"Idk, Google doesn’t seem to know what a “corporate hq urban campus” is. Lol"

 

Why am I not surprised?  Who created the term? TYVM.

Edited November 8, 20195 yr by Frmr CLEder

22 minutes ago, MyPhoneDead said:

This made me wonder. What is the height restriction on the Jacobs lot? Is it around the same as Key Tower due to the Ameritrust plans?

 

900'

 

https://cityofcleveland.legistar.com/LegislationDetail.aspx?ID=3318095&GUID=51FC9D7A-710C-4CA5-AC1A-974D65F5E89D&Options=ID|Text|&Search=height

 

Within that page is a link to a PDF with a map. The recently simplified height districts have been discussed and shared elsewhere on the board.

 

Cleveland.com article that discusses the height districts but no longer has a working map: https://www.cleveland.com/realestate-news/2018/03/downtown_cleveland_zoning_chan.html

Edited November 8, 20195 yr by infrafreak
phrasing, as Archer would say. plus an extra link.

A friend of mine who works for DCA told me once that the pylons for the Ameritrust tower were poured before the project was cancelled, so Jacobs would never put in a building there under 40 stories. Anybody know if there is truth to this comment?

Dream bruuuuuutal ?

19 minutes ago, scg80 said:

A friend of mine who works for DCA told me once that the pylons for the Ameritrust tower were poured before the project was cancelled, so Jacobs would never put in a building there under 40 stories. Anybody know if there is truth to this comment?

 

I don't believe that is true. 

8 hours ago, scg80 said:

A friend of mine who works for DCA told me once that the pylons for the Ameritrust tower were poured before the project was cancelled, so Jacobs would never put in a building there under 40 stories. Anybody know if there is truth to this comment?

 

If you mean caissons, then no - if I recall correctly, the previous buildings were demolished, Ameritrust was cancelled and the site was paved for parking, end of story. I don't think there was ever any formal construction, above or below street level.

15 hours ago, Mov2Ohio said:

Were "They" worried, or did the zoning board, stop them from building the taller Sohio Building?

You are correct, it was the city that prevented Sohio from exceeding the height of Terminal Tower.  For some reason, I had thought it was Sohio's decision.

11 hours ago, Frmr CLEder said:

 

"Idk, Google doesn’t seem to know what a “corporate hq urban campus” is. Lol"

 

Why am I not surprised?

 

"Downtown headquarters campus" is almost an oxymoron. The vast majority of "headquarters campuses" are way out in the 'burbs, and the vast majority of "downtown headquarters" either aren't really campuses or really aren't campuses. So it's sorta hard to picture what SHW is planning (and obviously most all we're doing is guessing and playing SimCity). 

If you think about how they want both office functions and labs on the same property it may make it clearer why a collection of buildings makes more sense than one large vertical structure.

 

 

Anyone know if there was there ever anything remarkable on the Jacobs lot? 

I forget what was there before it was torn down for Ameritrust, but I don't remember it being anything special, as opposed to the county administration building that was imploded for the Standard Oil (Sohio?) building.

9 minutes ago, punch said:

Anyone know if there was there ever anything remarkable on the Jacobs lot? 

I forget what was there before it was torn down for Ameritrust, but I don't remember it being anything special, as opposed to the county administration building that was imploded for the Standard Oil (Sohio?) building.

It was a couple of old multi tenant buildings that had been "modernized" with some awful cladding (see picture @MayDay posted in this thread pre cladding).  I remember there were lots of sole practitioner lawyers in the building sharing office space since it was so close to court.

 

I am confused by your referenced to the county administration building imploded for Sohio?  Where was it?  I recall the Cuyahoga and Williamson Buildings being the primary tear downs and a great loss.

Edited November 8, 20195 yr by Htsguy

^I may be remembering the name / function of the Cuyahoga and WIlliamsom wrong.  

 

36 minutes ago, punch said:

^I may be remembering the name / function of the Cuyahoga and WIlliamsom wrong.  

 

If I recall they were just regular office buildings.  Very special, especially the Cuyahoga.   I would have rather that they had stayed and Sohio had built on what is now the Jacobs lot instead.

Edited November 8, 20195 yr by Htsguy

13 minutes ago, punch said:

Anyone know if there was there ever anything remarkable on the Jacobs lot? 

I forget what was there before it was torn down for Ameritrust, but I don't remember it being anything special, as opposed to the county administration building that was imploded for the Standard Oil (Sohio?) building.

 Here is a photo from 1952 of that section of PS. Notice the giant whiskey ad on the top of the smaller building in the middle to even the height.

OMG, I had completely forgotten about Swift Cleaners.

5 hours ago, MayDay said:

 

If you mean caissons, then no - if I recall correctly, the previous buildings were demolished, Ameritrust was cancelled and the site was paved for parking, end of story. I don't think there was ever any formal construction, above or below street level.

