February 20, 20205 yr 10 minutes ago, freefourur said: Cleveland’s incentive package to Sherwin-Williams would commit millions to secure Fortune 500 company for generations https://www.cleveland.com/cityhall/2020/02/clevelands-incentive-package-to-sherwin-williams-would-commit-millions-to-secure-fortune-500-company-for-generations.html This makes so much more sense than Brecksville's offer. It doesn't seem like that big of a kick in the pants (especially with schools receiving their tax dollars), and just makes sense.
February 20, 20205 yr Overall it seems pretty reasonable, at least compared to what Brecksville gave up for just a fraction of the jobs.
February 20, 20205 yr 59 minutes ago, freefourur said: Cleveland’s incentive package to Sherwin-Williams would commit millions to secure Fortune 500 company for generations https://www.cleveland.com/cityhall/2020/02/clevelands-incentive-package-to-sherwin-williams-would-commit-millions-to-secure-fortune-500-company-for-generations.html “More importantly, the company said it was committed to building a new headquarters on Public Square. That building is expected to be completed by 2025.“ Did I miss something? I thought the plan was for S-W to be in the new HQ before the end of 2023.
February 20, 20205 yr 3 minutes ago, Sapper Daddy said: “More importantly, the company said it was committed to building a new headquarters on Public Square. That building is expected to be completed by 2025.“ Did I miss something? I thought the plan was for S-W to be in the new HQ before the end of 2023. That was at the earliest.
February 20, 20205 yr 4 minutes ago, Sapper Daddy said: “More importantly, the company said it was committed to building a new headquarters on Public Square. That building is expected to be completed by 2025.“ Did I miss something? I thought the plan was for S-W to be in the new HQ before the end of 2023. They would want their legislation to have the latest possible date so that they don;t risk losing the incentive.
February 20, 20205 yr We're all excited for retaining SW. Is it me, or does the number for the HQ cost, continue to shrink? I thought the original cost for the combination (R&D and HQ) was $1B, then the last number was $600M for HQ, now we're at $300M. Edited February 20, 20205 yr by Frmr CLEder
February 20, 20205 yr The $600 million in the articles a couple weeks ago was total investment for the Brecksville and downtown sites. I agree though the numbers still seem off. The cleveland.com article about the Brecksville incentives called it a $250 million project. Maybe that includes a bunch of infrastructure spending not needed downtown. Still $300 million for 1 million sqft of office space? Even the PNC tower in Pittsburgh built almost 10 years ago cost more and has less total square footage (800k)
February 20, 20205 yr 47 minutes ago, Sapper Daddy said: “More importantly, the company said it was committed to building a new headquarters on Public Square. That building is expected to be completed by 2025.“ Did I miss something? I thought the plan was for S-W to be in the new HQ before the end of 2023. Given the scale, I think it will be more than 3 years from ground breaking to ribbon cutting, right?
February 20, 20205 yr 35 minutes ago, YABO713 said: Given the scale, I think it will be more than 3 years from ground breaking to ribbon cutting, right? Seems right, but I could see the incentives being finalized within a few months and plans being finalized by summer’s end. I would think that would put us in the ballpark for a Q4 ground breaking (I could be wrong but just the impression I’ve been under). 1 hour ago, Frmr CLEder said: We're all excited for retaining SW. Is it me, or does the number for the HQ cost, continue to shrink? I thought the original cost for the combination (R&D and HQ) was $1B, then the last number was $600M for HQ, now we're at $300M. I don’t see the build being very tall which should help drive down cost.
February 20, 20205 yr "The on-site investment is anticipated to be over $300,000,000 and consist of a 1,000,000+ SF Class-A office facility"
February 20, 20205 yr 1 hour ago, Mendo said: Still $300 million for 1 million sqft of office space? Even the PNC tower in Pittsburgh built almost 10 years ago cost more and has less total square footage (800k) Semantics but PNC Tower was completed when I was still living down there (2016ish). I want to say it's also LEED Gold Certified, so that probably also added a good amount of money to the overall costs.
February 20, 20205 yr 2 hours ago, Mendo said: The $600 million in the articles a couple weeks ago was total investment for the Brecksville and downtown sites. I agree though the numbers still seem off. The cleveland.com article about the Brecksville incentives called it a $250 million project. Maybe that includes a bunch of infrastructure spending not needed downtown. Still $300 million for 1 million sqft of office space? Even the PNC tower in Pittsburgh built almost 10 years ago cost more and has less total square footage (800k) Wasn't this ($300M) about the cost of the Hilton?
