1 minute ago, KJP said:

I'm down here now. They are drilling their 3rd location in the Weston lots, working on both sides of Frankfort.

i think we will have a new blog by monday.

...Or, SW could be seeking the PS lot and both Weston lots for its "urban campus."

 

If that's the case, the new JC could be built right next to Stokes CH.

Edited November 2, 20195 yr by Frmr CLEder

3 minutes ago, KJP said:

I'm down here now. There are two separate firms down here, drilling multiple locations in the Weston lots, working on both sides of Frankfort, from West 3rd to West 6th.

 

Photos coming. 
 

I had a feeling if you were available you’d be reporting back from the scene ?

23 minutes ago, Frmr CLEder said:

...Or, SW could be seeking the PS lot and both Weston lots for its "urban campus."

 

If that's the case, the new JC could be built right next to Stokes CH.

I wouldn't mind JC next to Stokes CH

Just now, simplythis said:

I wouldn't mind JC next to Stokes CH

 

IMO there are only two good sites for it:  Weston or Public Square.   They need to stay close to the infrastructure of attorney's offices, bail bondsmen, etc.  

The two sites are within two blocks of one another; across Superior and Huron.

Edited November 2, 20195 yr by Frmr CLEder

I had a source with some very interesting information a few days ago, but I wasn't prepared to fully embrace it since it was second-hand. But I should have considering the quality of the people who passed it along. Today's developments seem to confirm it somewhat.

3 minutes ago, KJP said:

I had a source with some very interesting information a few days ago, but I wasn't prepared to fully embrace it since it was second-hand. But I should have considering the quality of the people who passed it along. Today's developments seem to confirm it somewhat.

So when do the rest of us find out?

1 minute ago, simplythis said:

So when do the rest of us find out?

 

Soon. At least I don't have a paywall. ?

2 hours ago, KJP said:

 

Soon. At least I don't have a paywall. ?

In checking around, today's activity doesn't confirm anything, but it is very interesting.

There've been references to relocation to other cities and limited air service, but as a Gamma + city, Cleveland ranks higher in global connectedness than Austin, Baltimore, Charlotte, Phoenix, San Diego, San Jose, St. Louis, Tampa (Gamma cities), Milwaukee, Nashville, Orlando, Sacramento and San Antonio (Gamma - cities).

 

According to GaWC, only New York (Alpha +) Chicago, Los Angeles, Miami (Alpha), Houston, San Francisco, Washington D.C. (Alpha -), Atlanta, Boston, Dallas (Beta +), Denver, Minneapolis, Philadelphia (Beta) and Seattle (Beta -) ranked higher.  That's great for a city of its size, is an indicator of the region's significance globally and may have been another contributor in SW decision to stay put. 

 

As an fyi, Cincinnati, Columbus, Indianapolis, Memphis, New Orleans and Pittsburgh are only ranked as "Sufficiency Cities," meaning they have sufficient services so as not to be dependent upon world cities, but are not considered a world city in and of themselves, like Cleveland is.

Edited November 3, 20195 yr by Frmr CLEder

 

SUNDAY, NOVEMBER 3, 2019

Sherwin-Williams' drills down on data for HQ sites

 

Identifying where Sherwin-Williams' (SHW) massive headquarters plus research and development (HQ+R&D) facilities might land requires lots of information. And the global coatings giant gathered a lot more detail this weekend.

Survey crews on Nov. 2 fanned out across 5.6 acres of parking lots owned by the Weston Group, a couple of blocks west of downtown Cleveland's Public Square.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2019/11/sherwin-williams-drills-down-on-data.html

Great work, Ken!

14 hours ago, KJP said:

 

Soon. At least I don't have a paywall. ?

 

Another GREAT ARTICLE KEN!!

And considering the hard research work you do for your blog articles, hopefully YOU ARE GETTING SOME EXTRA INCOME FROM THE ADVERTISING on your website!

KJP, you know this is music to my ears....

 

"A source close to the HQ property negotiations says that "the Weston lot excites them (SHW) as an opportunity to make a revolutionary sort of campus."

