12 hours ago, Frmr CLEder said:

I rarely fly in/out of CLE anymore, but 9-10M passengers/year is down from it's high of 13M in 2000. That being said, it could easily accommodate the 30K planes using BKL/yr if need be.

There are now parallel runways.

But to get back to topic, the lakefront could be another viable option for a low-rise urban campus.

 

Not to mention Cuyahoga County and Lost Nation both within 30 mins. 

Just now, Clefan98 said:

 

This sounds like it's directed at me, so I'm going to respond. I've been posting on this site for over 10yrs, and I can guarantee you the few forum members with my tenure know I don't post BS. I don't give two s's or a f if you don't believe me or my source, but I'm going to keep posting when I hear something I know to be fact.

 

I realize there's a bunch of fragile newbies that would rather hear what you want to hear, rather than accurate/true information. If that's you, maybe you're the one who belongs on those other sites.

 

The reason I can't leave ANY breabcrumbs is because my source checks this forum and knows my screen name. I gave them my word, and their trust is something I value way more than some rando internet guy's opinion of me.

 

It's not just at you, multiple people in the past few pages have made statements that are not based in any type of fact other than 'I heard from someone somewhere'. I don't understand the need to get offended when people dig into your sources and takes- especially with something as transformative as this project. If I make a huge statement as you did, I'd expect a full on fact finding mission aimed at me from members here, and wouldn't get all upset when people try and dig.

 

My intention wasn't to aim this at you, but just a general statement, but if you took offense, sorry.

 

Finally, as I stated above, I came to UO to avoid bs from other sites- no matter if the news is good or bad for the region (feel free to dig through my post history), sure I might not have a tenure such as yours, but it's no reason to gatekeep.

10 hours ago, gottaplan said:

here's my thoughts on the Burke airport site discussion....  airport closure issues aside, there's no infrastructure out there to build a skyscraper  OR a campus.  YOu'd need roads, utilities and amenities....  any other site already has hotels, utilities, restaurants, parking, etc right closeby.  So I don't see Burke being a realistic site.  but that's me.  Cleveland has a ton of development potential before we need to start exploring that old airport as an option...

 

I think there was a proposal by Geis for an office campus type of development on the edge of Burke near 9th Street.  I think that could be a legitimate site if SW wants a campus style setting. 

 

I am not sure if Geis still has an option on the land though. 

Edited September 18, 20195 yr by freefourur

3 minutes ago, Clefan98 said:

 

This sounds like it's directed at me, so I'm going to respond. I've been posting on this site for over 10yrs, and I can guarantee you the few forum members with my tenure know I don't post BS. I don't give two s's or a f if you don't believe me or my source, but I'm going to keep posting when I hear something I know to be fact.

 

I realize there's a bunch of fragile newbies that would rather hear what you want to hear, rather than accurate/true information. If that's you, maybe you're the one who belongs on those other sites.

 

The reason I can't leave ANY breabcrumbs is because my source checks this forum and knows my screen name. I gave them my word, and their trust is something I value way more than some rando internet guy's opinion of me.

 

@Clefan98 shortly after your post and the uproar it apparently caused, @KJP posted a response which had different information and was very different in tone from yours.  I am curious if you have any thoughts (would probably just be speculation on your part but that is OK as this thread is loaded with it) as to why two individuals with "inside information" are coming to different conclusions.  This all seems very strange to me.

11 hours ago, Clevecane said:

 

Is this the same Smithers-Oasis that’s in Kent, Ohio? Wasn’t it founded in Kent and then moved to Cuyahoga Falls before moving back to Kent?

 

also—sorry for my first post in this quote dramatic of days to be completely unrelated to S-W.

 

to bring it back on topic... SHEEEESHHHH, you all had a busy day! This was exhausting to catch up on! ?

No, it's not the same company.  Smithers-Oasis makes floral foam.

Clefan98 can correct if I’m wrong, but all I think he was trying to say was SW is doing a national search. I don’t think he meant they were definitely leaving. I took it as SW staying in Cleveland isn’t a foregone conclusion and the city/county will have to work. 

