Guys lets not start attacking each other. If someone has information to share than let them share it and ask follow up questions, instead of bashing them on the spot because it's not something you want to hear. We have to be realistic here and accept 2 realities of SW staying in Cleveland and SW leaving Cleveland. Right now, both are very true.

15 minutes ago, Villager said:

Here is what I heard....  S-W was planning on building a HQ and R&D complex on Burke Lakefront, but that deal fell through.   S-W would prefer to stay in Downtown Cleveland, but would be willing to move, if they get a much better deal elsewhere... Pittsburgh was recently being evaluated as a potential site as well.

 

The FAA would require a request from the City to close BKL. Once proposed, it could take 20 years to come to fruition, so that's a non-starter.

1 minute ago, troeros said:

Guys lets not start attacking each other. If someone has information to share than let them share it and ask follow up questions, instead of bashing them on the spot because it's not something you want to hear. We have to be realistic here and accept 2 realities of SW staying in Cleveland and SW leaving Cleveland. Right now, both are very true.

So you’re fine with someone posting something that makes no sense? I just don’t get entertaining people to post nonsense but whatever we can let the poster go on in this tangent. 

3 minutes ago, WindyBuckeye said:

Yeah nonsense. Explain to me how Burke would make any sense financially or strategically especially in their time frame they want for a move? Same question on moving to Pittsburgh where their biggest competitor is already established and would hinder their growth and SW would be the outsider and already be at a disadvantage to start. How does that make sense? You’re probably that Cleveland trust guy. 

1. Burke has a lot of space available, plus enough for additional development. I am guessing the money to pay off the FAA was ultimately too much.  2.  Pittsburgh wasn't the only place being considered, but one of several.

It's possible he's confusing it with the Lakefront site controlled by Pace? Last go around, PS, Pace's lakefront plan and FEB were all contenders, with PS winning out as the preferred site. 

Edited September 17, 20195 yr by Clefan98

2 minutes ago, WindyBuckeye said:

So you’re fine with someone posting something that makes no sense? I just don’t get entertaining people to post nonsense but whatever we can let the poster go on in this tangent. 

 

Let him explain... and if he chooses to not explain/or follow with vague responses than just ignore and move on. It's quite simple. 

2 minutes ago, troeros said:

 

Let him explain... and if he chooses to not explain/or follow with vague responses than just ignore and move on. It's quite simple. 

Okay

4 minutes ago, Clefan98 said:

It's possible he's confusing it with the Lakefront site controlled by Pace? Last go around, PS, Pace's lakefront plan and FEB were all contenders, with PS winning out as the preferred site. 

When was this? That’s interesting to know. I like pace or PS most

3 minutes ago, troeros said:

 

Let him explain... and if he chooses to not explain/or follow with vague responses than just ignore and move on. It's quite simple. 

This was info provided from someone who is in a position to know.  Not a first hand account, but I trust this person... at least so far.

5 minutes ago, Villager said:

1. Burke has a lot of space available, plus enough for additional development. I am guessing the money to pay off the FAA was ultimately too much.  2.  Pittsburgh wasn't the only place being considered, but one of several.

Okay doubt Burke was ever an option but

maybe small inquiries were sent.

Just now, WindyBuckeye said:

Okay doubt Burke was ever an option but

maybe small inquiries were sent.

Why not?  Mayor Dailey shut down Meigs field after 9/11, paid a 33k fine, and it was a park 3 years later.

3 minutes ago, WindyBuckeye said:

When was this? That’s interesting to know. I like pace or PS most

 

2014/2015 - pre Valspar.

1 minute ago, Villager said:

Why not?  Mayor Dailey shut down Meigs field after 9/11, paid a 33k fine, and it was a park 3 years later.

CLE isn't Chicago. The City does not and has never had the appetite to shutter BKL. It has been proposed numerous times over the decades and despite a decrease in utilization and CLE's loss of hub status, the City still argues that "BKL is a reliever airport for CLE."  BKL isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

8 minutes ago, WindyBuckeye said:

Okay doubt Burke was ever an option but

maybe small inquiries were sent.

