45 minutes ago, KJP said:

Not sure if this means anything since Dodge Reports will often post price tags for projects that are way off (usually too low), but their listing for the HQ project is $1,400,000,000 and the R&D center is $25,000,000 - $49,999,999. FWIW....

Thats interesting because SHW said that they would spend at least $600 million combined for both the new HQ and the new R&D center.  And with the proposed one million sq. ft. for the HQ and 500,000 sq. ft. for the R&D center that implies roughly $ 400 million for HQ and $ 200 million for the R&D center.   Of course in some ways it's cheaper to build in the suburbs than Downtown and so the original numbers could be more like $ 500 million for HQ and $ 100 million for the R&D.

 

VERY INTERESTING to see want it's going to REALLY COST...

Edited September 16, 20204 yr by Larry1962
Typos

1 hour ago, Ineffable_Matt said:

$1.4 billion? I didn't know they were putting the Burj Khalifa up on Public Square.

You laugh, but that's about the construction cost of the Comcast Technology Center in Philadelphia, which is "only" 1.5 million square feet.

So we have $600M as the stated minimum, and $1.4B as an upper estimate. "At least" means it will be over $600M, not that only $600M will be spent on them. That leaves alot of possibility for not only a trophy skyscraper, but a tall one too. To me, that number tells me the insider estimates of a 45-55 story tower, as KJP has reported, is a good bet.

16 minutes ago, LlamaLawyer said:

You laugh, but that's about the construction cost of the Comcast Technology Center in Philadelphia, which is "only" 1.5 million square feet.

 

Yes, and that building is 60 floors and 1,121 feet tall.... so it is possible to join the 1k club ? 

 

I do admit, it is partially my pride wanting a 1k building, but not it alone.  The other reasons are below:

 

1-It would be pretty cool to watch a 1k building being built.

2-How often do you have a chance to get a 1k building built in your city? There's a lot more chances to get 500ft buildings down the road than to get a 1k building.

 

I would be just as happy to get a 700ft on the Jacobs lot and a 500ft on the Weston lots.  That would be equally as amazing as a 1k building.

 

However, with that being said, I'm just pumped that CLE kept SHW... and will be getting a substantial tower(s) as well. 

I don't know how tall the building will be, but it's reassuring that SHW concluded they will still need 1 million sq ft post-pandemic.  They are willing to bet $600+ million that not much will change, which is great news for downtown real estate..

1 hour ago, LlamaLawyer said:

You laugh, but that's about the construction cost of the Comcast Technology Center in Philadelphia, which is "only" 1.5 million square feet.

I believe you. I just find it interesting that their estimate is triple what SW themselves have said they were spending.

I can't find it, but there was a breakdown of expected costs earlier this year for both the HQ and R&D center. The "at least" $600 million was total expense for both projects. The R&D center was around $250, leaving the rest for the HQ. So that $1.6 billion has to be a typo unless it's for additional phases or projects not directly related to the HQ, like a parking garage or hotel or whatever mixed use that could go on the site. The more likely scenario is that it's supposed to be $160 million.

On 5/14/2020 at 11:22 AM, Mendo said:

 

Some interesting information there. And like the Llama said, the numbers are confusing. Maybe the R&D facility has a ton of requirements that make it obscenely expensive.

 

PROJECTS    Estimated Cost
Owner's Equity Investment    $628,500,000
Port Authority Bonds     $50,000,000
State, County, City Grants    TBD
State Forgivable Loan    TBD
TOTAL PROJECT    $678,500,000
    
HEADQUARTERS PROJECT    Estimated Cost
Sitework    $8,100,000
Land Cost    TBD
Infrastructure Upgrades    TBD
Building Construction    $272,000,000
Parking    $28,000,000
TOTAL REAL PROPERTY    $308,100,000
Furniture & Fixtures    $26,600,000
Information Technology     $22,000,000
TOTAL PERSONAL PROPERTY     $48,600,000
TOTAL HEADQUARTERS PROJECT    $356,700,000
    
