Hearty congratulations to Cleveland!  Special thanks to KJP and the key insiders that have worked so hard to give us as much access behind the scenes through the process. Though it's not the dream scenario many of us had hoped for with the R & D facility downtown, it's still a huge victory for the city and Northeastern Ohio area.  The death of the parking lot sea off Public Square will be an incredibly impactful optic.  Although we probably won't get an extremely tall tower, I've no doubt we will get a corporate world HQ that will attract young and future workers on an international level. It will activate tremendous energy in the western part of downtown. SW will ensure that this facility is "state of the art" for the 21st century. 

It seems clear from a logistical/staging standpoint that the main headquarters tower will be built first.  And I still think we might be quite pleased with the tower's eventual height. Even by conservative estimates - a 30 story tower  (of this nature) could easily reach 500 feet. So even though the whole enchilada didn't land downtown - still a huge win for the CLE.  And now it's official! 

1 hour ago, KJP said:

 

EDIT2: I was just interviewed by Channel 19 at the Superblock. While there, the reporter got a phone call from the news director that there's a press conference at 2:30 pm today at City Hall about SHW.

 

 

 

 

Anyone hear anything from this presser?  I tried to find online and was unsuccessful.  

2 minutes ago, Cleburger said:

 

Anyone hear anything from this presser?  I tried to find online and was unsuccessful.  

https://www.cleveland19.com/2020/02/06/sherwin-williams-plans-build-global-headquarters-downtown-cleveland/

Michelle Jarboe live-tweeted from it but she stopped after just three tweets when it became apparent the mayor wasn't providing much new information. It was just a show presser.

13 minutes ago, Florida Guy said:

https://www.cleveland19.com/2020/02/06/sherwin-williams-plans-build-global-headquarters-downtown-cleveland/

 

Thanks you!   Here is the video for those interested: 

 

 

Mayor Jackson is hard to listen to..  that was a chore

Thanks for taking on that chore for the rest of us. Did he say anything interesting?

 

One of Jarboe's tweets said Jackson expects most of the growth to happen in Brecksville facility. That would be a bunch of crap if true.

2 minutes ago, Mendo said:

One of Jarboe's tweets said Jackson expects most of the growth to happen in Brecksville facility. That would be a bunch of crap if true.

 

Yes Jackson said they were unable to come up with a suitable site based on "future needs" of expansion at the R&D facility.   According to the mayor Sherwin Williams wanted a site for that with plenty of room to grow.  

8 minutes ago, G00pie said:

Mayor Jackson is hard to listen to..  that was a chore

No it wasn’t. What was hard was Dan Deross’s (sp?) ass continuing to interrupt the press conference. I didn’t tune in to hear him 

11 minutes ago, Mendo said:

Thanks for taking on that chore for the rest of us. Did he say anything interesting?

 

One of Jarboe's tweets said Jackson expects most of the growth to happen in Brecksville facility. That would be a bunch of crap if true.

yep thats exactly what he said!  thats the frustrating part of all this.

1 minute ago, G00pie said:

yep thats exactly what he said!  thats the frustrating part of all this.

He also said essentially that if they were both going to be in Cleveland they wanted them together. Once they saw that there wasn’t enough land downtown for the HQ and the R&D together, they weren’t going to keep it anywhere else in the city. They took the Brecksville deal instead. I hate that it happened but we can’t let perfect be the enemy of good 

Hopefully I'm in the right thread for this, but I'm wondering if S-W gobbling up the PS and Weston lots starts a mini-land rush downtown.  There are only so many more parking lots left to build on in the CBD and we know the Justice Center steering committee is likely to announce the future of the JC sometime later this year.  From what many have been saying, it sounds increasingly likely that the county will opt to build a new Court tower while maintaining current operations at Lakeside & Ontario during construction.  

 

Best case scenario is that by this time next year, S-W starts construction on PS/Weston, the county buys the remaining lots between St. Clair, W. 3rd, and W.6th Streets for the new Courthouse tower, and a bidding war heats up between buyers for the existing JC site next to the Hilton.  At that point, the only real "empty" part of DT is the parking lot between East 4th and RMFH (Nucleus) and the old Hippodrome on Euclid Ave. (City Club apartments).  With everything filled, maybe the air rights for that triangular parcel in the TT complex at the W. 6th/Superior/W. Superior finally comes into play as well?

