9 hours ago, bumsquare said:

That’s not quite true. Society built Society tower pre-merger with Key. Society also acquired AmeriTrust pre merger with Key.

Exactly. Had Society not acquired Ameritrust, that tower would probably be there and we'd be talking about the SW HQ on some other plot of land.

 

 

That said, I know bidding is ongoing for the project, so they'll likely go through the first round of that, go through value engineering and get final bids and by that time we may have a clearer picture as to when we can get back to whatever normal will be after Coronavirus, and put a timeline together for this.

 

THURSDAY, APRIL 9, 2020

Coronavirus crisis casualties in Cleveland real estate

 

...With the SHW HQ+R&D project, CEO John Morikis said in a video and a letter to employees this week that its sales remain solid during the crisis. However, SHW is reducing spending on HQ+R&D consultants to support the company's social distancing and remote staffing activities.

The need for the HQ+R&D remains -- to consolidate employees from multiple locations into fewer facilities -- and SHW staff continue to work on it. So SHW's plan to move into its new HQ+R&D facilities in 2023 also remains intact.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2020/04/coronavirus-crisis-casualties-in.html

2 hours ago, KJP said:

 

THURSDAY, APRIL 9, 2020

Coronavirus crisis casualties in Cleveland real estate

 

...With the SHW HQ+R&D project, CEO John Morikis said in a video and a letter to employees this week that its sales remain solid during the crisis. However, SHW is reducing spending on HQ+R&D consultants to support the company's social distancing and remote staffing activities.

The need for the HQ+R&D remains -- to consolidate employees from multiple locations into fewer facilities -- and SHW staff continue to work on it. So SHW's plan to move into its new HQ+R&D facilities in 2023 also remains intact.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2020/04/coronavirus-crisis-casualties-in.html

 

 

Ken, I'm not expert in building timelines, but even with a slightly delayed start to the HQ/RD project. Do you see how they can put up a building of the projected size in less than 3 years? 

Typically informative and excellent NEOtrans article.  Very unfortunate that the 12th Ave. condos will now be apartments, but when you think about necessary recovery time from the crisis, it’s probably a great strategic move.  Those will be very attractive apartments and the last thing we need is new condos sitting on a market where way too few can buy.  I’m thrilled to see SHW say they’re keeping a 2023 move in date, but that does seem extraordinarily fast. 

Does everyone anticipate it taking 2 years to complete the HQ?

4 hours ago, Stang10 said:

 

 

Ken, I'm not expert in building timelines, but even with a slightly delayed start to the HQ/RD project. Do you see how they can put up a building of the projected size in less than 3 years? 

 

Has SHW actually said they going to delay the start of the project? If the start work in early 2021 (with some site prep and utility work done this year) and employees start moving into some or all of the new buildings in late 2023, I would think that's probably doable. I still think there's going to be phasing with the new HQ.

It only took 13 months to build the Empire State Building. Which considering the improvements in technology and construction techniques since 1930, this timeframe is well within reason.

53 minutes ago, Growth Mindset said:

It only took 13 months to build the Empire State Building. Which considering the improvements in technology and construction techniques since 1930, this timeframe is well within reason.

 

But there's also more safety measures in place today. 

 

Not sure if this is a parallel, but groundbreaking for The Lumen was April 5, 2018 and they started working soon thereafter. Construction isn't due to be completed until late-summer. Per my article from early May, floors 1-15 will be available for move-ins starting on June 29, floors 16-20 on Aug. 3, and floors 21-34 opening Aug. 17.

 

So if work starts on the SHW HQ in Q1 2021, I could see at least some portions ready for move-in before the end of 2023 if not completed by then. 

^ How time flies. It seems like just yesterday that we were discussing the Lumen webcam instalation and delays in pouring the foundation. 

 

That was two years ago.

I would think though an office tower can be constructed faster than a residential one.. 318 kitchens, balconies, different finishes.

15 minutes ago, Sapper Daddy said:

I would think though an office tower can be constructed faster than a residential one.. 318 kitchens, balconies, different finishes.

 

Especially a modern office building with open floors.

On 4/10/2020 at 12:53 PM, KJP said:

 

Especially a modern office building with open floors.

 

Speaking of the design and it being a modern building with open floors. I can tell you, there aren't that many people excited about a open layout/design for the building. Everyone I talked to is 100% against the open design style. Nobody wants to be doing their work and being able to see other people working out of the corner of your eyes the entire day. Also, when you talk on the phone, at least cubicles offer some sort of privacy/noise reducing qualities to them, with nothing around you, you're going to be picking up everyone's conversation around and people will be listening in more than every. Obviously my sample size is very small when talking to people, but I think people are more excited about functional elevators rather than open floor plans.