R&D CENTER PROJECT    Estimated Cost
Sitework    $7,100,000
Land Cost    TBD
Infrastructure Upgrades    TBD
Building Construction    $276,900,000
Parking    $10,000,000
TOTAL REAL PROPERTY    $294,000,000
Lab Machinery & Equipment    $11,900,000
Furniture & Fixtures    $5,400,000
Information Technology    $10,500,000
TOTAL PERSONAL PROPERTY    $27,800,000
TOTAL R&D CENTER PROJECT    $321,800,000
 

  

 

Here are the conceptual facility construction cost numbers from last May

12 minutes ago, KJP said:

Here are the conceptual facility construction cost numbers from last May

 

That was it, thanks.

Am I correct to assume the project cost is more like $750m because it doesn't include the $40m grant from JobsOhio and smaller grants from the county & city? Maybe they're only including SHW's cost for the project?

On 9/15/2020 at 4:37 PM, MayDay said:

For reference, here's their Denver project:

This looks like a good comparison. about 700,000 square feet in the building and about 300 million for it and I believe the parking garage as well. This a bit taller with the additional square footage seems like it could be close to 400 million, and it is also comparable because it was built within the last five years. This is 40 floors so add ten or 15 more and a bit more of a taper and there you go-landmark skyscraper.

 

The design(to me)also looks unambiguously modern.

Edited September 16, 20204 yr by Toddguy

if Key Tower were built today, it would easily be a 1 billion dollar project and probably so would the BP Building based off of the size of those buildings. 

 

But, just to make speculation even more rampant, in 2011 Ohio's third tallest building at 655' was built in Cincinnati for about $350 million.

 

Cleveland does have the poor soil issue however, that takes up the cost of buildings taller than about 400', hence all the 400 footers along East 9th.

Regarding our soil / bedrock issue ^ how many downtown towers were actually built with caissons vs. pad foundations (aside from the big 3) ? By all speculations it seems this tower would have to go that route. 

33 minutes ago, mrclifton88 said:

Regarding our soil / bedrock issue ^ how many downtown towers were actually built with caissons vs. pad foundations (aside from the big 3) ? By all speculations it seems this tower would have to go that route. 

Outside the big 3 everything is on a pad I believe, with exception of Lumen. Not sure about Erieview or Ohio Bell/AT&T.

 

It was mentioned last fall that if this tower is over a certain height it would need caissons as well given soil conditions.

Does this pose a risk to Sherman-Williams changing their mind About staying here? 
 

“CLEVELAND, Ohio – In an open letter, three leaders of the Black community in Cleveland have demanded that public assistance granted to the Sherwin-Williams Co. for construction of its new headquarters and research center be rescinded.”

 

https://www.cleveland.com/business/2020/09/black-community-leaders-demand-cleveland-cuyahoga-county-and-ohio-rescind-development-aid-for-sherwin-williams-headquarters-research-center.html

10 minutes ago, PAZUZU said:

Does this pose a risk to Sherman-Williams changing their mind About staying here? 
 

“CLEVELAND, Ohio – In an open letter, three leaders of the Black community in Cleveland have demanded that public assistance granted to the Sherwin-Williams Co. for construction of its new headquarters and research center be rescinded.”

 

https://www.cleveland.com/business/2020/09/black-community-leaders-demand-cleveland-cuyahoga-county-and-ohio-rescind-development-aid-for-sherwin-williams-headquarters-research-center.html

No. It will not affect them at all.

Here we go again. This is one of the reason the region lags behind the rest of the country.

This is too important to the City.  They aren't going to let much stop this project.

5 minutes ago, skiwest said:

Here we go again. This is one of the reason the region lags behind the rest of the country.

calm down....  ?

Edited September 17, 20204 yr by lockdog

22 minutes ago, skiwest said:

Here we go again. This is one of the reason the region lags behind the rest of the country.

It is, but not because of what you're implying.

1 hour ago, PAZUZU said:

Does this pose a risk to Sherman-Williams changing their mind About staying here? 
 

