11 minutes ago, inlovewithCLE said:

It better be if you want people in the area to come downtown. This is an auto centric area, like it or not. 

 

It is because we've made it that way. And it can and should be unmade.

I agree.  Convenient or cheap is not a problem.  Convenient and cheap is not good. 

14 minutes ago, Mendo said:

 

It is because we've made it that way. And it can and should be unmade.

Good luck with that. The region just isn’t like that. Too much sprawl, not enough people. That’s not to say that we can’t get more people to use transit if the system was improved. I think we could. But the way NOT to do it is to deliberately price people out of parking downtown. Not only will that not love people onto public transportation, that’ll cause people to skip downtown altogether. 

2 hours ago, TPH2 said:

 

Here is the Urban Core Overlay zoning ordinance (of which the Warehouse District superblock is part) 

 

Thanks. The language re: parking garages looks good to me. Do you know what the pink-blue-red-green areas signify? 

Suburbanites have their Solon and North Olmsted strip malls and ample free parking. Whenever I go to a major city I always expect parking to be a major pain and plan accordingly. There's no need for us to build a multi-million dollar parking garage that will NEVER be paid for no matter how many people park there vs investing in a transit system, rail, etc.

 

NEO really needs to get over their fetishization of ample parking and convenient drive times. The bus and rail (and active transpo) should always be faster than driving, ODOT just has their priorities all messed up.

 

And to further derail this, people in all of the food groups here complain about WSM parking despite that lot never being full, like, ever. The resurfacing also added spaces, yet people still complain.

 

People here will always complain about parking no matter how ample it is, or the fact it might be a block from their destination. 

 

Also, don't get me started on free weekend parking...

Edited February 28, 20205 yr by GISguy

47 minutes ago, GISguy said:

Suburbanites have their Solon and North Olmsted strip malls and ample free parking. Whenever I go to a major city I always expect parking to be a major pain and plan accordingly. There's no need for us to build a multi-million dollar parking garage that will NEVER be paid for no matter how many people park there vs investing in a transit system, rail, etc.

 

NEO really needs to get over their fetishization of ample parking and convenient drive times. The bus and rail (and active transpo) should always be faster than driving, ODOT just has their priorities all messed up.

 

And to further derail this, people in all of the food groups here complain about WSM parking despite that lot never being full, like, ever. The resurfacing also added spaces, yet people still complain.

 

People here will always complain about parking no matter how ample it is, or the fact it might be a block from their destination. 

 

Also, don't get me started on free weekend parking...

It’s not just suburbanites. It’s Clevelanders too. I’m an African American Cleveland lifer, born and raised. And like I’ve said before on this forum, black folks don’t like catching the bus either. It still has a huge stigma attached to it in our community. We want ample parking too. Not just suburbanites. That’s the nature of NEO

On 1/28/2020 at 9:59 AM, KJP said:

Low trucks (like the one in the Google Streetview) can fit under the Canal Road underpass below the RTA tracks but larger trucks cannot. It has only a 14-foot overhead clearance. At some point, RTA and the city are going to have to make a decision on whether to rebuild that wretched underpass or fill it in.

 

A "standard height" semi tractor trailer is 13'6", so technically almost all can fit under that bridge. 

7 hours ago, GISguy said:

If only there was a thing like public transit to get people in and out of the city ?. Parking in the CBD shouldn't be convenient or cheap - two things that are so annoying about Cleveland.

There is basically a parking garage on every downtown block. These people honestly amaze me with their obsession with surface lots, as if downtown is Great Lakes Mall. I would not know how they would survive if they lived in denser city, with a more robust public light rail transit system.

If anything the SW development will be a net addition of parking to downtown. The garages they build there are going to be more than what is there currently, and its going to free up an equal number of spots tied to their current hq that they no longer will be using. A shame people will walk an extra block though...

22 hours ago, MayDay said:

I was maintaining the Cleveland development thread at the skyscraperpage.com forum for almost two decades but eventually the site's management let everything go to h#ll (trolls, site security, updating the software, etc.). So I decided if they aren't going to invest in the forum, I'm not going to bother spending my time there. It's still a good resource for other cities but for Cleveland, the most current info is here on UrbanOhio.

 

Back on topic, please! ?

 

 

yeah they have had their ups and downs on those sites too for sure.

 

they are still a great place for other people to find out about cleveland tho. when it lacks i would just tend to steer people here to uo if they are interested in more details or more current news.

18 hours ago, KJP said:

 

Nothing new to report. All sources are quiet. They may be waiting until after the primary.

 

Several sources responded after I posted that. So I will have an update this weekend and I'll post it in the nuCLEus thread.