So with the added square footage, does this imply Valspar employees are relocating to Cleveland? I hope it's not going to be so spread out we won't have height in the massing. I just don't want a suburban campus downtown of coarse. 

 

edit. (all Valspar employees) 

Edited November 3, 20195 yr by Mildtraumatic

Always exciting to see a new Neotrans article - thanks KJP!  Would the original Weston Superblock renderings be similar to the scope, size and look of the new SHW campus? I forget how many square feet of office and residential were in that huge project. 

Edited November 3, 20195 yr by CleveFan

1 hour ago, Frmr CLEder said:

KJP, you know this is music to my ears....

 

"A source close to the HQ property negotiations says that "the Weston lot excites them (SHW) as an opportunity to make a revolutionary sort of campus."

So does a campus layout mean shorter buildings?

2 minutes ago, CleveFan said:

Always exciting to see a new Neotrans article - thanks KJP!  Would the original Weston Superblock renderings be similar to the scope and size and look of the new SHW campus? I forget how square feet of office and residential were in that huge project. 

 

Thanks @CleveFan. Click on the Superblock plan graphic. It gives the breakdown on square footage for uses, areas and the total -- 3.5 million square feet. If 1.8 million sf (not including parking) of SHW locates here, it will be roughly half as dense because another 1.17 acres will be part of it. In fact, don't expect an HQ tower on Public Square exceeding 30 stories.

8 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

Thanks @CleveFan. Click on the Superblock plan graphic. It gives the breakdown on square footage for uses, areas and the total -- 3.5 million square feet. If 1.8 million sf (not including parking) of SHW locates here, it will be roughly half as dense because another 1.17 acres will be part of it. In fact, don't expect an HQ tower on Public Square exceeding 30 stories.

So if you want height, the Bedrock site is the better choice for the headquarters?

8 minutes ago, Mildtraumatic said:

So if you want height, the Bedrock site is the better choice for the headquarters?

 

Not necessarily. The total land area is larger and SHW doesn't need to add as much new parking.

Based upon previous intel, Morikis seems to be fascinated with a campus-like environment, similar to Goodyear's.  That being said, one could envision a campus, built around a central park-like quad for HQ, R&D (possibly resulting in the closure of Frankfort), similar to Breen's riverfront, immaculately-maintained grounds.

 

Also, given SW's low-key demeanor, despite not having the tallest tower on PS visually, they would undeniably dominate the CBD with their urban campus and uniquely designed HQ.  Without overtly displaying their stature, their presence, at street level, would make it clear that they're one of the "big dogs."

 

As I'm typing this message, I'm watching a SW 18-wheeler, in all of its SW regalia, getting onto I-395 towards I-95.

Edited November 3, 20195 yr by Frmr CLEder

For the super block option, do we know if SW is opposed to any type of mix-use such as what Weston had planned (obviously with an increase in the office sq)?

 

7 minutes ago, viscomi said:

For the super block option, do we know if SW is opposed to any type of mix-use such as what Weston had planned (obviously with an increase in the office sq)?

 

 

Unknown. 

 

Here's a very interesting piece from Crain's Stan Bullard this morning....

 

Sherwin-Williams headquarters search ignites downtown property derby

https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate/sherwin-williams-headquarters-search-ignites-downtown-property-derby

Still drilling this morning 

Flash a couple of $20s at them and see what they're willing to say!

4 minutes ago, KJP said:

Flash a couple of $20s at them and see what they're willing to say!

I'll set up the gofundme lol

A well-written, informative article and a great read.

 

Now who has the live stream for the Weston lots drilling crew?

22 minutes ago, mack34 said:

Still drilling this morning 

I think they're just trolling, UO.

36 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

Unknown. 

 

Here's a very interesting piece from Crain's Stan Bullard this morning....

 

Sherwin-Williams headquarters search ignites downtown property derby

https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate/sherwin-williams-headquarters-search-ignites-downtown-property-derby

In the past couple of weeks Stan's reporting on this project has become 100% better. 

7 minutes ago, Htsguy said:

In the past couple of weeks Stan's reporting on this project has become 100% better. 

