Htsguy l was being sarcastic. Of course the primary purpose of this site is to present new info on development as well as a forum for people to give their 2 cents. It's bjk who doesn't seem to understand that because while the rest of us were speculating on the potential design he stated our opinions don't matter because SHW will want a design that works for it and not us. Which is obviously true but not the point of the forum. 

43 minutes ago, cadmen said:

 It's bjk who doesn't seem to understand that because while the rest of us were speculating on the potential design he stated our opinions don't matter because SHW will want a design that works for it and not us. Which is obviously true but not the point of the forum. 

He didn’t say anything close to that. 

On 10/20/2020 at 8:09 PM, Clvlndr in LV said:

So I'm gonna continue just a bit off topic and reply to @MayDay that those numbers (888' roof which includes the crown and then add a 60' spire) are exactly the dimensions I remember when interning at the Cleveland Planning Commission back in 1988; and yes I was one of those skyscraper geeks. Not sure how it lost a foot but oh well. 

Back to the SWHQ it now seems we have insight that the tower will rise between 600' & 675'. Not exactly "rivaling Key Tower" as reported IMO, but "rivaling" is subjective. I'm still hoping for an 800 footer and no more but 600' .... come on now.

 

 

really it seems both like there is some confusion and also it depends on how you count it.

 

the tip: is the highest part, the very top of the spire, so for key 948’.

 

the architectural height/roof: top of the crown or 888’ here. the confusion is in this measure with how the roof is defined, sometimes it includes only mechanicals and casing, as with key, but sometimes it seems it also includes occupied areas.

 

the highest occupied floor: this what we aren’t sure of, but is 760’ or so on key. this is what cdm was referring to above. its a good example of how the focus on tall tower heights has changed over the years since key was built and described, because hof is a commonly noted measure these days. there was a big deal when central park nordstrom tower passed sears/willis whatever for that.

 

anyway, lets hope something of sw hq falls within these ranges, even if it just the tip of a spire. that would still be very impressive for height.

 

FRIDAY, NOVEMBER 6, 2020

More hints about the future Sherwin-Williams HQ+R&D

 

Every few days I sift through hundreds of newly filed Cleveland Building Department records to see if something new and interesting was posted. Invariably there's something worth nothing there, like the filing yesterday by Parma-based Gazde LLC for an "ice cream/coffee shop with axe-throwing" at 5807 Detroit Ave., next to the temporarily closed Happy Dog bar.

 

With knowledge that there are renderings out there for the new Sherwin-Williams headquarters, I saw a filing for "140 Public Square" and almost had a heart attack. That was before I remembered the new SHW HQ is probably going to have an address of somewhere between 1 and 33 Public Square.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2020/11/more-hints-about-future-sherwin.html

 

“A decorative element on the top”, has my juices flowing... 🤔 

Could it be... 👇🏼

 

Edited April 19, 20214 yr by Silent Matt

This Sherwin Headquarters will have a huge impact on that area. I’m extremely excited about this development. 

Hoping SW tower does, in fact, rival the height of Key Tower.

Maybe it's just me, but I feel like the "cover the earth" thing kinda comes off as not environmental at this point. I don't think they should play it up as they move forward into a new HQ. Maybe I'm overthinking it.

27 minutes ago, metrocity said:

Maybe it's just me, but I feel like the "cover the earth" thing kinda comes off as not environmental at this point. I don't think they should play it up as they move forward into a new HQ. Maybe I'm overthinking it.

You’re way overthinking it...

the new haven example in kjps article is pretty stunning, but the chicago and edmonton bldgs are just nice, boring beyond belief glass boxes. lets hope they up their game for this sw hq tower.

2 hours ago, CLENYC said:

You’re way overthinking it...

Maybe, but I could easily see it being used as a cover story on a national magazine about lead paint lawsuits (which are cropping up since CA's settlement) and the red changed to the color of lead. In this day and age you need to think about those things.

Edited November 8, 20204 yr by metrocity

Question:

The SW headquarters were already here. What I don't get is why no one cared about it until they decided to keep their headquarters here in Cleveland? Then all of a sudden, Cleveland gets tons of attention in the news along with new interested developers. Where were the developers before?? Can someone explain this to me? 

Edited November 8, 20204 yr by jbee1982
Misspelled words

57 minutes ago, jbee1982 said:

Question:

The SW headquarters were already here. What I don't get is why no one cared about it until they decided to keep their headquarters here in Cleveland? Then all of a sudden, Cleveland gets tons of attention in the news along with new interested developers. Where were the developers before?? Can someone explain this to me? 