February 20, 20205 yr Cleveland.com had reported the Lumen as a $135 million dollar project (just as another frame of reference.) Edited February 20, 20205 yr by CleveFan
February 20, 20205 yr Author 28 minutes ago, Frmr CLEder said: Wasn't this ($300M) about the cost of the Hilton? Close...$272 million "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 20, 20205 yr ^ Would the $300 million be for the tower, or the tower and the superblock combined?
February 20, 20205 yr 3 hours ago, Mendo said: The $600 million in the articles a couple weeks ago was total investment for the Brecksville and downtown sites. I agree though the numbers still seem off. The cleveland.com article about the Brecksville incentives called it a $250 million project Still $300 million for 1 million sqft of office space? Even the PNC tower in Pittsburgh built almost 10 years ago cost more and has less total square footage (800k) Exactly - Pittsburgh’s PNC Tower, begun around 2011 - an 800,000 sq feet project - was $400 million. In 2020, that represents $450 million dollars - so I too am a little confused about a $300 million dollar figure for SWHQ at 1,000,000 square feet. I hope not, but maybe the “tower” is going to be significantly under 30 stories
February 20, 20205 yr We don't know the exact cost yet, so don't get too hung up on the $$$ figure. The actual quote said over 300M. Edited February 21, 20205 yr by Clefan98
February 26, 20205 yr after almost 100 pages here, ha, i put a thread up for this development on ssp proposals, if anyone wants to jump in. people are impressed and happy for cle.
February 26, 20205 yr Author 2 hours ago, mrnyc said: after almost 100 pages here, ha, i put a thread up for this development on ssp proposals, if anyone wants to jump in. people are impressed and happy for cle. There's so much more to learn about this proposal. It won't be fully known for as much as five years from now. And that doesn't include the huge spin-off development potential. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 27, 20205 yr 5 hours ago, mrnyc said: after almost 100 pages here, ha, i put a thread up for this development on ssp proposals, if anyone wants to jump in. people are impressed and happy for cle. Forgive me, but ssp proposals?
February 27, 20205 yr 2 minutes ago, ExPatClevGuy said: Forgive me, but ssp proposals? http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=241935
February 27, 20205 yr 6 hours ago, mrnyc said: after almost 100 pages here, ha, i put a thread up for this development on ssp proposals, if anyone wants to jump in. people are impressed and happy for cle. 41 minutes ago, ExPatClevGuy said: Forgive me, but ssp proposals? He forgot to follow the Acronyms Seriously Suck rule. When is the last time I-71 turned a profit?
February 27, 20205 yr 23 minutes ago, Boomerang_Brian said: He forgot to follow the Acronyms Seriously Suck rule. Foster understanding. Choose kind shortenings helping imbue tacitness. Because it tells clear hints. --- Cleveland doesn't seem to often be a subject of discourse on Sky Scraper Page, and although we are still awaiting renderings or more official embodiments of the plans, I am (somewhat) surprised it took so long to get posted there. --- And staying even more on topic, we have seen news articles about incentives from Cleveland, Brecksville, and Cuyahoga County, but has there been any update on the State's contributions and those of JobsOhio as well if those are separate?
February 27, 20205 yr Author 6 minutes ago, marty15 said: When you can sense desperation from your suitor...... Funny, lotsa hotels and conference spaces downtown... 2 minutes ago, cfdwarrior said: ^ That could have been an awesome HQ/Hotel tower with R&D one block away...sigh Please wait to see what happens next. I keep saying that you shouldn't judge this HQ project/spinoffs until about five years from now. And some of it much sooner. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 27, 20205 yr 2 hours ago, KJP said: Please wait to see what happens next. I keep saying that you shouldn't judge this HQ project/spinoffs until about five years from now. And some of it much sooner. POSSIBLE SHW HQ project spinoffs in the Warehouse District and Public Square areas: Two apartment towers One office tower Several new to market restaurants and retailers This is what I'm hearing from several contacts in the CRE and Construction business. NO GUARANTEES. Most of them are in the early stages of development. And hopefully at least half of these proposed projects will be built... Time will tell.