I think what was meant by open floors is that it's an open floor plate free of obstacles and things that would drive up complexities. It's much simpler to design if you had an open floor plate and can throw up simple, repeatable walls/doors for offices, and planned restrooms and kitchens, versus having to plan out for varying configurations for residences with varying plumbing and HVAC requirements.

 

But I would agree with your sentiments otherwise. Open floor plans in offices suck.

Edited April 14, 20205 yr by seicer

4 hours ago, Stang10 said:

 

Speaking of the design and it being a modern building with open floors. I can tell you, there aren't that many people excited about a open layout/design for the building. Everyone I talked to is 100% against the open design style. Nobody wants to be doing their work and being able to see other people working out of the corner of your eyes the entire day. Also, when you talk on the phone, at least cubicles offer some sort of privacy/noise reducing qualities to them, with nothing around you, you're going to be picking up everyone's conversation around and people will be listening in more than every. Obviously my sample size is very small when talking to people, but I think people are more excited about functional elevators rather than open floor plans.

 

 

yep -- my spouse's company just moved into a new building where they were going to do that, you know like where the floor is wide open and where you come in and sit anywhere you want to, etc. etc., modern office style, but ... then they backed out of it at the last minute. 

 

unfortunately, a lot was already set up in the original open style, so like half the office space still sucks for those reasons. people talk loud and dont take it into conference rooms like they should.

 

it might work fine for some businesses, but not 100% open. a mix of office spaces and styles is best. and yeah good elevator service is key for sure.

I would hope SHW will be surveying their HQ employees to find out what kind of layout/design they would like to see.

14 minutes ago, skiwest said:

I would hope SHW will be surveying their HQ employees to find out what kind of layout/design they would like to see.

 

 

Obviously I can state it as fact, but as far as I'm aware, there has been no survey sent out, in mass, to current HQ employees about the style of office they would prefer. Obviously you can't make everyone happy, but from everyone I've spoke to, I haven't had one positive reactive to an open floor plan, like you'd see out west in some of the tech hubs. Also, I'm 100% against floor plans with conference rooms that are in the center of a floor with glass walls. 

 

MONDAY, APRIL 27, 2020

Sherwin-Williams HQ can get state aid by reviving the past

 

Some of Cleveland's most ornate architecture succumbed to the almighty car in a large plot of land called the Superblock. The Superblock is located in downtown's Warehouse District which, aside from the narrow river- and lakeside dock areas, was Cleveland's first central business district starting in the early-1800s.

But as Victorian-era architecture was frowned upon in the Modernist era after World War II and streetcars gave way to buses and cars, buildings in the Warehouse District and especially in the Superblock began to fall.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2020/04/sherwin-williams-hq-can-get-state-aid.html

Edited April 27, 20205 yr by KJP

Interesting stuff @KJP Now if we could just convince Sherwin Williams that this is a good idea... that photo of the Blackstone Building makes me physically ill. It’s bad enough to raze a beautiful building for a hideous building- which Cleveland also did it’s fair share of- but to tear something down for no reason other than a parking lot.... what a waste 

1 minute ago, mrclifton88 said:

Interesting stuff @KJP Now if we could just convince Sherwin Williams that this is a good idea... that photo of the Blackstone Building makes me physically ill. It’s bad enough to raze a beautiful building for a hideous building- which Cleveland also did it’s fair share of- but to tear something down for no reason other than a parking lot.... what a waste 

 

There are quite a few Sherwin-Williams employees who follow my blog, so we'll see if it goes anywhere.

Thanks to KJP for the great blog and some much needed news to whet our appetites on SW.  A lot of positives in that article, mostly the idea of some outside-the-box thinking that could really honor Cleveland's history in the "superblock" area rather than "just" a shiny new complex. (I love shiny and new, but the challenge of building a 21st century HQ and incorporating architectural inspiration from the past is extremely interesting.)  I have to admit that PPG Place in Pittsburgh did come to mind - though I know some on this forum really dislike that complex.  One of my questions  - would SW's main tower have to incorporate any historic design considerations due to its location - or are we just talking about the area that might be the parking structure, based on initial massing?  Speaking of that, there's definitely irony that we'll replace Cleveland's largest parking crater with  its largest parking structure. How that is executed will be critical.  I hope  there's a way to  design that structure so that it has an interesting street level presence because it will apparently dominate the whole block.  And if it's by paying homage to the past and garnering state aid in the process, it sure seems, at first brush (sorry) to be a great idea.  Another bit of enticing news - the idea that the tower may exceed 30 stories.  Even a modest adjustment up - say to 33 stories at 17 feet a floor - which seems completely possible - would yield a 560 foot tower - and become the city's new 4th tallest building.  And I've got to think that it will fit into the Cleveland skyline much more nicely than Stark's Jenga tower would have, by far.  Can't wait to see the initial renderings and I hope it's they're not far away.   

