@KJP, Impressive renderings even if they are "unofficial!"

 

😜😉😅

Edited December 24, 20204 yr by John D. Baumgardner

Love the "unofficial" renderings. I especially like the idea of a flagship store along W6th. That would be a great compliment to the retail and restaurants already there. Would also help strengthen the area as a more balanced retail destination, and diversify the area away from clubs.

Addendum: a few more angles of the new unofficial renderings per KJP's newest article on SWHQ (I think he meant to @ me instead of urbanetics on the renderings, but it's all good!).

Any questions y'all have about the renderings, feel free to ask away. Anyways, hope you all enjoy - Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays!

 

 

Edit: UO is being weird with the file sizes, so click on the images to see the full, sharper versions.

Edited December 24, 20204 yr by Geowizical

There are two Ian's who contributed to the article. Sorry for confusing the two. It has been corrected.

4 hours ago, Geowizical said:

Addendum: a few more angles of the new unofficial renderings per KJP's newest article on SWHQ (I think he meant to @ me instead of urbanetics on the renderings, but it's all good!).

Any questions y'all have about the renderings, feel free to ask away. Anyways, hope you all enjoy - Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays!

 

 

Edit: UO is being weird with the file sizes, so click on the images to see the full, sharper versions.

 

These "unofficial" renderings portray a very tall skyscraper. Where do these unofficial renderings emanate from, @Geowizical?

 

Are these renderings pretty close in appearance to what we might expect to see rising on our city skyline?

 

Thanks for sharing. 👍💯👍

Pickard Chilton looking at Ian’s renderings like

 

2 hours ago, Sapper Daddy said:

Pickard Chilton looking at Ian’s renderings like

 

If only they'd hire me! (I'm a civil engineer though, not an architect, haha)

 

3 hours ago, John D. Baumgardner said:

 

These "unofficial" renderings portray a very tall skyscraper. Where do these unofficial renderings emanate from, @Geowizical?

 

Are these renderings pretty close in appearance to what we might expect to see rising on our city skyline?

 

Thanks for sharing. 👍💯👍

My pleasure!

 

1) The heights for all my renderings pretty much come from KJP's reportings/requests, so I think he's a better person to ask with regards to height speculation. I'll just echo his sentiments that two 300+ buildings (one probably 500+) are likely at this point in time.

2) As for the look of the skyscrapers and such, they pretty much emanate from my imagination and are inspired by the architect's (Pickard Chilton) previous high-rise work. But, like you mentioned, they are very "unofficial" and likely to differ significantly from the final result (although I'd be very surprised if what I presented looks even remotely close!).

 

I like to think that my concepts are at least realistic enough to be plausible and give us a sense of what kind of aesthetics/designs work well with the existing skyline. Lots of glass I know (of which I'm a fan haha), but I think we (and the City of Cleveland, hopefully) should expect a landmark building both bright and modern for the times, while feeling at home in the city - hopefully I've captured some of that essence in my work.

But when all is said and done, if what KJP reports comes to fruition, even if my renderings are ultimately off from a "decorative" standpoint I would expect to see something very similar in functionality at the very least, and that alone is very exciting - much more exciting than a city block-wide parking lot.

Edited December 25, 20204 yr by Geowizical

Hopefully, the tower(s) will have a light, bright exterior. There are enough dark, drab buildings downtown already.

I’m not sold on the unofficial rendering.  i feel that the smaller building is too squat if we’re talking 2 towers. It looks like a mid-rise if that. with the sizable block that it is on there is room for some creativity.  Then again we first started hearing that a favored feel for the HQ was what Goodyear developed.  So it could be that the taller building is too tall as well. 

 

Latest Sherwin-Williams rumor... This one doesn't make sense though. On Public Square will be a 25-story building, with a 20-story building at the corner of Superior and West 3rd. That doesn't make sense because why would they be drilling down to bedrock if they were only going to build that tall?

1 hour ago, KJP said:

Latest Sherwin-Williams rumor... This one doesn't make sense though. On Public Square will be a 25-story building, with a 20-story building at the corner of Superior and West 3rd. That doesn't make sense because why would they be drilling down to bedrock if they were only going to build that tall?

Hopefully just a rumor to throw you off @KJP...