February 27, 20205 yr Larry, you know I gotta ask...any word on the height/Sq. Feet of the office and apt. towers? A bit upthread you really had the pulse on how SW’s main tower was going to be built first with staging on the Weston lots. Edited February 27, 20205 yr by Silent Matt
February 27, 20205 yr 10 hours ago, Silent Matt said: Larry, you know I gotta ask...any word on the height/Sq. Feet of the office and apt. towers? A bit upthread you really had the pulse on how SW’s main tower was going to be built first with staging on the Weston lots. The proposed apartment and office towers are in the 20-30+ story range and approximately 300,000-500,000+ sq. ft. These are in the early stages of development and so a lot of the specs may change and some may not even be built. And some of them will require additional partnerships to provide the required financial backing that these large projects require to be built in a relatively low rent area. Of course IF the proposed Ohio TMUD tax credit law is passed that will be very helpful too! Edited February 27, 20205 yr by Larry1962 Typos and more details
February 27, 20205 yr Author 7 hours ago, Larry1962 said: POSSIBLE SHW HQ project spinoffs in the Warehouse District and Public Square areas: Two apartment towers One office tower Several new to market restaurants and retailers This is what I'm hearing from several contacts in the CRE and Construction business. NO GUARANTEES. Most of them are in the early stages of development. And hopefully at least half of these proposed projects will be built... Time will tell. Yes. That's some of it. Although I'm not familiar with who is pursuing the apartment towers. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 27, 20205 yr What is the (approximate / rumored) timeline for some of this? Waiting solely on the decision by SW to stay and build on Public Square? Or waiting for construction to actually begin or even be completed? Edited February 27, 20205 yr by mrclifton88
February 27, 20205 yr JFC, I'm excited! Even if it takes 10 years to pan out our parking lot crater filled downtown is hopefully a thing of the past! It really seems like the incentive packages will really pay off (at least in Cleveland vs Brecksville). I'm really looking forward to the progress of this- just knowing it's going to get built is an amazing feeling unlike some other projects that keep getting dangled out there (*cough cough* NuCLEus).
February 27, 20205 yr Author 2 hours ago, mrclifton88 said: What is the (approximate / rumored) timeline for some of this? Waiting solely on the decision by SW to stay and build on Public Square? Or waiting for construction to actually begin or even be completed? I would think you'll hear some details about some of this stuff before spring turns to summer. More might be nailed down and become public by the end of the year. As for SHW's HQ facilities, the full scale of it might not be known for 4-5 years. But we'll probably get renderings by later summer or fall on the first phase of SHW's HQ. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 27, 20205 yr 5 hours ago, mrclifton88 said: What is the (approximate / rumored) timeline for some of this? Waiting solely on the decision by SW to stay and build on Public Square? Or waiting for construction to actually begin or even be completed? Some details and renderings about some of the projects that actually move forward might become public by late summer or maybe by the end of the year. Plus I know that KJP and some other well connected UO members know A LOT MORE THAN I DO... Edited February 27, 20205 yr by Larry1962 Typos
February 27, 20205 yr 36 minutes ago, Larry1962 said: Some details and renderings about some of the projects that actually move forward might become public by late summer or maybe by the end of the year. Plus I know that KJP and some other well connected UO members know A LOT MORE THEN I DO... I wish I was connected..
February 28, 20205 yr On 2/26/2020 at 7:47 PM, Boomerang_Brian said: He forgot to follow the Acronyms Seriously Suck rule. lol -- worse i assumed everyone on here is already on skyscaperpages and skyscrapercity.
February 28, 20205 yr On 2/26/2020 at 8:15 PM, infrafreak said: Cleveland doesn't seem to often be a subject of discourse on Sky Scraper Page, and although we are still awaiting renderings or more official embodiments of the plans, I am (somewhat) surprised it took so long to get posted there. exactly. i was very surprised. it was long overdue.
February 28, 20205 yr 1 hour ago, mrnyc said: lol -- worse i assumed everyone on here is already on skyscaperpages and skyscrapercity. That’s the thing - I was aware of skyscraper page and I still didn’t know what you were talking about. (I even googled “ssp” and “ssp Sherwin” with no luck.) I was glad @ExPatClevGuy asked for clarification. And I appreciated reading through the comments over there once @infrafreak posted the link above. Thank you for starting that thread. It was interesting to see them go through the same up and downs over the course of 20 some comments as we’ve gone through over hundreds of comments. Edited February 28, 20205 yr by Boomerang_Brian Added my google attempt When is the last time I-71 turned a profit?
February 28, 20205 yr On 2/8/2020 at 8:22 AM, freethink said: Sherwin-Williams HQ Is Not Coming To DFW https://www.bisnow.com/dallas-ft-worth/news/office/sherwin-williams-hq-is-not-coming-to-dfw-102880#ath Getting a little bit of an entitled mindset in the Metroplex, aren't they? ? The reason is mentioned in passing: they are picking up a lot of businesses sick of San Francisco's ways. What's interesting is even I would think those places would go to Austin, not Dallas.