This sounds ideal to me. I don’t see a need for the tower to have any of the attributes of the superblock structure. Also i like that they aren’t limiting the tower to a certain height. Anything above 500ft sounds great. 

Edited April 28, 20205 yr by audidave

6 hours ago, KJP said:

 

MONDAY, APRIL 27, 2020

Sherwin-Williams HQ can get state aid by reviving the past

 

Some of Cleveland's most ornate architecture succumbed to the almighty car in a large plot of land called the Superblock. The Superblock is located in downtown's Warehouse District which, aside from the narrow river- and lakeside dock areas, was Cleveland's first central business district starting in the early-1800s.

But as Victorian-era architecture was frowned upon in the Modernist era after World War II and streetcars gave way to buses and cars, buildings in the Warehouse District and especially in the Superblock began to fall.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2020/04/sherwin-williams-hq-can-get-state-aid.html

The idea of wrapping the parking structure to match some of the older buildings that were originally there is a good one.

"I have to admit that PPG Place in Pittsburgh did come to mind - though I know some on this forum really dislike that complex."

 

I doubt that SW, for several reasons, would want to imitate the gothic PPG Place monstrosity  in Pittsburgh; even if it does pay a nod to Cleveland's past.

Edited April 28, 20205 yr by Frmr CLEder

I'm skeptical- historical recreations can be great when executed well, but I don't have faith that what we actually get would look anything like what we're hoping we'd get.

11 minutes ago, X said:

I'm skeptical- historical recreations can be great when executed well, but I don't have faith that what we actually get would look anything like what we're hoping we'd get.

It would definitely be a case of do it right, or don't do it at all. And everything would have to be approved and followed through-which means it is not likely to happen unfortunately since doing it right means making it more expensive, usually.*

 

*Unless tax payer money/incentives etc. are used. Given what we are going through right now...I am not so sure about that.

this is nothing newsy, sorry -- just another possible example of a modern/similar massing for sw hq tower.

 

i saw a newly proposed spec office tower designed by shop of around 500' for a long empty lot on varick/canal st downtown in manhattan.

 

it will have a school at the base, so not really otherwise comparable, but it does have a nice terra cotta glazing mullions, which could be good for sw hq. 

 

https://newyorkyimby.com/2020/05/renderings-revealed-for-shop-architects-designed-skyscraper-at-2-hudson-square-in-lower-manhattan.html

I would hope that SW is a bit more dramatic or iconic with a new PS address. Anything too simple will seem out of place in the midst of the Tower City Center, May Company Residences, Key Tower/Society for Savings Bldg., Old Stone Church, PS North and 200 PS.

Edited May 8, 20205 yr by Frmr CLEder

Does anyone know if an architect was chosen by Sherwin Williams? 

1 hour ago, dave2017 said:

Does anyone know if an architect was chosen by Sherwin Williams? 

Their last press release in response to the SARS-CoV-2 pandemic:

 

"The Company has not yet named a design architect and no design renderings are available. The project timetable remains unchanged. Any transition to the new facilities is not expected to occur until 2023 at the earliest. We will communicate any substantial project updates to you when we have them.”

 

 

SATURDAY, MAY 9, 2020

Sherwin-Williams HQ may be city's fourth-tallest tower

 

Sherwin-Williams' (SHW) proposed headquarters tower on Cleveland's Public Square may be a little taller than previously reported. In fact, it could end up being the city's fourth-tallest skyscraper. It's still unlikely to be a supertall approaching 1,000 feet or even Terminal Tower's height, however.

According to two sources, they told NEOtrans that SHW's new HQ on the west side of Public Square will rival 200 Public Square on the opposite side of downtown Cleveland's central commons. That tower is 45 stories and 658 feet tall. It is Cleveland's third-tallest building.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2020/05/sherwin-williams-hq-may-be-citys-fourth.html

Edited May 9, 20205 yr by KJP

17 minutes ago, KJP said:

'

 

SATURDAY, MAY 9, 2020

Sherwin-Williams HQ may be city's fourth-tallest tower

 

Sherwin-Williams' (SHW) proposed headquarters tower on Cleveland's Public Square may be a little taller than previously reported. In fact, it could end up being the city's fourth-tallest skyscraper. It's still unlikely to be a supertall approaching 1,000 feet or even Terminal Tower's height, however.