 

However, wasn’t the CEO looking at the Goodyear campus as somewhat of a model since the company is “conservative”? Everyone is hoping for a tower- but I guess we’ll have to wait and see.
 

 

I'm not satisfied until we see the Burj Frank Jackson rising in the skies. 

 

lol seriously though, hopefully they're trying to throw you off their plans. I can't imagine them wanting something bland on PS but I guess as OMLL said above, we'll see.

 

 

No. Sorry, but that's not gonna work for me.

welp those stubby/bland boxes in the pickardchilton insta were a bit worrisome. 

 

they were poking around for bedrock on the actual sites though, so keep hope alive.

They’re probably still trying to root out the leakers, especially after the Scene article on Ken. Selectively feed some of em bs. See where it goes.

State board OKs $70 million in loans for Sherwin-Williams' planned HQ, R&D projects

https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate/state-board-oks-70-million-loans-sherwin-williams-planned-hq-rd-projects

Given the sheer volume of incentives from Brecksville, Cuyahoga County, State of Ohio and JobsOhio, the HQ should be a tall, magnificent jewel.

Edited January 5, 20214 yr by Frmr CLEder

Oh, Dear God, No! 😬

 

I recoiled after reading the rumours of a 25 and a separate 20-story "building" barely reaching the skies over Public Square.

I am very hopeful that this is merely a bad joke and that there's zero validity to such a disturbing missive.

 

Perhaps, @KJP will dig deeper and deeper to root out the REAL STORY concerning what could end up being either an iconic skyscraper or just a mediocre flop in the epicenter of our beloved metropolis.

 

I'm now reaching for my flask after my eyes fell upon this unsettling entry in the SAGA OF SHERWIN-WILLIAMS in Cleveland.

 

😔😱😬😲🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

It’s not ideal but id rather have them than not have them so it’s all good

8 hours ago, marty15 said:

They’re probably still trying to root out the leakers, especially after the Scene article on Ken. Selectively feed some of em bs. See where it goes.

I couldn’t agree more. It’s like when the Browns had that outrageous story of them contemplating Condoleeza Rice for General Manager. You feed a suspected leaker or leakers each a specific story, some absurd, some possible, and see which ones come out to the press. BOOM, then you know EXACTLY who is the leaker!

It's also possible they didn't like what saw from the soil analysis and the associated costs for a skyscraper. Have to wait and see. I think we're all hoping for something 600+ft.

4 hours ago, inlovewithCLE said:

It’s not ideal but id rather have them than not have them so it’s all good

 First off , an apology for my lack of brevity in this post. To @inlovewithCLE’s point - I think  it’s deeper than that. I’ve seen @KJP caution forum members on multiple occasions- “don’t get emotionally involved” in these projects” and I agree - I get it. .  And I realize that, at the end of the day, there are more fundamental serious issues to occupy our energy - such as  Cleveland’s status  as one of the most impoverished and violent cities  in the country.  And maybe- hopefully- this  latest rumor is a red herring as others have opined. But, why wouldn’t it be “all good” for me if the 25 story HQ rumor proves true?  It’s because I see (and I think many see) more than just 3 tall  towers on the other 3 sides of a revived Public Square. I see a city’s history, spirit  and aspiration there.  The 52 story Terminal Tower, tallest building in the world outside New York upon its completion, represented Cleveland as “the sixth city” - challenging its citizenry to meet the promise of a still young and wildly ambitious century.  The Terminal Tower helped Cleveland to officially make its claim as one of the great American cities of its time. Roughly 50 years later, though the city’s reputation had been tarnished,  a surprising new period of construction gave rise to a tower that could surpass the Terminal Tower - although some insisted the BP Building remain shorter than the Terminal Tower - it still represented a  city that intended to rise up - a city with lots of fight.  And when the 90’s commenced with the city’s new tallest - and the tallest between NY and Chicago - optimism and a sense of a Renaissance was in the air. But the last 30 years have taken their toll and despite downtowns growth, the  population of “sixth city” has dropped out of the top 50.  Point being -For me, the remaining side of the square must be as aspirational, perhaps even as “audacious” as the other big 3  were in their time in order to symbolize that Cleveland refuses status as a secondary market.  I want to once again see a skyscraper of a big league  city rising high, competing with the heights of past greatness for the nation to notice - in a new Roaring  20’s and for generations to come. I’ll be “ok” with the rest of the projects that I’m around to see that fall short of their grandest  expectations - whether it’s a “Nucleus” or whatever -down the road. But not with this project. This ones at the heart of our city - at our  most prestigious location. Yeah, it would  still be “nice” to have a couple significant buildings in the 20 to 25 story range where parking lots existed for many years. But for  me, an SW HQ  that doesn’t approach  the standards set by the Terminal Tower, 200 Public Square and Key Tower will be - in my heart of hearts - a disappointment.  That’s just my opinion - and It may not be shared by the majority - but I bet it’s one that a lot of true Cleveland fans will  understand. 