Think about it. When a highly successful, long-standing Fortune 500 company chooses to stay in its hometown while being wooed by seemingly more glitzy cities like Atlanta, it sends a strong message to other potential investors that Cleveland is a good place to start, grow or relocate your business. Media will generally follow a story like that. Especially when many of them fully expected SHW would jump at the opportunity to move south. SHW, however, recognizes that it was born here, grew up here and became highly successful here. Further, the cost of doing business in Cleveland is considerably less than Atlanta.

As for the developers, they are simply responding to the anticipated need for additional office space, hotel rooms and live/work environments for SHW employees and companies doing business with SHW. That is why cities go to great lengths to attract companies like SHW. The ripple effect can be outstanding.

I’m curious as to how “involved” the city’s Design Commission will be once the HQ rendering is revealed and then submitted for review. Will it be a case of “depends on  the specific details of the design”  or will SW ‘s vision be pretty much green lighted whatever gets presented? I would expect that SW will come up with something beautiful and aspirational  particularly given the prominence and dramatic influence in the skyline that this HQ will have.  I hope that we will see something more striking and signature  than “just a tall glass box”.  Exciting to know that the rendering is probably already essentially ready to go. 

49 minutes ago, CleveFan said:

I’m curious as to how “involved” the city’s Design Commission will be once the HQ rendering is revealed and then submitted for review. Will it be a case of “depends on  the specific details of the design”  or will SW ‘s vision be pretty much green lighted whatever gets presented? I would expect that SW will come up with something beautiful and aspirational  particularly given the prominence and dramatic influence in the skyline that this HQ will have.  I hope that we will see something more striking and signature  than “just a tall glass box”.  Exciting to know that the rendering is probably already essentially ready to go

 

 

Cannot wait 

When we finally do get to see these renderings, I just may be inclined to finally remove my 😷 and go out for a celebratory drink.

😅

 

Of course, this would depend upon what these renderings actually look like. 🤦‍♂️🤔🤪

 

Like others here on the forum, I believe we should expect something that is striking in appearance and hopefully in scale.

5 hours ago, CleveFan said:

I’m curious as to how “involved” the city’s Design Commission will be once the HQ rendering is revealed and then submitted for review. Will it be a case of “depends on  the specific details of the design”  or will SW ‘s vision be pretty much green lighted

Given Pickard Chilton’s body of work it would really surprise me to hear a lot of input from the design commission.

^ I'm afraid I would have to disagree.

 

River Point in Chicago is an attractively designed glass tower. A similar spectacular design would be a stunning addition to Public Square and serve as a counter-balance to 200 PS.

Edited November 8, 20204 yr by Frmr CLEder

Folks, keep the posts on topic; thanks.

On 11/8/2020 at 12:34 AM, ArtMasterCLE said:

Think about it. When a highly successful, long-standing Fortune 500 company chooses to stay in its hometown while being wooed by seemingly more glitzy cities like Atlanta, it sends a strong message to other potential investors that Cleveland is a good place to start, grow or relocate your business. Media will generally follow a story like that. Especially when many of them fully expected SHW would jump at the opportunity to move south. SHW, however, recognizes that it was born here, grew up here and became highly successful here. Further, the cost of doing business in Cleveland is considerably less than Atlanta.

As for the developers, they are simply responding to the anticipated need for additional office space, hotel rooms and live/work environments for SHW employees and companies doing business with SHW. That is why cities go to great lengths to attract companies like SHW. The ripple effect can be outstanding.

To add to this @jbee1982, SHW recently acquired Valspar and that will also increase the SHW worker footprint. I know it was a discussion way back speculating about those workers in MSP, but judging by all other impressions of SHW the leaders don't really like having a divided/WFH-esque workforce so I'd imagine those folks will be moving east.

Edited November 9, 20204 yr by GISguy

On 11/7/2020 at 2:31 PM, Silent Matt said:

“A decorative element on the top”, has my juices flowing... 🤔 

Could it be... 👇🏼

 

Maybe something more like the GNB tower by the world renowned architecture collective Sven.

 

 

2 hours ago, GISguy said:

To add to this @jbee1982, SHW recently acquired Valspar and that will also increase the SHW worker footprint. I know it was a discussion way back speculating about those workers in MSP, but judging by all other impressions of SHW the leaders don't really like having a divided/WFH-esque workforce so I'd imagine those folks will be moving east.

