHW relocated to their project. And I also spoke with the business development managers at a large architectural firm who heard that SHW might even be willing to consider renovating the Justice Center for its new HQ and R&D facilities. Suffice it to say, we're going to hear a lot of rumors in the coming months. All I can say is, I hope SHW takes the same amount of time to consider its RFP responses as Swagelok did -- 4 months. I don't think I could take much more than that in the rumor mill! "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 20, 20196 yr Hard to see why a company would want to move to the suburbs today, if part of the reason for building a new headquarters and R&D center is to attract top talent. As the article mentions, Eaton made a move that was against the trend back into the urban core. SWH would be wise to find a solution in the city, if possible
May 20, 20196 yr I can’t imagine how big the loss of SW to the suburbs would be... Dont f$%* it up Frank!
May 20, 20196 yr Ugh I really hope Sherwin considering a suburban location is just a negotiation ploy. I throw up in my mouth thinking of losing this many jobs to Brecksville. KJP, I know your articels are very well written to not be biased (good reporting), but did you get an impression either way from the tone of your conversations with everyone what direction this really would go? Is the consensus leaning towards somewhere in the city?
May 20, 20196 yr I feel they (Sherwin-Williams) know about Jacob's lot and realize what a great asset it would be for Cleveland to build on that land. It would send a ripple effect throughout the warehouse district, sparking an increased interest in development around the area. This could include added restaurant, apartments, and even condos for many of the workers working at the downtown location. Thunderbird would also be a great option for overflow with a potential to be THE PLACE to live in the coming years. With Great Lakes Brewing already placed stakes there, who could go wrong? Edited May 20, 20196 yr by jbee1982
May 20, 20196 yr Author 14 minutes ago, YO to the CLE said: Ugh I really hope Sherwin considering a suburban location is just a negotiation ploy. I throw up in my mouth thinking of losing this many jobs to Brecksville. KJP, I know your articels are very well written to not be biased (good reporting), but did you get an impression either way from the tone of your conversations with everyone what direction this really would go? Is the consensus leaning towards somewhere in the city? I think there's already a lot smoke and talk. But actions speak louder. And SHW's recent actions were the Jacobs lot. If there was no 2.6 acres of land available next door for R&D and parking, I would be worried that the Jacobs lot might be too constraining. So my only worry now is -- can the Jacobs Group and Weston work together in a team to land this whale? If not, I'm not sure what's Plan B.... On both sides of Frankfort between W6th-W9th? Maybe on Canal Road between Breen and Carter Road? Maybe split the site on both sides of the Cuyahoga River, with the other half of the complex on Scranton Peninsula? BTW, that reminds me, one of the rumors five years ago was that SHW was considering that very idea -- building a new HQ between Canal Road and the river, next to Breen. If that was an actual option, it didn't win. A management committee overseeing this HQ process back then chose the Jacobs lot. Now they're going the RFP route. Edited May 20, 20196 yr by KJP "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 20, 20196 yr 8 minutes ago, KJP said: I think there's already a lot smoke and talk. But actions speak louder. And SHW's recent actions were the Jacobs lot. If there was no 2.6 acres of land available next door for R&D and parking, I would be worried that the Jacobs lot might be too constraining. So my only worry now is -- can the Jacobs Group and Weston work together in a team to land this whale? If not, I'm not sure what's Plan B.... On both sides of Frankfort between W6th-W9th? Maybe on Canal Road between Breen and Carter Road? Maybe split the site on both sides of the Cuyahoga River, with the other half of the complex on Scranton Peninsula? BTW, that reminds me, one of the rumors five years ago was that SHW was considering that very idea -- building a new HQ between Canal Road and the river, next to Breen. If that was an actual option, it didn't win. A management committee overseeing this HQ process back then chose the Jacobs lot. Now they're going the RFP route. Do you think Jacobs and Weston can work together? It’s a lot on the line to make this work. We CANNOT have them going to the suburbs. It’d be bad for the city, bad for SW, bad all around
May 20, 20196 yr So when they say they want the R&D facility located close to the actual HQ, do they literally want it attached to the HQ or simply close by like it is now? Because that opens up even more options. For example, Landmark Office Towers are a fortress. I could see putting an R&D facility in there on the lower floors and putting apartments on the upper floors. And then a new tower on PS is literally a short walk through Tower City
May 20, 20196 yr KJP, Do your sources know if an actual announcement is still in the immediate future? What do they feel will actually happen, especially with regards to building on the woefully empty Jacobs parcels? If real estate professionals are all abuzz concerning this development, I am surprised that not even the intrusive and ever knowing noses over at Scene Magazine haven't spoken on this ... They're famous for such stories. Well, whatever comes out, I just hope that Sherwin-Williams goes ahead with a signature skyscraper near Public Square. We are all waiting and watchful .... ?