3 hours ago, KJP said:

 

Several sources responded after I posted that. So I will have an update this weekend and I'll post it in the nuCLEus thread.

Thank you as usual for keeping us in the loop.

 

There's this thing called Mass/Public Transit.

 

Mark Muglich, former chairman of the National Parking Association, had an excellent response, "Parking lots are not designed to be forever. They’re part of the economic-development cycle. … Their purpose in life is to become something else.”

Edited March 2, 20205 yr by Frmr CLEder

Articles like this make me glad they dont allow comments anymore ? Glad Michelle has pointed out that no, the parking sky is not falling.

Everyone complains about everything.  People complain about the lack of parking, then a developer decides to make it apart of its infrastructure and people complain because it doesn't look like the Taj Mahal.  Honestly, I could care less if Sherwin Williams added any parking to their HQ as long as it gets built.  This is my sentiment for most of the current and future construction projects downtown.

Like an oncologist complaining that cancer has been cured. Those whiners have no credibility. 

I’d rather have a garage with retail storefronts than a parking lot. But we’re fooling ourselves if we think available parking doesn’t matter in this city.

Some movement on the headquarters property. Mandatory referrals for the TIF, construction grants, and job creation incentives.

 

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/drcagenda/2020/03062020/index.php

 

MANDATORY REFERRALS

• Ordinance No. 285-2020(Ward 3/Councilmember McCormack): Authorizing the Mayor and the Commissioner of Purchases and Supplies to acquire and re-convey properties presently owned by the The Sherwin-Williams Company, or its designee, located at Public Square West and the corner of Superior Avenue and West 6th Street for the purpose of entering into the chain-of-title prior to the adoption of tax increment financing legislation authorized under Section 5709.41 of the Revised Code.
• Ordinance No. 286-2020(Ward 3/Councilmember McCormack): Authorizing the Director of Economic Development to enter into a Tax Increment Financing Agreement with The Sherwin-Williams Company, or its designee, to provide assistance to fund the construction of a new global headquarters to be located at Public Square West and the corner of Superior Avenue and West 6th Street; to provide for payments to the Cleveland Metropolitan School District; and to declare certain improvements to real property to be a public purpose.
• Ordinance No. 284-2020(Ward 3/Councilmember McCormack); Authorizing the Director of Economic Development to enter into a construction grant agreement with The Sherwin-Williams Company, or its designee, to provide economic development assistance to partially finance the construction of a new global headquarters, to be located at Public Square West and the corner of Superior Avenue and West 6th Street; and authorizing any agreements necessary to implement the project.
• Ordinance No. 287-2020(Ward 3/Councilmember McCormack); Authorizing the Director of Economic Development to enter into a Job Creation Incentive Program grant agreement with The Sherwin-Williams Company, or its designee, to facilitate the purpose and provisions of this ordinance.

 

Hello KJP - I've heard varying  numbers (not from you) about the loss/gain of employees from the R&D moving to Brecksville.  The article below says there are 2,980 currently working at the corporate headquarters and another 320 in the R&D location.  If downtown and Brecksville, slit the additional 400 to be consolidated from the burbs, I'm not sure downtown is losing much at all.  In fact, I would suspect there may be a next gain when all is said and done.  Am I missing something?

 

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2019/09/sherwin-williams-looking-for-new-headquarters-company-confirms.html

Edited March 9, 20205 yr by newyorker

1 hour ago, newyorker said:

Hello KJP - I've heard varying  numbers (not from you) about the loss/gain of employees from the R&D moving to Brecksville.  The article below says there are 2,980 currently working at the corporate headquarters and another 320 in the R&D location.  If downtown and Brecksville, slit the additional 400 to be consolidated from the burbs, I'm not sure downtown is losing much at all.  In fact, I would suspect there may be a next gain when all is said and done.  Am I missing something?

 

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2019/09/sherwin-williams-looking-for-new-headquarters-company-confirms.html

 

I think those are good numbers for those two facilities (downtown HQ + R&D). Some of Warrensville's employment is office workers, as SHW's automotive group HQ is there. I've suspected, based on parking lot vehicle counts and square footage of the facility's office building, that the number of office workers at Warrensville is in the low 100s. I'm pretty sure they're all headed downtown.

 

Same thing goes for all of the sales and executive training activities which are done either at Baldwin Wallace or Case Western Reserve classrooms. They are also headed downtown.

 

What we don't yet know is what's going to happen with SHW's Hinckley Parkway office workers. There's at least 200 employees there, and possibly as much as 300. I'm not sure why SHW hasn't said anything about relocating them. Perhaps it might affect some lease or other agreement?