 

MayDay is correct, the construction never started, no foundation work was done. It was simply paved over ... I was following it very closely back then, near the beginning of my urban design obsessions. ?

Edited November 8, 20195 yr by Paul in Cleveland

I wonder what the speculation that S-W has options to buy the Weston lots means for our hopes of something mixed use. There needs to be retail on St. Clair and W.3rd, and along Public Square. Is there any retail in the Landmark office building?

Cleveland never had a height limit inspired by the Terminal Tower. Areas were zoned by height based on their relationship to the “context” of Cleveland. Simple economics (and foundation needs) dictated the heights of most buildings and prevented construction of real tall skyscrapers here.

Edited November 8, 20195 yr by fgerlak

10 minutes ago, fgerlak said:

Cleveland never had a height limit inspired by the Terminal Tower. Areas were zoned by height based on their relationship to the “context” of Cleveland. Simple economics (and foundation needs) dictated the heights of most buildings and prevented construction of real tall skyscrapers here.

 

Yet Key Tower managed to hold the title of tallest building between NYC and Chicago from 1991-2007 when Comast Center in Philly topped off.   I give Cleveland props for that!  

11 minutes ago, Cleburger said:

 

Yet Key Tower managed to hold the title of tallest building between NYC and Chicago from 1991-2007 when Comast Center in Philly topped off.   I give Cleveland props for that!  

 

And same for Terminal Tower for quite an extended period of time as well. 

45 minutes ago, fgerlak said:

Cleveland never had a height limit inspired by the Terminal Tower. Areas were zoned by height based on their relationship to the “context” of Cleveland. Simple economics (and foundation needs) dictated the heights of most buildings and prevented construction of real tall skyscrapers here.

I think 200 Public Square wanted to be taller than TT initially but was prevented from doing so if my memory serves me correctly. Man I feel old!

I found a more recent photo of the northwest quadrant of public square. This photo would be circa 1980, Ameritrust already owned the property, before being torn down for their never realized office tower.

 

^That's the pic I remember seeing, too young to remember seeing the buildings themselves.

 

Can't wait to see what SW comes up with for the site; the impact on downtown and Cleveland's perception to both those who live here and those who don't will be priceless.

7 minutes ago, Growth Mindset said:

I found a more recent photo of the northwest quadrant of public square. This photo would be circa 1980, Ameritrust already owned the property, before being torn down for their never realized office tower.

 

Looks like one of the Weston lots was already a parking lot and the other a parking garage in 1980. It's unbelievable that it  will have taken 40 years to get rid of those eyesores!

Edited November 8, 20195 yr by Frmr CLEder

1 minute ago, Frmr CLEder said:

Looks like one of the Weston lots was already a parking lot and the other a parking garage in 1980. It's unbelievable that it  will have taken 40 years to get rid of those eyesores!

 I wonder why they took down the garage.  It must have been too worn down or something because I don't see the financial benefit of tearing down a parking garage.

It was torn down as part of a development proposal for Eaton when they were looking for a new headquarters.

Also, as I recall, it was a very unattractive, form-follows-function, three-story garage that actually would have been more attractive if it had been a surface lot. Oh, did I mention it was painted sky blue.

Edited November 8, 20195 yr by Frmr CLEder

10 minutes ago, Frmr CLEder said:

Also, as I recall, it was a very unattractive, form-follows-function, three-story garage that actually would have been more attractive if it had been a surface lot. Oh, did I mention it was painted sky blue.

There was also a deli on the ground floor.

Regardless of the Terminal Tower height, over the later years, with a few exceptions, the 22 story, 300 foot high rise reigned supreme in Cleveland. Why? It was the theoretical height that could be supported by a floating slab or mat foundation. Finally David Lewin, a soils engineer, broke the rule, and designed a mat foundation for the 400+ foot National City Bank Building (which is still 400’). After that, building heights increased. Still taller buildings were built on expensive pile foundations. I am sure the “main” SHW skyscraper will require piles, but some of the subordinate buildings, up to 400’, will have the cheaper mat foundations.

Edited November 8, 20195 yr by fgerlak

19 minutes ago, Growth Mindset said:

There was also a deli on the ground floor.

 

It was a real Cleveland institution, you could park your car, get a payday loan, and then get a sandwich. It's a shame we can't preserve our historic parking garages.

7 hours ago, cle_guy90 said:

 I wonder why they took down the garage.  It must have been too worn down or something because I don't see the financial benefit of tearing down a parking garage.

 

Forest City Enterprises bought it and razed it in preparation for a future development built atoo the West Side Transit Center that never happened. The restaurant in the middle of the deck was Hoty's for many decades. That building dated to the 1830s but had its old facade torn off, it wasn't worth saving anymore. 