“CLEVELAND, Ohio – In an open letter, three leaders of the Black community in Cleveland have demanded that public assistance granted to the Sherwin-Williams Co. for construction of its new headquarters and research center be rescinded.”

 

https://www.cleveland.com/business/2020/09/black-community-leaders-demand-cleveland-cuyahoga-county-and-ohio-rescind-development-aid-for-sherwin-williams-headquarters-research-center.html

It’s not going to, I still support the project, and I think it would be silly to rescind. However, isn’t it fair to ask why they couldn’t have a single black contractor in the project? Not one?!

57 minutes ago, inlovewithCLE said:

It’s not going to, I still support the project, and I think it would be silly to rescind. However, isn’t it fair to ask why they couldn’t have a single black contractor in the project? Not one?!

It’s a fair question to ask but if the “response” to a problem does more to hurt the community then help it - where’s the wisdom or common sense?  If you believe SW’s statement they’re making a commitment to minority members for this project and they claim to have outstanding numbers relating to diversity in their work force.  Yes, keep them honest - check on their process - absolutely. But to try and deal a critical blow to the plans for this project? That’s a political play - not a productive dialogue. 

Edited September 17, 20204 yr by CleveFan

23 minutes ago, CleveFan said:

It’s a fair question to ask but if the “response” to a problem does more to hurt the community then help it - where’s the wisdom or common sense?  If you believe SW’s statement they’re making a commitment to minority members for this project and they claim to have outstanding numbers relating to diversity in their work force.  Yes, keep them honest - check on their process - absolutely. But to try and deal a critical blow to the plans for this project? That’s a political play - not a productive dialogue. 

I agree 100%. The best thing for the community as a whole is jobs & investment, which SHW is providing plenty of with this announcement. This is PHENOMENAL news, let's not lose sight of that. 

2 hours ago, ArtDecoSquirrel said:

I agree 100%. The best thing for the community as a whole is jobs & investment, which SHW is providing plenty of with this announcement. This is PHENOMENAL news, let's not lose sight of that. 

Yes in the big picture the best thing for the community as a whole is jobs and investment, but if a significant segment of the community is locked out of that (the part of the community that’s as of now still half of this city), how do you expect people to feel?! It’s not good enough to just say “well they can get some jobs there”. All these people giving lip service because it’s vogue right now but still spending money the same way. That’s a problem. Black owned businesses still statistically hire more black people than businesses ran by others, so if you actually want to positively impact the black community in a direct way, DO BUSINESS WITH BLACK OWNED COMPANIES. Its not that complicated, and it shouldn’t be controversial to ask for that. And to be honest, it’s kinda shameful that SHW doesn’t have at least ONE black contractor as part of this project. Not a single one?! Come on. That’s disrespectful. Of course I understand the big picture and I understand the importance of having this project in SHW, but as a black man I can understand black people being frustrated with this company not even bothering to do business with a single black contractor, especially in this day and age when people are falling over themselves pretending to love black people. How much effort is it to have one black contractor? One?! Out of what, 13 companies that is a part of this or something like that? It’s shameful that there’s even a fight over that. They could’ve at least shown the effort to throw a bone to SOMEBODY. Especially when your city is 50 percent black. There’s no excuse for not doing that, and there’s nothing anybody says here that’ll make that ok to me. And again, I still want SHW to be here. I still want this project to move forward and succeed. But we really see who actually cares about improving things and who doesn’t when conversations like this come up. It’s not that much to ask for SHW to bring in at least one black contractor. Period. 

3 hours ago, CleveFan said:

It’s a fair question to ask but if the “response” to a problem does more to hurt the community then help it - where’s the wisdom or common sense?  If you believe SW’s statement they’re making a commitment to minority members for this project and they claim to have outstanding numbers relating to diversity in their work force.  Yes, keep them honest - check on their process - absolutely. But to try and deal a critical blow to the plans for this project? That’s a political play - not a productive dialogue. 