 

We also don't know what's happening with Valspar HQ+R&D staff, which offers at least 400 more employees. And we probably won't know until after the new downtown HQ opens or even later. Given SHW's interior/programming architect Vocon is under contract for five more years, that tells me that SHW could be looking at a multi-phase development approach to its HQ.

Busy morning on Michelle’s Twitter feed.  Anyone have an idea when we may see the first renderings?  Xmas in July maybe?

Edited March 10, 20205 yr by Sapper Daddy

On 9/4/2019 at 4:50 PM, marty15 said:

A pedestrian bridge over Superior could also be a way for them to link back to the TC/Landmark/Ritz/Renaissance parking garage/Rapid Station. I’m sure all the Minneapolis transplants would be cool with it.

Please run with alllll my ideas City of Cle! I beg you ??

Edited March 10, 20205 yr by marty15

I prefer underground vs. above ground.

6 minutes ago, skiwest said:

I prefer underground vs. above ground.

Likewise. Though I’ll take either option if it helps cancel out a monstrous parking garage in the WHD.

2 hours ago, marty15 said:

Likewise. Though I’ll take either option if it helps cancel out a monstrous parking garage in the WHD.

 

There's still going to be a big parking garage. More than 1,000 existing parking lot spaces will be wiped out. If you build parking for just half of SHW's employees and replace the existing spaces, that's 3,000-4,000 spaces in structured parking. Perhaps that will be spread out in two decks but if it's just one deck, it would be bigger (perhaps up to 1/3 larger!) than that 3,000-car, 800,000 sf behemoth Cleveland Clinic built on East 105th between Carnegie and Cedar....

1 hour ago, KJP said:

 

There's still going to be a big parking garage. More than 1,000 existing parking lot spaces will be wiped out. If you build parking for just half of SHW's employees and replace the existing spaces, that's 3,000-4,000 spaces in structured parking. Perhaps that will be spread out in two decks but if it's just one deck, it would be bigger (perhaps up to 1/3 larger!) than that 3,000-car, 800,000 sf behemoth Cleveland Clinic built on East 105th between Carnegie and Cedar....

I get that. Just saying connecting this complex directly to the Rapid and existing parking will help scale it down.

SW incentive package clears first hurdle.

https://www.cleveland.com/cityhall/2020/03/incentive-package-for-sherwin-williams-300m-headquarters-clears-first-hurdle-moves-toward-approval-this-month.html

16 hours ago, KJP said:

 

There's still going to be a big parking garage. More than 1,000 existing parking lot spaces will be wiped out. If you build parking for just half of SHW's employees and replace the existing spaces, that's 3,000-4,000 spaces in structured parking. Perhaps that will be spread out in two decks but if it's just one deck, it would be bigger (perhaps up to 1/3 larger!) than that 3,000-car, 800,000 sf behemoth Cleveland Clinic built on East 105th between Carnegie and Cedar....

 

Completely off topic and an aside, but if you're ever parking here at the clinic, head on up to the roof.  Really amazing views around Cleveland.  

15 hours ago, marty15 said:

I get that. Just saying connecting this complex directly to the Rapid and existing parking will help scale it down.

 

True. In fact, I heard a number yesterday that about 35 percent of SHW employees take RTA to work, which is why we're hearing about SHW wanting some kind of enhanced pedestrian access to Tower City Center, be it a tunnel under Superior, a walkway over Superior, or some kind of enhanced pedestrian crosswalk across Superior. So if they need parking for 65 percent of SHW employees, will the parking under Tower City suffice? Or will they need a deck only to replace the 1,000+ spaces lost to development and perhaps add another 1,000 close by?

 

Also, the parking at Tower City is going to be needed for whatever use takes over the Landmark Building after SHW vacates it. And, as I'd heard during the site search for SHW's HQ+R&D, if Bedrock didn't win over SHW, it would go hard after the new Justice Center courthouse tower which is going to be another whale just as SHW is.

it doesnt sound like there should be any worry about a mega garage like at the clinic, so that is good to hear. as long as they 'pull a chicago,' or should i say pull a beacon, and build over a smaller parking structure all will be well. plus maybe add some small retail at the base like a corner store, dry cleaner or stuff like that, instead of a flat wall with cars peeking out.

53 minutes ago, mrnyc said:

it doesnt sound like there should be any worry about a mega garage like at the clinic, so that is good to hear. as long as they 'pull a chicago,' or should i say pull a beacon, and build over a smaller parking structure all will be well. plus maybe add some small retail at the base like a corner store, dry cleaner or stuff like that, instead of a flat wall with cars peeking out.

I’m less concerned about them building on top of it as I am with them putting storefronts at the base. To me, that’s critical

52 minutes ago, mrnyc said:

...instead of a flat wall with cars peeking out.