Thank goodness that transit center never happened there

10 hours ago, Cleburger said:

 

Yet Key Tower managed to hold the title of tallest building between NYC and Chicago from 1991-2007 when Comast Center in Philly topped off.   I give Cleveland props for that!  

Per online rankings found, Key Tower still #34 in country in height - with almost everything taller being in NYC, Chicago and a few other top 5-6 population metros. And was ranked somewhat higher until all the recent supertall build in NYC, etc.

20 hours ago, math said:

 

It was a real Cleveland institution, you could park your car, get a payday loan, and then get a sandwich. It's a shame we can't preserve our historic parking garages.

 

WOW, now that's bringing back some interesting memories of my young adult life that I TOTALLY FORGOT ABOUT...

 

It seems like a million years ago now...

 

BUT HOPEFULLY we all will have good memories of this major project as its constructed!  And MAYBE even have some employment, fun, dining, dancing, and who knows what else each of us collectively enjoying ourselves spending time in the NEW SHW CENTER!!

Edited November 9, 20195 yr by Larry1962

10 hours ago, YABO713 said:

 

And same for Terminal Tower for quite an extended period of time as well. 

Something like 34 YEARS being the TALLEST BUILDING OUTSIDE NYC!

It was the second tallest building in the world when it was completed!

Edited November 9, 20195 yr by Frmr CLEder

On 11/6/2019 at 9:27 AM, YABO713 said:

@KJP You didn't have to do the comms director so dirty, Ken! ? "THAT MAN HAS A FAMILY"

 

I toned down that part of the article when the article had only 9,000 +/- views. It's since topped 22,000 views, the third-most viewed article on NEOtrans. In case you were wondering, the most-viewed was when I broke the story of an Amazon Fulfillment Center replacing Euclid Square Mall. And #2 was the closing of the Phantasy Theater in Lakewood when a prospective buyer put that property under contract. Ultimately the sale didn't go through and the theater reopened. 

 

That's all the more reason why we should restrain our enthusiasm when I say that SHW has the Weston lots (and probably the Jacobs lot too) under contract. It's important, but not a sign that anything is a done deal.

9 hours ago, Larry1962 said:

 

WOW, now that's bringing back some interesting memories of my young adult life that I TOTALLY FORGOT ABOUT...

 

It seems like a million years ago now...

 

BUT HOPEFULLY we all will have good memories of this major project as its constructed!  And MAYBE even some employment, fun, dining, dancing, and who knows what else of us collectively enjoying ourselves spending time in the NEW SHW CENTER!!

 

That what development does, it brings out memories.  Most people over 40 will remember going to Halle's or Higbee's for Christmas.  Mr. JIngaling and the Christmas decorations, displays  and Santa.  Remember what is street level at the Park Building? Hough Bakery and Record .   I purposely go into Society Bank, because of the memories of banking there before direct deposit.  I remember paying bills at the CEI building.  In addition, we all can remember the types of Xrated / undesirable businesses that were in the WHD.  I mentioned this before, but it's funny to me, that popular restaurants and apartments in the WHD, once were X rated book stores.  It's important to remember the past and see how it has changed for the better. My oldest nephew and Niece barely remember Higbees downtown, and at that point Higbee's was only 5 floors.  They don't know a time when the Shaker Rapid and the Cleveland Rapid were separate.

They never knew a time where you could shop downtown to 6:30pm, and Thursdays to 9pm at Halles, May Co. and Higbee's and shop stores from Higbee's to Public Square.

 

I hope this new development brings new memories and experiences that we can all share and memories that our children and grand children can read about here and in Cleveland Memory Project in great detail.

"I mentioned this before, but it's funny to me, that popular restaurants and apartments in the WHD, once were X rated book stores" and bath houses.

5 minutes ago, Frmr CLEder said:

"I mentioned this before, but it's funny to me, that popular restaurants and apartments in the WHD, once were X rated book stores" and bath houses.

 

I was trying to keep it PG13 for the youngsters.  But the cat is out of the bag now.

On 11/8/2019 at 6:44 AM, MayDay said:

 

If you mean caissons, then no - if I recall correctly, the previous buildings were demolished, Ameritrust was cancelled and the site was paved for parking, end of story. I don't think there was ever any formal construction, above or below street 

Maybe theyre confusing the fact that the foundations for the former Ameritrust Buildings are most likely still in the ground.   They were probably over designed with a high factor of safety and could potentially support a building of that size.  In any event, they will all need removed prior to the installation of new foundations.

5 minutes ago, Jenny said:

Maybe theyre confusing the fact that the foundations for the former Ameritrust Buildings are most likely still in the ground.   They were probably over designed with a high factor of safety and could potentially support a building of that size.  In any event, they will all need removed prior to the installation of new foundations.