 

Having actual sources connected to the headquarters search and getting quotes from them is arguably 1000% better than spewing Boyd's air service quote ad nauseam.

It's nice to see Stan getting quotes that reiterate what @KJP has been ahead of for weeks - outside cities and regions are not at play. Though interestingly this article still seems to show Valor Acres at play and mentions the lakefront and riverfront sites without mention of Public Square. Given the amount of conflicting information Ken gets at times, it is not surprising having multiple sources helps to paint a more accurate, nuanced picture that is subject to change as the situation evolves.

7 minutes ago, infrafreak said:

 

Having actual sources connected to the headquarters search and getting quotes from them is arguably 1000% better than spewing Boyd's air service quote ad nauseam.

It's nice to see Stan getting quotes that reiterate what @KJP has been ahead of for weeks - outside cities and regions are not at play. Though interestingly this article still seems to show Valor Acres at play and mentions the lakefront and riverfront sites without mention of Public Square. Given the amount of conflicting information Ken gets at times, it is not surprising having multiple sources helps to paint a more accurate, nuanced picture that is subject to change as the situation evolves.

In addition to the better and more relevant sourcing his analysis is much better and he is doing a nicer job of putting the information he has in context.  It just more complete reporting including a few bits that might not make us happy (but again put into context better so it does not seem like he is just blurting out negatives).

1 hour ago, GISguy said:

I'll set up the gofundme lol

 

4 hours ago, Mildtraumatic said:

So if you want height, the Bedrock site is the better choice for the headquarters?

The tallest building being 30 stories or less makes a Justice Center tower on PS sound more and more appealing. Seems like a monumental waste of a historic space - if true

5 hours ago, KJP said:

 

Thanks @CleveFan. Click on the Superblock plan graphic. It gives the breakdown on square footage for uses, areas and the total -- 3.5 million square feet. If 1.8 million sf (not including parking) of SHW locates here, it will be roughly half as dense because another 1.17 acres will be part of it. In fact, don't expect an HQ tower on Public Square exceeding 30 stories.

 

I'm leaning more and more to hoping they go on the riverfront site.  No PS tower + campus style development in the middle of Downtown isn't super exciting to me, from a design/urban liveliness perspective.  Unless of course, they are willing to have ground floor retail on the outward facing facades of their campus.

 

Campus style development along the riverfront could be quite nice however, as long as they are willing to retain a public walk along the riverfront itself.

1 minute ago, X said:

 

I'm leaning more and more to hoping they go on the riverfront site.  No PS tower + campus style development in the middle of Downtown isn't super exciting to me, from a design/urban liveliness perspective.  Unless of course, they are willing to have ground floor retail on the outward facing facades of their campus.

 

Campus style development along the riverfront could be quite nice however, as long as they are willing to retain a public walk along the riverfront itself.

I agree, but still the thought of 6000 people on Public Square as opposed the the river front is so very appealing.  Helps warehouse district restaraunts, East 4th and Euclid.  Riverfront keeps those workers more contained by Tower City.  

31 minutes ago, X said:

 

I'm leaning more and more to hoping they go on the riverfront site.  No PS tower + campus style development in the middle of Downtown isn't super exciting to me, from a design/urban liveliness perspective.  Unless of course, they are willing to have ground floor retail on the outward facing facades of their campus.

 

Campus style development along the riverfront could be quite nice however, as long as they are willing to retain a public walk along the riverfront itself.

 

Also, if a hotel or residential component are built with the project its a win-win. 

 

Although, I hate seeing the hole on PS, I think that space should be used for a hotel tower of 40+ stories or a Crown Jewel company.

 

Building on the Riverfront connects Tower City, Gateway/East 4th and the Warehouse District.  This space would be used during the daytime for workers and at night for residents.  Overlaying are tourists.

31 minutes ago, mack34 said:

I agree, but still the thought of 6000 people on Public Square as opposed the the river front is so very appealing.  Helps warehouse district restaraunts, East 4th and Euclid.  Riverfront keeps those workers more contained by Tower City.  