Edited January 5, 20214 yr by CleveFan

Even if that rumor is true, you could still be looking at something the size of 1111 Superior, which ain't bad

25 stories * 17 ft./story = 425 ft.

 

20 stories * 17 ft./story = 340 ft.

 

Even if that's true, we're talking about the two tallest office buildings built in the city in 30 years, which would be the 8th tallest and 19th tallest respectively after construction. Both would also be the tallest buildings ever to have stood in each respective location. And the one on the superlot would be the second tallest building ever west of W. 3, barely beating out E&Y.

 

So, I would (like all of us) still love to see an 800 footer and a 400 footer right next to each other. But my disappointment would be measured. And of course the jobs are what really matters. Gotta get the region's economy firing on all cylinders first and foremost. If they come, we will build it, not if we build it they will come.

I will be very disappointed if this is less than 50 stories.  I'm tired of the "something is better than nothing" mentality.   

20 hours ago, KJP said:

Latest Sherwin-Williams rumor... This one doesn't make sense though. On Public Square will be a 25-story building, with a 20-story building at the corner of Superior and West 3rd. That doesn't make sense because why would they be drilling down to bedrock if they were only going to build that tall?

Unless they didn't like what they found when they drilled.

From day one, I have always been more interested with the street interaction here than height. That is more critical here than anything because it is such a large dead zone. We desperately need connectivity in our downtown. We already beat out Cincy and Cbus in the skyline game (sorry other Ohioans) and most other mid-sized cities for that matter. But where we have always fallen short is our walkability outside of W9th/W6th and the Euclid corridor. The rest of our downtown is honestly pretty underwhelming in terms of walkability. Sherwin can be a big step in the right direction.

I'm much more excited about street-level density in that area than I am for height, though some added skyline density would be nice.

Article coming. There's legs to this rumor -- but, there were also legs to the rumors of a taller building.

21 minutes ago, KJP said:

Article coming. There's legs to this rumor -- but, there were also legs to the rumors of a taller building.

LEGS MEANING . . . CASSIONS?? 

 

9 hours ago, CleveFan said:

 First off , an apology for my lack of brevity in this post. To @inlovewithCLE’s point - I think  it’s deeper than that. I’ve seen @KJP caution forum members on multiple occasions- “don’t get emotionally involved” in these projects” and I agree - I get it. .  And I realize that, at the end of the day, there are more fundamental serious issues to occupy our energy - such as  Cleveland’s status  as one of the most impoverished and violent cities  in the country.  And maybe- hopefully- this  latest rumor is a red herring as others have opined. But, why wouldn’t it be “all good” for me if the 25 story HQ rumor proves true?  It’s because I see (and I think many see) more than just 3 tall  towers on the other 3 sides of a revived Public Square. I see a city’s history, spirit  and aspiration there.  The 52 story Terminal Tower, tallest building in the world outside New York upon its completion, represented Cleveland as “the sixth city” - challenging its citizenry to meet the promise of a still young and wildly ambitious century.  The Terminal Tower helped Cleveland to officially make its claim as one of the great American cities of its time. Roughly 50 years later, though the city’s reputation had been tarnished,  a surprising new period of construction gave rise to a tower that could surpass the Terminal Tower - although some insisted the BP Building remain shorter than the Terminal Tower - it still represented a  city that intended to rise up - a city with lots of fight.  And when the 90’s commenced with the city’s new tallest - and the tallest between NY and Chicago - optimism and a sense of a Renaissance was in the air. But the last 30 years have taken their toll and despite downtowns growth, the  population of “sixth city” has dropped out of the top 50.  Point being -For me, the remaining side of the square must be as aspirational, perhaps even as “audacious” as the other big 3  were in their time in order to symbolize that Cleveland refuses status as a secondary market.  I want to once again see a skyscraper of a big league  city rising high, competing with the heights of past greatness for the nation to notice - in a new Roaring  20’s and for generations to come. I’ll be “ok” with the rest of the projects that I’m around to see that fall short of their grandest  expectations - whether it’s a “Nucleus” or whatever -down the road. But not with this project. This ones at the heart of our city - at our  most prestigious location. Yeah, it would  still be “nice” to have a couple significant buildings in the 20 to 25 story range where parking lots existed for many years. But for  me, an SW HQ  that doesn’t approach  the standards set by the Terminal Tower, 200 Public Square and Key Tower will be - in my heart of hearts - a disappointment.  That’s just my opinion - and It may not be shared by the majority - but I bet it’s one that a lot of true Cleveland fans will  understand. 