So in other words, if they hire a couple of black folks, we should just be happy with that? SHW left themselves vulnerable to this by not even bothering to have one black contractor as part of this project. That’s ridiculous. If they had‘ve shown the effort to bring ONE black contractor, this wouldn’t be a conversation. And since you say this is a “political play”, what does a productive dialogue about this look like to you? What would be the ideal outcome to you? Cause to me, hiring a couple of Black people (when anybody who cares and pays attention to this subject knows that the one of the biggest ways to positively impact the black community is to spend money with black owned companies, who still statistically hire more black people than other companies) isn’t enough. It shouldn’t be controversial to ask a project this big and a company this big to do business with ONE black contractor. And it’s disrespectful that there isn’t one there already. Yes I still want the project to go ahead, but let’s not pretend that it’s an outrageous ask for SHW to have ONE black contractor participate in this project 

9 hours ago, inlovewithCLE said:

It’s not going to, I still support the project, and I think it would be silly to rescind. However, isn’t it fair to ask why they couldn’t have a single black contractor in the project? Not one?!

Question: Has every sub-contractor for this project been determined & announced? The main players have, including Welty Gilbane, I get that; but there will literally be dozens of smaller sub’s underneath these Mgt co’s on a project of this size and being in construction myself I find it impossible to believe that all

of those parties have been lined up & published at this point. Or have they? Where is this info coming from?

17 minutes ago, CleCaneFan said:

Question: Has every sub-contractor for this project been determined & announced? The main players have, including Welty Gilbane, I get that; but there will literally be dozens of smaller sub’s underneath these Mgt co’s on a project of this size and being in construction myself I find it impossible to believe that all

of those parties have been lined up & published at this point. Or have they? Where is this info coming from?

They have not. The project has not been awarded to lower tier subs. The argument though is about the Management team that SW hand picked.

So, I've been lurking on this forum for a long time, but decided to finally sign up. I work in the construction industry and figured I could provide some insights here. At this stage in the game for a project this size, it's possible, but extremely unlikely that the actual contractors for the project have been decided on. In fact, there's a very good chance that the actual engineering team hasn't been decided yet either.

 

For most large projects the Architect and Construction Manager are put under contract first and then the engineering team is hired. From there, once the design documents are done the contractors are selected. Looking at the list that was published there's still no Site/Civil Engineer, no Mechanical, Electrical, Plumbing and Low-Voltage/Technology Engineer, no Structural Engineer and System Commissioning Engineer. There are still a lot of players yet to be determined despite the big showy public announcement.

12 hours ago, Mov2Ohio said:

Outside the big 3 everything is on a pad I believe, with exception of Lumen. Not sure about Erieview or Ohio Bell/AT&T.

 

It was mentioned last fall that if this tower is over a certain height it would need caissons as well given soil conditions.

Most of the downtown towers above 30 stories have caissons or a combination of caissons/may foundation. Hilton has caissons under the tower. 

46 minutes ago, Mov2Ohio said:

They have not. The project has not been awarded to lower tier subs. The argument though is about the Management team that SW hand picked.

Correct. It also hasn’t been awarded to prime subs yet, unless in a design assist capacity of some sort. All subs will be held to diversity goals for the project. That’s standard in the City of Cleveland and Cuyahoga County. The argument is about the main players - should/could Welty and Gilbane partner with a minority contractor as part of the construction management team? Sure. That’s typically done on these large projects so there’s an opportunity for teaching and growth. 

8 hours ago, inlovewithCLE said:

