The news isn't being circulated. I've spent many months trying to earn the trust of dozens of people who are working on this project. I believe that most of them believe that SHW's employees and Clevelanders who love this city deserve to know what's happening with one of its flagship companies. Many others in the media aren't making this level of effort to find people directly involved in the project who are willing to confide in them. I will not reveal anything about these sources. If you knew their identities (especially about a half-dozen top insiders), you would consider their information to be unassailable. Sadly, SHW is making efforts to find out who they are but they will not succeed. After SHW starts construction in 2021, I will tell you how I know what SHW is doing to learn their identities. And what's best is that, unlike a few months ago when there was a deliberate smokescreen coming from 101 W. Prospect, I have been able to penetrate that smokescreen. The actions from SHW are now amazingly clear to me about where they intend to build. No one else in Cleveland media has taken the time to develop the sources I have, although one of them is starting to. Everyone else in the media doesn't have a single insider source except Mike "Smokescreen" Conway. So if the likes of Brent Larkin or John Boyd are making you nervous, ask what level of detail are they providing about the project itself? They are writing or speaking to fill an empty space.

 

So I'm confused that some of you are still confused. This is becoming clearer and clearer to me all the time. In fact, this project has always been about the Jacobs/Weston lots and whatever competition SHW could find for them. SHW and its project consultant Welty have reached out to others to see if any other sites were better. I learned two weeks ago that SHW/Welty in early 2019 contacted maybe a dozen downtown property owners and one suburban one -- DiGeronimo. Yes, SHW/Welty contacted DiGeronimo (and it was only about the R&D facility). Not the other way around. SHW/Welty didn't reach out to anyone else. They didn't reach out to anyone beyond Greater Cleveland. They always wanted to be downtown, and they always wanted to be on the Jacobs/Weston lots -- barring a surprise that someone else was going to offer them a wonderful deal. And when they started reaching out to property owners, that's when they secured the purchase agreement for the Jacobs/Weston lots. That was a placeholder so that, while SHW did its due diligence on other sites, they wouldn't miss out on their preferred site. As far as I know, they didn't pursue purchase agreements with any other property owners.

 

Even what appears to be the next-favorite site, SHW has either reduced or outright stopped all initiatives for working out a deal with Bedrock. They haven't yet told them they're out of the running, but they are no longer taking the initiative there. Instead, Bedrock is trying to keep SHW interested in them. But I don't think it's going to persuade SHW at this point to abandon the Jacobs/Weston lots. With SHW filing the CODs for the Weston lots, that is a very big and very public "tell" from SHW. And may I remind that I was advised five days before the CODs were filed that SHW was going to file them for the Jacobs/Weston lots. So I asked a couple of people to keep an eye out for the CODs being filed so I could report on them first. I suspect certain people at SHW were surprised that I learned about the CODs so quickly. Thanks to those of you who helped! Since then, a few people in the media who recognize the significance of the CODs have been in touch me to either congratulate me and/or to request more information about what SHW is doing.

 

So please believe me when I say we're coming down the home stretch here to the finish line. SHW is very close to making a public announcement. And it might even include massings/renderings. I won't have renderings in my next article, but you will see why it is likely that SHW may have some massings soon. I'm not asking you to throw caution to the wind or put money down on construction start dates. What I am asking you to do is to enjoy this moment. And when the next moment comes, I hope you and I can enjoy that moment too. Will we? Who cares! Don't get too far ahead of yourselves. Just enjoy this moment and I hope you'll join me in learning a little bit more about this project as it evolves. I guarantee one thing -- it's going to be educational. And I love learning.

2 hours ago, Oldmanladyluck said:

 

Kinda looks like things are still in play and this is a bit of poker being played by SW, Bedrock, and the Westin/Jacobs site.

 

The person with whom I was texting said that, in his experience, far too many title agencies believe they should file CODs for commercial projects when they don't have to. Perhaps we assume that everyone knows all the time what they're doing when it comes to megaprojects like this. That's not always the case.

3 hours ago, Frmr CLEder said:

Maybe it's because not all of the stars are perfectly aligned.

1.  New Jacob's core samples were just obtained yesterday

2.  As they did for Weston, no paperwork was filed with the City for the Jacobs lot

3.  Would this project be eligible for TMUD?  If so, its fate is still pending and could impact project financing

4.  Despite what's happening on PS/Weston, it sounds like Bedrock is still making a strong pitch

While there are still some unknowns, things appear to be moving favorably.

 

The project would be eligible for TMUD, but SHW isn't going to pursue it. Everything else you write here is spot-on.

Edited November 16, 20195 yr by KJP

Just now, KJP said:

 

The project would be eligible for TMUD, but SHW isn't going to pursue it.

OZ funding though?

 

On a side note, thank you for your stellar research and reporting on this.  

