July 2, 20204 yr I think we’re in for a big surprise ? this is going to be an awesome development to watch.
July 2, 20204 yr 6 hours ago, John D. Baumgardner said: With so much happening in recent month's, I know that many of us have had our thoughts elsewhere ... However, I must wonder and ask if anyone has become hip to any solid information on the actual look and scale of Sherwin-Williams forthcoming corporate headquarters tower. It's been several months, so I thought perhaps someone on the forum may have heard a sliver or two from somewhere. I'm still cautiously optimistic that the company will build something unique and even transformative in spite of their conservatism. @KJP, any tidbits to share? We were all so good over the last month and a half, not speculating - - but everybody was wondering what you were,@John D. Baumgardner - thanks for breaking the ice!! Gotta love @KJP’s answer - looks like even on the conservative side, we’re getting something close to 200 Public Square - and I won’t be sad if it eclipses Terminal Tower- though I don’t expect that. I’m with those hoping for something with a crown/spire of some kind - it would complement the big 3 perfectly and create a more aspirational, vertical presence.
July 3, 20204 yr Author 5 hours ago, jmicha said: That also doesn't take into account any architectural crowns which I'm holding out hope it'll have. Surrounding Public Square with towers which mostly have crowns/spires that reach upwards is a good look I hope this continues. 200 Euclid is obviously flatter, but the stepping back at the top achieves a visual crown that doesn't necessarily add height but looks good as well for a PoMo tower. Good point about possible rooftop architectural features. BTW, it's 200 Public Square. 5 hours ago, mrclifton88 said: When you say we shall soon see... is that like... later this afternoon...? Next week? Next month? ?? We are goin crazy here! Before the leaves change colors (not counting any droughts, locusts, etc).... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 3, 20204 yr While I agree we have done a great job of not speculating too much, given @KJP's breakdown of the numbers I just thought I would entertain some possibilities on why I think we will get a 700-800 ft building from SW. Given the floor area numbers of the buildings I have looked at (non-residential), I think we can get something around 700 ft for sure (SW-willing of course). Also this is a good exercise to see what a flat versus spire roof would look like in the skyline. I guess you can debate on what roof type you like better or what would work well for Cleveland lol. If there's anything to get out of this slightly unthorough exercise , it is that a 700 ft building no matter the shape will look massive in the skyline given similar examples from around the country (although this is something we probably already know). And all of these options at least would lend the second tallest building moniker. (I'll preface this by saying 609 Main at Texas is my favorite, and I think something of similar shape could look cool in the skyline, PLUS it is 1.1 million sqft which is really close to SW's projected floor area). The official renderings can't come soon enough! Hopefully they have an architect by now - if not that's very disappointing, but somewhat understandable I guess. I'm antsy to get my hands on some real material ?. Enjoy! 300 North LaSalle - Chicago Height: 785 ft Floor Count: 60 Floor Area: 1.3 Million Sqft Mixed Use, mainly Office "Flat" 609 Main at Texas - Houston Height: 755 ft Floor Count: 48 Floor Area: 1.1 Million Sqft Mixed Use "Slanted" BNY Mellon Center - Philadelphia Height: 792 ft Floor Count: 54 Floor Area: 1.7 Million Sqft Office "Crowned/Spired"
July 3, 20204 yr Author Nice job @Geowizical! "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 3, 20204 yr 50 minutes ago, Geowizical said: While I agree we have done a great job of not speculating too much, given @KJP's breakdown of the numbers I just thought I would entertain some possibilities on why I think we will get a 700-800 ft building from SW. Given the floor area numbers of the buildings I have looked at (non-residential), I think we can get something around 700 ft for sure (SW-willing of course). Also this is a good exercise to see what a flat versus spire roof would look like in the skyline. I guess you can debate on what roof type you like better or what would work well for Cleveland lol. If there's anything to get out of this slightly unthorough exercise , it is that a 700 ft building no matter the shape will look massive in the skyline given similar examples from around the country (although this is something we probably already know). And all of these options at least would lend the second tallest building moniker. (I'll preface this by saying 609 Main at Texas is my favorite, and I think something of similar shape could look cool in the skyline, PLUS it is 1.1 million sqft which is really close to SW's projected floor area). The official renderings can't come soon enough! Hopefully they have an architect by now - if not that's very disappointing, but somewhat understandable I guess. I'm antsy to get my hands on some real material ?. Enjoy! 300 North LaSalle - Chicago Height: 785 ft Floor Count: 60 Floor Area: 1.3 Million Sqft Mixed Use, mainly Office "Flat" 609 Main at Texas - Houston Height: 755 ft Floor Count: 48 Floor Area: 1.1 Million Sqft Mixed Use "Slanted" BNY Mellon Center - Philadelphia Height: 792 ft Floor Count: 54 Floor Area: 1.7 Million Sqft Office "Crowned/Spired" So glad to have you back in the fold! We've missed visualizing your massings.