 

As Morikis was promoted to chief executive officer effective Jan 1, 2016, the search for a new headquarters went into high gear. Major downtown developers and property owners were contacted about constructing a roughly 40-story office building with modern floor plates averaging no more than 30,000 square feet so that open working spaces can be illuminated with natural light and foster more employee collaboration. Modern open-floor configurations also typically reduce the need for space by about 20 percent compared to the inefficient, enclosed rooms that SHW office workers are in now.

Those contacted reportedly include (see graphics at end of blog posting):

Geis Companies plans a low-rise, multi-building office campus called the Burke Development District at the west end of Burke Lakefront Airport that could accommodate 750,000 square feet of offices. Geis is also reportedly seeking to develop properties north and south of Playhouse Square;

 

http://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2016/03/

 

4 minutes ago, Villager said:

Why not?  Mayor Dailey shut down Meigs field after 9/11, paid a 33k fine, and it was a park 3 years later.

Are you saying the plan included shutting down Burke? It was asked of @Clefan98 and I'll ask it of you about your source:  Do they work at SHW, work in real estate, work in government?

2 minutes ago, Frmr CLEder said:

CLE isn't Chicago. The City does not and has never had the appetite to shutter BKL. It has been proposed numerous times over the decades and despite a decrease in utilization and CLE's loss of hub status, the City still argues that "BKL is a reliever airport for CLE."  BKL isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

 

"the City still argues that "BKL is a reliever airport for CLE." "

 

um, it IS a reliever for CLE.  You really want all those little planes delaying your commercial flights when departing or arriving?

2 minutes ago, surfohio said:

 

As Morikis was promoted to chief executive officer effective Jan 1, 2016, the search for a new headquarters went into high gear. Major downtown developers and property owners were contacted about constructing a roughly 40-story office building with modern floor plates averaging no more than 30,000 square feet so that open working spaces can be illuminated with natural light and foster more employee collaboration. Modern open-floor configurations also typically reduce the need for space by about 20 percent compared to the inefficient, enclosed rooms that SHW office workers are in now.

Those contacted reportedly include (see graphics at end of blog posting):

Geis Companies plans a low-rise, multi-building office campus called the Burke Development District at the west end of Burke Lakefront Airport that could accommodate 750,000 square feet of offices. Geis is also reportedly seeking to develop properties north and south of Playhouse Square;

 

http://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2016/03/

 

Isn’t the needed square footage above one million now? Also that land isn’t the actual airport.

Does SW CEO have any connection to Cleveland whatsoever? 

 

If I recall correctly he spent the majority of his youth in larger US cities. 

1 minute ago, troeros said:

Does SW CEO have any connection to Cleveland whatsoever? 

 

If I recall correctly he spent the majority of his youth in larger US cities. 

 

He is a Sherwin-Williams lifer, but much of his early career (1984-99) was on the East Coast but since then he has lived in Greater Cleveland.

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/profile/person/3928740

3 hours ago, Dougal said:

 

Eh? Luxottica Retail headquarters has been based in Mason Ohio for a few decades Lens crafters brand ect.Chiquita left Cincinnati for Charlotte then moved HQ again.Toyota North America Headquarters left Erlanger Ky both over CVG flight concerns.That covers Cincinnati metro HQ losses.

6 minutes ago, WindyBuckeye said:

Isn’t the needed square footage above one million now? Also that land isn’t the actual airport.

It's not the runway obviously. But whether the proposed development was "at the airport" is a semantics issue in this case. 

1 hour ago, Pugu said:

 

@marty15 - If you're referring to Burke, its code is BKL, not BKE.

 

Whoops! ? 

I also wonder if a bigger city could mean better talent acquisition for SW..I mean CLE isn't a slouch but some of the sharpest minds tend to to live in much larger metros

An area west of BKL and/or north of RRHF or FES (Pace Development), could provide another location for an "urban campus," albeit without the highrise.

Quote

QUOTE BY TROEROS:   I also wonder if a bigger city could mean better talent acquisition for SW..I mean CLE isn't a slouch but some of the sharpest minds tend to to live in much larger metros

 

 

Yeah, way to go, @troeros. Insult the leadership and staff of SW....

Edited September 17, 20195 yr by Pugu

I can tell you they've been struggling to fill high-level tech positions. Go to their career site and browse available jobs. Most are in software development/software engineering and have been unfilled for quite some time. I fear this could be the #1 reason why an outside city has a chance in this race.