5 minutes ago, Sapper Daddy said:

OZ funding though?

 

On a side note, thank you for your stellar research and reporting on this.  

 

Doubtful on the OZ funding. SHW isn't seeking investors. They can spend six months of their net cash flow to build what will likely be a $1+ billion HQ+R&D facility without incurring any interest payments at all.

 

Thanks for the compliment!

The work you’ve put into this is incredible @KJP Thanks for sharing it with all of us here. As I said before- this has been the most exciting and fun project to track on this board in all of my 12 years on UO. The public announcement will be something to see after all these months of speculation!

On 11/14/2019 at 1:12 PM, shack said:

I think it should be complimentary to 200 Public Square across from it in the way Key Tower  compliments the Terminal Tower. I don't think another spire is needed or beneficial to the skyline.

Please NOT!!!

Would they cap geotech survey holes like this? These are in the Jacobs lot....

 

 

 

 

On 11/15/2019 at 3:49 PM, KJP said:

 

I thought the CPD HQ was going to Atlanta?? ?

 

2 hours ago, KJP said:

Would they cap geotech survey holes like this? These are in the Jacobs lot....

 

 

 

 

Maybe so a person's shoe doesn't get catch or a tripping hazard if left uncapped.

I’ve decided to take KJP’s advice and “enjoy the moment”. So, at the risk of seeming presumptive and speculative, I was trying to imagine something reasonably along the lines of what we might get for an HQ tower based on the latest bits we‘ve been hearing these past few weeks (e.g. Max 40 stories, etc.) I thought of Milwaukee’s quite New Northwestern Mutual Headquarters. 33 stories, 1,500,000 feet of floor space and 550 feet high - perhaps it’s even a bit shorter than what we might get but just to share the idea...

^Nice looking building. I hope we get something similar with SW. As I mentioned before even at 40 stories on or near Public Square, a tower that size is going to make a huge impression on the skyline, while getting rid of the Parking Lot District! 

Edited November 17, 20195 yr by Mov2Ohio

To me, "enjoy the moment" means getting excited at seeing pre-purchase certificates filed by SHW on a publicly accessible website! ?

Okay....changing the subject from financing to height speculation.  I know a "guy" (his kid plays hockey with mine) that was working on the lot downtown and was telling me that SHW was planning on building a 75 story building.  While he is not employed by SHW, and I am not sure where he got that info...it would be really cool if true!

It’s ridiculous to even have any doubt at this point from everything Ken has uncovered. The CEO, who isn’t a Clevelander throws down $10-15 million on a Lakefront mansion, and were wondering if he’s setting himself up to commute back to Cleveland from his new headquarters in Atlanta/Dallas/Charlotte/BFE/JohnBoydshouse.

 

Strip off that decades old whoa is me attitude. It’s annoying, and regressive, and flies in the face of everything directly in front of you. Make a toast to SHW, light up a Cuban, and envision how f*cking cool downtown is going to be 5 years from now. 

Edited November 17, 20195 yr by marty15

A whistleblower told me those are not geotech survey holes at all, he/she said they are just searching for Jimmy Hoffa... 

 

Any idea why some are capped and others are not?

When the project is officially announced UO should have a celebration- and I will be personally buying KJP a beer! 

Just now, Oldmanladyluck said:

When the project is officially announced UO should have a celebration- and I will be personally buying KJP a beer! 

Someone needs to nominate him for an investigative Pulitzer.

9 minutes ago, Oldmanladyluck said:

When the project is officially announced UO should have a celebration- and I will be personally buying KJP a beer! 

 

Thanks, but I gave up booze 16 years ago. However, I'll gladly accept a nice, cold Diet Coke. ?

42 minutes ago, cfdwarrior said:

Okay....changing the subject from financing to height speculation.  I know a "guy" (his kid plays hockey with mine) that was working on the lot downtown and was telling me that SHW was planning on building a 75 story building.  While he is not employed by SHW, and I am not sure where he got that info...it would be really cool if true!

Man that would be that Supertall as Key Bank is 57 stories tall.

I also hope they go tall. Maybe they can have a spinning paint can on top that would actually be a revolving rooftop restaurant!

 

 

2 hours ago, marty15 said:

It’s ridiculous to even have any doubt at this point from everything Ken has uncovered. The CEO, who isn’t a Clevelander throws down $10-15 million on a Lakefront mansion, and were wondering if he’s setting himself up to commute back to Cleveland from his new headquarters in Atlanta/Dallas/Charlotte/BFE/JohnBoydshouse.

 

Strip off that decades old whoa is me attitude. It’s annoying, and regressive, and flies in the face of everything directly in front of you. Make a toast to SHW, light up a Cuban, and envision how f*cking cool downtown is going to be 5 years from now. 

You get a standing ovation. Thank you!!!!!!

