October 14, 20195 yr 1 hour ago, E Rocc said: Bedrock could work for R&D, but in the event of an incident I have concerns about it being immediately upwind of Jacobs and Gund during some of the summer months. The smell couldn't be worse than the stank emanating from the court during Cavs games this year!
October 14, 20195 yr Author 1 minute ago, troeros said: @KJP So just to be clear, other bidding states are of out the SW HQ race? Is this correct? They were never in it. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
October 14, 20195 yr 1 minute ago, KJP said: They were never in it. It was a ploy to maximize incentives. But you can't blame local and state government for providing them
October 14, 20195 yr 4 minutes ago, KJP said: They were never in it. Interesting, because I could've sworn your previous report (or maybe some other journalist reported?) Stated that SW was also looking at sites out of state as well?
October 14, 20195 yr Author 5 minutes ago, freefourur said: It was a ploy to maximize incentives. But you can't blame local and state government for providing them If I had heard about Morikis' new house in Bay Village six months ago, I wonder if the local/state politicians would have called SHW's bluff? 1 minute ago, troeros said: Interesting, because I could've sworn your previous report (or maybe some other journalist reported?) Stated that SW was also looking at sites out of state as well? It was in SHW's September 12 announcement. As @freefourur noted, it was a ploy. Edited October 14, 20195 yr by KJP "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
October 14, 20195 yr 1 hour ago, KJP said: My blog blew past 4,000 views of this story in the past hour. Now they want my balding, flu-infested mug on WKYC tonight. Let us know if you are going on channel 3 tonite - so that we can watch it.
October 14, 20195 yr 5 minutes ago, troeros said: Interesting, because I could've sworn your previous report (or maybe some other journalist reported?) Stated that SW was also looking at sites out of state as well? The looking at other states was one of the most obvious smokescreens out there. I think KJP effectively threw cold water on that weeks ago
October 14, 20195 yr Author Just now, simplythis said: Let us know if you are going on channel 3 tonite - so that we can watch it. They said it would air at 11 pm. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
October 14, 20195 yr 1 hour ago, Sapper Daddy said: WKYC oughta put you on their payroll at this point. Or Crains
October 14, 20195 yr 6 minutes ago, KJP said: If I had heard about Morikis' new house in Bay Village six months ago, I wonder if the local/state politicians would have called SHW's bluff? It was in SHW's September 12 announcement. As @freefourur noted, it was a ploy. I doubt that they would've called the bluff. No one wants to be blamed for losing SW.
October 14, 20195 yr 1 minute ago, KJP said: They said it would air at 11 pm. Thank You - I am looking forward to it.
October 14, 20195 yr 1 minute ago, simplythis said: Thank You - I am looking forward to it. I wish i were in CLE to see it. Your blog is my connection to the area
October 14, 20195 yr Well for $135 million, 34 stories on PHS tower is pretty inexpensive, but I imagine cost goes up per floor-plate above. For a 34 story tower that's astoundingly cheap. I'm sure SW will have no problem building over 40 considering the marketability of cheap high-rise construction. If they build over 40 we're probably looking at $250 million, and if it's a $billion project you've got plenty more for campus style development, including multiple other high-rises. If we include campus style buildings, I look towards CSU's 100,000 sq ft. Washkewicz Engineering building which was done ahead of schedule at $60 million, including new tech and furnishing. There's plenty of financial leeway here, and plenty of money for some great development.
October 14, 20195 yr Author 18 minutes ago, tastybunns said: Well for $135 million, 34 stories on PHS tower is pretty inexpensive, but I imagine cost goes up per floor-plate above. For a 34 story tower that's astoundingly cheap. I'm sure SW will have no problem building over 40 considering the marketability of cheap high-rise construction. If they build over 40 we're probably looking at $250 million, and if it's a $billion project you've got plenty more for campus style development, including multiple other high-rises. If we include campus style buildings, I look towards CSU's 100,000 sq ft. Washkewicz Engineering building which was done ahead of schedule at $60 million, including new tech and furnishing. There's plenty of financial leeway here, and plenty of money for some great development. Office/commercial construction is more expensive than residential -- about double the price. SHW's HQ+R&D is going to cost roughly $550 per square foot. Lumen is costing only $225 per square foot. 17 minutes ago, freefourur said: past my bedtime... They may put it on the interwebs. Edited October 14, 20195 yr by KJP "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
October 14, 20195 yr Author @freefourur apparently it will be on earlier..... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
October 14, 20195 yr 53 minutes ago, KJP said: That's the $1 billion question. But it's not just the Jacobs lot. It's also the Weston lots. Weston's now-dead proposal for its properties had 3 million square feet of development on them, and the tallest building they proposed was 37 stories. The 6,000 jobs is confirmed. That's the figure I've been told from several sources is what the HQ+R&D would be designed to accommodate. So subtract the 3,300 existing jobs downtown. And subtract up to 1,100 existing SHW office and research jobs in NE Ohio. Some of the research jobs will not move to the new R&D facilities -- especially those at SHW Automotive in Warrensville Hts. That leaves 1,600 jobs which is likely comprised of a few hundred jobs in R&D at the Valspar division in Minneapolis, as well as new jobs which are expected to materialize in the coming years. Consider that 1.8 million square feet divided by 6,000 employees is 300 square feet per employee. That's a lot -- except when taking the R&D into consideration. SHW has 320 workers at Breen which measures 140,000 sf. That's 438 sf per R&D employee -- and the Breen employees are complaining about a lack of space. So the R&D space requirements are bumping up the sf/employee numbers. Subtract those out to get about 5,300 HQ employees in about 1.4 million sf and the ratio drops to 264 sf / employee. Still high, but not if there's some on-site retail/restaurants, a training center, workout rooms, etc. @KJP Do you know if the headquarters leave room to grow? It would be surprising for them to build a headquarters that didn’t at least provide room for growth of 500-1k employees. Or maybe with the campus mindset and depending on the site they are thinking they can always add buildings to it?