I am actually confused by your post.  Like May Day said there was no construction on the Jacobs lot at all after demolition of the previous buildings in the early 90s.  Are you referring to the foundations of the old buildings which I agree might still be there and would have to be dealt with when excavation begins.

32 minutes ago, Htsguy said:

I am actually confused by your post.  Like May Day said there was no construction on the Jacobs lot at all after demolition of the previous buildings in the early 90s.  Are you referring to the foundations of the old buildings which I agree might still be there and would have to be dealt with when excavation begins.

That’s what I got out of @Jenny‘s post—that the foundations may be left by the two buildings shown in previous posts upthread that were formerly used by Ameritrust. 
 

Knowing nothing about construction—if they were overengineered for a building bigger than the ones that sat on top of them, why wouldn’t they fit a new, taller building?

24 minutes ago, Clevecane said:

That’s what I got out of @Jenny‘s post—that the foundations may be left by the two buildings shown in previous posts upthread that were formerly used by Ameritrust. 
 

Knowing nothing about construction—if they were overengineered for a building bigger than the ones that sat on top of them, why wouldn’t they fit a new, taller 

I suppose you could pull up the engineered drawings if they still exist (probably not), and start calculating what kind of bearing capacity they have. But if those buildings were built over 100 years ago, taller for them may have only been 20 stories. Long story short they are probably not adequate for what we think SW has in mind for that site. It's better to just assume their removal so those costs are already factored into the project.

1 hour ago, Clevecane said:

That’s what I got out of @Jenny‘s post—that the foundations may be left by the two buildings shown in previous posts upthread that were formerly used by Ameritrust. 
 

Knowing nothing about construction—if they were overengineered for a building bigger than the ones that sat on top of them, why wouldn’t they fit a new, taller building?

1.  Ameritrust was never located in those two buildings (maybe a branch in the ground floor of one of them at one time but not even sure of that).  It's headquarters were at east ninth and Euclid (now Heinens and the 9).  They were planning to move to the Jacobs lot in a more than 50 story building (Jacobs was to be the developer and got stuck with the lot when Ameritrust merged with Society (now Key)).

 

2.  Like @Mov2Ohio said, if people are suggesting that the two foundations of those old short building (which again had no connection to Ameritrust) could be incorporated into a new build of the SWH headquarters, I don't know how that would be possible or why you would want to do it.

12 hours ago, Htsguy said:

1.  Ameritrust was never located in those two buildings (maybe a branch in the ground floor of one of them at one time but not even sure of that).  It's headquarters were at east ninth and Euclid (now Heinens and the 9).  They were planning to move to the Jacobs lot in a more than 50 story building (Jacobs was to be the developer and got stuck with the lot when Ameritrust merged with Society 

thanks, @Mov2Ohio. I knew Ameritrust was on Ninth, but if you look up thread, the PS lot buildings have a giant Ameritrust sign—hence the assumption that they may have had overflow offices or a branch. 

Crain's continues its attempt to fan the flames in the SW HQ conversation.  This story was just released...

 

https://www.crainscleveland.com/manufacturing/out-state-option-surfaces-new-sherwin-williams-headquarters

Edited November 10, 20195 yr by Frmr CLEder

28 minutes ago, Frmr CLEder said:

Crain's continues its attempt to throw a wrinkle into the SW HQ conversation...

 

https://www.crainscleveland.com/manufacturing/out-state-option-surfaces-new-sherwin-williams-headquarters

 

I could be wrong but I just feel like it’s an investor who is trying to make it seem like they are in the running when they clearly are not.  The search is not very early from everything people has heard from well connected sources. 

 

In response to an analyst's question, Smith said the Sherwin-Williams search is "very early" and the company has multiple Atlanta sites it could entertain. He also cited press reports that other suitor cities might be Charlotte and Dallas.

 

Also, the guy didn’t seem to have a clue what the size of the project would be and just said a million square feet based on what would be best for the site and not what he has been contacted for.

 

Mods please remove if the two sentences is too much to copy and paste from a paywall.

regardless, anyone else find this tedious at this point?

 

These competing stories must probably be nothing short of psychological torture for current employees who want and need to make decisions about their future. Enough is enough.

 

Despite CEO Morikis last statement regarding timeline for official announcement, I think they need to re-consider and move this up ASAP.

 

Not fair to employees (and fans of UO ?)

1 hour ago, NewtoCLE said:

regardless, anyone else find this tedious at this point?

 

These competing stories must probably be nothing short of psychological torture for current employees who want and need to make decisions about their future. Enough is enough.

 

Despite CEO Morikis last statement regarding timeline for official announcement, I think they need to re-consider and move this up ASAP.

 

Not fair to employees (and fans of UO ?)

Life isn't fair.  The rumors would take place regardless.