I'm not getting my hopes up that they'll be building a super modern glass tower that most of us are wishing for. Especially considering it's been mentioned that they like the Goodyear HQ design over Eatons. 

A great and fun day on UO. ( A special thanks to KJP For the great journalistic work.)  I understand it’s not quite time for the party until “shovels in the ground” but I just had to say Congrats to the CLE. I’m one of the city’s life-long  fans (keyword) that probably gets too excited at each  new rumor  about this massive project - but that may come partly  from growing up in Cleveland and experiencing some of the tough years when the city was the butt of jokes nationally - (yeah, I’m that old!) 

It’s been inspiring to see the rebirth  of the downtown and other neighborhoods of the city in recent years. I agree with those that see this as a true game changer for the city. Not just the vital numbers on actual jobs preserved and added by SW’s decision - but the optics, if you will, as a mighty new HQ begins to rise. It’ll be fun to opine and debate the design- but I’m sure we all agree that had SW left the city - it would’ve been a critical blow.  Now, instead, the Renaissance of Cleveland continues with even more energy. 

This is an incredible win for the city and region, and I think most folks on this forum have the perspective to agree that is point number one.

 

From a design perspective, I will wager most on this thread have stood in Public Square, looked northeast, and pictures a 1200’ tower. I know I have. That dream dies hard. So if the Jacobs lot ends up with an 11-story, 175’ building on it, a lot of people will still look at the site and picture the Ameritrust Tower. Maybe that’s just a part of Cleveland. We’re fixated on our past failures but also on our past and current successes.

11 hours ago, JSC216 said:

Outside of the building itself how transformative is this thing expected to be? Seems to be a lot of people thinking this will drive a ton of other development and boost all sorts of activity downtown. While I’m excited I think we should lower our expectations slightly. This isn’t a complete relocation, although we will be getting some new jobs. Key Tower was a massive project. It did not cause any significant spinoff and the area surrounding it is still pretty devoid of life or any street activity. No good retail/food options. My concern about the ground floor is very real when looking at newer developments elsewhere, and Cleveland’s struggling retail and rents makes things worse. Looking at Landmark and Breen it does not appear ground level activity is a huge concern of theirs, but hopefully that changes. This is extremely good news that SHW is staying, plus adding job, and I’m just as excited as everyone else. I just think we should keep expectations in check unlike we all did with Stark and others. Even Flats East has had way less of an impact than I had hoped for Old River road. Looking forward to seeing the first renderings. Hoping they keep Frankfort. 

 

KJP and all the other experts:

 

Looking at the BIG PICTURE how transformative is this project expected to be? 

And whats your BEST GUESS as to how many buildings and in what configuration of retailers, apartments, ect that you think MAYBE included in the NEW SHW CAMPUS? 

Do you think they will vacate Frankfort Avenue that bisects the Weston Lots? 

And what types of other developments MAYBE built in that area over the next 5-10 years?

 

An Interesting example:

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/real-estate/2018/05/20/see-what-att-plans-for-its-100-million-downtown-dallas-discovery-district/

 

THANKS for any more additional insights that you can provide!!

Edited November 7, 20195 yr by Larry1962
Added ATT HQ IN DALLAS as example

I don't know if I qualify as an expert except maybe at finding stuff. It doesn't mean I know anything about real estate. Sure it's transformative. Not only does it mean 2,000+ new jobs for downtown, but think about it in terms of how it affects people's psyche. As much as a major HQ leaving town hurts us emotionally, so does keeping one and adding to it. Production comes from attitude, skill and effort. Without a positive attitude, the other two conditions are less relevant.

 

So I learned something more today -- that SHW has had a contract to buy the Weston lots for months. While that doesn't guarantee that SHW would see that contract through to a sale and deed transfer, it does mean that SHW didn't want anyone else to have a shot at buying some or all of the Weston lots while SHW did its due diligence in the HQ+R&D search. If they found a better site, they could walk away from the contract and Weston would be free to negotiate with any other potential buyers. I don't know if SHW had a similar deal pending with the Jacobs Group for its Public Square property, but it probably did. So there's that.

 

Cheers folks. I'm out of town for a few days but I'll check the forum when I can.