July 3, 20204 yr @Geowizicals massings are among the most fun posts on UrbanOhio - great to see a range of possibilities come to life in his sketches. The SF number we're hearing for SW is close to 1 million square feet - but doesn't that apply to the whole project and couldn't that shrink the HQ significantly? Of course, I'd love something on the scale of any of the three examples above. I really like the synergy and dimensions of BNY Mellon Center the best, that version seems to somehow create a cooperative synergy with the other tall towers around Puc Square. It also reminds me of the "double take" effect between the new One Vanderbilt and the Empire State Building in NY. I also like the slightly narrower dimensions of the 3rd version best. 609 Main Texas actually "begins" to dominate the skyline with its bulk. Oh well, my two cents. We could be in store for a very crane-crowded sky between SW, City Club, (dare I say it? - Nucleus), the Viaduct residential tower and the midtown hotel project - Wow. Edited July 3, 20204 yr by CleveFan Mistake corrected
July 3, 20204 yr Author SHW's HQ will be 1 million square feet. The R&D center will be 500,000 SF. The parking is not counted in either facility's SF needs. And I remain convinced that the HQ's square footage needs is a first phase. I firmly believe there will be more structures added sometime in the near future to the Superblock. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 3, 20204 yr 1 hour ago, Frmr CLEder said: So glad to have you back in the fold! We've missed visualizing your massings. Happy to share my orange skyscrapers with you all! I will also take requests ? 20 minutes ago, CleveFan said: @urbanetics_renderings are among the most fun posts on UrbanOhio - great to see a range of possibilities come to life in his sketches. @Geowizical ? ? If so then thank you kindly! Also I agree on BNY, although something striking like 609 would be welcome if it were slimmed down a bit imo. Edited July 3, 20204 yr by Geowizical
July 3, 20204 yr 300 N, while not as dramatic as the other two, is my favorite of the three. Edited July 3, 20204 yr by Frmr CLEder
July 3, 20204 yr 1 hour ago, Geowizical said: Happy to share my orange skyscrapers with you all! I will also take requests ? I’m a big fan of the newer twisting towers. How would 1m square feet of that look? When is the last time I-71 turned a profit?
July 3, 20204 yr 3 hours ago, Geowizical said: Happy to share my orange skyscrapers with you all! I will also take requests ? @Geowizical ? ? If so then thank you kindly! Also I agree on BNY, although something striking like 609 would be welcome if it were slimmed down a bit imo. Sorry, Geo - corrected that. I like @Urbanetics, too!
July 3, 20204 yr 14 minutes ago, CleveFan said: Sorry, Geo - corrected that. I like @Urbanetics, too! No worries, no worries! ? 2 hours ago, Boomerang_Brian said: I’m a big fan of the newer twisting towers. How would 1m square feet of that look? By request, here's 710 ft of pure twist! ? Twist Concept - Cleveland Height: 710 ft Floors: ~45-50 Floor Area: ~890,000 sqft *NOTE: In order to reach the desired 1,000,000 sqft and give some architectural space on the top, this building would have to be about/at least 800 ft tall, or be wider* **See Evolution Tower, Moscow (807 ft) for comparison and even more twist** ***Forgive the jarring horizontal lines haha*** Edited July 3, 20204 yr by Geowizical
July 3, 20204 yr 5 hours ago, Geowizical said: Happy to share my orange skyscrapers with you all! I will also take requests ? Just for fun, what would a 700' bldg that had the same proportions of a 1 gallon can of paint look like. It'd be very wide and probably be over 3M SF. what would that look like?
July 3, 20204 yr ^ @Geowizical - oh my, that's great, thank you! That's quite a monster of a building!
July 4, 20204 yr ^ ha thats really good! longaberger’s doppleganger lol. geo it would be funny to see something like makkah royal clock tower complex in mecca placed placed across the site, if it would even fit? mostly because it would make for dueling tower city type complexes, but also because the clock tower building itself almost 2k’ tall. or maybe just pick any top rung supertall, just to see what it would look like there.
