Well I'm all things CLE but...man, Miami is so beautiful. 

4 hours ago, Frmr CLEder said:

I live across the street from Miami Worldcenter. Despite the inherent dust (and there's a lot of it), if the design of the SW HQ is anything like the Pickard Chilton-designed building going up in Miami Worldcenter, it is guaranteed to be impressive, inspirational and iconic; in very good company, such as 1000 Museum from the late Zaha Hadid. While they appear to be a favorite in Kuala Lumpur, Atlanta and Houston, an additional design in NEO is welcome. Take that PPG!

 

https://www.pickardchilton.com/work/one-worldcenter

I've mentioned before that I really like a lot of towers that evoke structural expressionism (Norman Foster's HSBC building in Hong Kong, etc.). That Miami Worldcenter's cross bracing is along the lines of what I'm hoping for - provides visual reference to our iconic bridges without being trite.

2 hours ago, mrnyc said:

plz let the pc insta be a discussion placeholder and nothing close to the actual design. its two bland glass boxes.

 

Just a massing to express potential scale of buildings, not design. I don't know if that's SHW or anything else in Cleveland, but the scale including the possibility of a second, smaller building is intriguing.

On 12/12/2020 at 12:21 PM, cadmen said:

Well I'm all things CLE but...man, Miami is so beautiful. 

It is. I just discovered that it's ranked third behind NYC and Chicago of the US cities having the most skyscrapers. Then again, I think most waterfront cities are beautiful; NYC, Barcelona, San Francisco, Seattle, Chicago, San Diego, Sydney, Toronto, Hong Kong, Vancouver, Dubai, even Pittsburgh and my hometown too! There's something about the interaction of land, water and the man-made structures against the topography and refections on the water surfaces that make them intriguing. I think one of the best views of downtown Cleveland is up East 9th Street from North Coast Harbor.

 

SW HQ will dramatically change this image.

 

https://images.app.goo.gl/8epYw5EwKvogobNz7

 

 

Edited December 14, 20204 yr by Frmr CLEder

Yes, I agree. a lot of the newer buildings are visible from that location. SHW HQ and hopefully a couple other tallish towers will be added to that view in the near future. It would have been nice if I. M. Pei could have tweaked the design of the backside of the rock hall when it was moved to the harbor to improve the look from that vantage point.

8 minutes ago, skiwest said:

 It would have been nice if I. M. Pei could have tweaked the design of the backside of the rock hall

It may not be well known or acknowledged, but Cleveland has the enviable position of having two I.M. Pei inspired developments (Erieview and RRHF).

@KJP - what is your sense of the feasibilty of a Tower City rapid station entrance being built within the SW HQ footprint?  

On 12/13/2020 at 6:57 AM, Frmr CLEder said:

It is. I just discovered that it's ranked third behind NYC and Chicago of the US cities having the most skyscrapers. Then again, I think most waterfront cities are beautiful; NYC, Barcelona, San Francisco, Seattle, Chicago, San Diego, Sydney, Toronto, Hong Kong, Vancouver, Dubai, even Pittsburgh and my hometown too! There's something about the interaction of land, water and the man-made structures against the topography and refections on the water surfaces that make them intriguing. I think one of the best views of downtown Cleveland is up East 9th Street from North Coast Harbor.

 

SW HQ will dramatically change this image.

 

https://images.app.goo.gl/8epYw5EwKvogobNz7

 

 

 

I clicked on that link and on the next photo on the site it said, "CLEVELAND OHIO – THE NEXT DETROIT". But interestingly, it was not intended as a negative piece (as we see all too often--e.g., 'there's only one city in the US that is worse than Cleveland and that is Detroit') rather, the article was about CLE being a hot investment city for real estate. Never saw that spin before!   Here is the article:  https://globalinvestmentsincorporated.com/cleveland-ohio-next-detroit/

 

 

51 minutes ago, punch said:

@KJP - what is your sense of the feasibilty of a Tower City rapid station entrance being built within the SW HQ footprint?  

 

A cheaper option might be a pedestrian bridge. But since these are frowned upon, a tunnel under Superior Avenue might be possible. The feasibility of one would depend on the size of the sewers under Superior. The typical sewer pipe size below major downtown streets is about 8 feet in diameter, so any tunnel would have to go deep to get under the sewer conduits. But I suppose it's feasible, especially given the proximity of some of the old passageways in the old Cleveland Union Terminal. I did these diagrams about a decade ago to show how a pedestrian tunnel from a West Side Transit Center, then-proposed on the Superblock before Weston bought it, could be done.....