So they planned all along to locate at the WESTON and JACOBS LOTS provided their due diligence didn't come up with any large negatives!

 

Thanks again!

 

May the FORCE be with YOU in your travels!

LOL

 

Edited November 7, 20195 yr by Larry1962
Typos

some of these "urban Campuses" are no where near the urban core.  JP Morgan isn't even in Dallas.

 

As I said up thread, can we call the SWHQ and "corporate campus"?

 

The images of what @mrnyc are not - IN MY OPINION - designs that are "world class",  (You kids love that phrase)  Iconic or internationally renown.  The RC HQ looks like a ship. 

 

These are office parks that we can see anywhere.  Regardless, of location, I am hoping SW builds a functioning HQ that will mesh with nearby buildings/neighborhoods and strengthen & diversify downtown on more than one level.

 

 

NEO-Trans name dropped on NPR this morning. @KJP is going viral! That's how the internet works, right?

 

 

 

 

 

7 hours ago, Larry1962 said:

So they planned all along to locate at the WESTON and JACOBS LOTS provided their due diligence didn't come up with any large negatives!

 

Thanks again!

 

May the FORCE be with YOU in your travels!

LOL

 

So considering that SW planned for Weston/Jacobs all along despite their press releases to include out of state locals could mean that any info about what kind of buildings go up could mean anything. 

It means only that it is one of their high-priority options. They may have had other sites under contract. For this information to be truly compelling, it would have to be learned how many other sites, if any, SHW had under contract too.

Any one else notice that there hasn't been a peep out of the local news regarding KJP's SHW revelations... it's been two days now!! 

 

 

 

 

Does anyone have any information on what would happen to the massive space SW currently occupies when this move happens?

19 minutes ago, Oldmanladyluck said:

Any one else notice that there hasn't been a peep out of the local news regarding KJP's SHW revelations... it's been two days now!! 

 

 

 

 

Believe it or not, there was some reporting from Ideastream this morning that the PS/Weston-Citymark location had been selected. Otherwise, crickets.

^^Though the easiest presumption to make is the space would be converted to apartments, with the cost of construction limiting new office buildings here I wouldn't be surprised if whoever the new new owner is actually renovates at least part of the building as offices.  I believe the building is 900,000 sqft.   

Edited November 7, 20195 yr by Oldmanladyluck

1 hour ago, Oldmanladyluck said:

Any one else notice that there hasn't been a peep out of the local news regarding KJP's SHW revelations... it's been two days now!! 

 

 

 

 

Actually TV 3 had a segment on SHW and NEOtrans blog article.

On 11/6/2019 at 8:31 AM, JSC216 said:

What are some examples of urban office campuses? 

 

On 11/6/2019 at 9:45 AM, Mildtraumatic said:

I guess we can throw up some examples of "downtown"-urban-corporate-campuses while we wait for the next news to come out from our phenomenal local blogger! With pictures of coarse. 

 

Already done a few pages back:

https://forum.urbanohio.com/topic/5088-cleveland-sherwin-williams-new-headquarters/?do=findComment&comment=923606

40 minutes ago, yanni_gogolak said:

 

 

Already done a few pages back:

https://forum.urbanohio.com/topic/5088-cleveland-sherwin-williams-new-headquarters/?do=findComment&comment=923606

Yes, I saw those but don't consider them downtown campuses and if you look at them close, aren't in downtown of their cities. 

Centene Clayton would fit.

Edited November 7, 20195 yr by Mildtraumatic

So I think I have found the happy medium of "corporate campus" and urban high-rise.  The Tencent Headquarters in China.  

 

Here is a quick description I found of their Corporate Campus:  "The traditional model for corporate design places companies in a singular high-rise or in multiple low-rise buildings. The design of the Tencent Seafront Towers merges the concepts by bringing the best of both together. Dubbed the Synergy Tower, the building provides the value associated with high-rises in urban locations with the connectivity of a low-rise campus."

 

The video in this link gives a great look at and overview of the Corporate Headquarters. The video is Must See:  http://www.nbbj.com/work/tencent/

 

The materials and look can be adjusted as needed for the desired appearance, but I believe the overall concept/design is much better than a bunch of low or maybe mid-rise buildings. Those belong in a suburban location.  Plus I love the Green-Space that Tencent has on the top of each connecting bridge. Very well done and providing great views for your employees.