May 20, 20196 yr Author 3 minutes ago, YO to the CLE said: So when they say they want the R&D facility located close to the actual HQ, do they literally want it attached to the HQ or simply close by like it is now? Because that opens up even more options. For example, Landmark Office Towers are a fortress. I could see putting an R&D facility in there on the lower floors and putting apartments on the upper floors. And then a new tower on PS is literally a short walk through Tower City Or they expand Breen. Remember the HQ plan five years didn't involve R&D at all. Breen was going to stay put. But now there's a lot more R&D jobs post-Valspar and some consolidations going on. I could confirm the closure of the Chicago lab, but I also heard about a SHW lab in Colorado Springs closing with some of their workers relocated to Cleveland. But I couldn't find any details about that. But I do have details on the space needs now, and that 1.6 million SF includes both an HQ and R&D. And SHW likes to have management and scientists be able to walk back and forth between the two. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 20, 20196 yr 12 minutes ago, KJP said: BTW, that reminds me, one of the rumors five years ago was that SHW was considering that very idea -- building a new HQ between Canal Road and the river, next to Breen. If that was an actual option, it didn't win. A management committee overseeing this HQ process back then chose the Jacobs lot. Now they're going the RFP route. I guess this whole RFP scenario has me a bit confused. Could it possibly be that a decision has pretty much been made and this is a "due diligence" exercise for the board in order to cover their asses?
May 20, 20196 yr Author 2 minutes ago, John D. Baumgardner said: KJP, Do your sources know if an actual announcement is still in the immediate future? What do they feel will actually happen, especially with regards to building on the woefully empty Jacobs parcels? If real estate professionals are all abuzz concerning this development, I am surprised that not even the intrusive and ever knowing noses over at Scene Magazine haven't spoken on this ... They're famous for such stories. Well, whatever comes out, I just hope that Sherwin-Williams goes ahead with a signature skyscraper near Public Square. We are all waiting and watchful .... ? An announcement would likely following a decision on an RFP. Don't expect one with the release of the RFP. Any announcement would come after SHW choosing a proposal. So we're probably at least least six months away from that, perhaps into early 2020. And Scene magazine?? Why would anyone in the business community leak something to Scene? "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 20, 20196 yr 27 minutes ago, inlovewithCLE said: Do you think Jacobs and Weston can work together? It’s a lot on the line to make this work. We CANNOT have them going to the suburbs. It’d be bad for the city, bad for SW, bad all around I think that a 2 11 story R&D buildings plus a parking garage can me worked out between Weston & Jacobs on the parcel north of Frankforth ave. But the southern parcel on superior ave Weston has to be looking for something more than 11 stories. That parcel is prime for something 25-30 stories tall. A lot has to do with what the stark building buyer has in mind for his purchase of the Stark building.
May 20, 20196 yr These guys are really going to move to the burbs? They are just being fair to the RFP process
May 20, 20196 yr 2 minutes ago, BelievelandD1 said: These guys are really going to move to the burbs? They are just being fair to the RFP process I hope so. The mere thought of them going to the burbs makes me ill
May 20, 20196 yr 21 minutes ago, inlovewithCLE said: I hope so. The mere thought of them going to the burbs makes me ill Doesn't their HQ have to be located near the original site? Also, it seems like the phase of corporate HQs to moving to the suburbs is dying down. Suburban Cleveland HQs have been putting in little offices Downtown with a couple hundred employees, which seems to mark a potential trend of a reversal?