6 minutes ago, Htsguy said:

@Clefan98 shortly after your post and the uproar it apparently caused, @KJP posted a response which had different information and was very different in tone from yours.  I am curious if you have any thoughts (would probably just be speculation on your part but that is OK as this thread is loaded with it) as to why two individuals with "inside information" are coming to different conclusions.  This all seems very strange to me.

And dont forget the poster who had lunch with someone in the know who said it would be built on the Nucleus site

2 minutes ago, B767PILOT said:

And dont forget the poster who had lunch with someone in the know who said it would be built on the Nucleus site

You forgot to mention that that poster prefaced this information by stated that his lunch companion was an important person in town who knew all the other important people in town and was keyed in to all the news.

13 minutes ago, Htsguy said:

@Clefan98 shortly after your post and the uproar it apparently caused, @KJP posted a response which had different information and was very different in tone from yours.  I am curious if you have any thoughts (would probably just be speculation on your part but that is OK as this thread is loaded with it) as to why two individuals with "inside information" are coming to different conclusions.  This all seems very strange to me.

 

Before yesterday, everything I was hearing matched exactly what KJP, YABO and a few others here had mentioned. I was provided new information yesterday morning that lead me to believe it's a two man race between a downtown HQ and another site out-of-state. That's why I speculated the 50/50 odds. In hindsight, Cleveland probably does have the edge, so I apologize for misspeaking. I do know the threat of SHW leaving was not an extortion attempt to get tax incentives, they really are exploring all options. I'm shocked that some people find this unbelievable. SHW is a global corporation who answers to a board and shareholders, not to their employee's or our wishes.

Edited September 18, 20195 yr by Clefan98

1 minute ago, Clefan98 said:

 

Before yesterday, everything I was hearing matched exactly what KJP, YABO and a few others here had mentioned. I was provided new information yesterday morning that lead me to believe it's a two man race between a downtown HQ and another site out-of-state. That's why I speculated the 50/50 odds. In hindsight, Cleveland probably does have the edge, so I apologize for misspeaking. I do know the threat of SHW leaving was not an extortion to get tax incentives, they really are exploring all options. I'm shocked that some people find this unbelievable. SHW is a global corporation who answers to a board and shareholders, not to their employee's or our wishes.

Thanks

I think the bottom line with all of this is that we have to wait, assume civic leadership is doing everything they can to seal the deal and hope for the best.

Time to start writing to my elected officials ?

9 minutes ago, Htsguy said:

@Clefan98 shortly after your post and the uproar it apparently caused, @KJP posted a response which had different information and was very different in tone from yours.  I am curious if you have any thoughts (would probably just be speculation on your part but that is OK as this thread is loaded with it) as to why two individuals with "inside information" are coming to different conclusions.  This all seems very strange to me.

 

I don't think the info was different. Just because SHW's agent had sent RFQs for downtown Cleveland sites, doesn't mean that other real estate developers/property owners outside of downtown haven't submitted their own proposals. As I said, I know that at least one has -- DiGeronimo, for the ex-VA site in Brecksville. There are likely others (perhaps many others) that have submitted proposals to SHW and/or its agent. Some of them are going to be amazing proposals and SHW would be crazy to not consider them. And it's possible that SHW/agent has sent out RFQs to other developers/property owners in other cities, although I find that unlikely because more than one of my sources would have been in a position to know about it.

 

But through all of this smoke and mirrors stuff that is already happening, and may get worse, remember this fundamental issue for SHW -- it is going to cost them hundreds of millions of dollars to relocate their HQ in terms of the physical move, hiring new employees, the accumulation of new know-how, the temporary loss in productivity/performance, etc. If SHW feels that those costs can eventually be recovered by somehow being more productive in another city, then there is nothing we can do to keep them here. But SHW became a successful company in Cleveland. And it is growing at a rapid rate in Cleveland now. If SHW feels that's not enough for them, then this isn't the SHW we all used to know. 