According to two sources, they told NEOtrans that SHW's new HQ on the west side of Public Square will rival 200 Public Square on the opposite side of downtown Cleveland's central commons. That tower is 45 stories and 658 feet tall. It is Cleveland's third-tallest building.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2020/05/sherwin-williams-hq-may-be-citys-fourth.html

Yes from what I've heard it will be about 40 stories and the other tower at West 3rd & Superior will be about 20+ stories.  And wth a large parking garage occupying part of the remaining lots which will also allow additional office towers to be built above them in the future if necessary.

Edited May 9, 20205 yr by Larry1962
More details

Here's to soon referring to the "big 4" instead of just the "big 3"!

...and to our socially-distanced gathering on the Jacobs-Weston lots this Summer to celebrate the occasion!

We don’t get news like this everyday - let the imagining of the new skyline begin...

This makes me really happy. I think  a building of that height would be wonderful and actually create a more balanced feel than a supertall would. And in any event, if it’s a similar height to 200 PS, I would bet it will feel taller, since it can’t be set back too far from the square like 200 PS is.

 

Also, I would be so surprised if the need for office space goes down significantly in the medium term because of work from home. The ability for most office employees to work from home has existed for 10 years or more. Even if the culture changes somewhat, I just have trouble envisioning a future where most people aren’t going to the office at least a couple times a week.

West side gets ALL the views... I swear. The skyline view from the Main Avenue Bridge is the best IMO.  It’ll be even better when this gets built! And yes, I’m from the East and yes, I’m hatin’.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 9, 20205 yr by Oldmanladyluck

18 minutes ago, Oldmanladyluck said:

West side gets ALL the views... I swear. The skyline view from the Main Avenue Bridge is the best IMO.  It’ll be even better when this gets built! And yes, I’m from the East and yes, I’m hatin’.

 

https://i.giphy.com/media/huWdEHSk7wOpW/giphy.gif

 

 

 

 

 

To me, its from the South, (which may still be included in the west side. I'm speaking specifically to the I-490 Bridge or coming up I-77 just before the 490 exit.

 

Allows you to see every tall building and shows how broad the Cleveland skyline really is.

We'll see if that outdated rendering of Eerieview's additional floors ever happens, then we'll talk.

Edited May 9, 20205 yr by tastybunns

Best view of the city by far (IMO) is from the Woodhill area.  When I was stationed on that side of town I loved the skyline views at night.  I think SW will make that view look impressive.

 

BTW, when I took the photos of the equipment above, I also took a new photo for the lead image in today's blog posting. I thought that all three Public Square towers should be in the first photo.

1 hour ago, KJP said:

 

 

 

Edited May 10, 20205 yr by Sapper Daddy

Still a little excited from today’s NEOTrans article, I guess - and apologies for some height-minded speculation today.. But if this tower does require 40 stories ( the lower end of KJP’s latest  information ) at a conservative floor height of 15’ - the roofline is at 600’.  The roofline of Ohio’s 3rd tallest building, Great American Tower in the Queen City, is actually only 500- it reaches 665’ because of its Peacock-ish “Tiara”.  So I’m thinking Cleveland could retake the claim of having all three of the states’ tallest,  if there’s a spire involved. Even if SW’s Tower winds up at or a bit  below 600’, it will still make a huge impact and really balance out the skyline beautifully. 

Edited May 10, 20205 yr by CleveFan

If the Queen City can have a tiara atop one of its skyscrapers, SHW can have a giant paint can atop its!

....or at least a stainless steel globe/can sculpture in front of the building, facing PS.

18 minutes ago, Frmr CLEder said:

....or at least a stainless steel globe/can sculpture in front of the building, facing PS.

All I'm saying, is it's as easy as creating one that looks like it's pouring out paint above a water feature , but the paint is water that's overflowing the can and there are multicolor LEDs shining up into the water pouring out that gives the effect of colorful paint. ? 

Ok, now you people are just getting silly!?

any word on if the parking structure will be lined with retail/restaurants to tie into the warehouse district?

1 hour ago, G00pie said:

any word on if the parking structure will be lined with retail/restaurants to tie into the warehouse district?

 

We probably won't know until SHW hires an architect to design the exterior. Although SHW may have some design/land use visions for the site. I don't know what its visions are except generally...that SHW wants an enticing, collaborative urban headquarters that can be a draw to help recruit talent. What that actually means, we shall see.