Somewhere on here is the zoning overlay that prevents, or at least discourages that from being the case. 

9 minutes ago, surfohio said:

Somewhere on here is the zoning overlay that prevents, or at least discourages that from being the case. 

 

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/zoning/pdf/348_Form_Based_Districts.pdf 

There is also the option of placing a portion of the garage below grade, so it wouldn't be as imposing of a structure.

1 hour ago, mrnyc said:

it doesnt sound like there should be any worry about a mega garage like at the clinic, so that is good to hear. as long as they 'pull a chicago,' or should i say pull a beacon, and build over a smaller parking structure all will be well. plus maybe add some small retail at the base like a corner store, dry cleaner or stuff like that, instead of a flat wall with cars peeking out.

 

I don't expect one to built like that either, with the parking deck exposed to the outside world like the Clinic's garage. But I do expect one (or possibly divided into two separate decks) to be of similar size or possibly even larger. 

17 hours ago, Frmr CLEder said:

SW incentive package clears first hurdle.

https://www.cleveland.com/cityhall/2020/03/incentive-package-for-sherwin-williams-300m-headquarters-clears-first-hurdle-moves-toward-approval-this-month.html

 

*Cleveland Scene punches wall*

This might be better for the WHD thread. But since it's locked and the story is somewhat related to the SHW, I'll post it here......

 

 

WEDNESDAY, MARCH 11, 2020

Legal dispute ends over building at edge of Sherwin-Williams HQ site

 

A legal dispute over a small building at the edge of Sherwin-Williams' (SHW) new headquarters site in downtown Cleveland has been resolved. But the long-term future of the building at 1350 W. 3rd St. remains in question.

The building is at the southwest corner of West 3rd and St. Clair Avenue and is the sole survivor of multiple historic buildings demolished for parking lots over the past 70 years on the so-called "Superblock."

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2020/03/legal-dispute-ends-over-building-at.html

12 minutes ago, TPH2 said:

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/zoning/pdf/348_Form_Based_Districts.pdf 

 

BZA routinely gives variances for all sorts of things. The overlay only goes as far as the City's ability to resist Sherwin Williams.

BTW, I made some updates to the end of my article, above (with more additions to the first article on this subject from February). I also included the first picture below. The others came from the same source: building preservation consultant Steve McQuillin.

 

 

 

Edited March 12, 20205 yr by KJP

Cuyahoga County Council approves $14M Sherwin-Williams incentive package
 

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2020/03/cuyahoga-county-council-approves-14m-sherwin-williams-incentive-package.html

 

Council unanimously approved the $14-million grant during a special meeting held to address the coronavirus and other routine county business ahead of a one-month break for council meetings.

 

Grant money will come from the county’s general fund, economic development fund, and community development fund. In exchange, the Fortune 500 paint and coatings manufacturer committed to keeping the roughly 3,500 jobs it currently has in Cuyahoga County for at least five years.

SW continues to drive earnings as they prepare for HQ development.

Over the last twelve months, ROE was 37%; more than three times the average within their industry.

 

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/sherwin-williams-company-nyse-shw-133522719.html

Edited March 17, 20205 yr by Frmr CLEder

We're going to be in a deep recession by May.  This is going the way of Museum Plaza. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisville_Museum_Plaza

Read my updated article about construction and the Coronavirus in Cleveland. Liquidity isn't a problem, money is cheap, construction costs are dropping with oil prices, and I've yet to run into any Cleveland developer who is shelving much less slowing down their plans to build -- although some are putting work on hold for up to one week to implement social distancing plans for their workforce. In fact, I've learned of three new proposed developments since last week (two of them just yesterday).

 

So stop eating that Skyline Slop and chill.

With so many of us social/physical distancing, it's a great opportunity to spruce things up at home, begin our Spring cleaning. SW may actually be pretty resilient during the coming months.

Edited March 17, 20205 yr by Frmr CLEder

12 hours ago, KJP said:

So stop eating that Skyline Slop and chill.

 

That really sounds like a Cincinnati date night

 

Staying on topic, I was curious of how social distancing would affect construction workers. I'd imagine that to be more extreme for projects during say, interior finishing vs site preparation.

13 hours ago, jmecklenborg said:

We're going to be in a deep recession by May.  This is going the way of Museum Plaza. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisville_Museum_Plaza

 

 

except louisville was a grandiose spec idea with no backing, meanwhile sw hq is fully funded by its owners.

 

so not the slightest bit comparable.

 

which you know and are just trolling.

 

so have a jelly donut -- and since you don't have any jews down there here's a sufganiyot version:

 

 

 

I'm hearing boss are due to the GC for this project in the next few weeks. That must mean there is some sort of basis of design, or more.