February 28, 20205 yr 33 minutes ago, Boomerang_Brian said: That’s the thing - I was aware of skyscraper page and I still didn’t know what you were talking about. I was glad @ExPatClevGuy asked for clarification. And I appreciated reading through the comments over there once @infrafreak posted the link above. Thank you for starting that thread. It was interesting to see them go through the same up and downs over the course of 20 some comments as we’ve gone through over hundreds of comments. LOL I am pretty sure I found out about this place from the Skyscraper Page, though it may have been Greedwatch/Bernie's Insiders/Orange and Brown Report.....
February 28, 20205 yr I was maintaining the Cleveland development thread at the skyscraperpage.com forum for almost two decades but eventually the site's management let everything go to h#ll (trolls, site security, updating the software, etc.). So I decided if they aren't going to invest in the forum, I'm not going to bother spending my time there. It's still a good resource for other cities but for Cleveland, the most current info is here on UrbanOhio. Back on topic, please! ? clevelandskyscrapers.com Cleveland Skyscrapers on Instagram
February 28, 20205 yr On 2/26/2020 at 11:59 PM, Larry1962 said: POSSIBLE SHW HQ project spinoffs in the Warehouse District and Public Square areas: Two apartment towers One office tower Several new to market restaurants and retailers This is what I'm hearing from several contacts in the CRE and Construction business. NO GUARANTEES. Most of them are in the early stages of development. And hopefully at least half of these proposed projects will be built... Time will tell. I am happy but before i get excited i want to see Nucleus & 925 break ground.. KJP is anything happening in C-Bus since you last updated us on SB39
February 28, 20205 yr Robert Higgs was on yesterday’s This Week in the CLE podcast and he said a lot of people downtown are worried about parking now that the PS/Weston surface lots are spoken for. He said that the GCP is starting work behind the scenes on a parking deck somewhere close to the CBD. That’s the first I’ve heard about new parking outside the development itself. County Councilwoman Sunny Simon has also raised concerns about parking in public hearings. Now, I know Sherwin Williams has its own plans for structured parking in the Weston Superblock. But I’m guessing that they’re only concerned with securing enough parking for their own employees, which is understandable. So this hypothetical new parking garage would be for the rest of us downtown. It will be interesting to see the size and scope of the project if/when it comes to fruition. The bigger it is, the more bullish leaders will be on the future of downtown Cleveland, I guess.
February 28, 20205 yr 34 minutes ago, Down_with_Ctown said: Robert Higgs was on yesterday’s This Week in the CLE podcast and he said a lot of people downtown are worried about parking now that the PS/Weston surface lots are spoken for. He said that the GCP is starting work behind the scenes on a parking deck somewhere close to the CBD. That’s the first I’ve heard about new parking outside the development itself. County Councilwoman Sunny Simon has also raised concerns about parking in public hearings. Now, I know Sherwin Williams has its own plans for structured parking in the Weston Superblock. But I’m guessing that they’re only concerned with securing enough parking for their own employees, which is understandable. So this hypothetical new parking garage would be for the rest of us downtown. It will be interesting to see the size and scope of the project if/when it comes to fruition. The bigger it is, the more bullish leaders will be on the future of downtown Cleveland, I guess. Hopefully any said parking would be built with ground level retail and the ability to construct office/residential on top!
February 28, 20205 yr 49 minutes ago, Cleburger said: Hopefully any said parking would be built with ground level retail and the ability to construct office/residential on top! Anyone have an idea as to how the zoning/overlays downtown would potentially affect the parking garage designs? Edited February 28, 20205 yr by surfohio
February 28, 20205 yr If only there was a thing like public transit to get people in and out of the city ?. Parking in the CBD shouldn't be convenient or cheap - two things that are so annoying about Cleveland.
February 28, 20205 yr Author 2 hours ago, simplythis said: I am happy but before i get excited i want to see Nucleus & 925 break ground.. KJP is anything happening in C-Bus since you last updated us on SB39 Nothing new to report. All sources are quiet. They may be waiting until after the primary. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 28, 20205 yr 59 minutes ago, surfohio said: Anyone have an idea as to how the zoning/overlays downtown would potentially affect the parking garage designs? Here is the Urban Core Overlay zoning ordinance (of which the Warehouse District superblock is part)
February 28, 20205 yr 1 hour ago, GISguy said: If only there was a thing like public transit to get people in and out of the city ?. Parking in the CBD shouldn't be convenient or cheap - two things that are so annoying about Cleveland. It better be if you want people in the area to come downtown. This is an auto centric area, like it or not.
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