12 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

I don't think the info was different. Just because SHW's agent had sent RFQs for downtown Cleveland sites, doesn't mean that other real estate developers/property owners outside of downtown haven't submitted their own proposals. As I said, I know that at least one has -- DiGeronimo, for the ex-VA site in Brecksville. There are likely others (perhaps many others) that have submitted proposals to SHW and/or its agent. Some of them are going to be amazing proposals and SHW would be crazy to not consider them. And it's possible that SHW/agent has sent out RFQs to other developers/property owners in other cities, although I find that unlikely because more than one of my sources would have been in a position to know about it.

 

But through all of this smoke and mirrors stuff that is already happening, and may get worse, remember this fundamental issue for SHW -- it is going to cost them hundreds of millions of dollars to relocate their HQ in terms of the physical move, hiring new employees, the accumulation of new know-how, the temporary loss in productivity/performance, etc. If SHW feels that those costs can eventually be recovered by somehow being more productive in another city, then there is nothing we can do to keep them here. But SHW became a successful company in Cleveland. And it is growing at a rapid rate in Cleveland now. If SHW feels that's not enough for them, then this isn't the SHW we all used to know. 

 

In a quote the CEO stated they aren't projecting the short term, but the next, "100 years". 

 

I imagine whatever they have planned for the future, it's definitely long term. 

2 hours ago, Clefan98 said:

 

This sounds like it's directed at me, so I'm going to respond. I've been posting on this site for over 10yrs, and I can guarantee you the few forum members with my tenure know I don't post BS. I don't give two s's or a f if you don't believe me or my source, but I'm going to keep posting when I hear something I know to be fact.

 

I realize there's a bunch of fragile newbies that would rather hear what you want to hear, rather than accurate/true information. If that's you, maybe you're the one who belongs on those other sites.

 

The reason I can't leave ANY breabcrumbs is because my source checks this forum and knows my screen name. I gave them my word, and their trust is something I value way more than some rando internet guy's opinion of me.

 

I truly believe that within 90-120 days PS will be announced at selected site. I realize they are doing a national search but i find it hard to to believe that they are doing

this search whether it is Dallas or Charlotte or Nashville in TOTAL secrecy. I am sure that if SHW was serious about some other state that by this time

there would be some leakage of news.

11 minutes ago, simplythis said:

I truly believe that within 90-120 days PS will be announced at selected site. I realize they are doing a national search but i find it hard to to believe that they are doing

this search whether it is Dallas or Charlotte or Nashville in TOTAL secrecy. I am sure that if SHW was serious about some other state that by this time

there would be some leakage of news.

I was actually thinking the same think @simplythis  Cleveland is too small a town and there are too many wagging tongues (both in and outside of SHW) that if the company has "seriously" zeroed in on an out of town location for a new HQ-especially just one single location as has been suggested-somebody would have spilled the beans on that location even if they did it in a speculative manner.

2 minutes ago, Htsguy said:

I was actually thinking the same think @simplythis  Cleveland is too small a town and there are too many wagging tongues (both in and outside of SHW) that if the company has "seriously" zeroed in on an out of town location for a new HQ-especially just one single location as has been suggested-somebody would have spilled the beans on that location even if they did it in a speculative manner.

Actually, even given what I just posted I can think of one instances where a major move came out of nowhere and in secrecy and that was the Browns to Baltimore (even with the years of stadium drama the actual event came completely out of nowhere) but Modell and his sneaky crew were able to do it under the cover of the Indians playoff run and their first World Series in forever.

 

 

 

2 hours ago, freefourur said:

 

I think there was a proposal by Geis for an office campus type of development on the edge of Burke near 9th Street.  I think that could be a legitimate site if SW wants a campus style setting. 

 

I am not sure if Geis still has an option on the land though. 

whatever deal is finalized will include major incentives from the City.  It makes a lot more sense to attract development in the heart of downtown than trying to create a new hub elsewhere and leave parking lots on public square.  