Edited September 17, 20195 yr by Clefan98

From KJP's post, it looks like the SW chairman is on the board of directors at UH Ahuja? If SW is integrated with Cleveland enough to be on the board of one of its biggest hospital systems (which albeit is struggling a bit...), why would they leave Cleveland?

"Most are in software development/software engineering." These are not unique to SW or to Cleveland. Those are hot jobs everywhere. 

18 minutes ago, Frmr CLEder said:

"Most are in software development/software engineering." These are not unique to SW or to Cleveland. Those are hot jobs everywhere. 

 

I never said those jobs are unique to Cleveland. The purpose of mentioning the plethora of available software jobs is because SHW is having a hard time filling them. They're not even getting applicants for 80K+ salaries. That's literally the only reason I think there's a chance they could bolt town.

 

I can assure you I hope that's not the case!

 

I could also see the possibility of Sherwin wanting to open dual HQ's. A global HQ elsewhere, combined with a centralized HQ here in Cleveland. 

Edited September 17, 20195 yr by Clefan98

Best not to move from your roots, you already have qualified and technical staff trained for the job, but if you move it's just a major shortfall on the budget rehiring, retraining, and basically 'Hard resetting' the business. I don't think their investors would be too happy to hear they're having some money and talent troubles every proceeding quarter. In my eyes and my financial buddy, there's no feasible way.

 

Everyone looks at Amazon as a model when they chose their HQ2   (which we all know how that deal went down lol)  but they didn't move their entire operation. They have their core entity making money, taking orders, and continually serve the public;  All while HQ2 would theoretically be built and staffed basically as a brand-new large-scale startup company. Which I'm sure there's gotta be alot of hiccups even for this type of a plan. But everyone, INCLUDING major Cleveland news sources is making it sound like they're just going to pack up and leave. That's just absurd.

 

Guys, for the last time... They're not going anywhere... It's financially unfeasible the amount of resources needed here and at the new HQ to hire and provide markups for an HQ you're not going to be employed at. They haven't told anyone to pack up shop yet, but the fact that no ordinary employee is just keeping their mouth super glued, I'm sure there would be major outrage and large employee outages from the start. Hell I'm sure we'd theoretically be seeing SW lay off many of it's employees just so they could move. But that's another large loss in your finances trying to come up with retirement and separation packages for each employee, personnel loss means net loss of your capital gains which is basically a bank overdraft scheme, and there's just too much to even talk about.

 

There's no reason to move an entire operation when you're making money, let alone a copious amount of money. Cleveland is a very centralized location, which basically has everything you need door to door, and it would increase your community if they just built their R&D with the HQ right alongside. It just makes too much sense.

 

Moral of the story is, I'm really getting tired of all of these attacks and all the nay-say-ers who are just jumping to conclusions. I don't want this thread getting locked because somebody has some really unrelateable news or theories. Stick to your sources, not your conspiracies. My best guess is that many people are just angry that there would be such a big media outcry, and that the mayor isn't responding to anything we have questions on. But here's the thing;  if the mayor has nothing to say about it, there's probably legitimately nothing wrong happening.  Ever hear if there's no news it's probably good news that there is no news? That phrase is like bible study in the military.

 

PLEASE
CALM
DOWN

Who are all these people in here? Lol. Lots of new people to say the least! Haha.

2 hours ago, troeros said:

We have to be realistic here and accept 2 realities of SW staying in Cleveland and SW leaving Cleveland. Right now, both are very true.

AKA... Schroedinger's Skyscraper?

2 minutes ago, X said:

AKA... Schroedinger's Skyscraper?

 

So it gets built in Cleveland, maybe just not in our preferred reality. Ugh

21 minutes ago, tastybunns said:

Best not to move from your roots, you already have qualified and technical staff trained for the job, but if you move it's just a major shortfall on the budget rehiring, retraining, and basically 'Hard resetting' the business. I don't think their investors would be too happy to hear they're having some money and talent troubles every proceeding quarter. In my eyes and my financial buddy, there's no feasible way.