 

EDIT:  I went back and looked at the internal SW maps as well as KJP's blog posts, and realized that the HQ will take up much more of the surface area between St. Clair, Superior, W. 3rd, and W. 6th than I imagined.  For some reason, I thought SW's footprint wouldn't extend all the way to St. Clair.  I don't think the hypothetical new Justice Center courthouse tower would even fit in the Warehouse District post-SW.  All the more reason for a land rush downtown, I guess :).

Edited February 7, 20205 yr by Down_with_Ctown

5 minutes ago, inlovewithCLE said:

He also said essentially that if they were both going to be in Cleveland they wanted them together. Once they saw that there wasn’t enough land downtown for the HQ and the R&D together, they weren’t going to keep it anywhere else in the city. They took the Brecksville deal instead. I hate that it happened but we can’t let perfect be the enemy of good 

 

I don't get that. 7 acres of downtown real estate could accommodate millions of square feet of structure without breaking a sweat. It's a massive amount of space. The Jacobs lot alone is about 50,000 sq ft. You could build the entire 1 million sq ft HQ on just the Jacobs lot with a 25 story building. Why do they need that much space unless they are expecting significant growth downtown as well? Unless they plan to just fill in the entire superblock with low rise buildings and pointless plazas.

John Boyd has spoken:

 

 

^Wht f@cking spin!  It's big news that a company DIDN'T leave Cleveland.

 

What would Sherwin Williams do without the heightened profile that Atlanta would bring? Maybe someday they'll become a household name from little ol' CLE.

Somebody should tell him how much of a clown he is

47 minutes ago, Mendo said:

 

I don't get that. 7 acres of downtown real estate could accommodate millions of square feet of structure without breaking a sweat. It's a massive amount of space. The Jacobs lot alone is about 50,000 sq ft. You could build the entire 1 million sq ft HQ on just the Jacobs lot with a 25 story building. Why do they need that much space unless they are expecting significant growth downtown as well? Unless they plan to just fill in the entire superblock with low rise buildings and pointless plazas.

The problem was that SHW only wants low raise R&D buildings of 4-6 stories each and because of that there's not enough land on the Weston lots.  Especially when they also have to provide ALOT OF PARKING for some of their employees and visitors too.  And they also want plenty of space to add more offices and parking as they grow in the future.  BUT there will be some taller office towers on the Weston lots for general office and parking and there by save SHW a lot of money instead of building just one supertall tower on the Jacobs lot.

Edited February 6, 20205 yr by Larry1962

It sucks it's not in Cleveland, but it also helps with the idea of a waterfront permanent easement/boardwalk along the river type deal. I know people have commented how it doesn't need to be Ft. Knox, but I have a feeling their Brecksville facilities won't be too welcoming to outsiders outside of the hotel/possible Pinecresty element?

 

I'm happy that taxes stay in the county, again, it sucks that it's going where it is. Maybe this facilitates some more bus service from DT to out there among other regional benefits. 

I am glad to see that SHW will stay in Cleveland. Like it was said earlier, that would have been devistated if they were to located out of state. I think this a winner for cleveland and the state of Ohio.

59 minutes ago, Mendo said:

 

I don't get that. 7 acres of downtown real estate could accommodate millions of square feet of structure without breaking a sweat. It's a massive amount of space. The Jacobs lot alone is about 50,000 sq ft. You could build the entire 1 million sq ft HQ on just the Jacobs lot with a 25 story building. Why do they need that much space unless they are expecting significant growth downtown as well? Unless they plan to just fill in the entire superblock with low rise buildings and pointless plazas.

I don’t think they wanted to do too much vertically. They don’t want to do supertalls from everything we’ve heard. The corporate model for headquarters these days are a bunch of low rises and/or mid rises with room for growth

52 minutes ago, inlovewithCLE said:

I don’t think they wanted to do too much vertically. They don’t want to do supertalls from everything we’ve heard. The corporate model for headquarters these days are a bunch of low rises and/or mid rises with room for growth

Especially if they liked/were basing ideas on Goodyear....