2 hours ago, cfdwarrior said:

Okay....changing the subject from financing to height speculation.  I know a "guy" (his kid plays hockey with mine) that was working on the lot downtown and was telling me that SHW was planning on building a 75 story building.  While he is not employed by SHW, and I am not sure where he got that info...it would be really cool if true!

I would assume that drilling depth/number of drilling locations would give some idea of the size/height of the building, but that's just speculation on my part. And maybe as KJP was saying that people in SW were giving smokescreens, maybe "40 stories or less" allows them to come out with a surprise in their announcement since Ken has already spoiled their location ??

While I would absolutely love to see a 75 stories tall headquarters skyscraper for Sherwin-Williams, that doesn't seem to fit in with all of the information that has been provided by Urban Ohio's super sleuth @KJP.

 

I guess we all have to remain hopeful until the company releases some type of official renderings.

 

Sherwin-Williams, if you're reading this (I'm convinced that you are) then puleeeeeze build us a 75 story skyscraper that will become as iconic as our own Terminal Tower!!!!

 

??❤???

I'm gonna be super smart ass here...

Maybe he was thinking 75 stories in total, spread out into multiple other buildings. Tallest being 40 and the others are 15 and 20.

Edited November 17, 20195 yr by tastybunns

19 minutes ago, tastybunns said:

I'm gonna be super smart ass here...

Maybe he was thinking 75 stories in total, spread out into multiple other buildings. Tallest being 40 and the others are 15 and 20.

 

Or 75 1-story buildings.  They are going to look like ranch houses, each painted in a different S-W branded color.

 

I am superest smart ass!

@KJP, the caps are either for a permanant well put in for sampling water, or an inclinometer.  An inclinometer well is used to monitor groundwater levels.  To me this is saying somebody is looking to build a structure with some below grade elements to it such as a garage.  Tight site, tough to put a below grade garage in here.  They may be considering a matt foundation for a building which requires mass excavation and dewatering of the higher groundwater table.  All in all, they just want to see where water is naturally ocurring and at what level theyll encounter it.. 

Edited November 17, 20195 yr by Jenny

That's great info. Thanks Jenny.

Thanks Jenny. This could make sense if they are planning to place a sub-grade garage below the HQ building, with the lower-rise campus buildings on the Weston lots. 

I’m so looking forward to this void being filled! 

1 hour ago, mack34 said:

I’m so looking forward to this void being filled! 

 

 

That’s what she....nvm

13 hours ago, skiwest said:

I also hope they go tall. Maybe they can have a spinning paint can on top .....

 

 

 

I love seeing the (Mobil oil) Pegasus atop the magnolia building in Dallas.  

I'm not sure how this works, but is there any possibility of any mixed use space being a part of this HQ plan?

13 hours ago, skiwest said:

I also hope they go tall. Maybe they can have a spinning paint can on top that would actually be a revolving rooftop restaurant!

 

 

And also an art piece / water feature at ground level  that looks like it's pouring out paint, but instead it's a water fall that's lit by multi-colored LED's ?

Edited November 17, 20195 yr by ASPhotoman

35 minutes ago, ASPhotoman said:

And also an art piece / water feature at ground level  that looks like it's pouring out paint, but instead it's a water fall that's lit by multi-colored LED's ?

That is too funny- I have envisioned that EXACT sort of thing since this all started! 

Edited November 17, 20195 yr by mrclifton88

15 hours ago, cfdwarrior said:

Okay....changing the subject from financing to height speculation.  I know a "guy" (his kid plays hockey with mine) that was working on the lot downtown and was telling me that SHW was planning on building a 75 story building.  While he is not employed by SHW, and I am not sure where he got that info...it would be really cool if true!

Upthread i posted pics of the NW Mutual HQ in Milwaukee- a conservative comparison to a possible SW HQ Tower - at 33 stories and 550 feet. Even  at that scope; very impactful. But if a 75 story version was SW’s actual intention, some reasonable comparisons might be LA’s Wilshire Grand (73 floors and 1100 feet high completed in 2017) which is 14th tallest in the US and US Bank Tower, which dates to 1989 but is the still iconic LA skyscraper at 73 stories and 1,018 feet and 21st tallest in the country. 

 

 

Edited November 17, 20195 yr by CleveFan

The Wilshire Grand is a great example.  Office and Luxury hotel.  This is the type of building I hope is a part of the overall development.  The Spire Bar is fantastic and something like this would be amazing in Downtown.

48 minutes ago, ASPhotoman said:

And also an art piece / water feature at ground level  that looks like it's pouring out paint, but instead it's a water fall that's lit by multi-colored LED's ?

Something like the Heinz sign in Pittsburgh is what I imagined. Iconic, a bit retro and fun.