I disagree.  When I worked at SOHIO, I ate lunch in all directions and we had a bomb ass cafeteria.  I would eat as far as East or West Ninth.  After work I would meet friends for drinks or dinner at various places.

So you're agreeing with me....thats what I said.  PS workers have more access to Downtown. 

When I think of campus setting, I don't think of mixed use especially in regards to residential. They want their own space. I've been hoping for decades for a skyline changer on the PS lot and the warehouse district wouldn't be a good fit for a corporate office campus for obvious reasons. The riverfront location I feel is the best choice, plus it would turn Huron rd into something better than it is now. 

Edited November 3, 20195 yr by Mildtraumatic

3 minutes ago, mack34 said:

So you're agreeing with me....thats what I said.  PS workers have more access to Downtown. 

Oh Laaaawd.  Why did I write "disagree"?  I need a nap!

 

 

Damn time change!!! everyone is exhausted!!

6 minutes ago, Mildtraumatic said:

When I think of campus setting, I don't think of mixed use especially in regards to residential. They want their own space. I've been hoping for decades for a skyline changer on the PS lot and the warehouse district wouldn't be a good fit for a corporate office campus for obvious reasons. The riverfront location I feel is the best choice, plus it would turn Huron rd into something better than it is now. 

In this instance, I don't think of it as a "suburban style" campus setting.  I think of it as an urban "corporate campus".

 

Might I suggest for this project we use "corporate campus"?  When I think of Corporate Campus I think of the following:

AT&T office in Downtown Dallas

former Enron office in Downtown Houston

The original WFC (AMEX)

Time Warner Center

 

A corporate campus, consisting of corporate offices, residential, hospitality and retail can become a reality in downtown Cleveland either on the Warehouse Dist space or against the river.  A WHD location creates new spaces across from/adjacent to the West and North of TC.  A river location connects to the already extensive TC

 

2 hours ago, X said:

 

I'm leaning more and more to hoping they go on the riverfront site.  No PS tower + campus style development in the middle of Downtown isn't super exciting to me, from a design/urban liveliness perspective.  Unless of course, they are willing to have ground floor retail on the outward facing facades of their campus.

 

Campus style development along the riverfront could be quite nice however, as long as they are willing to retain a public walk along the riverfront itself.

We’d all like to see the parking lots off PS disappear, but I have to agree. A “campus” with lower rise buildings and the tallest tower 30 stories or less sounds better suited to the riverfront. I know we’ve waited a long time for that west side of the square to be built upon but Public Square will always be there. That parcel needs an iconic tower with a more urban neighborhood at Weston.  The new Justice Center Tower could be part of that scenario depending on how it fits into the big picture and its ultimate height and design.  

If the the Jacobs lot gets something built on it that is not an iconic part of the skyline, that’s really a shame. I don’t think there is any other parcel downtown I would make such a statement about as I am generally for incremental change and believe the perfect is the enemy of the good. But that’s just such a visible and valuable piece of property. This is a happening-enough town that I am confident something really cool can be built there. If SHW builds a blasé 20-story building on the lot, I don’t think it is unreasonable to be disappointed.

There are a lot of unknowns. If SW just is thinking a Goodyear HQ i would agree they should stay at the river. If they want to do something transformative and have an urban campus with likely a hotel and maybe a showcase sherwin williams store and other shops perhaps creating another type of arcade downtown that would be ok with me. 

Riverfront, PS and/or Weston, the elephant in the room is what will happen to their current offices?  That's a lot of space that will be vacated.

Edited November 3, 20195 yr by Frmr CLEder

4 minutes ago, Frmr CLEder said:

Riverfront, PS and/or Weston, the elephant in the room is what will happen to their current offices?

I feel that’ll take care of itself. Great location, great views, built in parking, built in mass transit.... It’d make a perfect residential/hotel conversion.

Edited November 3, 20195 yr by marty15

What other company would be capable of building a transformative Key Tower equivalent? I'm most likely wrong, but i don't see any NEO companies that are capable for a looong time.

 

I know this is the shw thread but idk I'm cool with a campus that's OPEN and not closed off. Taller isn't always better, the denser downtown feels, the better.