Yes in the big picture the best thing for the community as a whole is jobs and investment, but if a significant segment of the community is locked out of that (the part of the community that’s as of now still half of this city), how do you expect people to feel?! It’s not good enough to just say “well they can get some jobs there”. All these people giving lip service because it’s vogue right now but still spending money the same way. That’s a problem. Black owned businesses still statistically hire more black people than businesses ran by others, so if you actually want to positively impact the black community in a direct way, DO BUSINESS WITH BLACK OWNED COMPANIES. Its not that complicated, and it shouldn’t be controversial to ask for that. And to be honest, it’s kinda shameful that SHW doesn’t have at least ONE black contractor as part of this project. Not a single one?! Come on. That’s disrespectful. Of course I understand the big picture and I understand the importance of having this project in SHW, but as a black man I can understand black people being frustrated with this company not even bothering to do business with a single black contractor, especially in this day and age when people are falling over themselves pretending to love black people. How much effort is it to have one black contractor? One?! Out of what, 13 companies that is a part of this or something like that? It’s shameful that there’s even a fight over that. They could’ve at least shown the effort to throw a bone to SOMEBODY. Especially when your city is 50 percent black. There’s no excuse for not doing that, and there’s nothing anybody says here that’ll make that ok to me. And again, I still want SHW to be here. I still want this project to move forward and succeed. But we really see who actually cares about improving things and who doesn’t when conversations like this come up. It’s not that much to ask for SHW to bring in at least one black contractor. Period. 

You make a very logical point & you've honestly changed my mind on the subject, SHW should've honestly saw this coming. But to say I don't care about improving things, that's not fair & I won't take that one. 

15 minutes ago, ArtDecoSquirrel said:

You make a very logical point & you've honestly changed my mind on the subject, SHW should've honestly saw this coming. But to say I don't care about improving things, that's not fair & I won't take that one. 

That wasn’t an allegation to you directly/specifically. I don’t know you. What I meant by that was when it really comes down to it and the rubber meets the road and real equity has to be placed in this thing, we see who’s really about it and who isn’t. I don’t know if that’s you or not, but I think it’s totally fair to break down what the choice is so you have the option to let it be known whatever side you choose to be on

28 minutes ago, inlovewithCLE said:

That wasn’t an allegation to you directly/specifically. I don’t know you. What I meant by that was when it really comes down to it and the rubber meets the road and real equity has to be placed in this thing, we see who’s really about it and who isn’t. I don’t know if that’s you or not, but I think it’s totally fair to break down what the choice is so you have the option to let it be known whatever side you choose to be on

I understand, it's a non-issue from here on out. 

For a project of this scope, magnitude and significance, you certainly want world-class talent to produce a world-class product. I think those chosen will provide that level of expertise.

 

I'm not sure of the local minority-owned talent, but I have to assume that there are plenty of subcontractor opportunities available for a variety of local minority-owned businesses. 

 

This may have all simply been a warning dog whistle, similar to the issues with RMFH.

Edited September 17, 20204 yr by Frmr CLEder

13 hours ago, CleveFan said:

It’s a fair question to ask but if the “response” to a problem does more to hurt the community then help it - where’s the wisdom or common sense?  If you believe SW’s statement they’re making a commitment to minority members for this project and they claim to have outstanding numbers relating to diversity in their work force.  Yes, keep them honest - check on their process - absolutely. But to try and deal a critical blow to the plans for this project? That’s a political play - not a productive dialogue. 

Good old fashioned Cleveland race politics.

25 minutes ago, CLENYC said:

Good old fashioned Cleveland race politics.

Cause questioning why a project this large has no black contractors is “race politics”. Got it

Although I'm not a moderator, please hear me out....

 

I like posting here in this thread (and others) because I think this is a very important project. So when news or something worthy of discussion comes up, I like to be able to just post it rather than have to send a private message to a moderator to ask them to unlock it when they have free moment in their busy lives. I'd rather just post the news or discussion item at that moment rather than wait for a good reason to ask them to unlock it.

 

So please, don't give the mods a reason to re-lock this thread. Again. Thanks.

Edited September 17, 20204 yr by KJP

It’s ok to talk about our race issues, just not when actual money is involved. It wasn’t the right time with the arena, it’s not the right time now with SW, but I’m toooooooootally sure we’ll get to it somewhere down the line. 

6 hours ago, CLEeng said:

So, I've been lurking on this forum for a long time, but decided to finally sign up. I work in the construction industry and figured I could provide some insights here. At this stage in the game for a project this size, it's possible, but extremely unlikely that the actual contractors for the project have been decided on. In fact, there's a very good chance that the actual engineering team hasn't been decided yet either.