July 4, 20204 yr 6 hours ago, mrnyc said: it would be funny to see something like makkah royal clock tower complex in mecca placed placed across the site, if it would even fit? mostly because it would make for dueling tower city type complexes, but also because the clock tower building itself almost 2k’ tall. or maybe just pick any top rung supertall, just to see what it would look like there. Megatall Series?! ***But before I begin, thoughts on starting a thread where I can just take requests for random massings and post them there instead of filling up the threads where we should technically be having discussions/posting news? While I want to keep doing these and want you guys to be able to see them, they also kind of stray away from the main topic... I don't know if I have the ability to create it, but to those who do/want, maybe call it "Cleveland: Hypothetical Massings" or something like that? Maybe this page already exists? Edited July 4, 20204 yr by Geowizical
July 4, 20204 yr Author A new thread in the Discussions section sounds like a good idea -- something like, Cleveland: Random Massings. Could even throw in there some legit massings from the past that never went anywhere, like that 1959 Mall-A hotel I posted a few days ago. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 17, 20204 yr There is fencing up on the parking lot across the street from the Rockefeller building with a green non-see through mesh. Anyone know what is going on?
July 17, 20204 yr Every time this board comes to the top, my heart leaps. It can't be long now before we see something of their plans. Can it?
July 17, 20204 yr According to the signs posted, it’s just temporary for “paving and repairs.” Ugh. Sorry to disappoint! Edited July 17, 20204 yr by urbanetics_
July 17, 20204 yr Author Not saying construction is starting, but is there a better time to start construction on the parking deck than right now? SHW and downtown Cleveland were handed an amazing opportunity in the form of a global pandemic to develop the parking garage on the Superblock with minimal impact on downtown businesses and restaurants. Take advantage of it. BTW: I'm curious why there's no building permit for this improvement. Is it considered simple maintenance? Edited July 19, 20204 yr by KJP "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 20, 20204 yr Not to be a conspiracy theorist, but there’s this.. retweeted by Michelle Jarboe. Does anyone recall the last time these lots were repaved? Did it require 3 weeks, fencing and a backhoe?
July 20, 20204 yr On 7/17/2020 at 3:43 PM, KJP said: Not saying construction is starting, but is there a better time to start construction on the parking deck than right now? SHW and downtown Cleveland were handed an amazing opportunity in the form of a global pandemic to develop the parking garage on the Superblock with minimal impact on downtown businesses and restaurants. Take advantage of it. BTW: I'm curious why there's no building permit for this improvement. Is it considered simple maintenance? Very true. And the same can be said for nuCLEus. With very few events at Rocket Mortgage and Progressive Field for the next year, now would be the time to move some dirt.
July 20, 20204 yr I was wondering why they need to put up a fence if they are just paving a lot. Edited July 20, 20204 yr by skiwest
July 20, 20204 yr Author I would be pleasantly surprised if the first phase of SHW's HQ is more than just a tower on the Jacob's lot and a big parking garage on the NW corner of Superior and West 3rd. If that's the case, then there is no reason not to pave this lot if it's going to continue to be used as a parking for another 5-10 years. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 20, 20204 yr 3 hours ago, KJP said: If that's the case, then there is no reason not to pave this lot if it's going to continue to be used as a parking for another 5-10 years. I was under the impression from the information in this thread that most, if not all, of the phases of the SW HQ would be built out in 5 years.
July 20, 20204 yr Maybe they’re repaving so the thousands of construction workers have a nice lot for their F150s? ?♂️?♀️ clevelandskyscrapers.com Cleveland Skyscrapers on Instagram
July 20, 20204 yr Author 5 hours ago, jeremyck01 said: I was under the impression from the information in this thread that most, if not all, of the phases of the SW HQ would be built out in 5 years. That may have been the plan Pre-COVID. 39 minutes ago, MayDay said: Maybe they’re repaving so the thousands of construction workers have a nice lot for their F150s? ?♂️?♀️ All the more reason why they should've started work on the parking deck ASAP. Might've been able to get that done by the time steel started rising for the tower, unless there's another building planned atop the parking deck too. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 20, 20204 yr FWIW I was working on huge, sprawling chemical facility for Shell in Pittsburgh, the first permanent structure completed....parking deck. There is a logic to it
July 21, 20204 yr wouldn't they have to have at least basic plans for the whole campus they are satsified with to build any one thing? that is, i would think we would get some renders, even if only massings, before anything gets started. i suppose they could build a parking garage in a corner and worry about integrating all the rest later though.