I’m a true Cleveland fan and I want what’s in the best interest of the city. Period. And what’s in the best interest of the city is SHW being here, headquartered downtown. THAT was the big win. If they design the headquarters the way that I like, then fine. But the big win was keeping them here in the first place. That’s what I’m saying. Nothing can really disappoint me after they made their decision. I know allll the history about Cleveland that you laid out. But a billion dollar company committing to keep its home here, that ALONE is evidence of being a big league city

 

TUESDAY, JANUARY 5, 2021

SHW's new HQ may not feature an iconic skyscraper

 

Throughout the last two-plus years at the Sherwin-Williams (SHW) rumor mill, one of the favorite items of scuttlebutt has been the potential height of the new headquarters (HQ) building -- or buildings.

 

Rumors have pegged the height of SHW's tallest HQ structure ranging anywhere from 40 to as much as 55 stories. Depending on floorplates and floor heights, the base tower (having a Public Square address) was rumored to approach if not overtake the height of one or more of its Public Square neighbors. They are the 658-foot 200 Public Square, the 708-foot Terminal Tower and the 948-foot Key Tower.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2021/01/shws-new-hq-may-not-feature-iconic.html

 

For reference (thanks to @Garfield12323), 55 Public Square at left is 22 stories and 300 feet tall.....

 

 

I think Lumen has shown that a well-designed 34-story building is an impressive addition to the downtown.  If SW comes up with an iconic building for the Square and an equally handsome, if lesser building for the Weston lots, I think they will have done their job.  Their assumption of last summer that pre-Covid employees will all return to their offices may have changed.

 

However, if they're NOT doing ICONIC, they wasted their money on Pickard Chilton.

This is the best and last chance for the addition of a tall tower downtown. It will be unfortunate if it does not happen as it is unlikely there will be another construction project of this magnitude in the foreseeable future.  

7 minutes ago, skiwest said:

This is the best and last chance for the addition of a tall tower downtown. It will be unfortunate if it does not happen as it is unlikely there will be another construction project of this magnitude in the foreseeable future.  

 

The Justice Center courthouse is another whale. And it sounds like it might not be a skyscraper either. 

In my opinion, the Cleveland skyline is disproportionately tall as compared to its overall density.  And is unevenly weighted to the east.  I would welcome two moderate towers to the west of public square as it would provide a lot of balance.  Agree with the street level impact comments above as well - especially on the square.  Key Tower is a handsome building - and an imposing skyline presence - but it is not welcoming at street level.  

 

The work on the P-C site includes some beautiful architecture of mid-rise multi-building complexes including public spaces.  Something along these lines would be a dynamic addition to the downtown landscape.  Perhaps better than a sole tower that inspires people to stay at their desks 700 feet from the street. 

Updated the article with newer, more specific information.

@KJPI love you for putting my dad joke at the end of your article. Somewhat disappointing if the rumors are true, but only disappointing in comparison to other rumors. Still a huge win for the city. Thanks for great reporting as always.

while it may seem like two major office structures, be they large or small, is the direction sw is headed from what we can infer, with the parking garages variable, i would not be surprized if there are still quite a few more massing option variables for these buildings than we even know.