October 14, 20195 yr Author @cle_guy90 SHW has about 1.1 million square feet of office space in NE Ohio and 140,000 SF in Breen (which is cramped). There's 170,000 SF in Valspar's R&D in Minneapolis. That means there's up to 400,000 SF of office space that SHW may not need right now. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
October 14, 20195 yr 3 hours ago, KJP said: My blog blew past 4,000 views of this story in the past hour. Now they want my balding, flu-infested mug on WKYC tonight. 1 hour ago, KJP said: They may put it on the interwebs. Well put your sunglasses on urbanohio! https://www.wkyc.com/article/news/local/cleveland/sherwin-williams-rumored-to-stay-in-cleveland/95-c8c6d62b-fb8b-478a-aa7e-829d607142d4
October 14, 20195 yr Now knowing how much SHW favors the PS/Weston location, I can’t imagine County/City leaders holding their ground with wanting that location as well, that’s just playing with fire. I’d say it’s safe to say that’s where it’s going. I think a perfect spot for a new justice tower would be at the corner of East 9th and Carnegie on those empty lots. With the Geis tower filling out that strip. All of East 9th would be pretty impressive.
October 14, 20195 yr 10 hours ago, Sapper Daddy said: This is great news. And for my official wish list I’m hoping for a hotel component. Something unique similar to what was proposed in the 54 story version of nuCLEus. I 100% agree
October 15, 20195 yr Author 1 hour ago, kevincle said: Well put your sunglasses on urbanohio! https://www.wkyc.com/article/news/local/cleveland/sherwin-williams-rumored-to-stay-in-cleveland/95-c8c6d62b-fb8b-478a-aa7e-829d607142d4 Transitional lenses! ? Edited October 15, 20195 yr by KJP "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
October 15, 20195 yr 27 minutes ago, freefourur said: this board's meme game is on point As a legacy member, I can confidently say, on this forum, the gifs/meme's and shade are always strong and on point!
October 15, 20195 yr wow the real story here is that the city actually po’d sw over jacobs/weston site because ... they wanted the new justice center there? there of all places?? on the prime public sq jacobs/weston properties??? oh good lord that is giving me a flashback of mike white pissing off progressive because their tower/site didn’t please him ... and look what happened. i can’t believe city hall would aggravate sw with this big decision going on for literally the dumbest reason on earth. yikes.
October 15, 20195 yr I sure hope SW picks the Public Square location. Not only does it complete the square it would also help integrate the the Warehouse district (as well as the Flats east bank) with the rest of downtown into a cohesive whole. Right now its pretty isolated and requires an ugly walk thru surface lots. That link is an essential piece of the puzzle.
October 15, 20195 yr 7 hours ago, marty15 said: Now knowing how much SHW favors the PS/Weston location, I can’t imagine County/City leaders holding their ground with wanting that location as well, that’s just playing with fire. I’d say it’s safe to say that’s where it’s going. I think a perfect spot for a new justice tower would be at the corner of East 9th and Carnegie on those empty lots. With the Geis tower filling out that strip. All of East 9th would be pretty impressive. Good location BUT it maybe a bit too far from most of the law firms that use the Justice Center daily.
October 15, 20195 yr Just read KJP's article and I want to echo the sentiment that if the Jacobs/Weston lots are used for a crappy new Justice Center then I'm moving.
October 15, 20195 yr Author 7 hours ago, mrnyc said: wow the real story here is that the city actually po’d sw over jacobs/weston site because ... they wanted the new justice center there? there of all places?? on the prime public sq jacobs/weston properties??? oh good lord that is giving me a flashback of mike white pissing off progressive because their tower/site didn’t please him ... and look what happened. i can’t believe city hall would aggravate sw with this big decision going on for literally the dumbest reason on earth. yikes. Bingo "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
October 15, 20195 yr 26 minutes ago, mu2010 said: Just read KJP's article and I want to echo the sentiment that if the Jacobs/Weston lots are used for a crappy new Justice Center then I'm moving. Will be book marking this post.