 

Everyone looks at Amazon as a model when they chose their HQ2   (which we all know how that deal went down lol)  but they didn't move their entire operation. They have their core entity making money, taking orders, and continually serve the public;  All while HQ2 would theoretically be built and staffed basically as a brand-new large-scale startup company. Which I'm sure there's gotta be alot of hiccups even for this type of a plan. But everyone, INCLUDING major Cleveland news sources is making it sound like they're just going to pack up and leave. That's just absurd.

 

Guys, for the last time... They're not going anywhere... It's financially unfeasible the amount of resources needed here and at the new HQ to hire and provide markups for an HQ you're not going to be employed at. They haven't told anyone to pack up shop yet, but the fact that no ordinary employee is just keeping their mouth super glued, I'm sure there would be major outrage and large employee outages from the start. Hell I'm sure we'd theoretically be seeing SW lay off many of it's employees just so they could move. But that's another large loss in your finances trying to come up with retirement and separation packages for each employee, personnel loss means net loss of your capital gains which is basically a bank overdraft scheme, and there's just too much to even talk about.

 

There's no reason to move an entire operation when you're making money, let alone a copious amount of money. Cleveland is a very centralized location, which basically has everything you need door to door, and it would increase your community if they just built their R&D with the HQ right alongside. It just makes too much sense.

 

Moral of the story is, I'm really getting tired of all of these attacks and all the nay-say-ers who are just jumping to conclusions. I don't want this thread getting locked because somebody has some really unrelateable news or theories. Stick to your sources, not your conspiracies. My best guess is that many people are just angry that there would be such a big media outcry, and that the mayor isn't responding to anything we have questions on. But here's the thing;  if the mayor has nothing to say about it, there's probably legitimately nothing wrong happening.  Ever hear if there's no news it's probably good news that there is no news? That phrase is like bible study in the military.

 

PLEASE
CALM
DOWN

 

I mean to be fair the few posters who have commented about SW possibly looking outside of Ohio for the HQ are using sources rather than theories...

 

I mean to be fair we trust KJP because he has sources that have tendencies to prove accurate. That said, even if they don't come true we still listen to them. 

 

Same should go for any poster who says they have sourced information. We should take it at face value and realize that like any, "he said/she said" information could pose to be accurate or in accurate. 

 

Just a disclaimer I would bet money that SW stays in Cleveland, but in the same token I would be shocked if they are not doing their due diligence in researching if other states would welcome them with better incentives than Cleveland is offering. 

 

Edited September 17, 20195 yr by troeros

It is always tough to trust sources of posters who are brand new and are rather vague and won't go into more detail on where their source is coming from. I guess it is just wait and see with a lot of this.

Edited September 17, 20195 yr by WindyBuckeye

16 minutes ago, WindyBuckeye said:

It is always tough to trust sources of posters who are brand new and are rather vague and won't go into more detail on where their source is coming from. I guess it is just wait and see with a lot of this.

 

To be fair CleFan98 has said previously  in what capacity his source works if it is the same source and it’s pretty legit.

 

14 minutes ago, cle_guy90 said:

 

To be fair CleFan98 has said previously  in what capacity his source works if it is the same source and it’s pretty legit.

 

Good to know. thanks!

my guy works in their financial division, so he oversees all the books. If he sees something out of the ordinary he will definitely get back to me.

4 minutes ago, tastybunns said:

my guy works in their financial division, so he oversees all the books. If he sees something out of the ordinary he will definitely get back to me.

 

FINRA be damned

Financial Williams if i must say, lol

I certainly hope (and I believe) we are past the era of midwestern corporations packing up and heading to Atlanta out of the blue, but it has happened. Rubbermaid, NCR come to mind. 

 

But we need to get our s@#t together in regards to the talent pool. That's killing us. Keep pouring $$ into breweries to keep attracting the kiddos I guess.

Edited September 18, 20195 yr by mu2010

4 hours ago, Pugu said:

 

"the City still argues that "BKL is a reliever airport for CLE." "

 

um, it IS a reliever for CLE.  You really want all those little planes delaying your commercial flights when departing or arriving?

I rarely fly in/out of CLE anymore, but 9-10M passengers/year is down from it's high of 13M in 2000. That being said, it could easily accommodate the 30K planes using BKL/yr if need be.

There are now parallel runways.

But to get back to topic, the lakefront could be another viable option for a low-rise urban campus.