 

Edit: not Eaton, thanks @KJP

Edited February 6, 20205 yr by GISguy

The CEO liked Goodyear but didn't like Eaton.

 

 

Edited February 6, 20205 yr by KJP

So R&D is going to Brecksville and the office HQ's will be on Jacobs and Weston super block? 

4 minutes ago, Mildtraumatic said:

So R&D is going to Brecksville and the office HQ's will be on Jacobs and Weston super block? 

YES

Just now, Larry1962 said:

YES

When you think  of the alternatives I'm celebrating! ?

Overall I think it's REALLY GREAT for the City of Cleveland with them retaining the HQ plus with the consolidation of most of the training at the HQ (which will really help the hotels) plus with the strong growth of SHW plus the additional developments that will be built DOWNTOWN because of the massive new investments that SHW will be doing in DOWNTOWN CLEVELAND over the next ten years that it will actually more then make up for the 300+ R&D jobs that we are losing to Brecksville. 

 

Plus it will help CLE get the business type of international air service to Europe that will make CLEVELAND that more attractive to other companies considering locating their National and Regional HQ in the Cleveland area.  

This massing was on 3News, so I am not sure where it came from, or if it's been posted before.

^I don't like the utlra-low turquoise massing. I hope that's not accurate of whats to come. Also, I hope there's retail along that long wall on W6.

Obviously, it depends on how it’s designed, but I don’t necessarily dislike that kind of massing there. Fits well with the opposite blocks across St Clair and W 6th

5 minutes ago, TPH2 said:

Obviously, it depends on how it’s designed, but I don’t necessarily dislike that kind of massing there. Fits well with the opposite blocks across St Clair and W 6th

As long as that turquoise block is not the parking garage lol.

^OK---i guess it matches the west side of w.6 in terms of height, though the portion facing Superior should certainly be higher to match bldg heights (to the red bldg and the Rockefeller bldg). Retail along w. 6 is key.

 

If you base this solely on height, it makes sense.  Tallest should be Public Sq and then scale down from there to meet the Warehouse District.  This has the potential to be incredibly transformative and truly connect what feels like two parts of downtown... to me it always feels like from Playhouse Sq to Public Sq is one section, and then the Warehouse District/FEB feels like another.  And really the only separation is the mental impact of walking through parking lots.  I hope and pray they do a nice job of creating a pedestrian friendly, inviting connection!

I don't know where that massing came from either, but it does make sense based on what SHW wants to build there (ie: 1+ million square feet, not supertall, big parking deck hopefully wrapped with mixed use, etc.). And if that's a legit massing, perhaps the center part of that parking deck could be built to accommodate an office building on top of it.

 

BTW, it also doesn't show 1350 West 3rd -- the former Stark HQ. I have to wonder if that building is long for this world.

I know the massing shown is preliminary and may not look anything like the final project, but...

 

You can kind of estimate the height of the main tower by comparing it to 55 PS next door.  That building is 22 stories and about 300' tall.  From the massing above the main tower looks to be much taller.  Maybe 35-40 stories and 450-500'?

8 hours ago, freethink said:

This massing was on 3News, so I am not sure where it came from, or if it's been posted before.

The creator of this should take a class with @Geowizical

14 hours ago, Mendo said:

What would Sherwin Williams do without the heightened profile that Atlanta would bring? Maybe someday they'll become a household name from little ol' CLE.

 

Not even Atlanta......Cobb County.

14 hours ago, inlovewithCLE said:

Somebody should tell him how much of a clown he is

 

I already did on Twitter LOL.   

 

But seriously, the guy's business is relocation.  Personally I consider that on a level with downsizing consultants. but if someone was moving from Atlanta to Cleveland he'd be pushing for that account too.

13 hours ago, Larry1962 said:

Overall I think it's REALLY GREAT for the City of Cleveland with them retaining the HQ plus with the consolidation of most of the training at the HQ (which will really help the hotels) plus with the strong growth of SHW plus the additional developments that will be built DOWNTOWN because of the massive new investments that SHW will be doing in DOWNTOWN CLEVELAND over the next ten years that it will actually more then make up for the 300+ R&D jobs that we are losing to Brecksville. 

 

Plus it will help CLE get the business type of international air service to Europe that will make CLEVELAND that more attractive to other companies considering locating their National and Regional HQ in the Cleveland area.  