Edited September 18, 20195 yr by gottaplan

^ I totally agree with you. But if SW wanted that type of setting, I wouldn't be upset if the city worked to make it happen.  My first priority is for SW is for them to stay in Cleveland. If that's possible, I prefer that they stay in the region/county. 

1 hour ago, Htsguy said:

Actually, even given what I just posted I can think of one instances where a major move came out of nowhere and in secrecy and that was the Browns to Baltimore (even with the years of stadium drama the actual event came completely out of nowhere) but Modell and his sneaky crew were able to do it under the cover of the Indians playoff run and their first World Series in forever.

 

 

 

Actually, there were rumours about that move. I remember reading something in the Times

33 minutes ago, B767PILOT said:

Actually, there were rumours about that move. I remember reading something in the Times

Were those rumors reported here, because as I recall we were all blindsided on this move.

I do remember rumors coming out 1 or 2 days before the announcement, but NOBODY

knew that Modell was negotiating with the Maryland Stadium Authority..

Just now, simplythis said:

Were those rumors reported here, because as I recall we were all blindsided on this move.

I do remember rumors coming out 1 or 2 days before the announcement, but NOBODY

knew that Modell was negotiating with the Maryland Stadium Authority..

I remember hearing rumors of the Browns going to LA at the time but I think Modell always threatened to move the team though. 

X

Edited February 14, 20205 yr by Clevander1005

39 minutes ago, B767PILOT said:

Actually, there were rumours about that move. I remember reading something in the Times

Agreed. Municipal Stadium had to go. The city needed new stadiums. The only way the City could make that happen was to lose the Browns temporarily, because of their long-term contract.

2 minutes ago, Clevander1005 said:

I'm an employee. CFO said we the employees will know in 60-90 days. He said not to panic, but we have to do due diligence when spending 1b of our shareholders money. That's all I know.

Good to know.

4 minutes ago, simplythis said:

Were those rumors reported here, because as I recall we were all blindsided on this move.

I do remember rumors coming out 1 or 2 days before the announcement, but NOBODY

knew that Modell was negotiating with the Maryland Stadium Authority..

The move was rumored but not the location

I should also say that during the same meeting different topic he said that we outperform our competition because of our employees and not because of systems etc. So there is that. Maybe I'm just optimistic but I see that as worth something  

11 minutes ago, Clevander1005 said:

I'm an employee. CFO said we the employees will know in 60-90 days. He said not to panic, but we have to do due diligence when spending 1b of our shareholders money. That's all I know.

Sort of similar to what many have been saying since the press release.  Need to do the standard corporate due diligence in order to cover butts with the shareholders (I am sure all my lawyer friends are advising this course).

14 minutes ago, Clevander1005 said:

I'm an employee. CFO said we the employees will know in 60-90 days. He said not to panic, but we have to do due diligence when spending 1b of our shareholders money. That's all I know.

 

Aka we are looking to see which state will give us better tax breaks and incentives before we make an announcement..

11 minutes ago, Clevander1005 said:

I'm an employee. CFO said we the employees will know in 60-90 days. He said not to panic, but we have to do due diligence when spending 1b of our shareholders money. That's all I know.

 

From my understanding, and it sounds like you’re confirming, the CFO is the one basically in charge of this whole process. While Public Square and the riverside site are under consideration, the CFO couldn’t care less about the Cleveland roots of the company from what I’ve heard. Not surprising to hear from an accountant.

16 minutes ago, Clevander1005 said:

I'm an employee. CFO said we the employees will know in 60-90 days. He said not to panic, but we have to do due diligence when spending 1b of our shareholders money. That's all I know.

Wow, couple more replies like this and the internet may break ?

8 minutes ago, w28th said:

 

From my understanding, and it sounds like you’re confirming, the CFO is the one basically in charge of this whole process. While Public Square and the riverside site are under consideration, the CFO couldn’t care less about the Cleveland roots of the company from what I’ve heard. Not surprising to hear from an accountant.