 

 

Edited November 7, 20195 yr by NR

It sure will be nice to get rid of all those surface parking lots.  They look like a missing front tooth and are a huge embarrassment.  I sure hope SW goes with a tall tower on the Jacobs site, at least taller than Terminal Tower.  This is probably the last opportunity for any really large development downtown.  It would make a bold statement and greatly enhance the Cleveland skyline.    

2 hours ago, Oldmanladyluck said:

Any one else notice that there hasn't been a peep out of the local news regarding KJP's SHW revelations... it's been two days now!! 

 

 

 

 

WEWS website has an article today.

5 hours ago, math said:

NEO-Trans name dropped on NPR this morning. @KJP is going viral! That's how the internet works, right?

 

Actually, this is how the internet works now:

 

"THIS major corporation went looking for a new corporate headquarters, but the one they chose will BLOW YOUR MIND"

 

"Stop trying to relocate your corporation to Atlanta, move here instead"

 

"11 Insane reasons that Public Square is the best spot for a corporate campus"

 

"53 NSFW historic photos of the Weston lots- #17 will SHOCK you"

3 hours ago, Oldmanladyluck said:

Any one else notice that there hasn't been a peep out of the local news regarding KJP's SHW revelations... it's been two days now!! 

 

 

 

 

I heard coverage from Channel 5 this morning before work.  Found the segment: https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/originals/downtown-real-estate-insiders-confident-sherwin-williams-will-stay-near-cleveland

 

Sounds like most of the local TV news Stations and NPR are covering it.  Just nothing from the PD / Cleveland.com 

Edited November 7, 20195 yr by MuRrAy HiLL

36 minutes ago, X said:

 

Actually, this is how the internet works now:

 

"THIS major corporation went looking for a new corporate headquarters, but the one they chose will BLOW YOUR MIND"

 

"Stop trying to relocate your corporation to Atlanta, move here instead"

 

"11 Insane reasons that Public Square is the best spot for a corporate campus"

 

"53 NSFW historic photos of the Weston lots- #17 will SHOCK you"

 

And all of them are slideshows where you have to scroll past a bunch of ads to find the next button on each side.

8 minutes ago, MuRrAy HiLL said:

 

I heard coverage from Channel 5 this morning before work.  Found the segment: https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/originals/downtown-real-estate-insiders-confident-sherwin-williams-will-stay-near-cleveland

 

Sounds like most of the local TV news Stations and NPR are covering it.  Just nothing from the PD / Cleveland.com 

 

No props to @KJP in that article. That’s ? ?. At least they got some quality quotes from the hot dog stand guy.  E.G.:  "We're kind of light on parking already," said Edwards.  ?‍♂️ 

7 minutes ago, Boomerang_Brian said:

 

No props to @KJP in that article. That’s ??. At least they got some quality quotes from the hot dog stand guy.  E.G.:  "We're kind of light on parking already," said Edwards.  ?‍♂️ 

Good sound reporting there.  Let’s get the hot dog guy’s spin.

25 minutes ago, MuRrAy HiLL said:

 

I heard coverage from Channel 5 this morning before work.  Found the segment: https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/originals/downtown-real-estate-insiders-confident-sherwin-williams-will-stay-near-cleveland

 

Sounds like most of the local TV news Stations and NPR are covering it.  Just nothing from the PD / Cleveland.com 

 

"Now that the prevailing thought is that Sherwin-Williams is sticking around, the confidence is back.

"Everybody feels more positive that we're not going to have this massive amount of apartments we can't fill," said Dottore."

 

Perhaps Stark may want to rethink The Nucleus original version...

 

Edited November 7, 20195 yr by Mildtraumatic

Perhaps Stark put NuCleus on hold pending an official announcement from SHW that they’re staying downtown.

7 minutes ago, Mildtraumatic said:

Perhaps Stark may want to rethink The Nucleus original version...

 

 

that would be incredible.

 

I know that original design was controversial, but I loved it

Prevailing wage remains the sticking point for Nucleus.  It would be under construction right now if not for that issue. 