 

The R&D is going adjacent to Lubrizol's.   That may be enough for a critical mass of sorts that will bring in another major one, perhaps from outside the region.   That third would definitely establish said critical mass.

 

Parker Hannifin's are spread all over the world.  Likewise Eaton's.   Hmmm......

I wouldn't be surprised and would be very happy if Sherwin Built their parking garage similar to 515 Euclid. Have retail usage at the bottom but have the garage be able to be built upon for future expansion.

^ it will be up to city planning to insist on these things.  At the minimum retail should go on first floor of parking structures.  

Or the big Cleveland Clinic garage on Euclid that has offices fronting the Euclid side. 

^ Perfect place for a SW flagship retail store.

33 minutes ago, mack34 said:

Or the big Cleveland Clinic garage on Euclid that has offices fronting the Euclid side. 

 

And also has a huge wall of parking facing the side street...  Which is by far my biggest fear here. 

 

42 minutes ago, freefourur said:

^ it will be up to city planning to insist on these things.  At the minimum retail should go on first floor of parking structures.  

I just hope that the city planning doesn't get scared to make recommendations in fear of upsetting their biggest corporate company. 

7 minutes ago, StapHanger said:

 

And also has a huge wall of parking facing the side street...  Which is by far my biggest fear here. 

 

I thought the city had passed an ordinance prohibiting parking from fronting the street in any new developments.

^If local government held the cards here, we wouldn't be waiting today for details about the massive public subsidies going into this project.

 

EDIT: there's a decent chance the design will masterfully hide the parking, so I don't mean to sound so negative. 

Edited February 7, 20205 yr by StapHanger

4 minutes ago, htsfan said:

I thought the city had passed an ordinance prohibiting parking from fronting the street in any new developments.

 

The megablock in the Warehouse District is the first "Urban Core" overlay district that was passed by City Council a few years ago. You can read the zoning requirements here: http://library.amlegal.com/nxt/gateway.dll/Ohio/cleveland_oh/partthreelandusecode/partiiiblandusecode-zoningcode/titleviizoningcode/chapter348-formdistricts?f=templates$fn=default.htm$3.0$vid=amlegal:cleveland_oh$anc=JD_348.05

 

I assume they would need to get a variance if they weren't able to abide by any of these.

 

Edit: The link seems to not work. I'll just link to an old tweet of mine that has images of the code:

 

Edited February 7, 20205 yr by TPH2

57 minutes ago, Florida Guy said:

^ Perfect place for a SW flagship retail store.

...especially with all of the new apartments going in downtown.

14 minutes ago, TPH2 said:

 

The megablock in the Warehouse District is the first "Urban Core" overlay district that was passed by City Council a few years ago. You can read the zoning requirements here: http://library.amlegal.com/nxt/gateway.dll/Ohio/cleveland_oh/partthreelandusecode/partiiiblandusecode-zoningcode/titleviizoningcode/chapter348-formdistricts?f=templates$fn=default.htm$3.0$vid=amlegal:cleveland_oh$anc=JD_348.05

 

I assume they would need to get a variance if they weren't able to abide by any of these.

 

Edit: The link seems to not work. I'll just link to an old tweet of mine that has images of the code:

 

So that would mean if SHW wants to build on the lots that they have to get variances if they don't want to include retail?

14 hours ago, Potamus said:

I know the massing shown is preliminary and may not look anything like the final project, but...

You can kind of estimate the height of the main tower by comparing it to 55 PS next door.  That building is 22 stories and about 300' tall.  From the massing above the main tower looks to be much taller.  Maybe 35-40 stories and 450-500'?

 

Good eye.  I was looking at that too, but it looks to me like the main tower is in the 550-600' range, which had me surprised and excited.  It also looks like the Yellow & Red buildings are in the 250-350' range. I know it could be all smoke, but hopefully that lot get's something grand.

 

Also, I Really hope the city sticks to it's zoning requirements for street frontages with this whole development!  That's a major entry point into Downtown that has had parking craters for too long, it would be terrible to go from that to inactive walls or parking when it's finally developed.

 

I'm hoping for and expecting that best in both of these situations!!!

Edited February 7, 20205 yr by NR