Thanks KJP for the floor-plan/map. 

...and "Duh," thank you Wikipedia!. How did I make it to this age without looking it up sooner. There have been times when  I actually wondered, but never followed up:

 

At the Cleveland Union Terminal, "The portion of the station above the interurban tracks was called the Traction Concourse and the portion above the intercity train tracks was called the Steam."

 

http://www.loc.gov/pictures/item/oh1517.photos.126378p/resource/

Edited December 14, 20204 yr by ExPatClevGuy

Thanks to @mack34 for the heads-up!

 

 

If they are drilling to bedrock again...we could be talking about a 350 foot building...

Perhaps, to be built in the same time frame or Perhaps gathering information for future vertical expansion on top of the garage...

Edited December 15, 20204 yr by Silent Matt

Either of those scenarios is certainly plausible.

https://www.cleveland.com/realestate-news/2020/12/cleveland-cavaliers-proposed-new-banner-on-sherwin-williams-hq-includes-message-of-diversity-inclusion.html

It's nice that they're making a mural that is inclusive of all kinds of people- black, white, lgbt, MGK.

Which makes me think. Would be great if we could offer enhanced incentives for challenging development parcels. Like this pit, and the one at Prospect and Superior. Like 30 year abatement on select parcels. Something to incentivize beautifying these ugly spaces.

I think my visit to Singapore ruined me. The attention to detail in that City State is something I’ve never seen. You don’t need the big ticket, silver bullet project. Take care of what you have, and do it well. Give a sh*t. The City of Cleveland sucks at all of this. DCA does a wonderful job, but it shouldn’t even BE their job.  
 

End rant.

Edited December 16, 20204 yr by marty15

Talking with a construction source yesterday who thought that the drilling at the corner of West 6th and Superior is strongly suggestive of a big building being part of the first phase of the new headquarters. He didn't think they would bother drilling there now if they were building there later. Nor does he think that they would build a parking garage with the provision for a vertical addition later. That doesn't happen that often. The only time that it did was following one of the worst recessions in American history. In other words, he thinks they're going to build something vertical there at the outset. The question regarding height is, are these Enviroprobe crews drilling down to bedrock at the corner of Superior and West 6th like the Ohio TestBor crews are on the old Jacobs Lot?

So if if we are talking 2 larger buildings then the main PS building would be shorter.

1 hour ago, simplythis said:

So if if we are talking 2 larger buildings then the main PS building would be shorter.

 

But not shorter than 30 stories. Ohio TestBor is going down to bedrock on the old Jacobs lot. That means a 30-plus story building. What we don't know is how big the West 6th-Superior building will be because we don't yet know if the drilling crews there are going down to bedrock as well. If any of you reading this happens to be walking by them today, could you do me a favor and ask them?? 😎

1 hour ago, KJP said:

 

But not shorter than 30 stories. Ohio TestBor is going down to bedrock on the old Jacobs lot. That means a 30-plus story building. What we don't know is how big the West 6th-Superior building will be because we don't yet know if the drilling crews there are going down to bedrock as well. If any of you reading this happens to be walking by them today, could you do me a favor and ask them?? 😎

With interest rates down in that damp part of the basement and SHW's DTE ratio constantly improving, one would think the execution of this project will only get bigger.

19 hours ago, LlamaLawyer said:

With interest rates down in that damp part of the basement and SHW's DTE ratio constantly improving, one would think the execution of this project will only get bigger.

 

It might get bigger if they eventually bring in the 250-something workers from Hinckley Industrial Parkway and potentially a few hundred more from Valspar in Minneapolis. And then there's SHW's continuing growth rate, which is adding 5-15 percent more employees each year (excluding 2017 when its employment growth rate was 24 percent due to the Valspar acquisition) and 2018 when its growth rate was 1 percent (post-Valspar reorganization). Last year, SHW employment growth rate shot up nearly 15 percent.

 

Note SHW's original announcement about the HQ and R&D facilities, which it said will be designed with "room to accommodate significant future growth. Sherwin-Williams estimates it would add a minimum of 400 jobs at these facilities over time, an increase of 11 percent to the Company’s current local workforce."