Makes sense that a CFO would be in charge of "the process" and unfortunately, in this regard, he can tailor the pertinent information which needs to be reviewed by others (CEO and Board), but ultimately (and based on your post this maybe a good thing) he doesn't make the final decision,

Edited September 18, 20195 yr by Htsguy

So, if Sherwin Williams leaves Cleveland, can I return the paint I bought (and used) last month?

 

Seriously, though, I'd love SHW to build a lofty tower on Public Square, as much as any other UrbanOhio commenter.  But at this point, all we have are rumors and speculation.

This line right here worries me “but we have to do due diligence when spending 1b of our shareholders money” To me that says we are leaving Cleveland but the employees are welcome to stay with the company and move to where the company is going. 

46 minutes ago, PaxtonMarley said:

So, if Sherwin Williams leaves Cleveland, can I return the paint I bought (and used) last month?

 

Seriously, though, I'd love SHW to build a lofty tower on Public Square, as much as any other UrbanOhio commenter.  But at this point, all we have are rumors and speculation.

I think that some of the posts here that people say comes from "reliable sources" are in fact very reliable like those from KJP and some others too!

7 minutes ago, PAZUZU said:

This line right here worries me “but we have to do due diligence when spending 1b of our shareholders money” To me that says we are leaving Cleveland but the employees are welcome to stay with the company and move to where the company is going. 

Or it is just normal company speak for a huge move where shareholder's opinions are everything for the business.

Totally S.O.P.

I agree but don’t you think if they were staying in Cleveland the CFO would have left it at “not to panic” and not said “but we have to do due diligence when spending 1b of our shareholders money” 

17 minutes ago, PAZUZU said:

This line right here worries me “but we have to do due diligence when spending 1b of our shareholders money” To me that says we are leaving Cleveland but the employees are welcome to stay with the company and move to where the company is going. 

 

Yeah, I guess we already know how Cleveland benefits SW and Vice Versa...but to play Devil's Advocate we also have to ask what does Cleveland fail to provide that other larger cities can provide and help facilitate further growth for SW?

 

I think it's only fair to look at both sides of the token. 

16 minutes ago, PAZUZU said:

This line right here worries me “but we have to do due diligence when spending 1b of our shareholders money” To me that says we are leaving Cleveland but the employees are welcome to stay with the company and move to where the company is going. 

Funny, when I say that line I had the complete opposite reaction and found it re- assuring.  I read it like "we are spending all this money so we have to do the standard text book (and legal) corporate due diligence which means we have to look at all options but don't worry about it in the end.

 

Strange how two people can come to such totally different conclusions.   Although I guess this whole thread is an example of that phenomenon.

14 minutes ago, PAZUZU said:

I agree but don’t you think if they were staying in Cleveland the CFO would have left it at “not to panic” and not said “but we have to do due diligence when spending 1b of our shareholders money” 

I think just company speak either way and there isn't too much to look into there, but we shall see.

1 hour ago, PaxtonMarley said:

So, if Sherwin Williams leaves Cleveland, can I return the paint I bought (and used) last month?

 

Seriously, though, I'd love SHW to build a lofty tower on Public Square, as much as any other UrbanOhio commenter.  But at this point, all we have are rumors and speculation.

 

May not be such a lofty tower. The CEO doesn't see the point (sorry, had to) in them.

16 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

May not be such a lofty tower. The CEO doesn't see the point (sorry, had to) in them.

 

I think I may agree with him.  One supertall would take the city back to the 50s with its one skyscraper that made the 20-25 story buildings look insignificant.  Something in the 30-40story range would be fine with me.

7 minutes ago, Dougal said:

 

I think I may agree with him.  One supertall would take the city back to the 50s with its one skyscraper that made the 20-25 story buildings look insignificant.  Something in the 30-40story range would be fine with me.

4-5 20-25 story buildings all over the surface lots please!

This is just my opinion but:

As a long time SW shareholder and from a purely financial perspective saying SW would have a tall order justifying a move out of Cleveland would be a huge understatement. Whether it’s a lateral move to a city like Pittsburgh or a higher profile (insert laugh) city like Dallas neither makes sense to me even considering the financial incentives another city will certainly offer.  In Cleveland, SW is becoming the undisputed leader in their industry, insanely profitable and growing which are clear facts. Why would they want to possibly risk any or all of this with a move?