May 20, 20196 yr FWIW Sherwin WIlliams put a few million dollars into repairing the bulkheads next to the Breen R&D center in that past couple of years.
May 20, 20196 yr 1 hour ago, inlovewithCLE said: I hope so. The mere thought of them going to the burbs makes me ill Any Chance of building on that sliver of a parcel next to where their mural is. The had a proposal there 20 years ago. It was a nice building proposal. I am sure someone can find that proposal and post it. I think that parcel is now too small.
May 20, 20196 yr Author 58 minutes ago, 3231 said: FWIW Sherwin WIlliams put a few million dollars into repairing the bulkheads next to the Breen R&D center in that past couple of years. They also spent at least $740,000 to renovate 4770-4780 Hinckley Industrial Parkway as a temporary flex office space. 33 minutes ago, ASPhotoman said: Any chances this gets built in the Scranton Peninsula Thunderbird development? Anything is possible. Or at least that's what SHW wants RFP respondents to think. BTW, source just called and said that the RFP is being fast-tracked by SHW. They want it in front of development teams by the end of the year. 9 minutes ago, simplythis said: Any Chance of building on that sliver of a parcel next to where their mural is. The had a proposal there 20 years ago. It was a nice building proposal. I am sure someone can find that proposal and post it. I think that parcel is now too small. Hard to believe this one is already 30 years old. By itself, it's way too small, but not if SHW keeps its presence in Landmark.... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 20, 20196 yr Sherwin-Williams, if you are reading this, please PLEASE put a shiny new skyscraper downtown. Cleveland will forever love you!! Edited May 20, 20196 yr by jbee1982
May 20, 20196 yr Good God I hope hope hope they build a massive skyscaper on the Jacobs Lot......but my question is now that everyone has read Clevelands proposal to Amazon, how aggressive will SW be in getting concessions and tax breaks? Were talking keeping 4-6,000 jobs downtown, and the City has laid out what they were willing to give to a massive employer
May 20, 20196 yr As KJP mentioned above, an interesting possibility is the old Tower City Phase II site, essentially the parking lot and riverfront just below Tower City. This could meld seamlessly with SW's existing research facility and you have to think Rock Ventures would be a very willing partner. The site might be more expensive to develop, but if Rock Ventures can capture some of the benefits through Tower City viability, they might make up some of the difference in pricing.
May 20, 20196 yr ^^Good point. I think with Amazon the city was showing major employers what it may be willing to do in order to keep or draw employment. Having said that, I hope that they build on Jacob's lot, but will expect them to move to the suburbs- that way I'm not disappointed.
May 20, 20196 yr 2 hours ago, KJP said: They also spent at least $740,000 to renovate 4770-4780 Hinckley Industrial Parkway as a temporary flex office space. Anything is possible. Or at least that's what SHW wants RFP respondents to think. BTW, source just called and said that the RFP is being fast-tracked by SHW. They want it in front of development teams by the end of the year. Hard to believe this one is already 30 years old. By itself, it's way too small, but not if SHW keeps its presence in Landmark.... Add 25 floors to this. Would make a dramatic “gateway”. Combined with Nucleus.....but yeah, PS site definitely preferred. Just please no suburbs. They might as well move to Tennessee.
May 21, 20196 yr 3 hours ago, Oldmanladyluck said: ^^Good point. I think with Amazon the city was showing major employers what it may be willing to do in order to keep or draw employment. Having said that, I hope that they build on Jacob's lot, but will expect them to move to the suburbs- that way I'm not disappointed. This is what I was thinking. There's plenty of room between Jacob's lot, other lots nearby in Warehouse District, and the flats for SW or (any company) to build a nice campus of buildings. There's so much empty land in our urban core. If SW completely left the Landmark buildings, I don't think it would take long to sell them? They'd make great apartments or even more offices.