July 23, 20204 yr I walked through the area today and they were digging a massive hole in the northern area of the fenced off area... I am talking 20x20 and 15ish feet down... never seen repave do that.. any thoughts
July 23, 20204 yr 35 minutes ago, G00pie said: I walked through the area today and they were digging a massive hole in the northern area of the fenced off area... I am talking 20x20 and 15ish feet down... never seen repave do that.. any thoughts Haven't you ever played roller coaster tycoon? Sheesh
July 23, 20204 yr 56 minutes ago, G00pie said: I walked through the area today and they were digging a massive hole in the northern area of the fenced off area... I am talking 20x20 and 15ish feet down... never seen repave do that.. any thoughts I would think it’s a parking Deck
July 23, 20204 yr 1 hour ago, G00pie said: I walked through the area today and they were digging a massive hole in the northern area of the fenced off area... I am talking 20x20 and 15ish feet down... never seen repave do that.. any thoughts Next time you are walking by jump the fence, get closer, and take pictures. Then I'm sure there will be some on the site able to confirm what is going on ?
July 23, 20204 yr The fact that there are curtains up around the site is reminiscent of the beginnings of construction.
July 23, 20204 yr Author But there's no building permit filed for the property and no plan was ever submitted to the city for anything here. Although the last thing that stood here was a parking deck with a retail space on Superior.... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 23, 20204 yr Man, what a power move would it be if they just started construction with no permit and got the permit partway through though. Not saying that makes any rational sense, but I’d dig it!!
July 23, 20204 yr 25 minutes ago, KJP said: But there's no building permit filed for the property and no plan was ever submitted to the city for anything here. Although the last thing that stood here was a parking deck with a retail space on Superior.... Maybe it's one of those floating drive ins that are popping up all over the country ?
July 23, 20204 yr I've heard that a large part of the Weston parking lot along Superior Avenue will be used as a staging area to support the construction of the SHW Tower on the Jacobs parking lot beginning in the 1st quarter of 2021. And they are hoping that the city will allow a small portion of West 3rd Street to be closed down during construction.
July 23, 20204 yr 1 hour ago, cle_guy90 said: Next time you are walking by jump the fence, get closer, and take pictures. Then I'm sure there will be some on the site able to confirm what is going on ? Didn’t jump the fence but hopefully these will still suffice.? FWIW, I do see utility lines/pipes exposed and dug up. Perhaps that’s what this big hole is for? Regardless, it’s cool to see some of the bricks from former buildings AND I highly doubt this lot will be back open again by the 25th, as the signs posted say.? Edited July 23, 20204 yr by urbanetics_
July 24, 20204 yr ^^ It looks like the drain lines connecting the various parking lot drains to the main city sewers.
July 26, 20204 yr Author SUNDAY, JULY 26, 2020 Sherwin-Williams HQ could offer two large buildings In the absence of renderings or other official news from Sherwin-Williams (SHW), Greater Clevelanders anxiously await the next little tidbit about their planned new downtown headquarters and suburban research facilities. That little tidbit arrived in the past week, albeit not in a verbal or written form. Instead, it came from crews digging in a part of the downtown HQ site on the northeast corner of West 6th Street and West Superior Avenue. But the work wasn't for construction -- at least not yet. MORE: https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2020/07/sherwin-williams-hq-could-offer-two.html Edited July 26, 20204 yr by KJP "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 27, 20204 yr just an example here for some possible context for a mixed use secondary building for this sw hq campus — — there is a very nice looking 23 story/240k sq ft office space bldg in tucson that was built in 1986 that is in the process of converting 8 floors into 150 hotel rooms. it has underground parking. it looks pretty substantial in and of itself: http://onesouthchurch.com/home.axis
July 27, 20204 yr 1 hour ago, mrnyc said: just an example here for some possible context for a mixed use secondary building for this sw hq campus — — there is a very nice looking 23 story/240k sq ft office space bldg in tucson that was built in 1986 that is in the process of converting 8 floors into 150 hotel rooms. it has underground parking. it looks pretty substantial in and of itself: http://onesouthchurch.com/home.axis It is kind of sad that this 23 story building is the most prominent one in an urban area of about 1 million people. Something like that would be nice as a mixed use secondary structure though. Nice but something that would take a backseat to the main structure and let it shine.
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