On 11/6/2019 at 10:39 AM, JSC216 said:

SHW is already located downtown and technically currently have an indoor connection to the Renaissance. I doubt this has a major impact on their hotel occupancy. 

Yes BUT SHW is right now located on Huron, whereas when it's across the street on Superior it would provide a great location for out of town customers, managers, and trainees to be based at the Renaissance Hotel and with ALMOST DOUBLE the NUMBER of EMPLOYEES TOO!

Edited November 7, 20195 yr by Larry1962
Typos

Okay, but what does that dork of a 'relocation expert' have to say? That's all I want to know. 

13 minutes ago, freefourur said:

Prevailing wage remains the sticking point for Nucleus.  It would be under construction right now if not for that issue. 

 

^ Yeah, prevailing wage is one of the hold-ups. The TMUD legislation pending through the statehouse is likely another. Developers aren't in the habit of leaving money on the table, and if there's an opportunity to lower their cost they're going to wait.

 

Bringing it back to S-W, I have to imagine the TMUD would be applicable for their headquarters if they can manage to call it "mixed use". They may even wait for an announcement until the legislation passes.

15 minutes ago, Mendo said:

 

^ Yeah, prevailing wage is one of the hold-ups. The TMUD legislation pending through the statehouse is likely another. Developers aren't in the habit of leaving money on the table, and if there's an opportunity to lower their cost they're going to wait.

 

Bringing it back to S-W, I have to imagine the TMUD would be applicable for their headquarters if they can manage to call it "mixed use". They may even wait for an announcement until the legislation passes.

 

SHW isn't waiting on nor counting on the TMUD legislation to be passed.

Edited November 7, 20195 yr by Clefan98

^ Although, they are in an opportunity zone.  So they might get some tax shelter on top of the subsidies.

2 hours ago, NR said:

So I think I have found the happy medium of "corporate campus" and urban high-rise.  The Tencent Headquarters in China.  

 

Here is a quick description I found of their Corporate Campus:  "The traditional model for corporate design places companies in a singular high-rise or in multiple low-rise buildings. The design of the Tencent Seafront Towers merges the concepts by bringing the best of both together. Dubbed the Synergy Tower, the building provides the value associated with high-rises in urban locations with the connectivity of a low-rise campus."

 

The video in this link gives a great look at and overview of the Corporate Headquarters. The video is Must See:  http://www.nbbj.com/work/tencent/

 

The materials and look can be adjusted as needed for the desired appearance, but I believe the overall concept/design is much better than a bunch of low or maybe mid-rise buildings. Those belong in a suburban location.  Plus I love the Green-Space that Tencent has on the top of each connecting bridge. Very well done and providing great views for your employees.

 

 

I think a lot of us could live with that design!  - but maybe not Stark - it’s a reminder of the original Nucleus - times two. 

48 minutes ago, Larry1962 said:

Yes BUT SHW is right now located on Huron, whereas when it's across the street on Superior it would provide a great location for out of town customers, managers, and trainees to be based at the Renaissance Hotel and with ALMOST DOUBLE the NUMBER of EMPLOYEES TOO!

 

Good point. And to add on to some of my comments from yesterday; SHW has ~300 employees located at their training center currently based in Strongsville. They bring in 1000's of employees from the across the world for training each year. Most of these employees are put up in hotels along the 71 corridor in Middleburg. The new training center will be based at the new downtown HQ (interior design is already underway) and is due to almost double in size. I believe a new hotel, or an expansion of an existing hotel, will be needed as part of this relocation and expansion.  

Edited November 7, 20195 yr by Clefan98

23 minutes ago, Clefan98 said:

 

Good point. And to add on to some of my comments from yesterday; SHW has ~300 employee's located at their training center currently based in Strongsville. They bring in 1000's of employees from the across the world for training each year. Most of these employees are put up in hotels along the 71 corridor in Middleburg. The new training center will be based at the new downtown HQ (interior design is already underway) and is due to almost double in size. I believe a new hotel, or an expansion of an existing hotel will be needed as part of this relocation and expansion.  