Could SW be more successful in another city? This is a very large unknown and would be a huge and costly undertaking and could pose massive risks to all of their success which is something every sensible shareholder would have objections with.  The CEO may not give a crap about the deep ties the company has to Cleveland, although he should, and he is only ultimately accountable to the shareholders but in this case the only sensible and sound financial decision would be to stay in Cleveland where their success is safely guaranteed backed up by business results and facts.  

Working for a fortune 500 company I get the whole due diligence thing but in this situation I think SW could have just come out with the decision and announced they are staying in Cleveland. Partly based on what I mentioned above they have the facts behind them to justify staying in their hometown while also being good corporate stewards by not wasting time and money on a possible risky move that could jeopardize everything.

In short a SW move to another city is an exercise in futility giving them no competitive advantage.
 

Edited September 18, 20195 yr by sfbob
edit

6 minutes ago, WindyBuckeye said:

4-5 20-25 story buildings all over the surface lots please!

 

And so I'll post my Sketchup rendering from a couple pages ago of the 3-5 building proposal again. Let's hope the CEO sees this! ?

2 minutes ago, sfbob said:

This is just my opinion but:

As a long time SW shareholder and from a purely financial perspective saying SW would have a tall order justifying a move out of Cleveland would be a huge understatement. Whether it’s a lateral move to a city like Pittsburgh or a higher profile (insert laugh) city like Dallas neither makes sense to me even considering the financial incentives another city will certainly offer.  In Cleveland, SW is becoming the undisputed leader in their industry, insanely profitable and growing which are clear facts. Why would they want to possibly risk any or all of this with a move?

Could SW be more successful in another city? This is a very large unknown and would be a huge and costly undertaking and could pose massive risks to all of their success which is something every sensible shareholder would have objections with.  The CEO may not give a crap about the deep ties the company has to Cleveland, although he should, and he is only ultimately accountable to the shareholders but in this case the only sensible and sound financial decision would be to stay in Cleveland where their success is safely guaranteed backed up by business results and facts.  

Working for a fortune 500 company I get the whole due diligence thing but in this situation I think SW could have just come out with the decision and announced they are staying in Cleveland. Partly based on what I mentioned above they have the facts behind them to justify staying in their hometown while also being good corporate stewards by not wasting time and money on a possible risky move that could jeopardize everything.
 

 

Excellent argument. Since I'm obviously not a shareholder in anything, how much of a say do shareholders have directly in matters as big as this? From what you argue, it would seem to me that most other shareholders would also be weary of SW making a move out of Cleveland that comes with so many unknowns...

1 hour ago, Larry1962 said:

I think that some of the posts here that people say comes from "reliable sources" are in fact very reliable like those from KJP and some others too!

 

Point being, the statements being quoted--more likely paraphrased--can be interpreted a dozen different ways.  The last 5 pages of commentary prove that (and little else).  Fortune 500 executives are political creatures, so they really aren't able to drop hints one way or the other.  More importantly, I doubt they know all the specifics themselves.

 

Personal note, when I was a temporary/contract worker, we used to dissect everything our superiors would say about the duration and scope of the assignment, so I empathize with our friends at SHW.  But until a specific announcement is made or leaked somehow, there's really not much to go on.

Edited September 18, 20195 yr by PaxtonMarley

"Excellent argument. Since I'm obviously not a shareholder in anything, how much of a say do shareholders have directly in matters as big as this? From what you argue, it would seem to me that most other shareholders would also be weary of SW making a move out of Cleveland that comes with so many unknowns"...

 

Individually it doesn't mean a lot but collectively it means everything....

26 minutes ago, Dougal said:

 

I think I may agree with him.  One supertall would take the city back to the 50s with its one skyscraper that made the 20-25 story buildings look insignificant.  Something in the 30-40story range would be fine with me.

 

I think @KJP was making a puny joke...