Edited September 18, 20195 yr by Frmr CLEder

Another thing to think about. This is a tight labor market. Trying to restaff in another market I’d think would be quite difficult, just to add to all the other negatives a move would bring a company the size of SHW. 

If Akron, Summit County, the State and Team NEO could bring the Smithers Company's HQ to Akron, I have no doubt the same can be done for SW in Cleveland.

 

"The deal involved Smithers, the county, the DFA, city of Akron, JobsOhio, FirstEnergy, Akron Children’s Hospital, Huntington Bank and Team NEO."

11 minutes ago, Frmr CLEder said:

If Akron, Summit County, the State and Team NEO could bring the Smithers Company's HQ to Akron, I have no doubt the same can be done for SW in Cleveland.

 

"The deal involved Smithers, the county, the DFA, city of Akron, JobsOhio, FirstEnergy, Akron Children’s Hospital, Huntington Bank and Team NEO."

 

Is this the same Smithers-Oasis that’s in Kent, Ohio? Wasn’t it founded in Kent and then moved to Cuyahoga Falls before moving back to Kent?

 

also—sorry for my first post in this quote dramatic of days to be completely unrelated to S-W.

 

to bring it back on topic... SHEEEESHHHH, you all had a busy day! This was exhausting to catch up on! ?

4 minutes ago, Clevecane said:

 

Is this the same Smithers-Oasis that’s in Kent, Ohio? Wasn’t it founded in Kent and then moved to Cuyahoga Falls before moving back to Kent?

 

also—sorry for my first post in this quote dramatic of days to be completely unrelated to S-W.

 

to bring it back on topic... SHEEEESHHHH, you all had a busy day! This was exhausting to catch up on! ?

https://www.cleveland.com/business/2019/09/akron-summit-county-partner-to-bring-smithers-headquarters-to-downtown.html

My trusted, high level, source says SHW will be moving their HQ to Novosibirsk, with R&D setting up shop in Kemerovo. Lots of skilled engineers, and cheaper wages. Can't give any details as to where my source or info is from, but someone definitely said it and so I say its true.

 

/sarcasm

I regret reading through/catching up on the 3 previous pages, buncha stuff thats going to get chopped from the forum. I like posts that are based in fact, and there's a handful of people on here that actually prove their muster.

 

Its a very fine line of what makes this UO and not cleveland.com, reddit, or something similar. I don't see a problem in trying to vet someone's post that's a 180° turn from what's been said the previous 15 pages.

 

Lastly, its not burning a source of you actually go into the most minor of details- @KJPis a great example- the guy has arguably more sources than most local reporters combined and still has them despite leaving breadcrumbs out there.

Edited September 18, 20195 yr by GISguy

here's my thoughts on the Burke airport site discussion....  airport closure issues aside, there's no infrastructure out there to build a skyscraper  OR a campus.  YOu'd need roads, utilities and amenities....  any other site already has hotels, utilities, restaurants, parking, etc right closeby.  So I don't see Burke being a realistic site.  but that's me.  Cleveland has a ton of development potential before we need to start exploring that old airport as an option...

11 hours ago, GISguy said:

I regret reading through/catching up on the 3 previous pages, buncha stuff thats going to get chopped from the forum. I like posts that are based in fact, and there's a handful of people on here that actually prove their muster.

 

Its a very fine line of what makes this UO and not cleveland.com, reddit, or something similar. I don't see a problem in trying to vet someone's post that's a 180° turn from what's been said the previous 15 pages.

 

Lastly, its not burning a source of you actually go into the most minor of details- @KJPis a great example- the guy has arguably more sources than most local reporters combined and still has them despite leaving breadcrumbs out there.

 

This sounds like it's directed at me, so I'm going to respond. I've been posting on this site for over 10yrs, and I can guarantee you the few forum members with my tenure know I don't post BS. I don't give two s's or a f if you don't believe me or my source, but I'm going to keep posting when I hear something I know to be fact.

 

I realize there's a bunch of fragile newbies that would rather hear what you want to hear, rather than accurate/true information. If that's you, maybe you're the one who belongs on those other sites.

 

The reason I can't leave ANY breabcrumbs is because my source checks this forum and knows my screen name. I gave them my word, and their trust is something I value way more than some rando internet guy's opinion of me.