 

SHW has been growing its workforce at 11 percent every year or two. The HQ is being designed to accommodate 3,500 employees, including room for 400 employees. I realize this is a conservative company, but that's some pretty conservative office space projections considering their employment growth rates.

1 hour ago, KJP said:

 

It might get bigger if they eventually bring in the 250-something workers from Hinckley Industrial Parkway and potentially a few hundred more from Valspar in Minneapolis. And then there's SHW's continuing growth rate, which is adding 5-15 percent more employees each year (excluding 2017 when its employment growth rate was 24 percent due to the Valspar acquisition) and 2018 when its growth rate was 1 percent (post-Valspar reorganization). Last year, SHW employment growth rate shot up nearly 15 percent.

 

Note SHW's original announcement about the HQ and R&D facilities, which it said will be designed with "room to accommodate significant future growth. Sherwin-Williams estimates it would add a minimum of 400 jobs at these facilities over time, an increase of 11 percent to the Company’s current local workforce."

 

SHW has been growing its workforce at 11 percent every year or two. The HQ is being designed to accommodate 3,500 employees, including room for 400 employees. I realize this is a conservative company, but that's some pretty conservative office space projections considering their employment growth rates.

So it sounds like they’ll run out of space pretty quickly. Let’s hope they wise up and make a taller building.

Leaving this here for future reference: Calling it now! A 60 story tower on Public Square with a 5 story bridge to a 30 story tower on the Weston lot ala NuCLEus 1.0! 🤣

Edited December 17, 20204 yr by MikeyB440

Just so I understand: is the main tower going on the lot circled in orange? And the potential second building where they were seen drilling going in the lot in purple?

Yes.

1 hour ago, MikeyB440 said:

Leaving this here for future reference: Calling it now! A 60 story tower on Public Square with a 5 story bridge to a 30 story tower on the Weston lot ala NuCLEus 1.0! 🤣

GREAT IDEA!

 

BUT it would require several zoning variances to be allowed to build over the public r.o.w.

 

And I did heard that they are considering building a 20 - 25 story tower on the former Weston lot at the corner of West 3rd Street and Superior Avenue after the main tower is built on the former Jacobs lot.  This way they can use that location for a staging yard for the main tower. 

 

And that their main parking garage will be built along West 6th Street with the required retail and office space built along the r.o.w. to conceal the garage.

Edited December 17, 20204 yr by Larry1962
Typos

Hopefully whatever is built along W 6th will blend in with the existing warehouse buildings.  

For some reason, when thinking about this development, my mind keeps going back to Sony Center at Potsdamer Platz in Berlin. Something like that setup, where several buildings support an interesting roofline over an outdoor courtyard would be incredible — both for SW employees as well as other downtown workers.

 

1 hour ago, skiwest said:

Hopefully whatever is built along W 6th will blend in with the existing warehouse buildings.  

If they’re adding a hotel to this development, I’d love to see it put on the corner of West 6th and St. Clair.

That's actually a very interesting idea.  I could see it centered around a pedestrian only Frankfort Ave., which could link through to Public Square.  And indoor/outdoor space like this could be a unique amenity for Downtown in winter.

it would be pretty cool to have something like potsdamer sony center there -- along with a louisville fourth street live if it is still in play for nucleus.

 

get helmut jahn on the blower!

 

 

 

 

5 hours ago, MikeyB440 said:

Leaving this here for future reference: Calling it now! A 60 story tower on Public Square with a 5 story bridge to a 30 story tower on the Weston lot ala NuCLEus 1.0! 🤣

 

No!  No unsightly street-pedestrian-removing catwalks over W. 3 or other streets!

 

2 hours ago, Paul in Cleveland said:

For some reason, when thinking about this development, my mind keeps going back to Sony Center at Potsdamer Platz in Berlin. Something like that setup, where several buildings support an interesting roofline over an outdoor courtyard would be incredible — both for SW employees as well as other downtown workers.

 

 

That reminds me of Mr. Burn's attempt to block out the sun. "Permanent night" so he could sell more electricity for lights.

So does this confirm they’re drilling down to bedrock on the other lot now?

It doesn't confirm it, but it does suggest it. I'm thinking of writing some personal thoughts about for a blog article, since hard news is going to be scarce over the next couple of weeks.