 

For most large projects the Architect and Construction Manager are put under contract first and then the engineering team is hired. From there, once the design documents are done the contractors are selected. Looking at the list that was published there's still no Site/Civil Engineer, no Mechanical, Electrical, Plumbing and Low-Voltage/Technology Engineer, no Structural Engineer and System Commissioning Engineer. There are still a lot of players yet to be determined despite the big showy public announcement.

Agree that no contractors have been selected yet as the project is many months if not a year away from bidding.

 

As for the engineering team, that's not entirely true all the time.  Usually when an Architect submits a proposal or responds to an RFQ, they already have their design team (engineers, third party estimators, etc) already on board or established behind the scenes.  The entire design team is not necessarily announced along with the architect.  It is possible the design team isn't established yet as you mention, but from my experience the team is usually already formed.

 

 

Edited September 17, 20204 yr by Firenze98

8 minutes ago, bumsquare said:

It’s ok to talk about our race issues, just not when actual money is involved. It wasn’t the right time with the arena, it’s not the right time now with SW, but I’m toooooooootally sure we’ll get to it somewhere down the line. 

As implied by @KJP, why don't you start a separate thread to talk about race issues and construction projects in the city so this one is not locked again (for what the third or fourth time)

I'm happy to educated here, but I'd guess there aren't many major black-owned business that are experienced with major skyscrapers. There will other roles (like civil, electrical, hvac enginnering etc that there are more black-owned firms) that will be needed as well, just not yet announced. I know for the Hough Library, CPL, hired a black-owned architecture firm, but what black firm has done giant projects?  I know Robert P Madison Intl is a black-owned firm, they've never been lead on a giant project like this as far as I know.  So, I'm open to learning---based on this list from SHW's press announcement, who are some major black-owned firms in the US for each of these categories (that people here would like to see given these roles for SHW)?

 

• Pickard Chilton Architects, Inc. – Design architect for the global headquarters

• HGA Architects and Engineers, LLC (HGA) – Base building architect 

• Vocon Partners, LLC – Interior architect  

• Welty Gilbane, a Joint Venture – Construction manager

• Mark G. Anderson Consultants, Inc. (MGAC) – Project manager, project controls and owner’s representative

• CBRE Inc. – Real estate and economic development advisor

• Vorys, Sater, Seymour and Pease LLP – Legal and economic development counsel

• Hanson Bridgett LLP – Legal counsel  - don't know much about these guys

• inSITE Advisory Group – Economic development advisor--I think this a WBE

 

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, inlovewithCLE said:

Cause questioning why a project this large has no black contractors is “race politics”. Got it

Actually if you follow..my response is to CleveFan stating this is politics. If it’s about no black contractors, it’s race politics.

 

further, it’s not just an objection by these local folks, it’s a request to pull approved aid from the entire project.  It’s beyond questioning, it’s an attempt to jeopardize the entire project. Big difference.

Edited September 17, 20204 yr by CLENYC

It’s like you guys want this thread locked. Do you just totally ignore some posts?

So, from what I understand, Pickard Chilton was hired recently. It's not like Welty Gilbane or Vocon which were hired almost a year ago but not announced until this week. Pickard Chilton wasn't hired a while ago and then kept secret during that time. They were JUST hired. So that firm hasn't done much work at all with this project yet. Vocon, which I reported on numerous times, was hired to do the interior work/programming. They have their space needs information pretty well understood. But how this global headquarters will fill out SHW's newly acquired downtown properties is not well understood at all. There is some understanding of how the former Jacobs Lot might fill out which is why there are sources saying this could be a 45-55 story tower. But how things will fill out the former Weston lots is still very much up in the air. In other words, we're months away from seeing any renderings.

 

BTW, I'm surprised to see that Korman, Jackson & Krantz LLP wasn't among the parties listed to help this project further. They were the law firm that helped SHW get this far with its new HQ+R&D.