May 21, 20196 yr @KJP getting a little bit of love A new headquarters for Cleveland paint giant Sherwin-Williams? Paint giant Sherwin-Williams could be considering a new headquarters, as space grows tight in the Cleveland offices. Ken Prendergrast of NEOTrans, an economic development and transportation blog, reported multiple sources saying that Sherwin Williams officials are preparing a request for proposals to build a new headquarters. The company has no comment, Sherwin-Williams Director of Corporate Communications Mike Conway told cleveland.com Tuesday morning. Sherwin-Williams’ headquarters are on Prospect Avenue, near Tower City and across from the Rocket Mortgage FieldHouse. You might be familiar with the giant banner featuring a mosaic of Cleveland faces in the shape of one of the city’s iconic “Guardians of Traffic" statues (which replaced the giant LeBron James banner when he left the Cavs). The company houses its research and development facilities nearby, at the Breen Technology Center on Canal Road in the Flats. NEOTrans did not report a specific target location for the headquarters. Prendergrast wrote that sources say “everything is on the table" and that a request for proposals is expected by year’s end. He has written about a potential move earlier this year, as well as in 2018. More here: https://www.cleveland.com/business/2019/05/a-new-headquarters-for-cleveland-paint-giant-sherwin-williams.html
May 21, 20196 yr Author Well, "No comment" is better than "He's full of sh!t"..... ? "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 21, 20196 yr 20 hours ago, Chazz Michael Michaels said: Hard to see why a company would want to move to the suburbs today, if part of the reason for building a new headquarters and R&D center is to attract top talent. As the article mentions, Eaton made a move that was against the trend back into the urban core. SWH would be wise to find a solution in the city, if possible I figured Eaton would regret their move to the suburbs. It was totally backward thinking and it has and likely will continue to cost the company little by little as they lose and can't attract top talent. I think and hope that Eaton will be the last big exodus to the suburbs. Progressive's decision to move their creative talent back into downtown is an excellent example of this dynamic. A vibrant urban environment is so much more conducive to corporate success in the 21st century knowledge-based economy, versus an office park. Especially in the midwest where the weather can't attract talent, so what these cities can still offer is a fun dynamic livable urban environment filled with amenities. Young top talent does not want to be in the suburbs living the Office Space life and getting lunch at Chotchkie's every day. Edited May 21, 20196 yr by NYC Boomerang
May 21, 20196 yr 33 minutes ago, NYC Boomerang said: I figured Eaton would regret their move to the suburbs. It was totally backward thinking and it has and likely will continue to cost the company little by little as they lose and can't attract top talent. I think and hope that Eaton will be the last big exodus to the suburbs. Progressive's decision to move their creative talent back into downtown is an excellent example of this dynamic. A vibrant urban environment is so much more conducive to corporate success in the 21st century knowledge-based economy, versus an office park. Especially in the midwest where the weather can't attract talent, so what these cities can still offer is a fun dynamic livable urban environment filled with amenities. Young top talent does not want to be in the suburbs living the Office Space life and getting lunch at Chotchkie's every day. I would love to hear more about that. I know it was a footnote in KJP’s larger story but I would love to hear more about Eaton regretting their move to the suburbs. It was dumb when they did it and it’s dumb now. At this point though, the question is what could they do about it? I do hope though that SHW sees that and doesn’t make the same mistake
May 21, 20196 yr SW moving to the burbs would be equivalent to Art Modell moving the Browns to Baltimore.?
May 21, 20196 yr KJP--great job! The Plain Dealer is covering SW based on your scoop and journalistic sleuthing!
May 21, 20196 yr Author Thanks. I'd still like to get my hands on the SHW HQ rendering from 2015 or so. The person who had it but can't seem to find it among old e-mails said the tower was 900 feet tall and twisted near the top (see below for examples). Pretty bold for a conservative company like SHW! Also interesting is that it showed another building, perhaps about 600 feet tall, right next to it. The source had no idea what that building was for. Perhaps it was the proposed Weston tower on the SE corner of the Superblock?? So.... I'll make the same offer to anyone as I did to the source that had it but can't find it -- if you send it to me at [email protected], I'll publish only a printscreen version of it so that the digital signature stops with me. And, I'll buy you lunch too. ? "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 21, 20196 yr Wow. Not sure if I like any of those, though the 2nd one would be good for the Cleveland Twist Drill company if they were still around by that name. I guess the third one is kind of interesting. That said, I'm all for something along these lines--we need some new interesting buidling designs and/or color in our skyline.
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