 

I think this is something to keep an eye on. When we get the renderings and site plans for the SHW HQ, pay close attention to the space sizes and language describing those spaces reserved for future expansion. As we discussed in this thread a year ago, the consensus was that SHW will first work to build an HQ tower for its existing office workers who are already in downtown Cleveland plus some from Warrensville Heights. Then I suspect it will build an office structure or two to consolidate SHW workers from Hinckley Parkway and possibly from Valspar in Minneapolis. I am still confused why Hinckley Parkway workers are not part of this first phase. But I'm sure there's some internal organizational reasons for this. As was often told to me a year ago, this HQ is going to be the home for 5,000 workers someday. There's about 3,300 SHW HQ workers downtown now.

Edited November 9, 20204 yr by KJP

On 11/7/2020 at 10:57 PM, jbee1982 said:

Question:

The SW headquarters were already here. What I don't get is why no one cared about it until they decided to keep their headquarters here in Cleveland? Then all of a sudden, Cleveland gets tons of attention in the news along with new interested developers. Where were the developers before?? Can someone explain this to me? 

 

 

sure.

 

sw is a quiet, but prominent local company.

 

they recently have grown by buying up rival valspar. you might have heard about that a while back in the news?

 

so then they announce they need more room to consolidate and grow.

 

then they buy up land right downtown and plan their expansion.

 

the local news and forums like this go nuts over it.

 

now we have some fun in the interim with speculation until they officially announce something.

 

thats about where we are now.

On 11/9/2020 at 8:42 PM, mrnyc said:

 

 

sure.

 

sw is a quiet, but prominent local company.

 

they recently have grown by buying up rival valspar. you might have heard about that a while back in the news?

 

so then they announce they need more room to consolidate and grow.

 

then they buy up land right downtown and plan their expansion.

 

the local news and forums like this go nuts over it.

 

now we have some fun in the interim with speculation until they officially announce something.

 

thats about where we are now.

Next phase, UO nitpicking the design.

Phase after that? The city killing cool elements because they don't gel with the downtown "feel".

Rinse, repeat.

 

Throughout - dunking on that dude who was 100% certain HQ was moving to Atlanta

A friend just took this moody photo a few minutes ago flying into Cleveland from Chicago. See all those nasty, life-sucking parking lots west of Public Square? Bye-bye...

 

Where do you put odds at seeing renderings yet in 2020?

 

10 minutes ago, OldEnough said:

Where do you put odds at seeing renderings yet in 2020?

 

 

I don't make predictions. I'm a one-day-at-a-time guy. It would slightly surprise me, however.

13 minutes ago, OldEnough said:

Where do you put odds at seeing renderings yet in 2020?

 

Shucks. I was looking forward to a Christmas present.

28 minutes ago, KJP said:

A friend just took this moody photo a few minutes ago flying into Cleveland from Chicago. See all those nasty, life-sucking parking lots west of Public Square? Bye-bye...

3 hours ago, Dougal said:

Shucks. I was looking forward to a Christmas present.

 

Anything is possible. But I don't have any insights on a possible plan release date....

Could always be leaked early... 🤞

I would welcome that. And I would protect sources by publishing only screenshots of graphics sent to me. 😉

E&Y looking very lonely rn

When you look at SW current HQ compared to where it will be moving to in the photo, the difference is like night and day. The impact on the CBD will be enormous.

 

It's a dramatic difference!

Edited November 24, 20204 yr by Frmr CLEder

All financial metrics are stellar. We're ready for the big reveal...

 

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4392385-sherwin-williams-take-annualized-return-of-15-in-2021-and-beyond

I don't mean to stir the pot, but this recent post on PC's instagram has me intrigued (couldn't figure how to embed it unfortunately). Consider how both buildings are positioned, their heights, and location of each's setbacks along what would be Superior. I think it fits with KJP's sources' description as well, if you imagine Four World Trade Center. The post is about one of their associates leading a discussion on "Transportation Hubs and Mixed-Use Solutions as a Strategy for a Polycentric City", and this project IS next to Tower City station, could include a hotel, and in a city with a "second downtown". To get even more investigative... there is also a paint product made by an Ohio based company (Liquitex) in the shot...

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CIlrMYrs0Uf/

 

 

edit: wanted to mention, it doesn't match any existing work shown on their website, unless I've missed it

Edited December 11, 20204 yr by Pleco
added note

Interesting find. The taller building on the left is about 42-43 stories. The one on the right is about 30 floors, with seemingly shorter floor heights.

Interesting find! We'll see if these crews also drill at Superior and W. 6th.......