Edited September 17, 20204 yr by KJP

31 minutes ago, Firenze98 said:

Agree that no contractors have been selected yet as the project is many months if not a year away from bidding.

 

As for the engineering team, that's not entirely true all the time.  Usually when an Architect submits a proposal or responds to an RFQ, they already have their design team (engineers, third party estimators, etc) already on board or established behind the scenes.  The entire design team is not necessarily announced along with the architect.  It is possible the design team isn't established yet as you mention, but from my experience the team is usually already formed.

 

 

Don't disagree at all. Sometimes you go in with a team, other times the Arch is already in place. In my career I've had it both ways, either meeting with an Arch and teaming for the bid or interviewing with an Arch after they've been selected. The fact the engineers weren't announced in the press release makes me think they haven't been selected yet though.

 

Edit: I could be entirely wrong and I'm admittedly just speculating. The larger point still stands though, the team is far from completely formed at this point in time so there's plenty of time to involve minority owned businesses.

Edited September 17, 20204 yr by CLEeng
More Context

53 minutes ago, KJP said:

Although I'm not a moderator, please hear me out....

 

I like posting here in this thread (and others) because I think this is a very important project. So when news or something worthy of discussion comes up, I like to be able to just post it rather than have to send a private message to a moderator to ask them to unlock it when they have free moment in their busy lives. I'd rather just post the news or discussion item at that moment rather than wait for a good reason to ask them to unlock it.

 

So please, don't give the mods a reason to re-lock this thread. Again. Thanks.

 

I get your point, but I think its valid to remain here in the SHW thread as the discussion is specific to contracts for the SHW thread. Its part of the construction of the project.  If a banking or parking matter arose about the building or project, we would not pull that out as a separate thread. I don't recommend that for this discussion item either.

6 minutes ago, Pugu said:

 

I get your point, but I think its valid to remain here in the SHW thread as the discussion is specific to contracts for the SHW thread. Its part of the construction of the project.  If a banking or parking matter arose about the building or project, we would not pull that out as a separate thread. I don't recommend that for this discussion item either.

You have a point but that is not the issue really.  Unfortunately people cannot control themselves and start getting pissy when discussing these tangential issues and often take offense when no offense was even meant an then they get pissy back and then the moderators get pissed and lock the thread, not because the discussion may not be relevant but because posters just cannot seem to moderate their comments for whatever reason.  You have been on this forum long enough to understand what I am getting at and surely have witnessed this happen time and time again.  Like @KJP mentioned, this thread has been locked a number of times because of this and we are left with no forum to discuss more relevant construction issues.  Again my suggestion is to start a new thread where perhaps the moderators might allow a little more latitude when it comes to possible biting posts.   Finally, while this topic might be somewhat related to construction it is my experience issues like this also tend to go off topic real fast and pretty soon we will be discussing the constitution and economic  theories which are surely not related to the SHW project.

23 minutes ago, CLEeng said:

Don't disagree at all. Sometimes you go in with a team, other times the Arch is already in place. In my career I've had it both ways, either meeting with an Arch and teaming for the bid or interviewing with an Arch after they've been selected. The fact the engineers weren't announced in the press release makes me think they haven't been selected yet though.

 

Edit: I could be entirely wrong and I'm admittedly just speculating. The larger point still stands though, the team is far from completely formed at this point in time so there's plenty of time to involve minority owned businesses.

 

Don't disagree with those statements either.

1 hour ago, KJP said:

BTW, I'm surprised to see that Korman, Jackson & Krantz LLP wasn't among the parties listed to help this project further. They were the law firm that helped SHW get this far with its new HQ+R&D.

 

It's a well known fact that lawyers are faceless, immemorable, and fungible in any event. SHW execs probably just got Kohrman Jackson confused with Vorys and called the wrong person to discuss the assignment.  ?

 

In all seriousness, their lawyer at Vorys just came over from the Ohio Development Services Agency, so I'm guessing the change has something to do with that...

 

See: https://www.vorys.com/newsevents-news-office-5.html