October 15, 20195 yr 4 hours ago, Larry1962 said: Good location BUT it maybe a bit too far from most of the law firms that use the Justice Center daily. Agreed....but AT THIS POINT what has any of this to do with the SHERWIN WILLIAMS HQ?
October 15, 20195 yr 14 hours ago, KJP said: @freefourur apparently it will be on earlier..... Hell you even got cited in the borderlands. I tagged you.
October 15, 20195 yr KJP ... as to the design of the main tower, do they just have an architect hired — and if so, who? You made a comment a while back about how sources said it will be new architecture to Cleveland, so that makes me think they do have a firm hired.
October 15, 20195 yr Author 11 minutes ago, inlovewithCLE said: Who smoothed things over? The fine attorneys at Korman Jackson & Krantz. 9 minutes ago, Paul in Cleveland said: KJP ... as to the design of the main tower, do they just have an architect hired — and if so, who? You made a comment a while back about how sources said it will be new architecture to Cleveland, so that makes me think they do have a firm hired. Welty was working with Vocon to develop concepts for alternative sites, all of them downtown. It now appears that Vocon may be focusing on internal design with another architect working on the exterior design. That's how Welty and Gilbane did it with the Goodyear HQ, using Vocon for the interiors and Gensler for the exterior. And SHW, especially CEO Morikis, seems to really like how the Goodyear HQ turned out. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
October 15, 20195 yr 8 minutes ago, KJP said: The fine attorneys at Korman Jackson & Krantz. Welty was working with Vocon to develop concepts for alternative sites, all of them downtown. It now appears that Vocon may be focusing on internal design with another architect working on the exterior design. That's how Welty and Gilbane did it with the Goodyear HQ, using Vocon for the interiors and Gensler for the exterior. And SHW, especially CEO Morikis, seems to really like how the Goodyear HQ turned out. That sounds about right. For a "design with no equal in Cleveland" you'd assume their going to hire a StArchitect to design the exterior.
October 15, 20195 yr Author 7 minutes ago, freefourur said: WTF was the county/city thinking? Not sure. I had a dream last night that I got am angry phone call from CEO John Morikis, complaining that lead paint protesters were gathering outside his front gate in Bay Village and he was pissed at me for revealing his new home address. "I'm going back to Brecksville and I'm taking my company with me! How do you like that?!?" he yelled over the phone. Sh!t woke me up.... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
October 15, 20195 yr The largest(?) employer in your city is considering a prime location for its world headquarters and you tell them "we need to build our jail there." That is next level stupid.
October 15, 20195 yr Author 3 minutes ago, freefourur said: The largest(?) employer in your city is considering a prime location for its world headquarters and you tell them "we need to build our jail there." That is next level stupid. Courthouse Tower, but yes, next-level stupid. Neither the courthouse tower or the law firms that want the courthouse built within a few blocks of Public Square are at any risk of leaving Cleveland. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
October 15, 20195 yr 40 story - 617ft / 1144 Fifteenth Tower from Denver rendered into Cleveland skyline to get an idea for scale. (~673k sq ft)
October 15, 20195 yr 11 minutes ago, freefourur said: The largest(?) employer in your city is considering a prime location for its world headquarters and you tell them "we need to build our jail there." That is next level stupid. Cleveland Clinic is the largest employer in the city but your point remains the same. It’s at times embarrassing who we as Clevelanders have representing us in government. Not all government officials, but many, and just incredible ineptitude at the highest levels.
October 15, 20195 yr ^ I doubt that it was the Economic Development folks that botched that up. They no better. This was likely the Court of Common Pleas and of Muni Court people. There's plenty of vacant land for the Justice Center.
October 15, 20195 yr Okay, so I am a little confused with some of the latest banter on here. Is the next potential Justice Center holding up a decision as to where the SW HQ will be going , or does SW have a green light to pick where it wants to go?
October 15, 20195 yr 12 minutes ago, cfdwarrior said: Okay, so I am a little confused with some of the latest banter on here. Is the next potential Justice Center holding up a decision as to where the SW HQ will be going , or does SW have a green light to pick where it wants to go? Seconding this question - assuming the answer is yes, who do we need to call / write letters to to get public officials out of the way?
October 15, 20195 yr 11 minutes ago, cfdwarrior said: Okay, so I am a little confused with some of the latest banter on here. Is the next potential Justice Center holding up a decision as to where the SW HQ will be going , or does SW have a green light to pick where it wants to go? From what I understand, while they were doing the initial search and pegged the Jacobs/Weston Lots, the city had plans for it which angered SHW and through a roadblock in their search. SHW flexed their power (rightfully so) and now they have the green light because the city stepped aside, also rightfully so. Imagine losing SHW downtown because you wanted to build a prison LMAO.
October 15, 20195 yr 22 hours ago, Dougal said: Would the Bedrock site mean tearing down the old B&O Station? Hopefully if this site got that far, they could figure out how to repurpose the station and incorporate in to the new development, much as they do everywhere in Western Europe....
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