 

 

 

FRIDAY, DECEMBER 11, 2020

Sherwin-Williams drills toward HQ groundbreaking date

 

A high-ranking member of Sherwin-Williams' headquarters development team informed NEOtrans that the global coatings giant has set its desired date for groundbreaking for the end of 2021 or very early in 2022. The source spoke on the condition of anonymity as the source was not authorized to speak publicly about the project.

 

While that source was keeping NEOtrans apprised from their end, another reliable source reached out to report that a contractor, Ohio TestBor of Hinckley, had received verbal approval last week from Cleveland's Division of Water Pollution Control to discharge drilling water from exploratory wells into the city's sewers.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2020/12/sherwin-williams-drills-toward-hq.html

^ Late 2021 or early 2022 is later than I expected for a groundbreaking. I know they are still finishing up design work, but I thought the fact that they already had a design for a building before their acquisition of Valspar would have given them a head start. 
 

I'm sure people will mostly focus on the Jacob's lot building, but if that picture actually does reflect the SHW HQ, we could be looking at a second building comparable in size to the downtown Hilton.

 

45 stories times 17 ft./story* = 765 ft.; 22 stories times 17 ft./story = 374 ft.

 

That to me is the biggest potential news from this, since I don't think it has been clear whether SHW is looking at a second building at all for now.

 

Also if they're still in conceptual planning phases, I see that as a good thing. SHW's DTE ratio is trending down, so they're more likely to have increased willingness to finance a larger project the longer they wait.

 

 

* approximation based on Devon Energy Tower in OKC height per floor. The ratio includes Devon Energy Tower's significant crown, so it's probably a bit ambitious.

Based on Ken's article I am guessing we won't see a first public design reveal until March at the earliest and maybe not until May-June.  

2 hours ago, Htsguy said:

Based on Ken's article I am guessing we won't see a first public design reveal until March at the earliest and maybe not until May-June.  

 

I'd say that's a fair assessment. I just told somebody that, based on where SHW is now, they probably won't have designs publicly announced until the second quarter of 2021.

 

BTW, I ask my Downtown friends to please keep an eye on the drilling crews. If these guys move to drill in another spot, such as on the Superblock lots, that is a significant tell.

Agent 007 is on it!!

Hate to be a buzzkill in my first post after lurking in the forum for almost a decade, but the Pickard Chilton Instagram post sure seems like it's from a pre-COVID photoshoot.  Would they have been working on relevant SHW HQ details that long ago?    

 

I live on W. 6th, I will chime in if I see any interesting drilling locations.

24 minutes ago, mrkpt said:

Hate to be a buzzkill in my first post after lurking in the forum for almost a decade, but the Pickard Chilton Instagram post sure seems like it's from a pre-COVID photoshoot.  Would they have been working on relevant SHW HQ details that long ago?    

 

I live on W. 6th, I will chime in if I see any interesting drilling locations.

 

Dude, that's almost creepy to be staying in the shadows for that long! 😉 But welcome!!! 

 

It's possible however unlikely that they would have been working on anything SHW related before March 2020. But Pickard Chilton's people know a lot of people with Vocon who was already on the SHW job going back to 2019.

 

Thanks for the spy-job offer. Don't be a stranger!

 

 

I live across the street from Miami Worldcenter. Despite the inherent dust (and there's a lot of it), if the design of the SW HQ is anything like the Pickard Chilton-designed building going up in Miami Worldcenter, it is guaranteed to be impressive, inspirational and iconic; in very good company, such as 1000 Museum from the late Zaha Hadid. While they appear to be a favorite in Kuala Lumpur, Atlanta and Houston, an additional design in NEO is welcome. Take that PPG!

 

https://www.pickardchilton.com/work/one-worldcenter

Edited December 12, 20204 yr by Frmr CLEder

Let me calm down my Anxiety I thought something would be happening sooner. Going back to sleep 😴 

plz let the pc insta be a discussion placeholder and nothing close to the actual design. its two bland glass boxes.

1 hour ago, mrnyc said:

plz let the pc insta be a discussion placeholder and nothing close to the actual design. its two bland glass boxes.

 

Gawd my exact same thoughts! 😱🤦‍♂️😲

 

I looked at that shared image and literally shuddered.

😱

 

If those are mock-ups of what Sherwin-Williams plans on constructing, they appear to be abysmally BORING and less than ICONIC.

 

Thankfully, I am sure these models are probably not what the company has plans on building at Public Square.

A Public Square address demands something great- I would doubt that the images are what will be proposed in the end.