1 hour ago, CleveFan said:

Upthread i posted pics of the NW Mutual HQ in Milwaukee- a conservative comparison to a possible SW HQ Tower - at 33 stories and 550 feet. Even  at that scope; very impactful. But if a 75 story version was SW’s actual intention, some reasonable comparisons might be LA’s Wilshire Grand (73 floors and 1100 feet high completed in 2017) which is 14th tallest in the US and US Bank Tower, which dates to 1989 but is the still iconic LA skyscraper at 73 stories and 1,018 feet and 21st tallest in the country. 

 

 

Wilshire Grand is very nice but I was never a big fan of US Bank (First Interstate Bank) tower. It always seemed out of place because for the longest time, LA didn't really have many downtown skyscrapers of considerable height (and still doesn't to be #2) and the crown is weird.  LA has been the quintessential example of urban sprawl. San Francisco has always been the densely populated urban center on the West Coast.

Edited November 17, 20195 yr by Frmr CLEder

Plop this down on Public Square and I’ll be thrilled. Al Tijaria Tower in Kuwait.

Just now, marty15 said:

Plop this down on Public Square and I’ll be thrilled. Al Tijaria Tower in Kuwait.

 

40 minutes ago, CleveFan said:

Upthread i posted pics of the NW Mutual HQ in Milwaukee- a conservative comparison to a possible SW HQ Tower - at 33 stories and 550 feet. Even  at that scope; very impactful. But if a 75 story version was SW’s actual intention, some reasonable comparisons might be LA’s Wilshire Grand (73 floors and 1100 feet high completed in 2017) which is 14th tallest in the US and US Bank Tower, which dates to 1989 but is the still iconic LA skyscraper at 73 stories and 1,018 feet and 21st tallest in the country. 

I agree. That's why I created a mockup a couple months ago with the Wilshire Grand on the Jacobs lot. ?

44 minutes ago, tykaps said:

Something like the Heinz sign in Pittsburgh is what I imagined. Iconic, a bit retro and fun.

Please no!!!   Please keep it clean and classy.  

1 minute ago, ASPhotoman said:

I agree. That's why I created a mockup a couple months ago with the Wilshire Grand on the Jacobs lot. ?

 

I know it's not to scale, but for accuracy.  The building would be located NORTH of Superior.  As someone who worked downtown while there were buildings on the Jacobs lots, the Skyline will still have a gap or hole when viewing from the Eastside SOUTH of Chester.    The SOHIO Building will block the view of any building on the Jacobs lot UNLESS the building is taller.  From this view we should be seeing the S&S monument and the tip (PS/Superior corner) of Renaissance hotel.

4 minutes ago, MyTwoSense said:

 

I know it's not to scale, but for accuracy.  The building would be located NORTH of Superior.  As someone who worked downtown while there were buildings on the Jacobs lots, the Skyline will still have a gap or hole when viewing from the Eastside SOUTH of Chester.    The SOHIO Building will block the view of any building on the Jacobs lot UNLESS the building is taller.  From this view we should be seeing the S&S monument and the tip (PS/Superior corner) of Renaissance hotel.

Yeah I know. This has already been discussed upthread. It's not completely accurate, but it also won't be completely blocked. 

5 minutes ago, ASPhotoman said:

Yeah I know. This has already been discussed upthread. It's not completely accurate, but it also won't be completely blocked. 

 

This is going to be debatable, because I DO NOT recall being able to see those buildings while being physically east of May Co. In addition, we would need to see the design of any new building to truly know/see vantage points.

1 minute ago, MyTwoSense said:

This is going to be debatable, because I DO NOT recall being able to see those buildings while being physically east of May Co. In addition, we would need to see the design of any new building to truly know/see vantage points.

From the mockup I created and the overview I just showed you can clearly see S&S monument is in view from that vantage point. I even have it showing in the mockup from the google street view I created. You can see that if you can see the monument you'll be able to see what's on the Jacobs lots.

15 minutes ago, ASPhotoman said:

From the mockup I created and the overview I just showed you can clearly see S&S monument is in view from that vantage point. I even have it showing in the mockup from the google street view I created. You can see that if you can see the monument you'll be able to see what's on the Jacobs lots.

 

And I know what I saw with my OWN EYES, not a mock up.  I worked across from those buildings.   In regard to a new building, NOT ONE PERSON can say what the vantage points will be until a new building is designed and constructed.

 

We're going to disagree, which is fine, but the conversation is not going to move forward.

Edited November 17, 20195 yr by MyTwoSense

Light usually travels in straight lines, but recent posts theorize that it's path can bend depending on the recollections of the observer and the design of the building.

 

 

IT'S SCIENCE PEOPLE!!!!!!

15 minutes ago, MyTwoSense said:

We're going to disagree, which is fine, but the conversation is not going to move forward.

 

"...Because I'm right, dammit, and no amount of scientific analysis is going to convince me otherwise that I'm no longer a spring chick!!!" ?