 

BUT -- I would love to hear from some geotech, engineering, construction experts out there. And if you work for Ohio TestBor -- so much the better!

4 hours ago, JB said:

That’s Truth @urbanetics_ There has been no more single critical “win” for Cleveland since ... well, pick your analogy- how about since the procurement of the Rock N Roll Hall of Fame or how about the construction of Key Tower?  For a city  still battling some very fundamental problems, but with a new generation of energetic and hopeful residents, Sherwin-Williams “decision” will be hugely impactful for decades to come. And whether it’s one tower or two - it’s going to be a great look and symbol for the fight in this hard working comeback city.  I can hardly wait to see this project rise. 

 

Don’t be late Santa

Oh boy!!!!!

 

Edited January 15, 20214 yr by marty15

🤦🏽‍♂️🤦🏽‍♂️🤦🏽‍♂️ I cannot take it

Sorry for the delay but Blogger was running so slow, that when I typed a word, it wouldn't show up for 10 seconds.....

 

 

WEDNESDAY, DECEMBER 23, 2020

Drilling points to 2 Sherwin-Williams skyscrapers

 

Geotechnical drilling crews returned in recent weeks to the parking lots west of Cleveland's Public Square to gather more data for the design of Sherwin-Williams' (SHW) new headquarters. In so doing, the biggest question was whether they would drill into more than just one lot. The answer could provide insight as to what HQ facilities SHW might build and where. And how tall.

 

Based on recent insights posted here at NEOtrans and added to several months later, there wasn't much surprise that drilling crews from Ohio TestBor of Hinckley were digging 3-inch wells down to bedrock to measure their depths below a parking lot previously owned by the Jacobs Group at the northwest edge of Public Square.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2020/12/drilling-points-to-2-sherwin-williams.html

Very insightful.  A hotel?  Maybe.  But, I have a very, very hard time imagining that a marquee American company would choose an extended stay hotel for their headquarters site.  

13 minutes ago, gruver said:

Very insightful.  A hotel?  Maybe.  But, I have a very, very hard time imagining that a marquee American company would choose an extended stay hotel for their headquarters site.  

 

They are aware of another development proposal to bring a five-star hotel to downtown Cleveland.....

 

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2020/10/chicago-developer-considers-downtown.html

 

It would be amazing if these three skyscrapers happen in such proximity to each other. With a TMUD tax credit, I suspect the Magellan project has a good chance of happening. 

54 minutes ago, gruver said:

Very insightful.  A hotel?  Maybe.  But, I have a very, very hard time imagining that a marquee American company would choose an extended stay hotel for their headquarters site.  

Maybe they can bring an Embassy Suites back downtown.

On 12/17/2020 at 9:45 AM, KJP said:

 

It might get bigger if they eventually bring in the 250-something workers from Hinckley Industrial Parkway and potentially a few hundred more from Valspar in Minneapolis. And then there's SHW's continuing growth rate, which is adding 5-15 percent more employees each year (excluding 2017 when its employment growth rate was 24 percent due to the Valspar acquisition) and 2018 when its growth rate was 1 percent (post-Valspar reorganization). Last year, SHW employment growth rate shot up nearly 15 percent.

 

Note SHW's original announcement about the HQ and R&D facilities, which it said will be designed with "room to accommodate significant future growth. Sherwin-Williams estimates it would add a minimum of 400 jobs at these facilities over time, an increase of 11 percent to the Company’s current local workforce."

 

SHW has been growing its workforce at 11 percent every year or two. The HQ is being designed to accommodate 3,500 employees, including room for 400 employees. I realize this is a conservative company, but that's some pretty conservative office space projections considering their employment growth rates.

How much of the above mentioned SHW employment growth is from new stores/retail staff? Those people wouldn’t figure into hq office space.

11 hours ago, KJP said:

 

It would be amazing if these three skyscrapers happen in such proximity to each other. With a TMUD tax credit, I suspect the Magellan project has a good chance of happening. 

Now there’s the mini bomb! That’s another NEOtrans article in one sentence! - If that happens and SW does build two towers concurrently - this will  be like Cleveland’s version of Hudson Yards!  Merry Christmas indeed fellow Forumers! 

Edited December 24, 20204 yr by CleveFan

Updated the article with some new graphics thanks to @Geowizical!