 

Should also note they rent additional office space at Case for VP training, and Baldwin Wallace for on-the-job development training. The number of trainees at these two locations are between 800-900 per year  (and growing). This is in addition to their official training center in Strongsville.  

Edited November 7, 20195 yr by Clefan98

40 minutes ago, Clefan98 said:

 

Should also note they rent additional office space at Case for VP training, and Baldwin Wallace for on-the-job development training. The number of trainees at these two locations are between 800-900 per year  (and growing). This is in addition to their official training center in Strongsville.  

Is the plan to consolidate ALL of those jobs and functions at the new HQ?  If so, that’s fantastic.  Just more moving parts than I originally thought.

2 minutes ago, Sapper Daddy said:

Is the plan to consolidate ALL of those jobs and functions at the new HQ?  If so, that’s fantastic.  Just more moving parts than I originally thought.

 

The push from the top is to consolidate as much as possible. The term being thrown around is "Global HQ", but I think saying ALL jobs would be a stretch. For instance, they're going to keep their model store and small training unit open in Berea. 

I'd love to see something along the lines of this, although obviously it would be done at a smaller scale. I've got a sinking feeling the HQ may look more like a 6-acre, 6-story brick, but a guy can dream! ?

 

Edited November 7, 20195 yr by LlamaLawyer
I failed proofreading school

I hope they think big.  They have an opportunity to make a bold statement and greatly enhance the Cleveland skyline.    Sohio had the opportunity to do that with their building in the 80s.  Unfortunately, they were too worried about exceeding the height of Terminal Tower and instead built the shortish, stocky building which was a bit underwhelming IMO. 

16 minutes ago, skiwest said:

I hope they think big.  They have an opportunity to make a bold statement and greatly enhance the Cleveland skyline.    Sohio had the opportunity to do that with their building in the 80s.  Unfortunately, they were too worried about exceeding the height of Terminal Tower and instead built the shortish, stocky building which was a bit underwhelming IMO. 

Were "They" worried, or did the zoning board, stop them from building the taller Sohio Building?

I think it was for the latter reason.

13 minutes ago, Frmr CLEder said:

I think it was for the latter reason.

I remember that.  In fact didnt SOHIO threaten to move over that?  Seems also that they originially to build in back of Tower City though i could be mistaken after 40 years

Not sure about sites or threats to relocate, but in the mid-80's, the city prohibited any buildings to exceed the height of the Terminal Tower.

Edited November 8, 20195 yr by Frmr CLEder

1 hour ago, skiwest said:

 instead built the shortish, stocky building which was a bit underwhelming IMO. 

 

I actually really like the look of that building (probably more than Key even) but most people I've talked to seem to agree more with your side.

When built, it was the first major PS construction since 55 PS, and it dramatically changed the skyline. While not a fan of its color, I do like the design and the way in which it embraces the PS site.

Edited November 8, 20195 yr by Frmr CLEder

I’m afraid that building examples being put up on this site look real Chinese or high end NYC. They do not look very Cleveland, especially representative of the conservative corporation that is SHW. Well, have fun, but at the end of the day, let’s hope they hire a good architect. Foster Partners, (Cle Clinic Med School, the Gherkin in London) in my opinion, would be a good choice along with a good site planning firm. Maybe they can get those stupid Jersey barricades out of Public Square!

Edited November 8, 20195 yr by fgerlak

On 11/6/2019 at 9:13 AM, Htsguy said:

It has been 29 years.  I venture to guess that some members of this forum were not even born yet.  I was getting to the point that I would have welcomed a McDonald's with a drive thru so long as something was built on that lot. 

I definitely wasn't lol.

"The project was headed by Richard and David Jacobs, who had recently opened the Galleria at Erieview Tower. The previous year, Cleveland City Planning Commission changed the height restrictions on the Society site from 250 to 900 feet. The Terminal Tower’s era of visual dominance was over."

 

https://clevelandhistorical.org/items/show/305

 

This made me wonder. What is the height restriction on the Jacobs lot? Is it around the same as Key Tower due to the Ameritrust plans? 

 

Also Society Tower was constructed not too long after the SOHIO building. Why were they able to exceed the height of Terminal Tower and SOHIO got push back?