7 hours ago, Dougal said:

However, if they're NOT doing ICONIC, they wasted their money on Pickard Chilton.

Partially agree - PC has done nice work on some of their corporate campuses. That being said however, 20-25 stories is shorter than my Miami condo building, as well as Cleveland's Beacon and Lumen.

 

That would be a huge disappointment for such a high-profile location on PS; to have waited decades to eradicate those unsightly parking lots only to have them replaced by a short, stubby high-rise.

 

A tall building on PS, with associated buildings that step down to the WHD would be more appropriate and I'm sure welcomed by all current and former Clevelanders.

Edited January 6, 20214 yr by Frmr CLEder

The twin Proctor and Gamble HQ buildings in Cincinnati, lack loft but look classy to me.  Maybe something "campus-like" in that vein would work here? 

I would, however, like a tall building to "balance off" the square.

 

Edited January 5, 20214 yr by urb-a-saurus

1 hour ago, Frmr CLEder said:

Partially agree - PC has done nice work on some of their corporate campuses. That being said however, 20-25 stories is shorter than my Miami condo building, as well as Cleveland's Beacon and Lumen.

 

That would be a huge disappointment for such a high-profile location on PS. A tall building on PS, with associated buildings that step down to the WHD would be more appropriate.

 

In floors, yes. But probably not in building height. Office buildings have larger floor heights than residential buildings. As I noted in the updated article, the base SHW HQ tower will reportedly be 27 stories. At 16 feet per floor, that's 430 feet or comparable to the height of the Stokes Federal Courthouse Tower. But if we used the 19.5-foot average floor heights of the 22-story courthouse tower, the SHW base tower would be about 530 feet tall!

Height aside, I need a little help with the floor size speculation math:🙂

 

On 10/21/2020 at 9:43 AM, KJP said:

Redirected from the Random Visualizations thread.....

 xx

Not necessarily. SHW could keep 1 million square feet on the Jacobs lot and have it be a 560-foot tower or an 800-foot tower depending on average floorplate sizes and average floor heights. Consider.....

 

40 stories with 25,000-SF average floorplates and floor heights of:

14 feet -- 560 feet tall

15 feet -- 600 feet tall

16 feet -- 640 feet tall

 

45 stories with 22,222-SF average floorplates and floor heights of:

14 feet -- 630 feet tall

15 feet -- 675 feet tall

16 feet -- 720 feet tall

 

50 stories with 20,000-SF average floorplates and floor heights of:

14 feet -- 700 feet tall

15 feet -- 750 feet tall

16 feet -- 800 feet tall

The One Campus Martius building in Detroit is just over a million square feet in 16 floors and a whole city block, built in 2000 and just recently expanded. The expansion turned the building into a large box with a central atrium that doesn't let in a lot of natural light.

 

SW said they want to maximize natural light, and speculating 2 buildings at 25 and 20 floors, how big are these floor plates going to have to be to fit a million square feet? 

 

Does this new floor count information sound plausible? 

also, i wonder if they would add parking to bump it up, chicago style?

 

i had figured they would do that for other buildings, but not the main jacobs lot tower.

15 minutes ago, mrnyc said:

also, i wonder if they would add parking to bump it up, chicago style?

 

i had figured they would do that for other buildings, but not the main jacobs lot tower.

 

I started writing a lot of stuff, but I'm going to need to lay this out in a second article. 

^ 530 ft is the height of Erieview Tower.

1 hour ago, urb-a-saurus said:

The twin Proctor and Gamble HQ buildings in Cincinnati, lack loft but look classy to me.  Maybe something "campus-like" in that vein would work here? 

I would, however, like a tall building to "balance off" the square.

 

100% agree. I love P&Gs Cincinnati HQ.   Definitely classy and although it’s not tall the complex itself looks absolutely enormous in person. The pictures I found on the web doesn’t do it justice at all. I’m not sure this kind of building layout would work at the Sherwin site tho. 

Does the P and G "campus" interact with the surrounding neighborhood?  I always imagined it as a stand alone fortress downtown and the pics sort of bear that out.  I wouldn't want that for SHW, especially with it location on Public Square.